86 replies to this topic

[Greg29fan]

Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Just announced by #MLB: #SFGiants' Melky Cabrera suspended 50 games without pay after testing positive for testosterone.

Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Cabrera suspension effective immediately. Out for rest of season. #SFGiants.

Edited by Greg29fan, 15 August 2012 - 01:44 PM.

[Spacemans Bong]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Just announced by #MLB: #SFGiants' Melky Cabrera suspended 50 games without pay after testing positive for testosterone.

There's a stunner. His career OPS+ with NY was 86, with the Braves it was 83. Suddenly in the last two years it's 121 and 158. Only shocker is why it took MLB two years to catch him.

[zapo]

Has he been getting "hitting" tips from Barry Bonds??

[dylanmarsh]

Zito for Crawford!

[Spacemans Bong]

There's a stunner. His career OPS+ with NY was 86, with the Braves it was 83. Suddenly in the last two years it's 121 and 158. Only shocker is why it took MLB two years to catch him.

Well he always had the talented but lazy tag attached to him, but yeah.

First reaction you can see above. 15 seconds later was admitting to myself that he was, by far, the likeliest candidate on the Giants to be on steroids.

[rembrat]

The biggest 'duh' in the world.

[Greg29fan]

Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Cabrera takes responsibility in statement. "My positive test was the result of my use of a substance that I should not have used." #SFGiants

[Reggie's Racquet]

Here is an actual official link: http://mlb.mlb.com/n...ws_mlb&c_id=mlb

[NickEsasky]

Yet steroids do not help player performance right?

[SouthernBoSox]

At least he just fucking admits it.

[HillysLastWalk]

Former Yankee, got a nice little connect going. Check!

All of a sudden having an awesome season. Check!

.... Hrmmm. Crazy news though.

There's a stunner. His career OPS+ with NY was 86, with the Braves it was 83. Suddenly in the last two years it's 121 and 158. Only shocker is why it took MLB two years to catch him.

Not to pick on this particular quote, and I definitely don't know your stance on PED's and whether they help performance, but I'm just using it as a jump-off ...

Can someone clarify to me what point the subset of bloggers/writers/whoever who don't believe that PED's actually improve performance is? Because the Keith Law's and the David Shoenwhateverhisname is's of the world, I thought they were adamant that it didn't help. I could also be entirely mis-representing their sentiment or what point is actually being made.

EDIT: Or to put it this succinctly:

Yet steroids do not help player performance right?

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 15 August 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[LeoCarrillo]

The Giants have 45 games left in the regular season. Would he be able to come back after 5 playoff games?

Edit: Just found answer in 3rd or 4th article I read. Answer is yes. He'd be eligible after 5 playoff games. Rusty, granted.

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 15 August 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[AMS25]

@keithlaw Of course what the Giants should do to replace Melky is sign Barry Bonds.

Edited by AMS25, 15 August 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[mauidano]

From the Melk Man to the Juice Man.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

HLW, his SLG went from 386 to 470 to 516 in successive years. Maybe that's just a natural development of going from 25 to 27, but that, combined with getting busted and admitting it, certainly hints to how it might affect his numbers.

Until he went to KC, he had never slugged any higher than 416.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Well he always had the talented but lazy tag attached to him, but yeah.

First reaction you can see above. 15 seconds later was admitting to myself that he was, by far, the likeliest candidate on the Giants to be on steroids.

Yankees likely brought him up too early as well, but the jump in production was crazy.

[HillysLastWalk]

HLW, his SLG went from 386 to 470 to 516 in successive years. Maybe that's just a natural development of going from 25 to 27, but that, combined with getting busted and admitting it, certainly hints to how it might affect his numbers.

Until he went to KC, he had never slugged any higher than 416.

I'm with you. I tend to believe that PED's help with performance, but there is a segment of writers/bloggers much smarter than me that don't. Using the numbers you supplied is just another example (in my mind) of them helping.

[Spacemans Bong]

Former Yankee, got a nice little connect going. Check!

All of a sudden having an awesome season. Check!

.... Hrmmm. Crazy news though.



Not to pick on this particular quote, and I definitely don't know your stance on PED's and whether they help performance, but I'm just using it as a jump-off ...

Can someone clarify to me what point the subset of bloggers/writers/whoever who don't believe that PED's actually improve performance is? Because the Keith Law's and the David Shoenwhateverhisname is's of the world, I thought they were adamant that it didn't help. I could also be entirely mis-representing their sentiment or what point is actually being made.

EDIT: Or to put it this succinctly:

Well, in the case of steroids, they don't. They just help you to recover from working out (or playing, I guess, but that sounds like using a sledgehammer so you can nail up a painting). So if Melky's testing positive for testosterone, he still made changes to his life (remember fat lazy Melky?), he just took something to give him a boost.

I've heard Law say other things about PEDs but I can't remember them all. But the above is a conceit that gets used a lot.

[Adrian's Dome]

Well, at least he got that sweet car from winning the ASG MVP.

[Reggie's Racquet]

They take Beckett off ours hands with his complete contract we give them back Cody Ross.
They give us a PTBNL.

[Reggie's Racquet]

Well, at least he got that sweet car from winning the ASG MVP.

Car was no doubt modified to run faster.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

He's a FA after this year as well IIRC, so he had a good incentive to maximize his production by any means to get a big contract.

[mrsbeasley]

At least he just fucking admits it.

After lying about it last month to the reporter who had the story (and getting that reporter to apologize to HIM).

[HillysLastWalk]

They take Beckett off ours hands with his complete contract we give them back Cody Ross.
They give us a PTBNL.

This.

[Average Reds]

I'm with you. I tend to believe that PED's help with performance, but there is a segment of writers/bloggers who are much smarter than me that don't so stubborn that they are unwilling or unable to look at the plain truth in front of them and admit that steroids work. Using the numbers you supplied is just another example (in my mind) of them helping.

FTFY.

[maufman]

I would be stunned if Cody Ross cleared waivers. Did I miss something?

[trekfan55]

When a player is suspended for fighting he is not replaced on the 25 man roster, I assume that rule does not apply here since it's 50 games.

Also, the guy took something that is easily detectable on the tests they use nowadays, did he really think he wouldn't get caught?

Edited by trekfan55, 15 August 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[NickEsasky]

When a player is suspended for fighting he is not replaced on the 25 man roster, I assume that rule does not apply here since it's 50 games.

Also, the guy took something that is easily detectable on the tests they use nowadays, did he really think he wouldn't get caught?

Well he had at least 20 million reasons to try right?

[AimingForYoko]

Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Cabrera takes responsibility in statement. "My positive test was the result of my use of a substance that I should not have used." #SFGiants

I was so looking forward to hearing whatever the wheel of excuses landed on this time. Allergy meds, viagra, lab mistake, "I'll investigate further and get back to you", "it wasn't me". Those are the best part of these stories.

[jon abbey]

Most obvious juicer since Bret Boone, dude looked like a different person this year (forget about results), head shape and all. Sorry, Melky.

[PrestonBroadus Lives]

I'm not firmly in the camp stating that there is no gain in performance from PED use, I'd say I'm still on the fence. Having said that, performance in relation to PED use wasn't really brought up by many when Guillermo Mota, Freddy Galvis and Marlon Byrd were caught earlier this year. It's not until a player having a good year and gets caught (like Melky) that the discussion is started. Confirmation bias seems pretty obvious sometimes.

[TheGoldenGreek33]

Well he had at least 20 million reasons to try right?

Low risk, high reward.

[HillysLastWalk]

I'm not firmly in the camp stating that there is no gain in performance from PED use, I'd say I'm still on the fence. Having said that, performance in relation to PED use wasn't really brought up by many when Guillermo Mota, Freddy Galvis and Marlon Byrd were caught earlier this year. It's not until a player having a good year and gets caught (like Melky) that the discussion is started. Confirmation bias seems pretty obvious sometimes.

As my evidence, I'm really just utilizing the fact that we had over a decade where the numbers in baseball turned into Video Game numbers and where 60 HR's was cracked more times than all the other years outside of the Steroids era combined. That's my bias. Melky's numbers are just little sprinkles on the cake. Mmmmm ... sprinkles.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 15 August 2012 - 03:24 PM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

So,home field advantage in the world series was decided based on the actions of a guy suspended for using performance enhancers? That pretty much sums up MLB.

[Statman]

I'm not firmly in the camp stating that there is no gain in performance from PED use, I'd say I'm still on the fence. Having said that, performance in relation to PED use wasn't really brought up by many when Guillermo Mota, Freddy Galvis and Marlon Byrd were caught earlier this year. It's not until a player having a good year and gets caught (like Melky) that the discussion is started. Confirmation bias seems pretty obvious sometimes.

Here's the obligatory reference to shitty players getting caught using PEDs.

How do you know that Mota, Galvis and Byrd would even be in baseball if they were not juicing? If I were a Triple A or DFA player like those you mentioned, I would be injecting myself with whatever PED I could to help me at least stay on the 25 man roster.

[Andrew]

So,home field advantage in the world series was decided based on the actions of a guy suspended for using performance enhancers? That pretty much sums up MLB.

I hope someone in the media makes this part of the story. I don't really care, but anything to provide further evidence of "this time it counts" as dumb is good in my book.

[dylanmarsh]

So,home field advantage in the world series was decided based on the actions of a guy suspended for using performance enhancers? That pretty much sums up MLB.

Perfect point. Maybe they'll repossess the car he won and give it to the AL to make things right?

[Billy R Ford]

One interesting tidbit I heard on the radio: Cabrera is second in the NL in batting and first in hits, making it conceivable that McCutcheon could choke his lead away down the stretch and lose the batting title to him. But you need 502 PA to qualify for the batting title. Cabrera? Currently at 501. Poetic justice.

[BoSox Rule]

Not really. They just add a hitless PA to his record.

[Al Zarilla]

All around bad day in Black Rock for the Giants with another poor performance by Tim Lincecum. The Melkmen and Melkmaids are history too.

[Rough Carrigan]

I'm with you. I tend to believe that PED's help with performance, but there is a segment of writers/bloggers much smarter than me that don't. Using the numbers you supplied is just another example (in my mind) of them helping.

Of course steroids help performance. But guys improve their performance in other ways, too. Jose Bautista, of the Blue Jays, apparently improved mostly as a result of taking a tip from Jays hitting coach Dwayne Murphy to start his swing earlier. As long as someone doesn't put forth the annoying meme that improvement is ipso facto proof of steroid use, I'm fine with discussing it.

[Rough Carrigan]

You know, he used to pal around with ARod when he was on the yankees. Just sayin' . .

[jon abbey]

You know, he used to pal around with ARod when he was on the yankees. Just sayin' . .

He actually used to pal around with Cano primarily, which is one reason NY got rid of him (the main one being he was getting expensive and wasn't worth keeping anymore) because they thought he was a distraction for their star. Of course that was three teams ago for Melky and probably not too relevant at this point.

[Al Zarilla]

He actually used to pal around with Cano primarily, which is one reason NY got rid of him (the main one being he was getting expensive and wasn't worth keeping anymore) because they thought he was a distraction for their star.

I remember them horsing around in the dugout, laughing it up. Once or twice it was when a game was going poorly for the Yankees. Looked a bit inappropriate. Just a bit. He was talked about as a great teammate with the Giants. Just Sunday, it was Melky that nudged Hunter Pence up the dugout stairs to take a curtain call after Pence's 3 run HR that basically won the game for the Giants. Now my NL team has some really shitty news, along with that AL team I've been following for a hundred years.

[Van Everyman]

So,home field advantage in the world series was decided based on the actions of a guy suspended for using performance enhancers? That pretty much sums up MLB.

Of course the Yankees had home field IIRC in the 2003 WS when a juicing Giambi hit two HR in a Game 7 of the ALCS that was decided in extra innings. Is that really much different?

[Wingack]

Former Yankee, got a nice little connect going. Check!

That he should have performed like this as a Yankee right?

[ajml]

So,home field advantage in the world series was decided based on the actions of a guy suspended for using performance enhancers? That pretty much sums up MLB.

More like two guys!

[derekson]

He actually used to pal around with Cano primarily, which is one reason NY got rid of him (the main one being he was getting expensive and wasn't worth keeping anymore) because they thought he was a distraction for their star. Of course that was three teams ago for Melky and probably not too relevant at this point.

He still works out with ARod in the off-season, I believe.

source: http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all

Rodriguez’s role in Cabrera’s turnaround was central. The two formed a bond during their years together with the Yankees from 2005 to 2009, and they remained close after the Yankees traded Cabrera to the Atlanta Braves — with Mike Dunn and Arodys Vizcaino for pitchers Boone Logan and Javier Vazquez — after the 2009 championship season.

....


Knowing Cabrera was at a crossroads, his mother, his agent and Rodriguez all urged him to focus on his conditioning and his craft to save his once-promising career from dissipating into obscurity.
Rodriguez was particularly convincing, persuading Cabrera to leave his home in the Dominican Republic and move to Miami to work out with him.
“You don’t realize how hard that is to do for a kid like him from the Dominican,” Rodriguez said. “He has been with his mother his entire life. Leaving was not easy. But he was dedicated. Christmas Day, he went home to the Dominican, and on the 26th, he was back in Miami working out.”
Cabrera bought a home in Kendall, Fla., near Rodriguez’s childhood home. He found a trainer and spent hours at Rodriguez’s house in his batting cage, perfecting his swing from both sides of the plate.

Edited by derekson, 15 August 2012 - 11:55 PM.

[jon abbey]

Ah, did not know that. The two of them need to invest in some better masking agents.