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Posted 04 August 2012 - 01:26 PM
Posted 04 August 2012 - 01:46 PM
His steriod-era tangibles are good enough for serious HOF consideration, regardless of the laundry.
I take the opposite view though, I think his "intangibles" pretty much stink. He's not an ambassador for the game, so much as he is a publicity hound. He often spoke out as a player about his ideas and beliefs (sort of a fine line there) but most tellingly, he directly parleyed his baseball fame into a spectacular failure at taxpayer expense. He may have taken a personal hit on that, and I don't know how culpable he was, but it raises serious 'character' issues for me. I don't think he's an Albert Belle or anything, but I'm in no hurry to give him "nice guy points" based on interviews or soundbites.
Posted 04 August 2012 - 07:50 PM
Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:13 PM
Posted 04 August 2012 - 11:48 PM
Edited by JWSpringfield, 04 August 2012 - 11:50 PM.
Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:17 AM
I think he's a pretty borderline HoF candidate, but his post-season heroics and the fact that he allowed a crazy low number of unearned runs over his career push him over the top. That said, his fate is probably tied to the other guys on the ballot with him, and it's going to be an insane couple years for the HoF. Given who he'll share the ballot with (Bonds, Clemens, Maddux, Biggio, Piazza, Sosa, Thomas, Glavine, Mussina) I imagine his election will be more to do with steroids than anyone would have guessed during his playing career. If the scandal around his company has legs (and RI is going after him pretty hard), I could see that maybe effecting his chances, too.
Edited by alwyn96, 06 August 2012 - 01:35 AM.
Posted 06 August 2012 - 08:44 AM
I didn't know about the FBI investigation, and I'm curious to see what that will bring. As a first reaction, it smells political to me; a bone to throw to the voters who might assume the current RI regime is corrupt if they *don't* investigate. That said, if the company accepted the loan and disclosed everything to the loaner, I don't see what the problem is. (Provided of course, corporate assets weren't gratuitously drained, but I'd be surprised if that were the case. They seemed like spendthrifts who wanted to set up fancy offices before they sold the product. That's stupid, not criminal.)
Illegal or not, I don't think it helps his chances. If it were "completely separate" from his baseball career, it might still be damaging, but he did everything he could to associate his business venture with his career as a player; green monster, 38studios, etc. Businesses succeed or fail - not such a big deal. However, I don't think the HOF wants to send the message of "Hey, excel at baseball, and you too can lean on your fame get a shady loan which would ordinarily benefit mom and pop businesses, piss it away, and *still* get elected to the Hall of Fame!"
As an aside, with the steroids taint widening (it just occurred to me that MLB/HOF could still decide from the evidence presented in the failed Bonds/Clemens cases to block them from the HOF), has a HOF candidate ever looked as good as Maddux does? Even if clean or not, bulky guys like Thomas and Piazza are going to be under a quasi-cloud for awhile.
Posted 06 August 2012 - 04:11 PM
Posted 06 August 2012 - 11:10 PM
Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:41 AM
I don't believe he should because I see Schilling as a really good pitcher not a great pitcher. He was never clearly the best pitcher in baseball although he had 3 really good season where he was dominate and pitched a lot of innings. He was awesome in the post season and one of the seasons he did that allowed the Red Sox to win their first world series in 86 years so I think that will definately help his case. I think he is the same pitcher as Mike Mussina who I also think doesn't belong in the hall. Just for comparison sake here are their numbers
Regular Season Regular Season
W/L 216-146 W/L 270-153
ERA 3.46 ERA 3.68
ERA+ 127 ERA+ 1.23
K/9 8.6 K/9 7.1
BB/9 2.0 BB/9 2.0
Post Season Post Season
W/L 11-2 W/L 7-8
ERA 2.23 ERA 3.42
K/9 8.1 K/9 9.3
BB/9 1.7 BB/9 2.1
Mussina actually has more wins which is probably a product of him being on good teams with the Yankees and Orioles. Otherwise they are very similar. In the Post Season Schilling was better in terms of ERA and always was a lot luckier from a win/loss perspective. I just don't think either of these guys were dominate and hall of fame worthy outside of 2 or 3 seasons. In my mind Schilling and Mussina maybe get in on their last ballot or second to last similar to what happened to Jim Rice but there are so many pitchers from there generation that their numbers don't stack up against such as Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux. Randy Johnson has like 1500 more strikeouts and 70 more wins that Schilling. That's not a criticism of Schilling, Randy Johnson has the 2nd most K's of all time.
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