141 replies to this topic

[Corsi]

The Boston #RedSox today traded catcher Kelly Shoppach to the New York Mets in exchange for a player to be named later.

https://twitter.com/...440175285669890

[Return of the Dewey]

Sign that white flag is being raised with more trades to come?

[Yazdog8]

More PT for Lavarnway. Time to see if the kid has enough to stick in the bigs as a ML catcher.

I'm guessing the PTBNL is a middle reliever? #badbentradejoke

[SMU_Sox]

Sign that white flag is being raised with more trades to come?

They needed to make a roster move for Bailey. Maybe this is it. I wouldn't read much more into it than that - it's Shoppach, our 3rd C now, not Beckett.

[sachilles]

Allows them to keep Lavarnway on the Major league roster, and frees a spot for Bailey?

[Rudy Pemberton]

Sounds to me like they probably just wanted to get rid of the clubhouse lawyer, and open up playing time for Lavarnway, which is the right move. For the Mets, I assume they just want some depth and hope to finish .500? They've been brutal at the position, but they clearly aren't contenders. Can't imagine the Sox got much of value.

[mauidano]

Whatever. This is a good move. The clubhouse lawyer will now take his legal practice to the Big Apple. No surprise on a number of fronts.

[TomRicardo]

The real question is why the Mets made this trade. And why did a team like the Nationals not step in

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

Sign that white flag is being raised with more trades to come?

Not necessarily the white flag seeing as they have a pretty redundant piece with more upside under team control (Lavarnway).... It's just getting something for a guy who's contract is up and will walk away next year anyway.

Plus it gets the wise cracking sour puss out of the clubhouse.

[E5 Yaz]

The real question is why the Mets made this trade. And why did a team like the Nationals not step in

Nats traded for Suzuki

AdamRubinESPN Adam Rubin
Not sure what a team 9.5 out in the wild card is doing acquiring player who'll be free agent at end of season, but that's just negativity.

[mt8thsw9th]

it's Shoppach, our 3rd C now

Shoppach was the backup. Lavarnway caught one game and was used in his best role in most of his appearances, DH.

[Return of the Dewey]

Not necessarily the white flag seeing as they have a pretty redundant piece with more upside under team control (Lavarnway).... It's just getting something for a guy who's contract is up and will walk away next year anyway.

Plus it gets the wise cracking sour puss out of the clubhouse.

Yeah, I guess wishful thinking on my part.

[Greg29fan]

Thanks for the memories Shop -

[Corsi]

The real question is why the Mets made this trade. And why did a team like the Nationals not step in

The Mets tweet makes it sound like they claimed him on waivers and we worked out a trade, not that he cleared outright.

#Mets moves: Claim catcher Kelly Shoppach on a waiver claim from the Boston Red Sox for a player to be named later.

https://twitter.com/...439420977852417

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Calling it now: this is going to end up a simple roster-space dump, while BennyC could have gotten something relatively interesting for Shoppach two weeks ago.

[TomRicardo]

Hey he couldn't figure out how to add another middle reliever to the roster.

[bloodysox]

Lawyered

[JakeRae]

Shoppach was the backup. Lavarnway caught one game and was used in his best role in most of his appearances, DH.

This is probably why Shoppach was traded. If Cherrington believes Lavarnway should be catching and Valentine wasn't using him as a catcher, the easiest way to force his hand is to get rid of the other option.

[SouthernBoSox]

Calling it now: this is going to end up a simple roster-space dump, while BennyC could have gotten something relatively interesting for Shoppach two weeks ago.

Yep. Timing is everything, and we suck at timing. Would we have gotten a good prospect for Shoppach? No probably not, but we could have at least gotten some sort of flier. This will be nothing.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

Hey BenC could still get a AAAA utility infielder who can't hit and who had a good season once 2 or 3 years ago..... The Mets are loaded in that regard

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Hey he couldn't figure out how to add another middle reliever to the roster.

If Bailey isn't closing, he's got it down pat.

[yecul]

They won't get anything in return. They wouldn't have gotten anything a couple weeks ago. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have just done this a couple weeks ago...

Waffling. Uncertainty. No overall plan. What do those add up to? Huge 100 win 2013 season!

[E5 Yaz]

If Bailey isn't closing, he's got it down pat.

Even if he is, Aceves moves down the food chain

[Corsi]

I thought Wilpon already settled the Madoff suit.

[mauidano]

At least he'll still get his World Series share and ring from the Red Sox for 2012.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

They won't get anything in return. They wouldn't have gotten anything a couple weeks ago. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have just done this a couple weeks ago...

A good GM could have gotten an interesting player for Salty one month ago, or a lottery ticket for Shoppach two weeks ago. In either case, space for Lavarnway would have been cleared for something more useful to the organization long-term than the inevitable "cash considerations" gained now.

BennyC appears to have all the negotiating ability of my 7-year old nephew trading pokemon cards.

[Lose Remerswaal]

I assume we're paying 90% of Shoppach's remaining contract.

[yecul]

The optics of being a seller at the trade deadline vs a waiver trade are pretty different I imagine.

It's hard to say... either they were uncertain of his value, uncertain of Lavarnway's value/role, uncertain of their season's prospects or they had marketing interests in mind.

Did the market not materialize until right now? I don't find that credible. I disagree that they could have gotten a return at any point, but why make a move now and not before?

This could all be fairly innocuous and have a nice explanation, but at first glance the timing and type of move don't suggest some sort of overall plan, direction or understanding/confidence in the team's make-up. Even if you thought you were in it two weeks ago a trade of Shoppach with Lavarnway as a replacement is hardly any sort of a punt.

[TheoShmeo]

Can someone elaborate a bit on the Shoppach as clubhouse lawyer?

[gammoseditor]

I assume we're paying 90% of Shoppach's remaining contract.

Well they claimed him on waivers and we could have let him go without paying him another dime, so I doubt it.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Can someone elaborate a bit on the Shoppach as clubhouse lawyer?

Came out in one of the Bobby V topics. Apparently Valentine didn't like Shoppach because he complained about playing time and was a "clubhouse lawyer," whatever that's supposed to mean.

[SoxScout]

Can someone elaborate a bit on the Shoppach as clubhouse lawyer?

On the morning of the deadline: http://sonsofsamhorn...24#entry4262824

Also,

DKnobler: Bobby V preferred Lavarnway to Shoppach as far back as spring training. It took a while, but now he gets his way.

Edited by SoxScout, 14 August 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Can't figure this from the Mets' side. They're out of it, why get Shoppach now?

I guess we're gonna see if Lavarnway can stick with the big club. He's been unimpressive so far this year, but his playing time has been sporadic and microscopic. He just got a defensive award for his work in Pawtucket, it will be interesting to see if that carries over to The Show.

[Bowlerman9]

Can't figure this from the Mets' side. They're out of it, why get Shoppach now?

I guess we're gonna see if Lavarnway can stick with the big club. He's been unimpressive so far this year, but his playing time has been sporadic and microscopic. He just got a defensive award for his work in Pawtucket, it will be interesting to see if that carries over to The Show.

They have some young pitchers and two no-hit (2 HR, combined, in 2012), poor defensive catchers. So they want a guy like Shoppach around. Makes sense to me.

[AB in DC]

I think JakeRae had it right -- the front office wants to give Lavarnway some big-league experience, but Bobby V doesn't seem to trust him behind the plate yet.

[someoneanywhere]

Can someone elaborate a bit on the Shoppach as clubhouse lawyer?

You're not asking out of professional curiosity, I hope.

Shop has a rep, which certainly predates Valentine's time, although I'm sure the latter was still plugged in enough to know the rep when he became manager. If you remember your Varitek stories, for instance, you remember that Shop felt that Tek didn't really do anything to help him, and said so while others praised Tek for his selflessness.

For those not in the know, a clubhouse lawyer can be a number of things, but generally is catch all for shitkicker, pot-stirrer, or, to be more metaphorically consistent, ambulance chaser. Complaints seem to originate with these guys, or at least go through them -- and when no one's griping, the idea is that the clubhouse lawyer will chase up some business one way or the other. Have no clue whether Shop is actually one of them, only that Valentine is not the only one who feels that way about him.

Edited by someoneanywhere, 14 August 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

They have some young pitchers and two no-hit (2 HR, combined, in 2012), poor defensive catchers. So they want a guy like Shoppach around. Makes sense to me.

His contract is over at the end of this season. Is being a Met for 6 weeks really going to make that much of a difference?

[Corsi]

Lavarnway behind the dish tonight.

[mauidano]

Really is do or die time in the next month for Lavarnway. Hope they take the diapers off and he gets some AB's. Up until now, he has shown very little at the plate for a guy that was tearing it up in AAA. I get the "defensive star" label. But at this point of the season if he's striking out as much as Salty he ain't helping. At least Salty has a little pop in his bat.

Edited by mauidano, 14 August 2012 - 02:32 PM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

His contract is over at the end of this season. Is being a Met for 6 weeks really going to make that much of a difference?

I think the Mets goals are different than the Sox; they would probably benefit a lot more from finishing strong and having a .500 season. Perhaps they want to keep him around next year too, and think that a few months in NY would help that happen? Assume the cost is so low that it's a worthwhile move for them.

[foulkehampshire]

Really is do or die time in the next month for Lavarnway. Hope they take the diapers off and he gets some AB's. Up until now, he has shown very little at the plate for a guy that was tearing it up in AAA. I get the "defensive star" label. But at this point of the season if he's striking out as much as Salty he ain't helping. At least Salty has a little pop in his bat.

20 AB isn't really a big enough sample size to make any kind of judgement.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Really is do or die time in the next month for Lavarnway. Hope they take the diapers off and he gets some AB's. Up until now, he has shown very little at the plate for a guy that was tearing it up in AAA. I get the "defensive star" label. But at this point of the season if he's striking out as much as Salty he ain't helping. At least Salty has a little pop in his bat.

Yes. You're absolutely right. It's just as much do-or-die time for Lavarnway as it was for Pedroia in 2006.

[E5 Yaz]

I think JakeRae had it right -- the front office wants to give Lavarnway some big-league experience, but Bobby V doesn't seem to trust him behind the plate yet.

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo
Yes, Bobby V wanted to play Lavarnway, which made Shoppach an outsider.

[mauidano]

20 AB isn't really a big enough sample size to make any kind of judgement.

If you play for the Boston Red Sox it is.

[foulkehampshire]

If you play for the Boston Red Sox it is.

Care to further explain that? I'm not following you.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo
Yes, Bobby V wanted to play Lavarnway, which made Shoppach an outsider.

Ah, a one-sided trade driven by BobbyV's preferences. Wouldn't have seen that coming.

[JakeRae]

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo
Yes, Bobby V wanted to play Lavarnway, which made Shoppach an outsider.

This is not exactly what I was saying, because this makes no sense. He is the manager. If he wants to play a player more who is on his roster, he should just do it. He doesn't need the GM to get rid of the player who will be losing playing time first. Still, it'll be good to see Lavarnway get more time behind the plate. With his offense and the fact that his defense has gone from the scouting world thinking he had no shot of his sticking at catcher to his winning Best Defensive Catcher for the IL in BA's minor league tools report this year (information acquired secondhand through SoxProspects landing page as the original article is behind a paywall), he's become a very exciting prospect.

[SMU_Sox]

If you play for the Boston Red Sox it is.

For who? The fans who don't know any better? What exactly is your point? Because making a mountain out of a 20 AB molehill puts the 'ass' in asinine (pardon the terrible pub).

[E5 Yaz]

This is not exactly what I was saying, because this makes no sense. He is the manager. If he wants to play a player more who is on his roster, he should just do it. He doesn't need the GM to get rid of the player who will be losing playing time first. Still, it'll be good to see Lavarnway get more time behind the plate. With his offense and the fact that his defense has gone from the scouting world thinking he had no shot of his sticking at catcher to his winning Best Defensive Catcher for the IL in BA's minor league tools report this year (information acquired secondhand through SoxProspects landing page as the original article is behind a paywall), he's become a very exciting prospect.

I agree that we should have higher hopes for him with his apparent defensive improvement. I posted the Gammons tweet in response to someone else saying that the only way the front office could get BV to play him was to trade Shoppach. I don't think that's the case.

[trekfan55]

For some unknown reason, the team was carrying 3 catchers and a short bullpen. Shoppach being claimed by the Mets fixes this, as he will be replaced by Bailey.