127 replies to this topic

[Lose Remerswaal]

Looks like he'll need some AA to go along with the Tommy John recovery


Article quotes Haggerty as saying:

Like John Lackey, who apparently needs to travel with the team and work with trainer Mike Reinold while recovering from Tommy John surgery – a fairly standard rehab that literally thousands of pitchers have come back from stronger-than-ever over the last 30 years.

But for whatever reason, the underachieving righty needs to travel with the team even though he won’t be throwing even one measly pitch for them.

Lackey was so busted up after the latest defeat that he was strutting around the clubhouse with a can of Bud Light in each hand, or what is known as “double-fisting” on every college campus in the history of mankind.

[Joshv02]

I don't get the criticism of Lackey traveling with the team. Isn't that a good thing? Doesn't it show he is a team player? He wants to be with his teammates even when they aren't winning. That seems like a good thing. What could be wrong with it?

(Putting the Bud light thing aside, which really just shows the horrible taste he has.)

[Lose Remerswaal]

Traveling with the team is a good thing if he can help mentor some of the younger pitchers in a GOOD way. If he's there and is a distraction to the players (negative attitude, contradicting coaches, etc), then it's not a good thing at all.

[RedOctober3829]

He could be rehabbing back home. TJ rehab is standard practice these days and he doesn't have to be with Reinhold in order to do it. If he's going to be prancing around the clubhouse double-fisting beers, put him on a plane and go home.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I don't get the criticism of Lackey traveling with the team. Isn't that a good thing? Doesn't it show he is a team player? He wants to be with his teammates even when they aren't winning. That seems like a good thing. What could be wrong with it?

(Putting the Bud light thing aside, which really just shows the horrible taste he has.)

Yes and no, I guess. If he's just walking around pounding Bud Lites and is a general distraction to the pitching staff, then no, it's not a good thing at all. I'm not in the clubhouse and I don't know Lackey personally, but from all the reports that I hear is that he's a buffoon and a pain in the ass. And to be honest, seeing his stupid, bloated face on the bench laughing it up while the Sox are getting their asses kicked is just more salt in the wound.

If there is one person that I'd like to see cut from this team, it's Lackey. I don't even care about the money suck, they should just do it.

[TheShynessClinic]

Isn't there still a clubhouse ban on beer? I feel like I remember BobbyV implementing that in the offseason.

[Corsi]

Cafardo:

Red Sox players are allowed to drink beer AFTER the game on the road with their postgame meal. Not a big deal folks.

https://twitter.com/...927090137866241

Beer is banned from home clubhouse at Fenway and on returning charter flights. Red Sox don't control clubhouses in other cities.

https://twitter.com/...928993500459008

No wonder Lackey travels with the team. It's basically an open bar.

Edited by Corsi, 10 August 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[RedOctober3829]

Cafardo:
https://twitter.com/...927090137866241

https://twitter.com/...928993500459008

That shouldn't matter. PR-wise, how can he not know that double-fisting beers with media in the clubhouse isn't going to be turned into a story? He truly is clueless. This team is an absolute joke.

[Corsi]

That shouldn't matter. PR-wise, how can he not know that double-fisting beers with media in the clubhouse isn't going to be turned into a story? He truly is clueless. This team is an absolute joke.

Oh, I'm not defending him. If it was one beer, whatever, but double fisting is just shoving it in everyone's faces and trying to be an intentional shit-stirrer.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

The beer ban is only for the home clubhouse at Fenway, and the last leg of a road trip on the plane.

I'm sure it was implemented as an anti-DUI measure, regardless how classless a "rehabbing" pitcher double-fisting after a loss appears to the general public. But yeah, this is just another arrow for the quiver in which I keep my hate toward John Lackey.

[SeanBerry]

It's amazing how little awareness he has.

I really hate John Lackey. I'd love to hear more shitty stuff about him. How's his divorce from his his cancer ridden wife going? John Lackey is horrific. His face is the absolute worst.

Oh, and for those who are all pissy none of this has to with baseball, let's take a stroll down memory lane.

John Lackey has been paid around $43 million dollars by the Boston Red Sox over the past 2 2/3 seasons to date. He has provided them with 61 starts, a 5.26 ERA and an 83 ERA+. He has led the league in 2 categories in that time (Hit Batters and Earned Runs both in 2011), however both are considered negative categories. The Boston Red Sox about $51 million dollars and he could be in a Boston Red Sox uniform until the end of the 2015 season.

Fuck John Lackey. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck John Lackey. He is an awful baseball player. He is an awful person. He has an ugly face. I hate him so much.

[yecul]

Wait, Lackey has been traveling with the team and interacting with the players on a regular basis?

No wonder they suck.

In a bubble something like this or Beckett's comments after golfing or whatever else amount to very little. They can be seen as one-off incidents and dismissed. However, when combined with the over-arching narrative about this team and these players in particular and put in the context of their performance, condition, and health... let's say that picture is not pretty.

I have little hope of Lackey being a positive presence on the mound beyond being average/slightly below at best (which I would happily take), but he is guaranteed to be a negative off the field. Ditto Beckett. And perhaps even Lester, though given his age and higher potential ceiling I would be inclined to hope for the best from him and expect imrpovement.

Dump Beckett. Dump Lackey at your first chance. What's that, you have to pay a bunch of money and not get anything back? No problem. Addition by subtraction.

Lackey is the devil.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Wait, Lackey has been traveling with the team and interacting with the players on a regular basis?

No wonder they suck.

[Hokie Sox]

Did Red Sox starter Josh Beckett do everything he could to be in peak condition for his crucial start against the Texas Rangers in Wednesday's matinee at Fenway? Beckett was spotted belly-up-to-the-bar at the Beantown Pub on Tremont Steet until closing time, 2 a.m., Monday night. The Beantown Pub would not confirm that Beckett was in the establishment at the time reported.

http://bostondirtdog...e_as_the_o.html

This is out of control.

[smastroyin]

Yeah, let's also not forget that ever since the John Lackey signing we have had a lot of "well this couldn't get any worse" only to have it get worse.

In 60 years Dan Shaugnessey IV is going to make a killing selling books called Curse of the Stupidest Horse Auction in the History of Baseball.

[Rudy Pemberton]

It's amazing how little awareness he has.

I think he's aware, he just doesn't give a shit. He signed his contract, and is going to get paid, no matter what. They should really dump this clown in the off-season. Back to the Angels for Vernon Wells? To the Mets for Jason Bay?

[brs3]

I'd like to hear from the FO, or Bobby V, or teammates with names attached. Do they care? Is it a big deal? Spare me the assumption that it's a big deal, I'd like to hear from the people directly involved.

edit: if it is a big deal, I hope they'll finally be free to do something about it.

Edited by brs3, 10 August 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

This is out of control.

What's out of control is the reporting of unsubstantiated rumors as fact in an attempt to stir the pot.

Not saying I doubt Beckett was there, but what good can come of this sort of rumor-mongering?

[smastroyin]

I don't care if it's a big deal. Lackey hate is the one thing that I can connect with on this milquetoast no fight team.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

This team is running neck-and-neck with the Wade-Boggs-Delta-Force-era and Last-Days-of-Joe-Kerrigan for a tie for least liked team*.

* And quite honestly, I don't normally give any credence to "who's a good guy, who's a bad guy" type of jive that the media shovels. It's usually not that important to me (I still wear a Carl Everett t-shirt around) but there is something about this team that is so fucking grating that I wish that they'd either lose every single game from now until October 3 or just forfeit the the rest of the season.

Every time I think that there is an interesting story to root for (Ciriacco, Crawford, Gonzalez and Pedroia finally starting to hit, Bailey coming back), these pricks manage to out-asshole each other.

I can not wait for the 2012 season to be dead and buried.

[Dogman2]

What's out of control is the reporting of unsubstantiated rumors as fact in an attempt to stir the pot.

Not saying I doubt Beckett was there, but what good can come of this sort of rumor-mongering?

He is traded. That would be a good thing.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

He is traded. That would be a good thing.

But the less tenable the possibility of keeping him around due to fan hatred -- and the more rumors swirling around that he's an alcoholic -- the less trade leverage the Sox have. It's a no-win situation.

It's already the case that the Sox should trade him, and I hope it happens, but I don't believe for a minute that Ben will give him away for free, or just DFA him.

[maufman]

Big difference between Beckett and Lackey.

Josh Beckett earns $16mm a year, works in a city that's halfway across the country from his family, and doesn't have to report for work until 3pm most days. If that was my life, you'd see me in bars at 2am all the time. It's not like the report says he was visibly intoxicated.

John Lackey is getting paid even more than Beckett, even though he's not capable of working all. Because he's not capable of working, he shouldn't be in the clubhouse unless he's going to be a positive force there. Hearing that he's double-fisting beers after a loss only reinforces my belief that he ought to be sent home to rehab on his own.

[pokey_reese]

What's out of control is the reporting of unsubstantiated rumors as fact in an attempt to stir the pot.

Not saying I doubt Beckett was there, but what good can come of this sort of rumor-mongering?

Also, if he wasn't pitching until Wednesday, what do I care if he was up late on Monday?

[Rudy Pemberton]

i don't care if any of these guys are out getting shitfaced if they can perform on the field. But, when you hear about Beckett partying, and see that he's out of shape, and then see him getting rocked on the mound, is it out of line to put it all together? I don't really care if he's always done this, he's getting older now and there's a chance that he may have to work harder than he used to. If he's out until all hours of the night, than he's not taking things seriously. Same goes for Lackey, shouldn't he be working out and trying to come back? Hard to see how pounding beers fits in.

[Paul M]

JMOH, this is the least liked Sox team in the 30 years I have followed them. At least the 2001 team had Pedro, Manny, and Nomar. And they at least spent a bunch of days in first place. This one is like the Boggs teams but I still think this one is worse--it has John Lackey on it.

Not sure there was a bigger opponent to Lackey signing here than I was and it's funny how the greatest modern era team saw the window close in a game started by John Lackey--Game 3 ALDS. Since that game things really have gotten worse almost weekly. I think it will take 2-3 more years before things start heading in the right direction and I am not sure the GM in place right now is the long term answer.

[Skiponzo]

Wasn't one of the reasons given for Beckett sucking that he doesn't care anymore because now he has a family and focuses more on them?

I don't see how being in a bar until 2am is focusing on your family.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Wasn't one of the reasons given for Beckett sucking that he doesn't care anymore because now he has a family and focuses more on them?

I don't see how being in a bar until 2am is focusing on your family.

His family's likely back home in Texas.

[Skiponzo]

His family's likely back home in Texas.

Agreed but my overall point still stands. It's just another in a series of lame ass excuses for him sucking.

[LeoCarrillo]

It's pretty clear that trading Beckett this offseason or Lackey anytime soon would result in a poor return.

A decision to trade either of them, if it's in part influenced by all this beer-swigging, veteran "already got my ring" attitude, I believe should be made on whether it's affecting the young guys in the clubhouse. We're rebuilding. If low-money guys like WMB or return-from-injury workout guys like Ells or Crawford see these guys double-fisting without consequence, and it's pissing them off, then trade Beckett/Lackey for 60 cents on the dollar for the greater good.

If nobody really cares, and it's just media flame fanning, then show restraint in giving these guys away and see if they give you something in '13 or up their trade value.

[geoduck no quahog]

This is why Red Sox coverage SUCKS. It's like reading The Star.

Opening sports pages to read about someone drinking a couple of beers in the privacy of the clubhouse, or going out to a bar on their own fucking time is beyond outrageous. When did baseball become the home of innocent angels and when did reporters become professional gossip columnists...

Seriously. Anyone who thinks Lackey drinking in the clubhouse or Beckett getting hammered days before a game has any bearing on anything needs to get their own heads examined, get back to church, and find another sport to follow.

I really hate this witch-hunt philosophy of finding anything to blame the team's problems on.

They suck. That's all there is to it. I'm over it. Getting into personal behavior ain't so satisfying to me.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

i don't care if any of these guys are out getting shitfaced if they can perform on the field. But, when you hear about Beckett partying, and see that he's out of shape, and then see him getting rocked on the mound, is it out of line to put it all together? I don't really care if he's always done this, he's getting older now and there's a chance that he may have to work harder than he used to. If he's out until all hours of the night, than he's not taking things seriously. Same goes for Lackey, shouldn't he be working out and trying to come back? Hard to see how pounding beers fits in.

The recurring theme I've picked up regarding Beckett and Lackey is defiance. Defiant about how last season ended, defiant about the beer in the clubhouse, defiant about admitting problems with prep/conditioning. I see Lackey carrying around a couple of beers and Beckett out at the bars as simply another sign that they're not going to let anyone tell them about the problems from last year or this.

I'm exhausted from all the stupidity and defiant behavior. Neither guy is contributing to wins right now.

[RedOctober3829]

At this point, they could get a laundry cart and some soap back for Beckett or Lackey and the Red Sox win that trade. It's about moving them and getting them out of here regardless of what you get back.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Agreed but my overall point still stands. It's just another in a series of lame ass excuses for him sucking.

That wasn't your point. Your point was that he should be focusing on his family rather than drinking at a bar.

Except that his family is 1500 miles away, and it's 1 AM there. So it isn't like he should be doing the dishes, on the phone with wifey, or changing the little tyke's diapers. It's not like he got caught banging a little bit on the side, or involved in a drunken brawl that would involve personal or property damage.

He was just seen at the bar. And it was two days before his next start, so he wouldn't even have had to throw a bullpen session the next afternoon.

[glennhoffmania]

Also, if he wasn't pitching until Wednesday, what do I care if he was up late on Monday?

Seriously. I get that there are plenty of reasons to hate Beckett but questioning him going to a bar two days before a start seems pretty ridiculous to me.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Not to mention that these guys sleep late in the morning and are up very night into the night every single day, even if they're not out drinking. I'm having trouble with the idea that we should be applying 9-5 workday standards on players whose days are very different than that.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Well, if he's drunk on Monday, how much preparation is he doing on Tuesday? If it's the fourth inning on Wednesday, and he's laboring and getting pounded, maybe it's got no connection to Monday. But going out on Monday isn't helping him pitch better on Wednesday. It seems like we've got a bunch of guys here who are seeing their physical skills erode, and don't seem to be doing a damn thing to try to get better.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

Every post on here is misplaced.... It is scientific fact that curling a 12 or 16oz can of liquid to your giant horse lips is precisely the repititious exercise that is required to strengthen the newly replaced ulnar collateral ligament. John Lackey is obviously putting the team first and carrying out his rehab late into the night. What a selfless tireless worker.

[FL4WL3SS]

I don't think people are complaining about one night out at a bar. I could be wrong, but it seems people are more upset at the overall behavior of these guys and being out at a bar until 2AM is just symptomatic of a bigger problem with them. Who's to say Beckett isn't out at a bar the night before his starts? His performance on the field certainly indicates that he's not taking care of himself.

I get defending his freedom to go out and have a few drinks, but I think you're missing the bigger point that people are upset about. We pay a lot of money to see games and subsidize his contract, I don't think it's unfair for people to question his behavior given his performance on the field.

[maufman]

This is why Red Sox coverage SUCKS. It's like reading The Star.

Opening sports pages to read about someone drinking a couple of beers in the privacy of the clubhouse, or going out to a bar on their own fucking time is beyond outrageous. When did baseball become the home of innocent angels and when did reporters become professional gossip columnists...

The Beckett story came from Boston Dirt Dogs. The Lackey story came from a reporter for Comcast Sports New England. Nothing like the former outlet existed 20 years ago, and the equivalent of the latter in those days (SportsChannel, perhaps) wouldn't have sprung for a beat writer to cover the Sox. With such a proliferation of media outlets vying for attention, it's not surprising that such crap is reported as "news."

I especially don't understand BDD. Who is their intended audience? If you're bitter that grown men make millions to play a kid's game, why would you follow pro sports at all??

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

The Beckett story came from Boston Dirt Dogs. The Lackey story came from a reporter for Comcast Sports New England. Nothing like the former outlet existed 20 years ago, and the equivalent of the latter in those days (SportsChannel, perhaps) wouldn't have sprung for a beat writer to cover the Sox. With such a proliferation of media outlets vying for attention, it's not surprising that such crap is reported as "news."

I especially don't understand BDD. Who is their intended audience? If you're bitter that grown men make millions to play a kid's game, why would you follow pro sports at all??

Not familiar with his work, eh? His site is worthless trolling, best to avoid using it for anything reliable at all.

[RedOctober3829]

Seriously. I get that there are plenty of reasons to hate Beckett but questioning him going to a bar two days before a start seems pretty ridiculous to me.

I think it can be called into question. If he is getting hammered 2 days before a start, it's going to dehydrate him pretty badly. Being that it's the dead of summer and how hot it is, it's not smart.

[Carroll Hardy]

The team owes these two clowns about $70M over the next 2 1/4 seasons. Maybe if they got drunk enough, they could drive their Escalades off a bridge, never to be recovered. Probably the best outcome for ALCON.

[Toe Nash]

I'd just like to point out that it's Joe Haggerty who started this story. You know, the Bruins reporter. All the Red Sox reporters are saying it is a non-story.

Edes: https://twitter.com/...957532488585218

If Sox clubhouse was looking for excuse to explode they have it now. Lackey nonstory. Neither is beer on road

Abraham: https://twitter.com/...959096800403456 (and others in his timeline)

Lackey was not drunk. Nor were any of the other players who had a beer with their postgame meal. Period, end of non-story.

Cafardo as quoted above.

Why are we paying attention to a guy who mainly covers hockey, and has a history of blowing things out of proportion there and jumping to conclusions?

It doesn't matter how the drinking is "perceived" because like the Buchholz casino thing none of these players can do anything without some idiot with a press pass writing it up negatively to get some clicks. It's really frustrating and embarrassing and probably influences the decisions of free agents who might come here.

[glennhoffmania]

I don't think people are complaining about one night out at a bar. I could be wrong, but it seems people are more upset at the overall behavior of these guys and being out at a bar until 2AM is just symptomatic of a bigger problem with them. Who's to say Beckett isn't out at a bar the night before his starts? His performance on the field certainly indicates that he's not taking care of himself.

I get defending his freedom to go out and have a few drinks, but I think you're missing the bigger point that people are upset about. We pay a lot of money to see games and subsidize his contract, I don't think it's unfair for people to question his behavior given his performance on the field.

Your point about it being symptomatic of a bigger problem is a good one. Your point about the money is not. No one is forced to subsidize anything. If this team pisses you off too much, stop buying tickets and watching NESN. I've definitely watched fewer games this year.

I think it can be called into question. If he is getting hammered 2 days before a start, it's going to dehydrate him pretty badly. Being that it's the dead of summer and how hot it is, it's not smart.

First, no one reported he was hammered so that's a big leap. Second, I have confidence that Beckett can recover from a hangover if he was hammered before his start two days later.

People are really looking for new things to get pissed off at here.

[smastroyin]

I don't think people care about the beer. What they care about is that Lackey (and now Beckett) gives an air that he doesn't care about competing and that attitude has spread to other parts of this team and organization. The specifics about beer or whatever rumors are trivial. In fact, in terms of performance on the field, all of this is trivial. But the fact remains that this is a team that is losing more and seemingly caring less about that losing. And I think people have a right to be pissed off by that even if it amounts to nothing in terms of results.

[cshea]

Joe Haggerty is the CSNNE reporter that broke the Lackey story. Haggs is the Bruins guy for CSNNE and, if I'm not mistaken, this is the first time he's been on the road with the Red Sox. Seems to me that he hasn't a clue of how the clubhouse is, as guys like Edes and Abraham are all running to Lackey's defense and claiming this is a non-story.

Edit: Beaten to it.

Edited by cshea, 10 August 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Toe Nash]

Haggerty's also not a beacon of journalistic ethics even when he's covering his main sport. He generally does a decent job, and he puts in the effort to interview guys and such, but he freaks out about some stuff and loves to play up character and toughness (which, admittedly, matter more in hockey than baseball, but it's not like he is out on the ice with the guys either).

I can't find the link but he wrote a piece just trashing Chara after the B's blew a 2-0 lead to Montreal in January of 2011 and left without talking to media. Saying this isn't how captains act, going on about accountability, when really he was just mad that he didn't get a quote from Chara. And of course Chara's leadership on the ice has never been questioned and they went on the win the Cup that year.

[fineyoungarm]

His family's likely back home in Texas.

I see. Having a child clearly changed everything for Beckett. After all, he said so.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Gee, when it was Manny or Pedro not traveling with the team when they were hurt, there was outrage that they were spending time at the beach instead of supporting their teammates. I guess I'm never surprised by the double standards to which athletes get held these days, but its still pretty ridiculous.