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Papi Back to the DL?


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23 replies to this topic

#1 mauidano


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Posted 26 August 2012 - 04:32 AM

http://www.boston.co..._may_be_re.html

Looking like Papi might just be done for the season. Can't imagine his heart or heel are in it. That being said, shut it down or have him work through it for another couple weeks? Might be time for Papi and the Sox to part ways too.

#2 Hyde Park Factor


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Posted 26 August 2012 - 05:13 AM

If not for the blockbuster with the Dodgers,the thinking may have been to try and get Papi healthy enough to contribute because I think that he was one of the few that could be depended upon to contribute. Since we've effectively waved the white flag on 2012, I say shut him down and look ahead to 2013.

#3 The Long Tater

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 11:38 AM

What evidence is there that his heart "isn't in it"? He is in a contract year and was performing well before the injury.

If Papi were younger and under long term team control, what HPF advocates would clearly be the smart move. But will he want to take the rest of the year off and leave doubts in the market as to his health?

#4 nvalvo


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Posted 26 August 2012 - 11:48 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if the parameters of an extension were to be worked out at this meeting. He likely doesn't want to shut it down if he'll be headed to FA. A few more HR could help his value.

That said, he is leading the AL in SLG.

edit: Gomez DHing today, with Loney at first.

Edited by nvalvo, 26 August 2012 - 12:42 PM.


#5 mauidano


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Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:27 PM

What evidence is there that his heart "isn't in it"? He is in a contract year and was performing well before the injury.

If Papi were younger and under long term team control, what HPF advocates would clearly be the smart move. But will he want to take the rest of the year off and leave doubts in the market as to his health?

The point being that the team has folded without him in the lineup. Nothing left to play for really except himself. If his injury gets worse, he's really only hurting himself. Would your "heart" be in it? He may not make the dollars he had hoped for next year because of this. It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

#6 86spike


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Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:38 PM

On Saturday the roster expands... no need to DL him or shut him down. If he wants to play, let him. If he says he can't, sit him.

#7 absintheofmalaise


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Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:58 PM

http://www.boston.co..._may_be_re.html

Looking like Papi might just be done for the season. Can't imagine his heart or heel are in it. That being said, shut it down or have him work through it for another couple weeks? Might be time for Papi and the Sox to part ways too.

Did he call you up and tell you that his heart wasn't into playing anymore this season? Unless the answer to that is yes don't post crap like that please.

Why do you think it's time for them to part ways? In the press conference yesterday, Cherington indicated that the team would very much like for Ortiz to be a part of the team next year. Ortiz has said much the same thing. And it's not like there's a huge market for him out there.

Obviously the Sox no longer have the same production at 1B now that AG has been traded. That's certainly an area of need. Now, if they also let Ortiz leave who do you think they should replace him and his production with? Yes, he's overpaid compared to a lot of other DHs out there, but you also need to know that value is not linear.

Using the numbers from Fangraphs, Last year Ortiz had a wRAA of 429 and a wOBA of .405 in 146 games. This year he's had a wRAA of 33.1 and wOBA of .422 in 90 games. Using batting, positional and replacement he was worth around 4 more wins last year than a replacement level player and 2 more wins than an average player. This year he's been worth about 3 more wins than a replacement player and 1 more win than an average player. Now I don't expect him to keep that kind of production up at his age, but I do think he'll still be a very good hitter. I wanted the Sox to sign him to a 2 year deal last year. I still think they should. Ideally, it would be a 1 year deal with an option with the total at around $24 million.

You can replace the production from one very good player by spreading it around a couple of positions. It's a lot more difficult to replace the production of two very good players like that.

#8 mabrowndog


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Posted 26 August 2012 - 02:04 PM

On Saturday the roster expands... no need to DL him or shut him down.


No. They have 5 games to play before then. Even though they've punted on the season, you can't put the team in position to run short of players in the event of injuries/extra innings. You DL him and add another body.

If he wants to play, let him. If he says he can't, sit him.


No again. Injured players can be their own worst enemy. Their competitive fire and/or desire to enhance their market value can spur them to take unreasonable risks and hurt themselves further. Yes, he's going to be a free agent, but he's still under contract to the team and highly likely to be re-signed, regardless of his frustrations over wanting a multi-year deal (which he'll probably get from the Sox.)

Letting Ortiz be the one to make that call would be unwise.

#9 86spike


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Posted 26 August 2012 - 05:17 PM

This season is over. It has been since late July. If the Sox want to keep Ortiz beyond this year,mwhat's the harm in humoring him for the next week?

#10 mabrowndog


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 08:45 AM

This season is over. It has been since late July. If the Sox want to keep Ortiz beyond this year,mwhat's the harm in humoring him for the next week?


Uhhh.... Let's see. A torn Achilles tendon causing long-term or even permanent damage? Surgery for a 6-4, 260-lb DH who turns 37 in November? A prolonged and hampered recovery which, if the Sox re-sign him, would severely reduce his value relative to cost? Your use of the word "humoring" here illustrates your ignorance of the risks involved.

And yeah, you're right. The season has been over since late July. All the more reason to DL him and exercise the patience required for a proper recovery.

#11 Doctor G

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:19 AM

Put him back in a boot and call it a season.

#12 MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:32 AM

Cherrington on D&C this morning said they're meeting today to discuss the Ortiz situation. Said he can do some baseball activities, he can hit, but he remains sore after playing and running is a problem. He said the team doesn't feel it's a long-term problem, but it's a problem right now. No mention of surgery or anything like that. Did say that players can sometimes be their own worst enemies in these kinds of situations and said something along the lines of "sometimes we have to save them from themselves."

Sounds to me like Ortiz will be DL'd again.

#13 RedOctober3829


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:39 AM

Cherrington on D&C this morning said they're meeting today to discuss the Ortiz situation. Said he can do some baseball activities, he can hit, but he remains sore after playing and running is a problem. He said the team doesn't feel it's a long-term problem, but it's a problem right now. No mention of surgery or anything like that. Did say that players can sometimes be their own worst enemies in these kinds of situations and said something along the lines of "sometimes we have to save them from themselves."

Sounds to me like Ortiz will be DL'd again.


I believe it was Rob Bradford yesterday on WEEI that was saying that after Ortiz is done for the season he needs to undergo an ultrasound procedure that should fix the problem that he has with his Achilles. He indicated that the recovery time is a month. DRS, could you elaborate on this kind of a procedure?. If this is going to heal him, then they should do it now and let him use September to recover. That would afford him a normal offseason to get ready for next year. They absolutely should bring him back. According to Fangraphs, his value is again more than he's making. You can't argue with the numbers he's put up the last 2 seasons and bringing him back on a 1-year deal with a modest raise would be smart.

#14 Corsi


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:52 AM

Kalish in the clubhouse this morning. Sounds like Ortiz is going back on the DL.

#15 OttoC


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:00 AM

If Ortiz goes back on the DL, Pedroia will be the active team leader in walks for this season with 34. I find that incredible for a team that has stressed taking pitches for so many years.

#16 Oil Can Dan

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:47 AM

Papi back to DL, Kalish up. He's getting some form of injection and hopes to return this season. I hope he doesn't, although I hope he's on the team next season.

#17 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:50 AM

I was at Friday's game and Papi looked AWFUL in running out his double. Really looked like he was having a hard time rounding the bag.

#18 DaveRoberts'Shoes


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:59 AM

Papi back to DL, Kalish up. He's getting some form of injection and hopes to return this season. I hope he doesn't, although I hope he's on the team next season.


Probably ultrasound-guided PRP into the tendon - maybe this is what Bradford was referring to. No great literature on it, but it can't hurt. Hopefully it works better than on Crawfords elbow...

Edited by DaveRoberts'Shoes, 27 August 2012 - 11:06 AM.


#19 SoxFanPJ


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:32 PM

The continued issues with the Achilles would scare the heck out of me if I was considering signing Ortiz to a multi-year deal. Unless there is some language that voids the second year based on an Achilles tear.

Ex. 2 year $20 million deal, second year becomes a team option with $1 million buyout if Ortiz requires Achilles surgery or spends X amount of days on DL with Achilles injury.



#20 Joe Shlabotnick

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:40 PM

No surprise here. Given that the rest of the season will likely be devoted to seeing what the kids can do, it makes sense for the club to shut him down. Papi, however, will likely fight such a decision (assuming he feels that he is healthy) due to its contractual implications. Stay tuned!

#21 Sprowl


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 01:02 PM

Probably ultrasound-guided PRP into the tendon - maybe this is what Bradford was referring to. No great literature on it, but it can't hurt. Hopefully it works better than on Crawfords elbow...


It's pretty cool that Saito's experimental treatment back in 2008 is now such a standard part of the sports medicine toolkit that it has acquired its own acronym.

#22 DaveRoberts'Shoes


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:12 PM

It's pretty cool that Saito's experimental treatment back in 2008 is now such a standard part of the sports medicine toolkit that it has acquired its own acronym.


Meh - we're orthopedic surgeons, we don't understand much of anything that's longer than three characters.

$10!

#23 Sprowl


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Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:57 PM

Meh - we're orthopedic surgeons, we don't understand much of anything that's longer than three characters.

$10!


Sorry - in Canada we expect health care for free.



Well, on second thought, I'll pony up a southpaw-beer-drinking Josh Beckett $10.

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#24 Pearl Wilson


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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:03 PM

Hmph. I'm not sure how to take this. Bradford tweets:

Ortiz undergoes ultrasound for Achilles. Strictly precautionary. Will be in a boot for 7-10 days






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