20 replies to this topic

[SoxLegacy]

Yes, I know that the title to the thread is from Fever Pitch, and that most Sox fans tolerate/dislike/hate/loath the movie for a variety of reasons, but it makes a great title for this thread. (Having just visited Fenway and Boston for the first time, we’ve been watching movies set in Boston, and it was interesting to see that Fallon’s character lived near (or above) Bova’s Bakery in the North End. On our trip, we visited Bova’s and had some delicious biscotti!)

In a reply I posted in Rovin’s “When do you throw in the towel” thread, I mentioned that I had been feeling miserable about the Red Sox this year. Since that post, I have been thinking about my attachment to the Sox, why I feel the way I do, and why the Sox (or any other team for that matter) have such a hold on so many people.

I grew up with the Sox, starting back in ’75, and have followed them through thick and thin since. There have been up years, down years, heartbreaking losses and incredible, historic wins. This year stinks, hopefully next year will be better, but I’ll still be a Sox fan no matter what. But why? They don’t pay me, and I don’t really derive any tangible benefit or detriment if they win or lose. Despite that, I am happy (for lack of a better term) when they win, and bummed when they lose. I still remember walking into a Home Depot the day after the 2004 ALCS ended, wearing my Red Sox hat, and seeing another guy with a Sox cap on as well. We just both broke into grins.

So, why do we care about the Red Sox? Or sports teams in general? I really don’t know the answer, and figured I’d see what the good folks at SoSH think.

Edited by SoxLegacy, 10 August 2012 - 01:57 PM.

[RedSoxinSeattle]

Baseball teams are passed down from father to son, father or mother to daugter or son I guess IMO. My sister is also a huge Sox fan as are both my parents. I would say that every conversation I have with my father from April until October includes some reference to the Red Sox since I left for college. Also if you lived in Boston and moved far away (my parents) then the Red Sox become your memory of that aspect of your life in my opinion. For my parents it's college and their first half decade of marriage. My grandfather was also a sox fan so my dad liked them before that but I think this is part of it. Also when I was a kid growing up in Portland, Oregon it was a situation where there were no other Sox fans. I mean you go up to Seattle to watch them play the Mariners there were like 15 people you would see. Now it's much different but when I was a kid it felt like a Red Sox where are thing and it was part of our identity that made us special as a family.

[guido57]

We've all heard this about another great American icon, Harley-Davidson:" If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand ".

[sox sufferer]

If you're a baseball fan from the northeast you're probably a Red Sox fan. Frustration for many fans this year, but we still love 'em.

[Wilco's Last Fan]

As fans (and especially as fans of teams that have brought us tons of both overwhelming joy and heartbreaking defeat) we walk an interesting psychological tightrope. When the Celtics lost in 2010, when the Patriots lost in February, and now with the Red Sox a mess, I find myself more willing to take a step back and say "It's only sports...the athletes you're rooting for don't even know you, and their performance doesn't affect your life at all."

By contrast, when our teams win, I find myself embracing their players as if their achievements had something to do with me (and the players themselves promulgate that belief with statements like "we couldn't have done it without the fans," etc). I feel like the 2001 Patriots BELONG to me in some special way, as do the 2004 Red Sox, 2008 Celtics, 2011 Bruins, and so forth.

In the reactionary realm of sports fandom, it's hard to make like the Buddha and find the Middle Way.

Edited by Wilco's Last Fan, 10 August 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[SoxLegacy]

We've all heard this about another great American icon, Harley-Davidson:" If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand ".

While this is true, it also doesn't attempt to explain the hold that sports teams in general and the Red Sox in particular have on us. My point is that I would like to understand....

[SoxLegacy]

Baseball teams are passed down from father to son, father or mother to daugter or son I guess IMO. My sister is also a huge Sox fan as are both my parents. I would say that every conversation I have with my father from April until October includes some reference to the Red Sox since I left for college. Also if you lived in Boston and moved far away (my parents) then the Red Sox become your memory of that aspect of your life in my opinion. For my parents it's college and their first half decade of marriage. My grandfather was also a sox fan so my dad liked them before that but I think this is part of it. Also when I was a kid growing up in Portland, Oregon it was a situation where there were no other Sox fans. I mean you go up to Seattle to watch them play the Mariners there were like 15 people you would see. Now it's much different but when I was a kid it felt like a Red Sox where are thing and it was part of our identity that made us special as a family.

Definitely true here. As I wrote in my Lurker intro, I grew up in northern NJ, and my Dad was a NY Giants fan. When they left for San Fran, he had an epiphany and started to follow the Red Sox. I got my love of the game and the Sox from him, and now my younger son is playing ball and is a Sox fan too. Definitely rewarding!

In the reactionary realm of sports fandom, it's hard to make like the Buddha and find the Middle Way.

Wilco--I love that!

[SamK]

I hate the way this organization treats its valuable resources. Look at what John and especially Larry does to EVERY guy that leaves town. The way they treated Terri at the end is unforgivable. When they finally build the best manager in franchise history a statue and wash it with John Henry's repentant tears, then I might come back. But until then you all can have my seats. I have exercised Fan Free Agency. Screw Larry Luchino. There is ONE resource he can't dump on. Me. I still follow baseball, but only look at the Red Sox as some kind of freakish farm system for my new team to potentially raid.

Edited by SamK, 11 August 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[SoxLegacy]

I hate the way this organization treats its valuable resources. Look at what John and especially Larry does to EVERY guy that leaves town. The way they treated Terri at the end is unforgivable. When they finally build the best manager in franchise history a statue and wash it with John Henry's repentant tears, then I might come back. But until then you all can have my seats. I have exercised Fan Free Agency. Screw Larry Luchino. There is ONE resource he can't dump on. Me. I still follow baseball, but only look at the Red Sox as some kind of feakish farm system for my new team to potentially raid.

Thanks for contributing to the thread...

Edited by SoxLegacy, 11 August 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[SamK]

Legacy, I appreciate your starting a thread about fandom and the human heart. I am troubled that when a fan with a broken heart risks "contributing" to it, you respond with sarcasm.

Here is more contribution: Nomar, Manny, Youk; do you think they are rooting for the current ownership group? Do you think that guys that you and I screamed our lungs out for feel like Boston was a nice place to work?
I get that most of us still root for whoever puts on a Red Sox costume (that's what your current manager called it this spring, I heard him with my own ears). I don't look down at anyone for staying "true"

But you asked, why do we do that? I am trying to point out that we don't have to. Where is a real sports story that can transport me? Cody Ross? Yeh. Middlebrooks? Maybe. But, maybe its somewhere else.
And that's where my heart (and its dollars) will be--At least until I can get over being this pissed off at what they did to our team AND they stop doing it.

[SoxLegacy]

Legacy, I appreciate your starting a thread about fandom and the human heart. I am troubled that when a fan with a broken heart risks "contributing" to it, you respond with sarcasm.

Here is more contribution: Nomar, Manny, Youk; do you think they are rooting for the current ownership group? Do you think that guys that you and I screamed our lungs out for feel like Boston was a nice place to work?
I get that most of us still root for whoever puts on a Red Sox costume (that's what your current manager called it this spring, I heard him with my own ears). I don't look down at anyone for staying "true"

But you asked, why do we do that? I am trying to point out that we don't have to. Where is a real sports story that can transport me? Cody Ross? Yeh. Middlebrooks? Maybe. But, maybe its somewhere else.
And that's where my heart (and its dollars) will be--At least until I can get over being this pissed off at what they did to our team AND they stop doing it.

SamK, your original post really wasn't about why we root for the Sox or any other team, it was an angry diatribe against the team. That may have made you feel good (and I am being serious) but it wasn't what I was hoping for in response to my original post, hence my reply.

If you no longer want to be a fan of the Red Sox, that's your choice and I hope you pick a team that rewards you in some way. My original question still stands--why do we care? If you start following the Belchertown Burpers of the East Appalachian League, and ride the emotions up and down, why?

PS--If you are pissed at Henry and Co. for the current disaster, what did you think of them in 2004 and 2007? And BV is not "my" manager--he manages the Red Sox. I don't work for the team.

Edited by SoxLegacy, 11 August 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[HurstSoGood]

Right, wrong or indifferent, baseball represents one of the few positive memories of my relationship with my father growing up. The hours and hours of playing catch, him hitting me grounders and pop-ups, etc. and trying to help me maximize my potential as a player. I remember my first time going to Fenway, on a school bus (local bus trip), which was huge for me because we lived in Maine and werent made of money. It was magical, emotionally intoxicating and exhausting. I was completely smitten with Lynn and Rice. My dad taught me how to keep the book. I got an ice cream in a little Sox helmet and a hot dog. The stadium, the lights, the players in their pro uniforms...the atmosphere...smells, sounds, the "plain" green monster... We got back home at what seemed 3am. Now it seems like a dream. But the Red Sox were my dad's team and they have always been mine.

I love baseball, both playing and watching. My rotator cuff is in shambles. I could give 2 shits about "management" and their pink hat marketing. When my daughters got Sox gear, it was traditional garb only (purchased in spite of what and how my now-cynical brain processes fan-hood).

Hannibal Lecter would probably respond by asking you "what do you covet, Sox Legacy?" We covet that which we see every day. It is a feeling of inclusion and commonality and acceptance.

[SoxLegacy]

Right, wrong or indifferent, baseball represents one of the few positive memories of my relationship with my father growing up. The hours and hours of playing catch, him hitting me grounders and pop-ups, etc. and trying to help me maximize my potential as a player. I remember my first time going to Fenway, on a school bus (local bus trip), which was huge for me because we lived in Maine and werent made of money. It was magical, emotionally intoxicating and exhausting. I was completely smitten with Lynn and Rice. My dad taught me how to keep the book. I got an ice cream in a little Sox helmet and a hot dog. The stadium, the lights, the players in their pro uniforms...the atmosphere...smells, sounds, the "plain" green monster... We got back home at what seemed 3am. Now it seems like a dream. But the Red Sox were my dad's team and they have always been mine.

I love baseball, both playing and watching. My rotator cuff is in shambles. I could give 2 shits about "management" and their pink hat marketing. When my daughters got Sox gear, it was traditional garb only (purchased in spite of what and how my now-cynical brain processes fan-hood).

Hannibal Lecter would probably respond by asking you "what do you covet, Sox Legacy?" We covet that which we see every day. It is a feeling of inclusion and commonality and acceptance.

Terrific response--thanks for sharing it! Having been to Fenway for the first time this summer, it really was amazing. And to "see" it through the eyes of my kids was even better. At some point during the game, my son who is a Sox fan turned to me and said something along the lines of "I can't believe we're really here at Fenway" with a huge smile on his face.

Thanks for the insight on why we are fans--definitely somethings to ponder there.

[Coachster]

This is what being a Red Sox fan is: We're part of something larger than ourselves and our families. The five years I lived in Manhattan, I always wore my Sox cap; on the subway, at Yankee Stadium when I got to see the MFY play a third team. I remember being on the subway in October of 2003; a guy makes eye contact with me, points to my hat, and says, "John Burkett?" He didn't need to say anything else. An entire SOSH thread of why we're starting this guy in the most important playoff game of the year passed between us in those two words.

In my mind, the thing the Sox did right for fans was in the rebuilding of Fenway. I'm from Southern California, and grew up rooting for the Angels. I went back for my high school reunion this summer, and had no desire to go to Edison Field. It's just a ballpark.

Fenway is our clubhouse.

[sox sufferer]

Yes, I agree that Fenway Park is special. The history and the feeling that you get just by walking into the place. Magical. I'm grateful for this ownership that they spruced the place up instead of building a new ballpark somewhere else. Other teams can have their new modern state-of-the art stadium, I will take Fenway over them anytime.

[Bone Chips]

Depends who the "they" is. In my opinion this is the most interesting question in the discussion. For me the "Red Sox" is nothing more than the fans, and the allegiance we have with each other. It's not the players, the franchise or the laundry. The players and the owners could give two shits about us. With the exception of a very select few (I've only met one, and that is Justin Masterson) the players are out-of-touch, selfish prima-donnas. And the owners are condescending vultures looking to make a buck at every turn.

I feel the true essence of being a Red Sox fan when I'm traveling on a road trip with the team, wearing my colors, and I spot another Sox fan in a remote section of the city and we instantly strike up a conversation. It's almost like my religion (Catholic). I go to church because of the communal aspect. I don't necessarily like my Priest, and I have a lot of issues with the tenents of my religion, but I like the feeling I get from the congregation. This is why I always say that being a Sox fan is like a religion. And in this respect the Sox always love me back.

[SamK]

The night that Buchholz threw the no hitter was like that. In the sixth inning fans in our section were starting to make eye contact with each other and chin-nods toward the score board. As we got closer we discovered less and less clever ways of saying "Hey, we might be watching a no-hitter" without jinxing it (superstition contains sort of the magic of religion), and when it was in the books, no one wanted to leave the park. We just stood around, slapping each other on the back, laughing and smiling with other-wise strangers.

Another important point you make, Bone Chips, is the use of pronouns. Fellow Bay Stater Emerson says "Language is always wise." How often do we say "We won." Or "We stunk at the plate last night." Especially when the emotions are still fresh; the line between some kids out on the field and our own sense of identity blurs.

And further blurring "part and partical" of each of us as descrete individual is the sense of connection through time. (We cite history, tradition and (pardon) legacy); and relatedly our connection to each of our family lines.

One of my favorite memories of my father was a debate we had about one of George Scott's attempted comebacks. We were sitting on the first baseline so I could better see my favorite player on defense, too. Scott had been struggling a bit at the plate. He had just walked and, trying to be optimistic, I said "That's OK, at least the next guy has a chance now." Dad said, "Son, they call him 'Boomer' 'cause he hits 'taters. They don't pay the man to walk." It was the first time I remember trying to talk baseball like a grown-up; and we were both sort of right.

The current club had a George Scott appreciation night recently, so (grumbling begrudgingly) there's (loving me back) that.

Edited by SamK, 13 August 2012 - 04:45 AM.

[SoxLegacy]

I feel the true essence of being a Red Sox fan when I'm traveling on a road trip with the team, wearing my colors, and I spot another Sox fan in a remote section of the city and we instantly strike up a conversation. It's almost like my religion (Catholic). I go to church because of the communal aspect. I don't necessarily like my Priest, and I have a lot of issues with the tenents of my religion, but I like the feeling I get from the congregation. This is why I always say that being a Sox fan is like a religion. And in this respect the Sox always love me back.

Bone Chips--outstanding! I love the Catholic analogy and being one myself, wholeheartedly agree with your points about both the Church and the Sox. I also like the refernence to spotting a fellow fan. When we were in Boston, everywhere we went we saw Sox colors. Here at home in Maryland, not so much, so it makes it easier to spot a Sox fan, and the conversation that results is usually always good.

Yes, I agree that Fenway Park is special. The history and the feeling that you get just by walking into the place. Magical. I'm grateful for this ownership that they spruced the place up instead of building a new ballpark somewhere else. Other teams can have their new modern state-of-the art stadium, I will take Fenway over them anytime.

Agree here as well. While I am sure there are negatives about the place, Fenway, with all it's history, is magical. And they seem to have done a superb job in updating it. One of the things I noticed was that the crowd was very focused on the game--it was why everyone showed up. That is not the same as in other parks I have been to, where it seems like the game is secondary to all the other things going on.

I remember being on the subway in October of 2003; a guy makes eye contact with me, points to my hat, and says, "John Burkett?" He didn't need to say anything else. An entire SOSH thread of why we're starting this guy in the most important playoff game of the year passed between us in those two words.
.
Fenway is our clubhouse.

This is awesome--can definitely relate! I like your idea about Fenway being the clubhouse.

Thanks for contributing! You have given me some good insights!

[SoxLegacy]

The night that Buchholz threw the no hitter was like that. In the sixth inning fans in our section were starting to make eye contact with each other and chin-nods toward the score board. As we got closer we discovered less and less clever ways of saying "Hey, we might be watching a no-hitter" without jinxing it (superstition contains sort of the magic of religion), and when it was in the books, no one wanted to leave the park. We just stood around, slapping each other on the back, laughing and smiling with other-wise strangers.

Another important point you make, Bone Chips, is the use of pronouns. Fellow Bay Stater Emerson says "Language is always wise." How often do we say "We won." Or "We stunk at the plate last night." Especially when the emotions are still fresh; the line between some kids out on the field and our own sense of identity blurs.

And further blurring "part and partical" of each of us as descrete individual is the sense of connection through time. (We cite history, tradition and (pardon) legacy); and relatedly our connection to each of our family lines.

One of my favorite memories of my father was a debate we had about one of George Scott's attempted comebacks. We were sitting on the first baseline so I could better see my favorite player on defense, too. Scott had been struggling a bit at the plate. He had just walked and, trying to be optimistic, I said "That's OK, at least the next guy has a chance now." Dad said, "Son, they call him 'Boomer' 'cause he hits 'taters. They don't pay the man to walk." It was the first time I remember trying to talk baseball like a grown-up; and we were both sort of right.

The current club had a George Scott appreciation night recently, so (grumbling begrudgingly) there's (loving me back) that.

Good stuff here--love the Buchholz story and your story with your Dad. Iwas too young to see Boomer with his first time with the Sox, but remember his second go round. I can still see his Milwaukee and Boston cards in my mind

[Papo The Snow Tiger]

Depends who the "they" is. In my opinion this is the most interesting question in the discussion. For me the "Red Sox" is nothing more than the fans, and the allegiance we have with each other. It's not the players, the franchise or the laundry. The players and the owners could give two shits about us. With the exception of a very select few (I've only met one, and that is Justin Masterson) the players are out-of-touch, selfish prima-donnas. And the owners are condescending vultures looking to make a buck at every turn.

I feel the true essence of being a Red Sox fan when I'm traveling on a road trip with the team, wearing my colors, and I spot another Sox fan in a remote section of the city and we instantly strike up a conversation. It's almost like my religion (Catholic). I go to church because of the communal aspect. I don't necessarily like my Priest, and I have a lot of issues with the tenents of my religion, but I like the feeling I get from the congregation. This is why I always say that being a Sox fan is like a religion. And in this respect the Sox always love me back.

This sums it up perfectly for me. I live in central Connecticut, and I can still remember going for a walk a couple of hours just before game 6 of the 2004 ALCS. Naturally I was wearing my colors, a Red Sox hat and jacket. Some guy I'd never seen before or since was heading in the opposite direction, wearing Red Sox stuff. Without breaking stride we high fived each other as we passed. I can also remember my 90+ year old Aunt Mary, a HUGE Red Sox fan, calling me three times after midnight; once after game 7 of the ALCS in 2003, after game 7 of the 2004 ALCS and after they won it all in 2004. This is enough for me to say the Red Sox have loved me back.

Edited by Papo The Snow Tiger, 13 August 2012 - 07:51 PM.

[SoxLegacy]

Papo, those are two great stories--especially the one with your aunt--so good that she was able to see the Sox win a Series! Thanks for contributing--I really think that bonechips hit the target dead on with the religion analogy. Over the last few days, I have thought about my history of rooting for the Sox and the connections we feel to the team and to each other and it really is an amazing thing.