1019 replies to this topic

[Corsi]

The Red Sox's positional plan is starting to emerge, and it includes the trio of catcher/first baseman Mike Napoli and outfielders Nick Swisher and Cody Ross.

The Red Sox are in contact with all three players, and all are considered in play. The Red Sox seek a first baseman and two outfielders, and it appears this is their top triumvirate.

Napoli is likely to command a three- or four-year deal, Ross a two- or three-year deal and Swisher a four-year deal.

http://www.cbssports...r-and-cody-ross

[E5 Yaz]

That seems awkwardly written. They want a 1B and 2 OFs, even after signing Gomes?

[Papelbon's Poutine]

That seems awkwardly written. They want a 1B and 2 OFs, even after signing Gomes?

I think people are way too quick around here to assume the Sox have a big role planned for Gomes, based solely on the price tag. I think they saw that increased attention was being given to second tier guys earlier than normal, saw Gomes a s agood fit as a platoon 4th OF, backup DH guy slotted for 250-300 ABs and flexed their monetary muscle to lock Ina guy and not have to worry about it later. There's room for all these guys with the flexibility Napoli and Swisher offer.

[JakeRae]

I think people are way too quick around here to assume the Sox have a big role planned for Gomes, based solely on the price tag. I think they saw that increased attention was being given to second tier guys earlier than normal, saw Gomes a s agood fit as a platoon 4th OF, backup DH guy slotted for 250-300 ABs and flexed their monetary muscle to lock Ina guy and not have to worry about it later. There's room for all these guys with the flexibility Napoli and Swisher offer.

If Swisher and Ross are both signed, who is Gomes getting platooned with?

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Ras, I agree with you upthread. But I think we would all do well to recognize that there is the vision, which has already been articulated multiple times, and the potential paths to achieve that vision. In other words, we should be talking about plans. Everyone is available -- excepting Papi and Pedroia, I think -- depending on what circumstances in the various acquisition markets make this or that plan more likely to achieve the vision.

Yup. I had this talk tonight with a guy at work - everyone but Papi and Pedroia should and hopefully are on the block. I would add WMB, Tazawa and Doibront to that list, unless overwhelmed, relatively. I'm glad the plan is fluid and stuff like this and Lester being on the block encourage me. I'm hoping to hear rumors on Ellsbury next. There are no easy fixes and if they can move parts and swap out assets, then we might need to suffer for a year, but I'm hoping for a bigger plan than sign a few guys from a mediocre crop and hope for the best.

[Rasputin]

Maybe it's too late, or maybe the narcotics are a problem, but I don't really see how an outfield that includes Ellsbury, Swisher, Gomes, and Ross really works.

[E5 Yaz]

I think people are way too quick around here to assume the Sox have a big role planned for Gomes, based solely on the price tag. I think they saw that increased attention was being given to second tier guys earlier than normal, saw Gomes a s agood fit as a platoon 4th OF, backup DH guy slotted for 250-300 ABs and flexed their monetary muscle to lock Ina guy and not have to worry about it later. There's room for all these guys with the flexibility Napoli and Swisher offer.

A platoon with 2 RH outfielders and a switch-hitter on either side of Ellsbury????

Or, what Ras said

[Rasputin]

You could conceivably platoon Gomes and Nava in left, Ross and Kalish in right, and either only get one of Swisher and Napoli for first, or get them both, catch Napoli, and trade both Salty and Lavarnway.

[MikeM]

You could conceivably platoon Gomes and Nava in left, Ross and Kalish in right, and either only get one of Swisher and Napoli for first, or get them both, catch Napoli, and trade both Salty and Lavarnway.

I think it's safe to say that your initial analysis is the logical winner here.

If Ben goes out and grabs Napoli, he's not going to then sign both Swisher and Ross. That would just be......beyond irrational.

[SoxScout]

I don't get it, we are going to beat out ten other teams for Ross and then platoon him down to ~100 games (all home games and away vs LHP)?

I really do not understand this rumored Gomes+Ross+Swisher+Napoli plan.

[Rudy Pemberton]

You don't give platoon OF's three year deals, I suspect if they sign Ross it's to play every day. I would assume its Swisher or Napoli, not both. Maybe they've already soured on Gomes and are shopping him (kidding).

[Dewy4PrezII]

I suspect that a lot of what we are hearing is merely subterfuge and given the relative silence from the Red Sox that they have several trade irons in the fire. The winter meetings, or the days/weeks following them could be very interesting. It would not surprise me to see Ellsbury and Lester moved along with some of the non "B" prospects to return young quality positional players.

[fineyoungarm]

Mike Barnicle on Morning Joe seems to have just reported that Sox have made a deal for Joe Mauer. Cannot find any details or confirmation anywhere.

EDIT: BARNICLE SHOOTING HIS MOUTH OFF. CONFIRMED AS BALONEY. Apparently, some "writers" equate recommendations by Edes with done deals.

Edited by fineyoungarm, 28 November 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[lexrageorge]

There's a reason this is called Hot Stove season, and I would interpret the Sox interest in players like Napoli, Ross, and Swisher to be just that: interest. The chances of the Sox suddenly ending up with all 3 are about 0.01%. But the Sox really would like to get at least one of them, and that would seem to make a lot of sense, especially if they have decided that Josh Hamilton is best avoided at this time.

As for Bailey, if I'm the GM of one of the 29 teams looking for bullpen help, I absolutely would inquire about Bailey. And the Sox would be smart to listen to those inquiries; the price they paid to get Bailey a year ago is essentially irrelevant at this point.

[Beomoose]

Mike Barnicle on Morning Joe seems to have just reported that Sox have made a deal for Joe Mauer. Cannot find any details or confirmation anywhere.

EDIT: BARNICLE SHOOTING HIS MOUTH OFF. CONFIRMED AS BALONEY. Apparently, some "writers" equate recommendations by Edes with done deals.

Glad I'm not the only one who heard this and started madly searching through twitter and Google News for confirmation. Fucking Barnicle going senile.

[Drek717]

That seems awkwardly written. They want a 1B and 2 OFs, even after signing Gomes?

Seems weird, for sure.

I view that as they're unwilling to close the door on Ross until Swisher is signed, because if they lose out on Swisher and aren't willing to really play in Hamilton's market the next best option for RF probably is a Cody Ross/Ryan Kalish platoon.

The goal at this point is clearly to get Napoli and Swisher on 3-4 year deals. Napoli plays 1B for two seasons, then moves to DH. Swisher plays RF for two seasons, then moves to 1B. If Lavarnway fails to pain out at C then Napoli plays there as well, with Swisher taking more time at 1B and freeing up more RF time for Kalish, making LF more of a Nava/Gomes split.

It makes a lot of sense in terms of organizational flexability and locking in Napoli for two years and Swisher for two after that at 1B doesn't really block anyone. If Travis Shaw explodes next season and hits AA like he hit high A last year then maybe this is an issue by the time Swisher is moving to 1B, but then we always have LF for someone like Swisher to play his last two years in if he loses range defensively. That avenue will be open unless two of Kalish, Brentz, and Bradley pan out AND we still have Ellsbury around, or all pan out and Ells leaves.

Its a worthwhile plan to get the kind of bats they need at 1B and RF without committing to stupid long deals beyond the window offered by Lester/Buchholz as our top pitchers. If Lester doesn't bounce back and Buch doesn't stay healthy this team isn't likely to be real competitive for the next two or three seasons anyway, we just won't have the pitching.

Edited by Drek717, 28 November 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Corsi]

Bowden:

RedSox appear to be within striking distance of Swisher,Napoli & CRoss but in all 3 scenarios not giving extra yr that's holding them back

https://twitter.com/...814490129252352

[JimD]

Bowden:
https://twitter.com/...814490129252352

Hold the line, Ben.

[Edelpeddle]

So confused. Swisher would not require a platoon mate, over the last three seasons he's had a .362 wOBA against righties and a .379 wOBA against lefties. And Ross doesn't make sense as a platoon mate for Gomes. Gomes has a .392 wOBA against lefties the last three years to Ross' .374. And the difference in this wOBA against righties is .009. Why not just use Kalish who plays better defense and is lefthanded rather than give a three year deal to Ross because he had a career year?

Ross has to be plan B here. That's the only thing that makes sense.

Edited by Edelpeddle, 28 November 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Ross has to be plan B here. That's the only thing that makes sense.

This is probably it. I'm sure they're pursuing each one and are telling each camp they are the priority, but if two of the three sign, I doubt they continue negotiating with the third. And outfield of Gomes/Nava, Ellsbury and Ross or Swisher is solid enough that this team could get into a position to be a playoff threat by the start of spring training. It's really interesting to see all the possible combinations of players that could make up the roster next year based on the rumors floating about. I like the fact that Ben is exploring a bunch of options for populating the outfield. If you add in the Myers talk that makes four external targets and three in house names for a maximum of five spots. I'm sure we'll hear more names pop up as the winter meetings approach as well.

[Laser Show]

I just don't understand why they're still trying to sign Ross. He's a useful player who's perfect for Fenway, but at the price tag he's looking at plus Gomes similar skill set, I just don't see the point. Even if he's platooning with Kalish in right, that means they'd be carrying five outfielders at all times (assuming the Gomes platoon as well).

[Edelpeddle]

My guess would be that they're claiming they're interested in Ross as a negotiating tactic to sign Swisher and visa versa. They're probably trying to sign each one for good money at one less year than they'd ideally get and are trying to scare them in to thinking that if they hold out for the extra year, they might have to hold out most of the offseason and settle on a contract for less than the Red Sox offered at the same amount of years.

[MHead81]

So confused. Swisher would not require a platoon mate, over the last three seasons he's had a .362 wOBA against righties and a .379 wOBA against righties. And Ross doesn't make sense as a platton mate for Gomes. Gomes has a .392 wOBA against lefties the last three years to Ross' .374. And the difference in this wOBA against righties is .009. Why not just use Kalish who plays better defense and is lefthanded rather than give a three year deal to Ross because he had a career year.

Ross has to be plan B here. That's the only thing that makes sense.

Unless a lot of what is coming out regarding the position(s) each player would play is posturing so that BC has some leverage. Maybe the real plan is:

-Mike Napoli & David Ross platoon at C, Lavarnway in AAA
-Nick Swisher at 1B
-Jonny Gomes & Daniel Nava(?) platoon in LF
-Cody Ross & Ryan Sweeney or Ryan Kalish platoon in RF

I am not saying I do or do not support this idea, I am just trying to make some sense of the reports/rumors.

[Edelpeddle]

Unless a lot of what is coming out regarding the position(s) each player would play is posturing so that BC has some leverage. Maybe the real plan is:

-Mike Napoli & David Ross platoon at C, Lavarnway in AAA
-Nick Swisher at 1B
-Jonny Gomes & Daniel Nava(?) platoon in LF
-Cody Ross & Ryan Sweeney or Ryan Kalish platoon in RF

I am not saying I do or do not support this idea, I am just trying to make some sense of the reports/rumors.

That's true, I hadn't thought of that. I don't think it makes sense from our perspective because Lavarnway is 25 years old and really has nothing left to prove in AAA where he had an .815 OPS and was named defensive catcher of the year last year. However, Napoli does want to catch so it's possible the Red Sox are leading him to believe they're looking at him as a primary catcher. If they are able to sign Napoli, they could then claim that Ross priced himself out and they will have to instead use Swisher in right field and have Napoli play first.

Edited by Edelpeddle, 28 November 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[MHead81]

That's true, I hadn't thought of that. I don't think it makes sense from our perspective because Lavarnway is 25 years old and really has nothing left to prove in AAA where he had an .815 OPS and was named defensive catcher of the year last year.

I agree with this, but it's also possible that they intend to trade him. Again, just trying to make sense of the rumors.

[Savin Hillbilly]

Unless a lot of what is coming out regarding the position(s) each player would play is posturing so that BC has some leverage. Maybe the real plan is:

-Mike Napoli & David Ross platoon at C, Lavarnway in AAA
-Nick Swisher at 1B
-Jonny Gomes & Daniel Nava(?) platoon in LF
-Cody Ross & Ryan Sweeney or Ryan Kalish platoon in RF

I am not saying I do or do not support this idea, I am just trying to make some sense of the reports/rumors.

The problem with this scenario is that you are presumably paying Mike Napoli something in excess of ten million dollars a year to catch 100 games or so, when he's not even a good defensive catcher. There's just no way that's good ROI.

If you give Napoli starts at first as well, that means Swisher will be alternating between first and RF (effectively becoming Ross' platoon partner). Would Swisher really sign on to be used that way? Seems to me he will (and probably should) expect a settled, full-time positional role, whether it's in the outfield or at first.

I can't see how you can deploy Swisher, Napoli, Ross and Gomes in a way that makes sense and is cost-effective as long as Ortiz is around. Any three of them, yes, but not all four.

[MHead81]

The problem with this scenario is that you are presumably paying Mike Napoli something in excess of ten million dollars a year to catch 100 games or so, when he's not even a good defensive catcher. There's just no way that's good ROI.

If you give Napoli starts at first as well, that means Swisher will be alternating between first and RF (effectively becoming Ross' platoon partner). Would Swisher really sign on to be used that way? Seems to me he will (and probably should) expect a settled, full-time positional role, whether it's in the outfield or at first.

I can't see how you can deploy Swisher, Napoli, Ross and Gomes in a way that makes sense and is cost-effective as long as Ortiz is around. Any three of them, yes, but not all four.

I don't disagree with any of this.

[OttoC]

Unless a lot of what is coming out regarding the position(s) each player would play is posturing so that BC has some leverage. Maybe the real plan is:

-Mike Napoli & David Ross platoon at C, Lavarnway in AAA
-Nick Swisher at 1B
-Jonny Gomes & Daniel Nava(?) platoon in LF
-Cody Ross & Ryan Sweeney or Ryan Kalish platoon in RF

I am not saying I do or do not support this idea, I am just trying to make some sense of the reports/rumors.

Let's see, that's seven of the 13 position players taking up platoon positions, with only Swisher (1B) and Napoli (1B) having experience at other positions and on;ly Swisher, Cody Ross, and Sweeney have any experience in center. Won't that be stretching things pretty thin as they will need to have a 2B, 3B, SS, and CF on the field as well as having a 2B/SS/ and 3B on the bench (two OFs, a catcher and Pedro Ciriaco?)

[Rovin Romine]

I can't see how you can deploy Swisher, Napoli, Ross and Gomes in a way that makes sense and is cost-effective as long as Ortiz is around. Any three of them, yes, but not all four.

Agreed. And odd that Gomes seems to be the least effective player out of all 4.

It's possible that they have tentative deals in place for their current crop of outfielders. If that's the case, you trade if possible after the signings, so as not to lose leverage. They haven't traded Salty yet, and everyone knows he's the odd man out at this point.

Is there a rule that prevents them from trading Gomes for a certain period of time? If not, they could always flip him somewhere by paying part of his contract.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Do folks honestly think that the Red Sox would be willing to give Cody Ross a 3 year deal (presumably at ~$6M per, at least) to be a platoon guy?

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Is there a rule that prevents them from trading Gomes for a certain period of time? If not, they could always flip him somewhere by paying part of his contract.

I believe it is some date in June before a team can trade away a free agent signing, but I could be wrong. Seems unfair to a free agent to sign somewhere and then be dealt off immediately before playing a game for the team he signed with. If the acquiring team in such a trade really wanted the player, they had the same opportunity as any other team to sign him without giving anything up but cash anyway.

[Corsi]

I believe it is some date in June before a team can trade away a free agent signing, but I could be wrong.

You can trade them anytime with the player's permission. The Sox and Cardinals did this with Mike Myers previously.

• December 22, 2004: Signed as a Free Agent with the St. Louis Cardinals.
• March 29, 2005: Traded by the St. Louis Cardinals to the Boston Red Sox for Carlos De La Cruz (minors) and Kevin Ool (minors).

Edited by Corsi, 28 November 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[Drek717]

I just don't understand why they're still trying to sign Ross. He's a useful player who's perfect for Fenway, but at the price tag he's looking at plus Gomes similar skill set, I just don't see the point. Even if he's platooning with Kalish in right, that means they'd be carrying five outfielders at all times (assuming the Gomes platoon as well).

Because if you can't get Swisher and you think Hamilton is either a bad fit for Boston or will never play 140+ games for you who else do you sign for RF?

If you take Hamilton and Swisher out of the equation the best option for RF available is a Kalish/Ross platoon. The combined output of that pairing should be pretty good for the money you'd have to spend for it and you wouldn't have any real long term commitment.

[E5 Yaz]

Because if you can't get Swisher and you think Hamilton is either a bad fit for Boston or will never play 140+ games for you who else do you sign for RF?

If you take Hamilton and Swisher out of the equation the best option for RF available is a Kalish/Ross platoon.

Unless, you know, they make a trade

[geoduck no quahog]

The scenarios need to include a high chance of not signing Napoli. That makes Swisher/Ross more sensible.

[Clears Cleaver]

they must think Iglesias has enough range to cover LF and RF a well as SS and 1B

[Drek717]

Unless, you know, they make a trade

Sure, that is the perpetual wild card. However, nothing currently sounds like the Red Sox are really chasing down any of the ML level trade options out there. We haven't heard a peep about Morneau and other teams have generated more smoke on Upton than the Red Sox. It looks like the current tactic is to fill needs with second tier FAs on shorter deals, protecting the farm and waiting for it to pay dividends.

[bosockboy]

Also seems like they are completely focused on positional players right now; haven't heard a peep lately about their involvement on Sanchez, Haren, other pitchers, etc....

[geoduck no quahog]

Let's see, that's seven of the 13 position players taking up platoon positions, with only Swisher (1B) and Napoli (1B) having experience at other positions and on;ly Swisher, Cody Ross, and Sweeney have any experience in center. Won't that be stretching things pretty thin as they will need to have a 2B, 3B, SS, and CF on the field as well as having a 2B/SS/ and 3B on the bench (two OFs, a catcher and Pedro Ciriaco?)

I just did a quick spreadsheet to see if anything like that made sense. One day I'll figure out how to insert it (hold jokes)

Down and Dirty (and backing up CF not considered):

Catcher: Napoli (95) / Ross and/or Lavarnway (67)
1B: Swisher (127) / Napoli (35)
RF: Ross (105) / Swisher (32) / Kalish (25)
LF: Gomes (85) / Ross (50) / Nava (27)
DH: Ortiz (140) / Napoli (10) / Gomes (12)

That works out to the following games started:

Napoli: 140
Swisher: 159
Ross: 155
Ortiz: 140
Gomes: 97
Nava: 27
Kalish: 25
D Ross / Lavarnway: 67

It's just a test run to promote ideas.

[941827]

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but whither Ryan Sweeney? Is he no longer in consideration for a starting (or any) role? I wouldn't mind seeing him get another chance when healthy.

A Gomes, Ellsbury, Swisher OF would be interesting defensively. Ellsbury would have to be "wheelin' it big" in CF.

Maybe positional flexibility is the new inefficiency. Signing a Swisher-Napoli combination gives you the ability to mix-and-match between C-1B-RF quite a bit.

Edited by 941827, 28 November 2012 - 03:00 PM.

[Plympton91]

You don't give platoon OF's three year deals, I suspect if they sign Ross it's to play every day. I would assume its Swisher or Napoli, not both. Maybe they've already soured on Gomes and are shopping him (kidding).

Vs. lefties

Ross in RF
Gomes in LF
Napoli C
Swisher 1B

Vs. Righties

Ross in LF
Swisher in RF
Napoli 1B
Ross - C

That makes Ross, Swisher, and Napoli everyday players, Gomes a platoon player, and uses Ross. In this scenario, Nava, Kalish, and Lavarnway are back at AAA. Does Kalish still have an option? I'm sure Nava and Lavarnway do.

[MikeM]

Also seems like they are completely focused on positional players right now; haven't heard a peep lately about their involvement on Sanchez, Haren, other pitchers, etc....

Probably due to a seemingly better surface chance that one/some of these guys take an early deal.

The big prize of the pitching side of things Greinke likely not signing before the winter meetings at the earliest, and what goes on with him having more of an overall/alternative options impact. Aka: unless Sanchez gets fairly blown away with a deal he likes, he's probably going to wait for the potential aftermath scrabble that will ensue after Greinke is off the table. Or at least attempt to capitalize on a scenario where the Greinke negotiations are dragging out, with one team stepping up on him to ensure they are not left empty handed.

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Maybe it's too late, or maybe the narcotics are a problem, but I don't really see how an outfield that includes Ellsbury, Swisher, Gomes, and Ross really works.

Well, after my narcotics have worn off (actually benzos), rereading my post, yes you are correct. In fairness to myself I didn't mean to include the word platoon on Gomes, simply meaning that he was being viewed as a 4th OF, DH insurance and PH (which we will probably need if we go with Iglesias, as you wouldn't want to rely on Ciriaco in a big AB). Thinking of the ability to play Ross in LF or RF, Swisher in either corner OF and 1B and Napoli at 1B and C, I figured there would be enough bats to go around, especially considering injuries. It wouldn't have been the most efficient use of $, but they could afford it for a couple years. But after looking at quahogs breakdown (which doesn't account for interleague games, so drop another 20 games from the DH slot), I agree it doesn't make sense for all these guys. I'll have to agree with everyone and hope that Ross interest is merely a backup plan to Swisher. If Gomes wasn't a butcher in the field and didn't have such a platoon split, it could work, but he's not the right guy for that plan.

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but whither Ryan Sweeney? Is he no longer in consideration for a starting (or any) role? I wouldn't mind seeing him get another chance when healthy.

I'd imagine Ben is trying to find someone to take him off their hands before the tender deadline as I can't see anyway he makes it past that still on the team.

[MikeM]

For all the talk about Ben being one of the driving forces behind the decision to sign Carl Crawford, or whether or not this was a guy who generally learned from his mistakes, i'm personally taking some comfort in the fact we didn't even register a radar hit on BJ Upton. As when i stated earlier in this thread that the alternative could always be a lot worse, being the dummy team that went out signed Upton to a splashy 5/$75 deal was pretty much topping my list of potential disasters.

Gotta wonder where this may put Swisher's market value at though.

[nvalvo]

For all the talk about Ben being one of the driving forces behind the decision to sign Carl Crawford, or whether or not this was a guy who generally learned from his mistakes, i'm personally taking some comfort in the fact we didn't even register a radar hit on BJ Upton. As when i stated earlier in this thread that the alternative could always be a lot worse, being the dummy team that went out signed Upton to a splashy 5/$75 deal was pretty much topping my list of potential disasters.

Before the off-season, I was interested in BJ Upton assuming that he'd be available for a cheap short-term deal, say 2/20, allowing us to deal Ellsbury for young pitchers and develop Bradley.

I was wrong. Yikes, this deal is horrible.

[mabrowndog]

They want a 1B and 2 OFs, even after signing Gomes?

Maybe they've already soured on Gomes and are shopping him (kidding).

The Sox have not officially signed Gomes yet. Nearly all the reports that came out last week said they had merely "agreed to terms" and I recall only one report that added "pending a physical". No press releases have been issued, it's not in the team's transactions log, and he's not listed on the official roster.

If they're still committed to signing him as reported, it's likely not going to happen until after the Rule 5 Draft next week unless they make a trade that clears a 40-man spot.

But it's also remotely possible that the reports were all misinformed (or misdirected by the club's sources) and the Sox are taking a different tack, with Gomes now part of Plan B.

Edited by mabrowndog, 28 November 2012 - 10:25 PM.

[AZBlue]

they must think Iglesias has enough range to cover LF and RF a well as SS and 1B

Not really. They only expect Iglasias to handle SS, shallow LF and CF and to poach half of the ground balls hit on the other side of second base.

[BigJimEd]

The Sox have not officially signed Gomes yet. Nearly all the reports that came out last week said they had merely "agreed to terms" and I recall only one report that added "pending a physical". No press releases have been issued, it's not in the team's transactions log, and he's not listed on the official roster.

If they're still committed to signing him as reported, it's likely not going to happen until after the Rule 5 Draft next week unless they make a trade that clears a 40-man spot.

But it's also remotely possible that the reports were all misinformed (or misdirected by the club's sources) and the Sox are taking a different tack, with Gomes now part of Plan B.

Lucchino was on EEI this morning and said they would have an announcement on a corner OF in a day or two. They were just waiting on physicals. I assumed he meant Gomes.

[redsoxstiff]

I am generally scared when Lucky speaks...

Right now I am thinking Ross... higher money and two two years...THo' my crystal balls are in need of a through cleaning and polishing...I'll stay loyal...

Apropos of Nickie...I wouldn't give a fiddler's fuck if we landed Greinke...