367 replies to this topic

[TheYellowDart5]

Boston Red Sox players blasted manager Bobby Valentine to owners John Henry and Larry Lucchino during a heated meeting called after a text message was sent by a group of frustrated players to the team and ownership in late July, three sources familiar with the meeting told Yahoo! Sports.
The owners called the meeting for Boston's off-day in New York on July 27 after first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, texting on behalf of himself and some teammates, aired their dissatisfaction with Valentine for embarrassing starting pitcher Jon Lester by leaving him in to allow 11 runs during a July 22 start. It was the latest incident in a season's worth of bad relations bubbling between Red Sox players and Valentine.
Gonzalez and Dustin Pedroia were among the most vocal in the meeting, in which some players stated flatly they no longer wanted to play for Valentine, the sources said. The tenor of the 2 p.m. meeting at The Palace hotel in New York turned ugly almost immediately, according to the sources, whom Yahoo! Sports granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about internal matters.

From the beginning of the Red Sox's courtship of Valentine this offseason to the double-barreled votes of confidence last week, the match of the hard-nosed Bobby V with the laissez-faire Boston clubhouse seemed tenuous at best. It has proven far worse, personified best perhaps by a picture circulating around via text message, according to a fourth source.
Pedroia, notorious among teammates for his wit and humor, is in the foreground with a giddy smile, his tongue wagging and both thumbs up. Next to him is allegedly Valentine, face down on a table, apparently asleep. A caption accompanies the picture: "Our manager contemplating his lineup at 3:30 p.m."

Certainly the concoction of losing and an unfamiliar style has hurt Valentine's standing with players. Ownership remains in Valentine's corner, with Henry saying in his statement eight days ago: "We have been nothing but supportive of him inside and outside the clubhouse."
The support, according to the sources, baffles those against Valentine, who wonder why the meeting was called if it wasn't going to change anything. During the meeting, the players told Henry and Lucchino that part of the disconnect comes from Valentine spending excessive time in his office.

http://sports.yahoo....-gonzalez-.html

[CaptainLaddie]

DH3 says nothing wrong. There's nothing to see here.

[Manramsclan]

Pedroia, notorious among teammates for his wit and humor, is in the foreground with a giddy smile, his tongue wagging and both thumbs up. Next to him is allegedly Valentine, face down on a table, apparently asleep. A caption accompanies the picture: "Our manager contemplating his lineup at 3:30 p.m."

This I want to see.

[gammoseditor]

Buster Olney should take notes from Jeff Passan on how to get a source to go on the record and then report a story.

[CaptainLaddie]

This I want to see.

Me too.

I can't think of a single player who has come out with a full defense of Flawless Bobby V. I don't need my manager to be best buddies with the players, but he does need to command their respect. It is obvious to anyone that Flawless Bobby V has the respect of no player in that clubhouse.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Is there any way that we can trade this entire franchise?

Last year the players get the ultimate player's manager canned.
This year the players don't like the guy running the ship.

What's next? At some point, management has to stop coddling these players and start sending a message that if you don't want to play for whomever is managing the club, you don't play. And while I hate to repeat a Mike Felgerism, this does not include getting the players on Henry's private yacht and giving them $100 head phones, which is such a metaphor for the way that this team has stopped listening, that it would be considered way too hacky if this was a piece of fiction.

The worst part is that if the FO is going to make a stand against these players, they're going to have to give Valentine an extension. And that's something I don't think any of us want them to do.

So the Red Sox are screwed. Wonderful.

[Savin Hillbilly]

Yikes. The atmosphere in that clubhouse must be something really special.

One thing I am increasingly certain of: Dustin Pedroia and Bobby Valentine will not both be wearing a Sox uniform on Opening Day 2013. And given how tradeable Pedey's contract is, I am not feeling as certain as I'd like to that he'll be the one who stays.

[Rudy Pemberton]

The players were mad at Valentine because he left Lester in to give up 11 runs, so they texted ownership?

Lester embarrassed himself by yet another awful performance, and the players were mad at the manager.

Entitled bunch of fucks. They deserve their manager.

[JimBoSox9]

Man, I'm torn about this. Really torn. On the one hand, Pedey and Gonzo are two guys who, from what little I know, go about their business the way I want my Sox players to. And I HATE Bobby Valentine. On the other hand, Bobby is a curse the players brought on themselves, and part of me feels like they should be shutting up and taking their medicine as a result of getting Tito run out of town. On the third hand, a clubhouse is not a unified entity, so it's entirely possible that the players who undermined Tito last year and the players who don't respect Bobby are discrete, negating hand #2. On the fourth hand............AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH is a good summation of what I think.

Just fucking fix it. Identify what's causing the pollution and get it the fuck out regardless of cost. This is clown behavior for any professional organization.

[mauidano]

I'd like to see ANY player "man up" and come forward and say he doesn't like the situation. Just one. Anybody? Otherwise, STFU with the high school BS. For the most part, these guys have literally shit the bed. Take a long hard look in the mirror first before you start with the blame game and the overpriced whineing. If Lester doesn't like being in the game when he gives up 11 runs then don't give up 11 runs!!!! I didn't hear him complaining. Bunch of cry babies. My respect for them is waning.

[TomRicardo]

When can we chase ownership out of town? I hear Liverpool is lovely this time of year.

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Who's DH3?

The fact that Cherington confirmed that a meeting took place is going to make for an interesting explanation on this from Valentine.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I think we can all agree that we want Bobby gone, but the message that sends is that the players get what they want, again. And they get it by acting like entitled fucks, and by playing like ass (and pissing away an entire season). But, you can't get rid of all the players, so this is what you have to do.

[JohntheBaptist]

Is there any way that we can trade this entire franchise?

Last year the players get the ultimate player's manager canned.
This year the players don't like the guy running the ship.

What's next? At some point, management has to stop coddling these players and start sending a message that if you don't want to play for whomever is managing the club, you don't play. And while I hate to repeat a Mike Felgerism, this does not include getting the players on Henry's private yacht and giving them $100 head phones, which is such a metaphor for the way that this team has stopped listening, that it would be considered way too hacky if this was a piece of fiction.

The worst part is that if the FO is going to make a stand against these players, they're going to have to give Valentine an extension. And that's something I don't think any of us want them to do.

So the Red Sox are screwed. Wonderful.

Reading their list of complaints its just "he's mean and we hate him." Hey guys: you have a shitty manager. It happens, it sucks, we agree with you. It does not mean you get to take a fucking pass on the season and pout.

What a disaster.

[dbn]

The players were mad at Valentine because he left Lester in to give up 11 runs, so they texted ownership?

Lester embarrassed himself by yet another awful performance, and the players were mad at the manager.

Entitled bunch of fucks. They deserve their manager.

"The players were mad at Valentine because he left Lester in to give up 11 runs,"... got a long-time teammate traded for not even salary relief, regularly goes on the record undermining his players... "so they texted ownership?"

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

The players were mad at Valentine because he left Lester in to give up 11 runs, so they texted ownership?

Lester embarrassed himself by yet another awful performance, and the players were mad at the manager.

Entitled bunch of fucks. They deserve their manager.

Hasn't the conclusion here been that the bullpen was short because they're carrying 3 catchers and Bobby Valentine's passive agressive approach to handling this was leaving in Lester?

[mauidano]

The players were mad at Valentine because he left Lester in to give up 11 runs, so they texted ownership?

Lester embarrassed himself by yet another awful performance, and the players were mad at the manager.

Entitled bunch of fucks. They deserve their manager.

Johnny Pesky never played the game this way. They should be embarrassed. No class.

[SouthernBoSox]

Is there any way that we can trade this entire franchise?

Last year the players get the ultimate player's manager canned.
This year the players don't like the guy running the ship.

What's next? At some point, management has to stop coddling these players and start sending a message that if you don't want to play for whomever is managing the club, you don't play. And while I hate to repeat a Mike Felgerism, this does not include getting the players on Henry's private yacht and giving them $100 head phones, which is such a metaphor for the way that this team has stopped listening, that it would be considered way too hacky if this was a piece of fiction.

The worst part is that if the FO is going to make a stand against these players, they're going to have to give Valentine an extension. And that's something I don't think any of us want them to do.

So the Red Sox are screwed. Wonderful.

Spot on.

The players suck, their manager sucks, and the ownership group has made monumentally terrible decisions.

What the hell are you suppose to do?

[Titoschew]

Nice job by the local media sniffing this out. Oh wait.

[bankshot1]

Given the apparent lack of respect that BV commands, he is gone a day after this shit-show of a season ends. I can't see him getting extended.
He was a high risk choice, with the fear being that a veteran team would chafe and ultimately rebel under his abrasive manner, and thats what we got.

[Steve Dillard]

The fact that Cherington confirmed that a meeting took place is going to make for an interesting explanation on this from Valentine.

You're assuming Valentine isn't the source that sold-out his nemeses to make them look selfish?

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I understand the notion that they "quit" on Francona and got him fired, but I don't think they were actively trying to get him fired. I think the players liked Francona, liked his style, liked to play for him. But they took him for granted, abused him, and he subsequently was jettisoned. So I disagree with the idea that they're contradicting themselves now with their complaints about Bobby V.

They were stupid last year and the unintended outcome of their actions was to lose the manager and the management style they preferred. That doesn't mean the owners' reaction should be "fuck them, they reap what they sow". Whether the players are spoiled, entitled pricks or not, essentially telling them to fuck off and suck it up is a recipe for disaster.

[E5 Yaz]

Cherrington's quote in that article:

"The intent of the meeting was to provide a forum for people to express whatever frustration needed to be expressed at a time during the season when things were not going exactly the way we wanted to on the field in hopes that we could put whatever issues were there aside and focus on playing games the rest of the season."

"Since then, we have not gone on the run we were supposed to.

[Yazdog8]

Johnny Pesky never played the game this way. They should be embarrassed. No class.

He'd be spinning in his grave if he was actually, you know, in one yet...

[TomRicardo]

I hate Ben Cherington. Can we get Dan Duquette back?

[Savin Hillbilly]

I think we can all agree that we want Bobby gone, but the message that sends is that the players get what they want, again.

Right, which is why I suspect, unfortunately, that any possibility that Valentine might be fired before the end of the season just went out the window, and even the possibility of him being canned over the winter just took a serious hit. It is now starting to take on the character of a test of wills between players and ownership, with BV as the vehicle. Lucchino might have been persuaded to let go of BV if it was just a generalized notion floating in the media soup that he's having trouble controlling the clubhouse, but now that it's out there that key players have gone to ownership as a group and demanded he be fired, firing him will make Lucchino look weak. Which means it's not going to happen.

[Yazdog8]

I hate Ben Cherington. Can we get Dan Duquette back?

We'd probably have to give up 'significant compensation' for him. Or Chris Carpenter.

[mauidano]

He'd be spinning in his grave if he was actually, you know, in one yet...

I was thinking about saying that but...too soon!

[EdRalphRomero]

"...texting on behalf of himself and some other players."

Worst part of the whole thing. Text messages are the sally way out. Pick up the phone or, better yet, go knock on a door. I can't stand Valentine, but they are actually making me take his side.

[Foulkey Reese]

Really tough to root for this team right now.

Issues that have inflamed players range far and wide. Leaving in Lester, a well-respected figure in the clubhouse, to get blasted for 11 runs and four home runs against Toronto soured players already beaten down by Valentine's managerial style. Valentine uttering "Nice inning, kid" to rookie third baseman Will Middlebrooks after he made a defensive blunder – an episode to which Valentine admitted on WEEI radio – only furthered the animus toward the 62-year-old, who is managing in the major leagues for the first time since 2002. Since spring training, players have chafed at Valentine's careless – and occasionally self-serving – interactions with the Boston media, which his predecessor, Terry Francona, handled adroitly.

These are things that professional athletes should be able to handle in stride. I'm not a Bobby V fan, but the players come off way worse here than he does. Buster Olney was right btw.

[SoxScout]

Pedroia is coming across as an epic douchebag this season.

[sachilles]

"...texting on behalf of himself and some other players."

Worst part of the whole thing. Text messages are the sally way out. Pick up the phone or, better yet, go knock on a door. I can't stand Valentine, but they are actually making me take his side.

My understanding is that Henry communicates this way more often than not.

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

You're assuming Valentine isn't the source that sold-out his nemeses to make them look selfish?

Hmmm... fair point

At this point I really don't know what the solution is here. Clearly just getting rid of Valentine isn't the answer. The ownership group will be burned in the streets if they blow it up entirely but Cherington (if he's still around) is going to have to man up and make some tough decisions about key players.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Use whatever analogy you want. High school kids picking on the substitute. Inmates running the asylum. Toddlers over-running the daycare center. It's embarrassing.

While I would, like everyone else, like to see that photo of Pedroia and Valentine, boy does it make me sad. That's just not the way professionals behave. Maybe V brought some of it on himself, but my goodness the players look like little children here.

Texting ownership to complain about the manager? Because he left his #1 starter in too long? Shameful.

[LesterFan]

Valentine uttering "Nice inning, kid" to rookie third baseman Will Middlebrooks after he made a defensive blunder

How is anyone supposed to like playing for this guy?

[Hendu's Gait]

I'm in the minority here and view this like a much larger and worse Manny situation. You can expect the player(s) to be the child. It is imperative upon the management, both in uniform and in dress clothes, to be the grown-ups.

Why are people expecting people that play a game for a living to not behave like [spoiled] children?

I agree with RHF.

Edited by Hendu's Gait, 14 August 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[mauidano]

FFS people; like him or not; Bobby V is NOT going anywhere this season. And Tito ain't walking through that door. Get over it. How soon you forget in this business, it's "What Have You Done For Me Lately?" Tito wasn't exactly driving the bus his last two seasons before he jumped underneath it. So Bobby didn't lead the team to the Promised Land. There is plenty of blame to share and it's easy to point to someone else. Man up or shut up. In actuality, Gonzo is the only one who stepped up and vocally took some responsibility for the first half. He then has proceeded to "put up". Everyone else? Not so much.

So, these selfish players should just shut up and play for themselves since they obviously don't care about the team and a fair amount of them will be elsewhere in 2013. Losing will still suck when they're playing in Houston next year.

[BoSoxFink]

Pedroia is coming across as an epic douchebag this season.

This, he has been my favorite player but man he is being an epic douche bag this season. We all get it and probably agree, we do not like Bobby V and do not want him here, but he is still your boss! I hate to say anything nice about Derek Jeter ever at all, but you know you would never hear something about him like this with a Yankees manager no matter who it is.

Edited by BoSoxFink, 14 August 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[Hendu's Gait]

Pedroia is coming across as an epic douchebag this season.

They took away his parents/best friend (Tito) and his teddybear (winning, positivity) this year, his behavior is not surprising to me.

[mauidano]

Pedroia is coming across as an epic douchebag this season.

If there is a picture of him as described above and it comes out, there will be a shot to his character he will not quickly recover from.

[norm from cheers]

why is this breaking now?

[RedOctober3829]

Pedroia is coming across as an epic douchebag this season.

I agree.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Because Shoppach just told someone?

[Toe Nash]

How is anyone supposed to like playing for this guy?

We already went over this. It was early in the season and was meant to lighten the mood for WMB. WMB didn't even remember it. It was another player who had overheard it who whined about it to the media.

[jsinger121]

How is anyone supposed to like playing for this guy?

Because its their fucking job and maybe they should take pride in it regardless who the boss is. There are millions of people who hate their bosses but don't tank the way this team has this year. Fuck all of these players that don't want to play for Valentine.

[Jinhocho]

The Red Sox's tumultuous year started with their collapse last September, followed by the team declining to re-sign Francona. After general manager Theo Epstein left to run the Chicago Cubs, Cherington, one of his assistants, took control of the team – until Lucchino wrested the managerial hire from him. Ownership picked Valentine and Cherington rubber-stamped it, hopeful the organization could grow cohesive over the two-year span of Valentine's contract.
Instead, the Red Sox have splintered, not a shock considering Valentine's history of divide-and-conquer management. For all of his supposed strategic genius, Valentine wore out his welcome managing the Texas Rangers and New York Mets because of his willingness to napalm personal relationships. It led to a decade-long exile from the major leagues, most of which he spent in Japan.

To me this says it all.

Lucchino muscles in on Cherington hires his guy in an about face cementing his boss role in now in baseball operations. Cherington has no choice to go alone - new hire, semi-absent owners, saw Theo eventually win a struggle like this, wtf is he going to do quit? They hire a a guy you can put napalm and personal relationships into. This is bookended by a sentence that speaks of a divide and conquer management style and decade long exile in Japan.

That, my friends, is your Boston Red Sox and why Bobby V will never ever ever work here or likely anywhere in the majors as a successful manager.

[Captaincoop]

Just go ahead and nuke this roster. If we're going to watch one of the worst teams in the American League, can we at least root for some guys who aren't insufferable jerks? This is the most unlikeable Red Sox team ever, which is saying a lot because there have been some bad ones in the past.

[Stu Nahan]

Seeing as how the roster is what it is until the season ends, is there any real downside to firing Valentine today? The gamble to hire him turned out to be a miserable failure. If Tito got canned for essentially, by his own admission, losing the locker room, why wouldn't they fire Valentine for the exact same reason? The hows and whys of this whole mess can be rehashed in the offseason. Roll the dice that firing him will spark the team. I place the chances of this team making any sort of a run at basically zero. It's clear that they are completely zero with Bobby in charge.

[Ed Hillel]

Pedroia is coming across as an epic douchebag this season.

Not as much as Valentine is coming across as completely incompetent, oblivious, and self-centered.

This, he has been my favorite player this year but man he is being an epic douche bag this season. We all get it and probably agree, we do not like Bobby V and do not want him here, but he is still your boss! I hate to say anything nice about Derek Jeter ever at all, but you know you would never hear something about him like this with a Yankees manager no matter who it is.

Eh, at least he and some others went to ownership, rather than the media, to air his grievances. The same can't be said of the guy they're criticizing.

We already went over this. It was early in the season and was meant to lighten the mood for WMB. WMB didn't even remember it. It was another player who had overheard it who whined about it to the media.

Wasn't it Bobby V who whined about it to the media?

Edited by Ed Hillel, 14 August 2012 - 03:45 PM.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I understand the notion that they "quit" on Francona and got him fired, but I don't think they were actively trying to get him fired. I think the players liked Francona, liked his style, liked to play for him. But they took him for granted, abused him, and he subsequently was jettisoned. So I disagree with the idea that they're contradicting themselves now with their complaints about Bobby V.

The players stopped listening to him, stopped taking him and his rules seriously and blatantly started ignoring him. That's the passive aggressive way of getting someone fired. Now they're going out of their way to let everyone know how unhappy they are and are texting the owners.

I'd have more respect for the ownership if they texted back to Pedroia and Gonzalez: "LOL, Boo Hoo"