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Upgrading my home Internet


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#1 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 29 July 2012 - 01:36 PM

I currently have AT&T DSL service with which I'm very unhappy. I'd like to upgrade to something faster and more reliable and have many options from Time Warner Cable from which to choose.

First, a few things that might make a difference:

- We have 3 computers that run consistently - mine and my kids' computers. For roughly 4 months out of the year, we also have two other computers my parents bring with them when they visit.

- We also have an iPad (my wife), an Android tablet (my mother), and a couple of iPod Touches that utilize the home wifi from time to time.

- Most of the activity on them is checking email and surfing the web, but I'd also like to take advantage of the Amazon Instant Video service that comes with my Amazon Prime account and my MLB.tv service.

- I've pretty much stopped downloading torrents, but may still grab some here and there. I do, however, download a lot of stuff from iTunes (podcasts which are pretty big, for example) and other services.

Because of all of this, I'm assuming I'll need much higher bandwidth (which AT&T doesn't offer in my area), but how much is enough and how much is simply overpaying for service I don't need?

Time Warner offers the following options for me:

Ultimate (up to 50Mbps) $79.99/mo. For 12 Months
Extreme (up to 30Mbps) $49.99/mo. For 12 Months
Turbo (up to 20Mbps) $39.94/mo. For 12 Months
Standard (up to 10Mbps) $34.99/mo. For 12 Months
Basic (up to 3Mbps) $19.99/mo. For 12 Month

I'm thinking the Standard (up to 10Mbps) might be cutting it close but do I need to go as high as the Ultimate service? Is Turbo the sweet spot for me?

If you answer, please explain it so I can learn something and possibly be able to offer advice to friends/family when they come to me with a similar question. Does it have to do with the number of devices, the amount of activity, the types of activities, all of the above?

Thanks

edit: I have DirecTV and don't have a landline, so it's not as though I'm bundling anything. I'm just looking at Internet service.

Edited by Yaz4Ever, 29 July 2012 - 01:38 PM.


#2 soxhop411

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 02:44 PM

I currently have AT&T DSL service with which I'm very unhappy. I'd like to upgrade to something faster and more reliable and have many options from Time Warner Cable from which to choose.

First, a few things that might make a difference:

- We have 3 computers that run consistently - mine and my kids' computers. For roughly 4 months out of the year, we also have two other computers my parents bring with them when they visit.

- We also have an iPad (my wife), an Android tablet (my mother), and a couple of iPod Touches that utilize the home wifi from time to time.

- Most of the activity on them is checking email and surfing the web, but I'd also like to take advantage of the Amazon Instant Video service that comes with my Amazon Prime account and my MLB.tv service.

- I've pretty much stopped downloading torrents, but may still grab some here and there. I do, however, download a lot of stuff from iTunes (podcasts which are pretty big, for example) and other services.

Because of all of this, I'm assuming I'll need much higher bandwidth (which AT&T doesn't offer in my area), but how much is enough and how much is simply overpaying for service I don't need?

Time Warner offers the following options for me:

Ultimate (up to 50Mbps) $79.99/mo. For 12 Months
Extreme (up to 30Mbps) $49.99/mo. For 12 Months
Turbo (up to 20Mbps) $39.94/mo. For 12 Months
Standard (up to 10Mbps) $34.99/mo. For 12 Months
Basic (up to 3Mbps) $19.99/mo. For 12 Month

I'm thinking the Standard (up to 10Mbps) might be cutting it close but do I need to go as high as the Ultimate service? Is Turbo the sweet spot for me?

If you answer, please explain it so I can learn something and possibly be able to offer advice to friends/family when they come to me with a similar question. Does it have to do with the number of devices, the amount of activity, the types of activities, all of the above?

Thanks

edit: I have DirecTV and don't have a landline, so it's not as though I'm bundling anything. I'm just looking at Internet service.


Its really all based on personal opinion. (is money at all a deciding factor?) But since you said standard is cutting it close, I would try turbo to see if it meets your needs (its what we use (we have 4 computers (one laptop) and also an iPad) and it seems to meet our needs (we watch Netflix, MLB.tv and basic web stuff). If it turns out it does not meet your needs and you need to upgrade to extreme, I think you can call TWC and upgrade. Always better to start off lower and find out its what you need, then to start out at one of the top ones, and not really need all that speed.

Edited by soxhop411, 29 July 2012 - 02:48 PM.


#3 SteveF

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:15 PM

Good quality 720p requires about 3Mbps. Good quality 1080p requires 6Mbps. So the issue really is how many people you want to be able to stream video simultaneously. Checking email/surfing the internet is more burst use (unless surfing the internet includes streaming lots of youtube videos). Either way, most youtube videos aren't in 720p, so that will require lower bandwidth (between .8Mbps and 1.6 Mbps).

Also, Netflix doesn't do 1080p yet (I'm pretty sure). Their HD is 720p I believe, and there are options they support to help you tweak to reduce bandwidth if needed (they did this to help with Canadian customers who have metered usage).

Hope those numbers help you decide.

Edited by SteveF, 29 July 2012 - 03:18 PM.


#4 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:29 PM

Good quality 720p requires about 3Mbps. Good quality 1080p requires 6Mbps. So the issue really is how many people you want to be able to stream video simultaneously. Checking email/surfing the internet is more burst use (unless surfing the internet includes streaming lots of youtube videos). Either way, most youtube videos aren't in 720p, so that will require lower bandwidth (between .8Mbps and 1.6 Mbps).

Also, Netflix doesn't do 1080p yet (I'm pretty sure). Their HD is 720p I believe, and there are options they support to help you tweak to reduce bandwidth if needed (they did this to help with Canadian customers who have metered usage).

Hope those numbers help you decide.

If these numbers are correct, and I have no reason to think otherwise, it seems like the Standard (up to 10Mbps) would suffice for my needs as even streaming a video/ballgame at 1080p, I'd still have 4Mbps left over (if I'm getting the full 10, of course) for the other devices that are likely watching a youtube video (at most) or checking email / websurfing. For a total of $60/year more, however, the Turbo might be little overkill but it should also guarantee that even if a couple of high res videos are being streamed at once, we shouldn't have much of a hiccup with our service.

#5 cgori

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:40 PM

There was a time when those speeds (10/20/etc Mbps) were peak, and not likely to be what you would actually see in sustained throughput. I haven't had comcast/cable-internet in a long time so I don't know if that is still the case. Might want to check with people in your area/neighborhood to see.

Also, if your main issue with AT&T DSL is the reliability (?), I'm not sure if the cable will be better or worse there (it should be better on speed, almost certainly). Again, probably check with neighbors.

#6 SteveF

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:53 PM

According to a study released by the FCC, cable companies are, on average, delivering 96% of the promised speeds -- well up from the 50% they were delivering about 3 years ago.

I uploaded an excel spreadsheet into a google doc here for april 2012 data. It shows sustained download speeds as a percentage of advertised by ISP.

https://docs.google....OC0wUEdGbk8tNXc

As for me, I use Verizon FioS (20Mbps) and the data there accords with my experience. I get notably higher than advertised sustain downloads of between 10-20% more as the table indicates.

Edit: In case it's too much of a pain to see the doc for you, Time Warner delivers 95% at 10Mbps tier and 93% at the 20Mbps tier.

Edited by SteveF, 29 July 2012 - 04:12 PM.


#7 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:26 PM

I forgot to include Skye in my original post. The kids like to Skype their friends from Arizona and South Carolina or our soon-to-be exchange student from Germany. Not sure what toll this takes on the system but now my mother-in-law wants their Skype numbers so she can Skype them as well. I don't Skype, so I don't know much about it other than it's a way to have video calls.

#8 SteveF

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:31 PM

https://support.skyp...does-skype-need

#9 cgori

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 06:04 PM

SteveF, those are good and helpful #'s, like I said, I haven't had cable internet for a long time, so it's good to see that they are meeting their advertised throughput now.

#10 wibi


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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:34 AM

If you are planning on having multiple devices pulling data from the internet at the same time I would go with no less than the Turbo option given my experience with Comcast/Cox. I have Comcast at my house in Utah and Cox in my apartment in DC and love the speed I'm getting with both of them. I pay for the Ultimate package at both places because I cant stand slow internet. The only thing I can warn you is that after the 12month pricing package their prices jump about 40-50% over the prices you quoted above.

#11 The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:58 PM

If you are planning on having multiple devices pulling data from the internet at the same time I would go with no less than the Turbo option given my experience with Comcast/Cox. I have Comcast at my house in Utah and Cox in my apartment in DC and love the speed I'm getting with both of them. I pay for the Ultimate package at both places because I cant stand slow internet. The only thing I can warn you is that after the 12month pricing package their prices jump about 40-50% over the prices you quoted above.

In cases like that it's worth speaking to the retention department people to see if you can get them to extend your promotional offer price. Otherwise it's best from a value perspective to play annual ping pong with ISPs to take advantage of their new customer offers from year to year. Hopefully by then, ATT will offer a better DSL option for Yaz once his Time Warner promotional price expires.

Edited by The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa, 30 July 2012 - 03:59 PM.


#12 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:12 PM

I knew I forgot something. My parents bring their magicjack up from Florida when they visit (all summer and two weeks at Christmas). I also have a magicjack. Not sure how much bandwidth this sucks up, but I know that when they are here, my magicjack is basically useless (I just have it forwarded to google voice which sends it to my iPhone) and they complain about theirs. When they're in Florida, we both have much better success with MJ.

FTR, I have Time Warner coming out tomorrow for the install. I chose to go bigger than I planned and took the 2nd best package (Extreme - up to 30Mbps). It's $30 more than I'm paying now, but I'm basically throwing $20 out the window each month with the shitty service I often have.

#13 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:16 PM

Posted Image

New Internet installed. Advertised "up to 30Mbps" and I've consistently been at or exceeding 30 since installation. Just for testing purposes, downloaded an 86MB file from download.com. It took 15 seconds.

The system came with a Ubee modem/router. Never heard of this company, is it any good?

If someone wanted to torrent using this, assuming they could find a good site now that demonoid is down, what types of speeds should they expect? I downloaded something as a test via kat.ph and the most I saw (file was a couple of gigs) was 2.0Mbps. Why the disparity? Is it based solely on the seeders? There were over 100 of them. I'm on a Mac and using transmission, if that helps.

#14 derekson

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 05:11 PM

I've been using a Ubee router for the last 18 months. I had never heard of them prior to getting it either. But I haven't had any complaints.

And Transmission measures speeds in MB(ytes)ps, not Mb(its)ps, so if you were getting 2 MBps, that's 16 Mbps.

Edited by derekson, 08 August 2012 - 05:13 PM.


#15 SteveF

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:45 AM

The other issue is the total download bandwidth can't exceed the total upload bandwidth. Much like you, most other people torrenting have upload speed limits that are significantly lower than their download speed limits. Most people who seed files for extended periods of time cap their upload speeds far below what their connections are capable of, so even with 100 seeders you aren't going to make up the difference.

Anything faster than your upload speed (in your case 5 Mbps) should be considered gravy. Downloading a file at 3x the speed you are uploading it is a lot of gravy.

Edited by SteveF, 10 August 2012 - 02:46 AM.


#16 derekson

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:59 PM

Whoops, dunno why I wrote Ubee router. I've been using a Ubee cable modem for 18 months. I use an Airport Extreme for a router.

#17 JimBoSox9


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Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:00 PM

Posted Image


I don't know what the current situation, but I know that TW Cable has had significant blowback from their customers in the past with their draconian rate limiting ('09 or so). If they still have shitty policies about that, don't fall in love with running speedtests every time shit slows down to see what your speed is. Those tests transfer a shit-ton of data. My company had an issue a couple years back with users of a big ISP connecting with us, and we were using speedtest.net to check users connection speeds before realizing we were actually causing most of the problems because our tests were causing the rate limiting to cut them off.

#18 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:46 AM

Ok, so I had a lot of trouble getting pages to load this weekend - yesterday in particular.

It was a rainy day, so most people were inside plus it was a weekend (no work / fantasy football) for many people on my street. Being on cable Internet I think that matters, right?

Even so, should this have brought my above speeds to a halt? Yes, we have multiple devices in this house (four kids, exchange student, my parents were all around) but I would've thought the kind of bandwidth I'm getting would be able to handle that load and then some. Am I wrong?

Also, is it true that devices with older wifi cards will slow down everyone on a network? My dad has an older laptop and I have no idea how old the laptop my exchange student has. Could they be responsible for killing my household wifi?

Is there a way to view my network on my iMac to see which devices are actively drawing from the signal and how much they are hogging? Can I press a button to throttle that device(s) when necessary?

Again, it could be that my entire street was shipping, surfing, streaming, and refreshing fantasy pages all day and that's what contributed to the shittastic service I had yesterday but I'd like to hear from "experts" here before I call Time Warner and ask them WTF.


#19 timlinin8th

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:41 PM

Ok, so I had a lot of trouble getting pages to load this weekend - yesterday in particular.

It was a rainy day, so most people were inside plus it was a weekend (no work / fantasy football) for many people on my street. Being on cable Internet I think that matters, right?

Even so, should this have brought my above speeds to a halt? Yes, we have multiple devices in this house (four kids, exchange student, my parents were all around) but I would've thought the kind of bandwidth I'm getting would be able to handle that load and then some. Am I wrong?

Also, is it true that devices with older wifi cards will slow down everyone on a network? My dad has an older laptop and I have no idea how old the laptop my exchange student has. Could they be responsible for killing my household wifi?

Is there a way to view my network on my iMac to see which devices are actively drawing from the signal and how much they are hogging? Can I press a button to throttle that device(s) when necessary?

Again, it could be that my entire street was shipping, surfing, streaming, and refreshing fantasy pages all day and that's what contributed to the shittastic service I had yesterday but I'd like to hear from "experts" here before I call Time Warner and ask them WTF.


Ok, before getting too in depth, how much bandwidth should you be getting? Having read other people's horror stories about TWC, if your modem is only pulling between 3-5 Mbps, if that amount of bandwidth is then being sectioned out to 4-6 users of unknown data usage (streaming? Downloads?) it is entirely possible that it would slow things down to a crawl. Some routers have built-in net diagnostics to tell you which local IPs are pulling how much / % of data.

Provided TWC aren't completely overloading their nodes (which is possible, I suppose) neighbor usage shouldn't drastically effect your usage. Yes, node bandwidth is technically 'shared' but most companies are at least able to guarantee advertised speeds. Its not like back when cable internet first became big and you had thousands of subscribers sharing a single node.

Lastly, in regards to 'older' wireless devices slowing down the network, it is possible provided those devices are 802.11b devices. 802.11g/n can coexist but they cannot transmit at the same time as a -b device, so it makes the network have to resort to a weird sort of timesharing that can also severely limit wireless speeds. Of course, this wouldnt affect a hard-wired computer, so I don't know what kind of connection you were using. Just throwing out some little bits of random knowledge.

#20 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:36 AM

Ok, before getting too in depth, how much bandwidth should you be getting? Having read other people's horror stories about TWC, if your modem is only pulling between 3-5 Mbps, if that amount of bandwidth is then being sectioned out to 4-6 users of unknown data usage (streaming? Downloads?) it is entirely possible that it would slow things down to a crawl. Some routers have built-in net diagnostics to tell you which local IPs are pulling how much / % of data.

Provided TWC aren't completely overloading their nodes (which is possible, I suppose) neighbor usage shouldn't drastically effect your usage. Yes, node bandwidth is technically 'shared' but most companies are at least able to guarantee advertised speeds. Its not like back when cable internet first became big and you had thousands of subscribers sharing a single node.

Lastly, in regards to 'older' wireless devices slowing down the network, it is possible provided those devices are 802.11b devices. 802.11g/n can coexist but they cannot transmit at the same time as a -b device, so it makes the network have to resort to a weird sort of timesharing that can also severely limit wireless speeds. Of course, this wouldnt affect a hard-wired computer, so I don't know what kind of connection you were using. Just throwing out some little bits of random knowledge.


According to speedtest.net, I'm regularly getting good speeds. I'm paying for 30 and getting 25+ every time I've tested it. Obviously when it was at a crawl on Sunday and I had trouble getting pages to load I didn't bother running a test.

My dads laptop is almost certainly 802.11b and my "daughters" laptop is possibly running on that band as well. The other devices are more contemporary. Not that all of these devices are being used simultaneously, but we have 2 laptops, an iMac, 3 PCs, 4 iPhones, an iPad, 2 iPod Touches, 3 PS3s, 1 XBox 360, an android cellphone, an android tablet, 3 Nooks, and a Kindle. I think that's everything - whew, hadn't realized how many gadgets we had until I itemized it. Not sure if each of them draws from the wifi signal when not being used, but I would think its minimal even if so. Realistically, no more than 5-6 of those devices is being used at any one time. Remember, there are 9 people in this house (mom and dad and their four gadgets from above) head back to Florida on Sunday, so that will obviously help with the draw.

The only thing directly connected to the router is a small networking box for the DirecTV receivers (7 of those). Everything else is wireless.

#21 SteveF

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:17 PM

Was every device on the network slow or just yours? And were webpages loading slowly or not at all/timing out? Was there any torrenting/skype going on? Your router should log usage. Next time you notice a slow connection, pop into your router and look at the Tx (up) Rx(down) rates (it's usually listed in packets and Kbps) over the last few minutes and see how close to your caps you're getting.

There are two ways to solve the 802.11b issue. You could upgrade that network card (obviously) or buy a router (or switch, or wireless access point) and put that into bridge mode, turn off DHCP, and have your b devices (and g devices, probably, given having the second access point be all N on a different spectrum will help in other ways) use that router (or the old router) instead. The hit to speeds can be as much as 30-50% reduction with a b device on the network.

Of course, with the number of devices you are rocking using more than one wireless access point might be beneficial. I can't honestly say as I've never had any experience in an environment with so many devices on a single residential (i.e. cheap) router. Maybe someone can chime in who has actual experience.

Edited by SteveF, 02 October 2012 - 03:18 PM.


#22 NortheasternPJ

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:47 PM

One thing to consider as well is Comcast (and others i'm assuming ) have Speed Burst or some nonsense where the first 50 megs download at one speed and anything following is at whatever you pay for. I'm pretty sure its designed to give impressive Speed test scores. Just something to consider.

#23 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:00 PM

The "older wifi cards slowing down a network" thought is a tricky one. I've seen houses where certain computers hopping on the network can slow everything down but I was never comfortable just blaming the wifi card from an older system in that case. There are too many other variables to consider. Maybe one device has some spyware or a virus on it that's causing the problem. Maybe that device has a version of its operating system that doesn't play nice with the version of the operating system from another computer (I've seen some versions of vista not play well with xp or even windows 7). Or, maybe that device has nothing to do with it and there's some confirmation bias in recalling the times when the network has slowed down.

So let me ask you some questions. Has the network simply slowed down entirely since your dad's laptop entered the mix, whether he's got his computer on or not? If so, then it's likely not his laptop causing the problem. If it's only when his laptop is on and wifi is enabled, I'd run a full set of virus malware scans or even have it checked out by a professional. If the machine is clean and you can establish a definite correlation between his usage and the network slowing down, then check his operating system and version to make sure he's up to date. Then do the same for the rest of the machines in the house. Make sure the drivers for the network cards are up to date.

If the problem is unrelated to your dad's computer, it could be a number of things. It sounds like, from your above posting, that this was a fresh install. Do you recall whether they ran new lines to the house and then to the modem or if they used existing cable lines? If they ran new lines, the chances of it being an infrastructure problem are lessened, but not eliminated. It's always possible that a squirrel chewed on something or a storm caused a nick or a tear somewhere and that some moisture is getting into the lines. If the lines are not new, there might be a bad one somewhere.

With the install including a modem/router combo or a new unit for each (it was unclear in your post), I doubt we'd be looking at your hardware breaking down already. But you can at least test this by going from your modem directly to a computer to see if the speeds get better. If it's a combo unit, this will help you determine if the router portion went bad. If it's separate units, it will tell you if your router is the problem. If speeds are poor right out of the modem with an Cat5 cable, you need to call your provider. You can try unplugging everything, waiting a minute, then plugging the modem back in and waiting for it to lock back on, then plugging the router in again (if separate). Sometimes they just need to be reset and that will do the trick, but if it's only a few months old I'm guessing there's a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed.

The next section is written in case you're handy enough around the house to feel comfortable looking at their infrastructure and have the desire and energy to go running about the house. If you don't feel comfortable or just don't feel like doing the work checking things out, just skip to the bottom.

If you feel comfortable checking out some of the internal wiring to look for potential problems, you can start outside and check for signs of damage. Look for hangars at the point where the wire leaves the pole on the street and then reaches the building. There are different kinds of hangers, but there should be *something* there to alleviate strain on the line. If there aren't, there's a good chance it's an old drop and could need replacing. After that, look to make sure the hanger is properly installed and used. If the wire itself is taught against an edge from the hanger, it's probably not being used right or took some damage. There should be a thin wire that is attached to the drop wire that wraps around the hanger to take the bulk of the strain allowing the thicker portion of the wire to hang a little more loosely. This portion of the wire will head down the house (usually near the electric meter) where it should be screwed into a ground block.

A ground block is just a connection between the drop wire and the houses interior wiring with a ground wire coming off of it that should be attached to a properly installed electrical grounding spike or something similar. Make sure the fittings on the cable wire, both from the drop and from the interior wiring that's on the other side of the ground block are both new looking and screwed in firmly. Just bring a pair of pliers and give them an attempted turn (clockwise). There shouldn't be any give. Here's a picture of a ground block for reference. They come in a variety of configurations, so yours might not look exactly like this.

Posted Image

If the ground block is old and rusted, or the wires on either side appear brittle and really worn, they may need replacing. And while checking for a firm nut is fine, I wouldn't recommend pulling the wire off. Some drop wires have a low level of electricity running through them. You only have internet, so yours shouldn't, but yours wouldn't be the first house that mistake was made at. The level of electricity on the line wouldn't be dangerous to a healthy adult, but it's enough to scare you. Usually about 25 volts, but can get up to 90 in certain situations.

Anyway, if everything out there looks good, check to see if the wires actually run inside the house or are running outside. Some houses have their wire configuration on the exterior running under siding or along the siding with wires colored to not stand out. If the wires are outside, there will be a (or should be) a case around the splitters. Don't go into it if that's the case. Just look at some of the lines coming out of it to see if any of them look old.

If the wires are inside the house, head to the basement and look at the splitters there. Again, make sure the fittings all look new and undamaged. With the set up you described, you really should just have a ground block outside and a wire running right to the modem. If there are splitters and multiple wires running through the house from the wire coming out of the ground block, you could have a configuration problem. I'm guessing this isn't the case since you had good speeds for a while, but it's possible that the tech left you attached to a splitter and left the other legs on that splitter open which can cause something called ingress or signal loss. Make sure this isn't the case. And make sure you're following the right wire in from the ground block.



Skip to here if you jumped ahead.

Regardless, you'll probably want to call your provider either way. Ask if they're having any outages in the area. That does happen and could save you the trouble of waiting on a tech for a few days. Sadly, not all phone techs will check to see if there's maintenance work being done on or near your node and will just schedule a tech to come out when there's nothing they can do. So it's always a good question to ask. If you didn't skip ahead, you should have a good idea of any potential problem areas the tech should be taking a look at, though don't bother bringing any of that up on the phone. The phone tech will have no way to verify anyway.

The last bit of advice I'd offer is for you to check out your modem's interface page. Type 192.168.100.1 into your browser. It should bring up some kind of interface for the modem. Look for a status tab or something. The information you're looking for might be on the front page, though.

Check for either Transmit Power or Upstream Power (same thing, different names), Receive Power or Downstream Power, and Signal to Noise Ratio or SNR. They should be in roughly these ranges (it varies a bit from region to region).

Upstream: 35 to 50
Downstream: -10 to 10
Signal to Noise: Generally above 32

Different providers could have different requirements, but for the most part they operate in the vicinity of that range. So if you see a downstream of -14 or something, that's likely a problem. Likewise, an upstream of 54 is usually a bad sign. And problems tend to happen on those ends of the spectrum for each since a weaker signal will lead to a higher upstream and a lower downstream. Stronger signal gives you lower upstream numbers and higher downstream, and yes, too strong a signal can be just as problematic as too weak a signal.

Hope this helps and good luck.

#24 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:03 PM

Was every device on the network slow or just yours? And were webpages loading slowly or not at all/timing out? Was there any torrenting/skype going on? Your router should log usage. Next time you notice a slow connection, pop into your router and look at the Tx (up) Rx(down) rates (it's usually listed in packets and Kbps) over the last few minutes and see how close to your caps you're getting.

There are two ways to solve the 802.11b issue. You could upgrade that network card (obviously) or buy a router (or switch, or wireless access point) and put that into bridge mode, turn off DHCP, and have your b devices (and g devices, probably, given having the second access point be all N on a different spectrum will help in other ways) use that router (or the old router) instead. The hit to speeds can be as much as 30-50% reduction with a b device on the network.

Of course, with the number of devices you are rocking using more than one wireless access point might be beneficial. I can't honestly say as I've never had any experience in an environment with so many devices on a single residential (i.e. cheap) router. Maybe someone can chime in who has actual experience.


Every device was slowed to a crawl. No skyping or torrenting that I know of. As far as I know, I'm the only one in the house who does any torrenting.

One thing to consider as well is Comcast (and others i'm assuming ) have Speed Burst or some nonsense where the first 50 megs download at one speed and anything following is at whatever you pay for. I'm pretty sure its designed to give impressive Speed test scores. Just something to consider.


I don't think this applies to my Time Warner connection, but I will definitely look into it.

#25 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

The "older wifi cards slowing down a network" thought is a tricky one. I've seen houses where certain computers hopping on the network can slow everything down but I was never comfortable just blaming the wifi card from an older system in that case. There are too many other variables to consider. Maybe one device has some spyware or a virus on it that's causing the problem. Maybe that device has a version of its operating system that doesn't play nice with the version of the operating system from another computer (I've seen some versions of vista not play well with xp or even windows 7). Or, maybe that device has nothing to do with it and there's some confirmation bias in recalling the times when the network has slowed down.

So let me ask you some questions. Has the network simply slowed down entirely since your dad's laptop entered the mix, whether he's got his computer on or not? If so, then it's likely not his laptop causing the problem. If it's only when his laptop is on and wifi is enabled, I'd run a full set of virus malware scans or even have it checked out by a professional. If the machine is clean and you can establish a definite correlation between his usage and the network slowing down, then check his operating system and version to make sure he's up to date. Then do the same for the rest of the machines in the house. Make sure the drivers for the network cards are up to date.No, they've been here since mid-May. He keeps his laptop on all the time (I do the same with my iMac and my mother and son do the same with their PCs). This isn't a constant thing, it just seems that some days the speed is at the point where I look back fondly at dial-up (no exaggeration). Other times (most times, actually), this thing does very well.

If the problem is unrelated to your dad's computer, it could be a number of things. It sounds like, from your above posting, that this was a fresh install. Do you recall whether they ran new lines to the house and then to the modem or if they used existing cable lines? Existing lines were used. If they ran new lines, the chances of it being an infrastructure problem are lessened, but not eliminated. It's always possible that a squirrel chewed on something or a storm caused a nick or a tear somewhere and that some moisture is getting into the lines. If the lines are not new, there might be a bad one somewhere. When they first installed it, I know they had trouble with one channel. I assumed they fixed it as the system was working properly before they left. Is it possible that there is a bad channel (pretty sure that's what he called it - I suck at networking) that needs to be fixed? Is this something I can do? I've replaced the modem/router (a Ubee model) once already and we still get the shitty service from time to time.

With the install including a modem/router combo or a new unit for each (it was unclear in your post), I doubt we'd be looking at your hardware breaking down already. But you can at least test this by going from your modem directly to a computer to see if the speeds get better. If it's a combo unit, this will help you determine if the router portion went bad. If it's separate units, it will tell you if your router is the problem. If speeds are poor right out of the modem with an Cat5 cable, you need to call your provider. You can try unplugging everything, waiting a minute, then plugging the modem back in and waiting for it to lock back on, then plugging the router in again (if separate). Sometimes they just need to be reset and that will do the trick, but if it's only a few months old I'm guessing there's a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed. Probably stupid question, but do I need to do anything to the computer when I connect it directly via ethernet cable? I tried this the day of my original post and found no difference, but I could easily have forgotten to do something that would tell the computer to only use the ethernet. I'm running Snow Leopard, turned off AirPort, and chose ethernet. Is there anything else I should've done?

The next section is written in case you're handy enough around the house to feel comfortable looking at their infrastructure and have the desire and energy to go running about the house. If you don't feel comfortable or just don't feel like doing the work checking things out, just skip to the bottom.

If you feel comfortable checking out some of the internal wiring to look for potential problems, you can start outside and check for signs of damage. Look for hangars at the point where the wire leaves the pole on the street and then reaches the building. Our utilities are all underground. There are different kinds of hangers, but there should be *something* there to alleviate strain on the line. If there aren't, there's a good chance it's an old drop and could need replacing. After that, look to make sure the hanger is properly installed and used. If the wire itself is taught against an edge from the hanger, it's probably not being used right or took some damage. There should be a thin wire that is attached to the drop wire that wraps around the hanger to take the bulk of the strain allowing the thicker portion of the wire to hang a little more loosely. This portion of the wire will head down the house (usually near the electric meter) where it should be screwed into a ground block.

A ground block is just a connection between the drop wire and the houses interior wiring with a ground wire coming off of it that should be attached to a properly installed electrical grounding spike or something similar. Make sure the fittings on the cable wire, both from the drop and from the interior wiring that's on the other side of the ground block are both new looking and screwed in firmly. Just bring a pair of pliers and give them an attempted turn (clockwise). There shouldn't be any give. Here's a picture of a ground block for reference. They come in a variety of configurations, so yours might not look exactly like this.

Posted Image

If the ground block is old and rusted, or the wires on either side appear brittle and really worn, they may need replacing. And while checking for a firm nut is fine, I wouldn't recommend pulling the wire off. Some drop wires have a low level of electricity running through them. You only have internet, so yours shouldn't, but yours wouldn't be the first house that mistake was made at. The level of electricity on the line wouldn't be dangerous to a healthy adult, but it's enough to scare you. Usually about 25 volts, but can get up to 90 in certain situations.

Anyway, if everything out there looks good, check to see if the wires actually run inside the house or are running outside. The house was built in 2006 and all wires are inside. Some houses have their wire configuration on the exterior running under siding or along the siding with wires colored to not stand out. If the wires are outside, there will be a (or should be) a case around the splitters. Don't go into it if that's the case. Just look at some of the lines coming out of it to see if any of them look old.

If the wires are inside the house, head to the basement and look at the splitters there. Again, make sure the fittings all look new and undamaged. With the set up you described, you really should just have a ground block outside and a wire running right to the modem. If there are splitters and multiple wires running through the house from the wire coming out of the ground block, you could have a configuration problem. I'm guessing this isn't the case since you had good speeds for a while, but it's possible that the tech left you attached to a splitter and left the other legs on that splitter open which can cause something called ingress or signal loss. Make sure this isn't the case. And make sure you're following the right wire in from the ground block.



Skip to here if you jumped ahead.

Regardless, you'll probably want to call your provider either way. Ask if they're having any outages in the area. That does happen and could save you the trouble of waiting on a tech for a few days. Sadly, not all phone techs will check to see if there's maintenance work being done on or near your node and will just schedule a tech to come out when there's nothing they can do. So it's always a good question to ask. If you didn't skip ahead, you should have a good idea of any potential problem areas the tech should be taking a look at, though don't bother bringing any of that up on the phone. The phone tech will have no way to verify anyway.

The last bit of advice I'd offer is for you to check out your modem's interface page. Type 192.168.100.1 into your browser. It should bring up some kind of interface for the modem. Look for a status tab or something. The information you're looking for might be on the front page, though.

From the status page:

Cable Modem Status Item Status Comments Acquired Downstream Channel 561.000000 MHz Primary Downstream Locked Ranged Upstream Channel 28.200000 MHz Success CM Provisioning State OK Operational



Check for either Transmit Power or Upstream Power (same thing, different names), Receive Power or Downstream Power, and Signal to Noise Ratio or SNR. They should be in roughly these ranges (it varies a bit from region to region).

Downstream:

Cable Modem Downstream DS-1 DS-2 DS-3 DS-4 Frequency 561000000 543000000 549000000 555000000 Lock Status Locked Locked Locked Locked Channel Id 64 61 62 63 Modulation 256QAM 256QAM 256QAM 256QAM Symbol Rate
(Msym/sec)
5.360537 5.360537 5.360537 5.360537 Interleave Depth I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
Power Level
(dBmV)
7.2 5.6 6.2 6.9 RxMER
(dB)
42.50 42.80 42.60 41.30 Correctable
Codewords
6617 8278 8398 8483 Uncorrectable
Codewords
0 0 0 0

Upstream:

Cable Modem Upstream US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4 Channel Type 1.1 N/A N/A N/A Channel Id 2 N/A N/A N/A Frequency
(HZ)
28200000 N/A N/A N/A Ranging Status Success N/A N/A N/A Modulation 16QAM N/A N/A N/A Symbol Rate
(Ksym/sec)
2560 N/A N/A N/A Mini-Slot Size 4 N/A N/A N/A Power Level
(dBmV)
32.9 N/A N/A N/A T1 Timeouts 0 N/A N/A N/A T2 Timeouts 0 N/A N/A N/A T3 Timeouts 785 N/A N/A N/A T4 Timeouts 0 N/A N/A N/A


Cable Modem Event Log:

Tue Oct 02 18:15:55 2012 Tue Oct 02 18:15:55 2012 Notice (6) Web user logged in from 192.168.0.8 Mon Oct 01 20:51:12 2012 Mon Oct 01 20:51:12 2012 Notice (6) DHCP Renew - lease parameters Time Protocol Servers modified;... Mon Oct 01 20:51:12 2012 Mon Oct 01 20:51:12 2012 Error (4) DHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-M... Sun Sep 30 10:11:07 2012 Sun Sep 30 10:11:07 2012 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=90:6e:... Sun Sep 30 10:11:07 2012 Sun Sep 30 10:11:07 2012 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=90:6e:... Time Not Established Time Not Established Warning (5) ToD request sent - No Response received;CM-MAC=90:6e:bb:f0:43... Time Not Established Time Not Established Warning (5) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response ;CM-MAC... Wed Sep 19 20:40:18 2012 Wed Sep 19 20:40:18 2012 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Un... Tue Oct 02 15:04:39 2012 Tue Oct 02 15:04:39 2012 Critical (3) Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received - ... Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) DHCP FAILED - Request sent, No response;CM-MAC=90:6e:bb:f0:43... Thu Sep 13 00:33:18 2012 Thu Sep 13 00:33:18 2012 Critical (3) DHCP FAILED - Discover sent, no offer received;CM-MAC=90:6e:b... Thu Sep 13 00:32:46 2012 Thu Sep 13 00:32:46 2012 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=90:6e:bb:f0... Thu Sep 13 00:16:41 2012 Thu Sep 13 00:16:41 2012 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Un... Thu Sep 13 00:16:41 2012 Thu Sep 13 00:16:41 2012 Critical (3) SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire FEC f... Mon Sep 10 07:12:18 2012 Mon Sep 10 07:12:18 2012 Critical (3) Resetting the cable modem due to docsDevResetNow Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire QAM/Q... Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire FEC f...



Upstream: 35 to 50
Downstream: -10 to 10
Signal to Noise: Generally above 32

Different providers could have different requirements, but for the most part they operate in the vicinity of that range. So if you see a downstream of -14 or something, that's likely a problem. Likewise, an upstream of 54 is usually a bad sign. And problems tend to happen on those ends of the spectrum for each since a weaker signal will lead to a higher upstream and a lower downstream. Stronger signal gives you lower upstream numbers and higher downstream, and yes, too strong a signal can be just as problematic as too weak a signal.

Hope this helps and good luck.


Most of the above is greek to me, but I REALLY appreciate your help. I'm happy to provide any other information from my modem/router, if you're willing to help me troubleshoot this. TWC service sucks, in case you didn't know that. If this is something I can fix myself - even going back and forth with you and others here for a few days - rather than waiting for them to send someone out on a day I'm available for 5 hour waiting blocks, I'd much prefer to do so.

Oh, and by the way, while reviewing my modem/router info to post here, it locked up again between pages. It's been painfully slow again since I came home from work. Not sure how it was all day while I was out, but I'm sure my parents will let me know all about any problems they had :)

edit: crap. Everything looked nice in little tables when I pasted it. I'll look for the SoSH table maker thingy and try to make it look better and easier to read. Sorry about that.

Edited by Yaz4Ever, 02 October 2012 - 06:44 PM.


#26 Yaz4Ever


  • Snake Charmer


  • 6,668 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:59 PM

Cable Modem Status
Item Status Comments
Acquired Downstream Channel 561.000000 MHz Primary Downstream Locked
Ranged Upstream Channel 28.200000 MHz Success
CM Provisioning State OK Operational




Cable Modem Downstream
DS-1 DS-2 DS-3 DS-4
Frequency 561000000 543000000 549000000 555000000
Lock Status Locked Locked Locked Locked
Channel Id 64 61 62 63
Modulation 256QAM 256QAM 256QAM 256QAM
Symbol Rate
(Msym/sec) 5.360537 5.360537 5.360537 5.360537
Interleave Depth I=32
J=4 I=32
J=4 I=32
J=4 I=32
J=4
Power Level
(dBmV) 7.3 5.7 6.3 7.0
RxMER
(dB) 42.70 42.60 42.90 42.00
Correctable
Codewords 0 0 0 0
Uncorrectable
Codewords 0 0 0 0




Cable Modem Upstream
US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4
Channel Type 1.1 N/A N/A N/A
Channel Id 2 N/A N/A N/A
Frequency
(HZ) 28200000 N/A N/A N/A
Ranging Status Success N/A N/A N/A
Modulation 16QAM N/A N/A N/A
Symbol Rate
(Ksym/sec) 2560 N/A N/A N/A
Mini-Slot Size 4 N/A N/A N/A
Power Level
(dBmV) 31.4 N/A N/A N/A
T1 Timeouts 0 N/A N/A N/A
T2 Timeouts 0 N/A N/A N/A
T3 Timeouts 0 N/A N/A N/A
T4 Timeouts 0 N/A N/A N/A




Cable Modem Event Log
First Time Last Time Priority Description
Tue Oct 02 18:52:11 2012 Tue Oct 02 18:52:11 2012 Notice (6) Web user logged in from 192.168.0.8
Tue Oct 02 18:36:27 2012 Tue Oct 02 18:36:27 2012 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=90:6e:...
Tue Oct 02 18:36:27 2012 Tue Oct 02 18:36:27 2012 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=90:6e:...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Warning (5) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response ;CM-MAC...
Wed Sep 19 20:40:18 2012 Wed Sep 19 20:40:18 2012 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Un...
Tue Oct 02 15:04:39 2012 Tue Oct 02 15:04:39 2012 Critical (3) Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received - ...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) DHCP FAILED - Request sent, No response;CM-MAC=90:6e:bb:f0:43...
Thu Sep 13 00:33:18 2012 Thu Sep 13 00:33:18 2012 Critical (3) DHCP FAILED - Discover sent, no offer received;CM-MAC=90:6e:b...
Thu Sep 13 00:32:46 2012 Thu Sep 13 00:32:46 2012 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=90:6e:bb:f0...
Thu Sep 13 00:16:41 2012 Thu Sep 13 00:16:41 2012 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Un...
Thu Sep 13 00:16:41 2012 Thu Sep 13 00:16:41 2012 Critical (3) SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire FEC f...
Mon Sep 10 07:12:18 2012 Mon Sep 10 07:12:18 2012 Critical (3) Resetting the cable modem due to docsDevResetNow
Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire QAM/Q...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire FEC f...


#27 Snodgrass'Muff


  • definitely knows how to calculate shit


  • 14,085 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:58 PM

Sorry for the delay in responding, but I've been away and my net usage has been mostly quick bursts and recreational. I didn't have time to work up a proper response to this before now.

No, they've been here since mid-May. He keeps his laptop on all the time (I do the same with my iMac and my mother and son do the same with their PCs). This isn't a constant thing, it just seems that some days the speed is at the point where I look back fondly at dial-up (no exaggeration). Other times (most times, actually), this thing does very well.


Service should be consistently good, so you definitely want to address this.

Existing lines were used.


I'll get back to this after one of your later responses.

When they first installed it, I know they had trouble with one channel. I assumed they fixed it as the system was working properly before they left. Is it possible that there is a bad channel (pretty sure that's what he called it - I suck at networking) that needs to be fixed? Is this something I can do? I've replaced the modem/router (a Ubee model) once already and we still get the shitty service from time to time.


It's possible they patched it up well enough for it to pass diagnostic tests immediately and later that day. For the most part, techs are fighting a losing battle. These services will break down eventually so there is never going to be a permanent fix for anything. The question is how long can you get it working for. The other problem is that techs can be absolutely overloaded with stops. As a contractor, I was constantly given far more work than I should have been which forced me to do patch jobs where possible to catch up and not get docked for being late for something later. So when they said they fixed the problem, there's a wide range of possibilities for what that could mean.

Every company is going to be different, but what I had to contend with was an overloaded schedule most days where I needed to ensure that what was fixed would pass an immediate test, a test that night after 9pm and a possible dock in pay if either failed or if the customer had to call a technician back for the same problem within two weeks. After I got hurt and just before I was laid off, my tech buddies who were still working were telling me that if the customer had to call for any reason at all within 2 weeks they were now being docked.

So the system in place for the company I worked for was not one that was conducive to looking for long term solutions to a customer's problem every time out.

Probably stupid question, but do I need to do anything to the computer when I connect it directly via ethernet cable? I tried this the day of my original post and found no difference, but I could easily have forgotten to do something that would tell the computer to only use the ethernet. I'm running Snow Leopard, turned off AirPort, and chose ethernet. Is there anything else I should've done?


Yes, and I should have mentioned this in my last post. Sorry for being sloppy. Any time you take a cable out of one device and plug it into another device you should restart the modem first. That means unplugging it from the router, then pulling the power and letting it sit for a minute. Then plug the modem back in and let it lock back on. It usually goes through a period of each light coming on until it stabilizes with several lights being solid and sometimes one light flashing. Most modems will have lights marked "power" "send" "receive" and "online/cable" and some have a "pc" or something similar. Power and online/cable should be locked on solid. Send and receive can flicker as can PC if it's there. It's also OK if send and receive are off.

Once that's the case, plug the wire into the laptop and give it a few minutes to recognize it has a LAN connection available and lock on. Depending on your laptop, it might be a good idea to turn your wireless adapter off first. Some laptops have a button you can hit above the keyboard, otherwise you can right click on your wireless icon in the system tray at the bottom right of the screen, then click "open network and sharing." After that, depending on your operating system, you may see a few different things, but try to find something like "manage network adapters." Do a google search for your operating system and "network adapter" if you're having trouble and you should be able to work it out.

If your issue continues, it's probably an issue with the modem or the infrastructure. I'm leaning in this direction based on the numbers you posted below, but I'll get to that in a bit.

Our utilities are all underground.


OK, so the wiring isn't terribly old, which is good. Being underground could mean a slew of other problems, though. A burrowing animal could have nicked the drop wire. The roots of a plant may have caused damage. The hardening and defrosting of the ground could have damaged it. The heavy rainstorms may have caused water damage. Ect ect.

If the wire is in a conduit, it may have had ice build up within the conduit putting lots of strain on the line. Ice can also cut the line as it melts and cracks. If you look at where the wire comes up out of the ground by your house, you may be able to see if it has a conduit or not. Sometimes they're buried entirely, though, so you could have one and not see it. If there isn't one, the line is more susceptible to damage.

The house was built in 2006 and all wires are inside.


This is good. Your interior wiring is less likely to have problems if it's new. That said, depending on who ran the lines, and with a new house it's often an electrician, they could have cut a corner by picking cheaper wire. The wires inside should be RG6. If they're RG59 or if there's even one bit of RG59, it can calls all kinds of problems with signal quality and consistency. RG59 is thinner than RG6, but if it's all in the walls you may not be able to tell what you have. If you have a tech out there, you can ask them to take a look by opening up the wall plates. Typically, if it's RG59 in the walls, they'll tell you that you need to talk to an electrician as many cable companies do not allow their techs to wall fish anymore. There are too many opportunities for the tech to make a mistake and cause damage that the cable company then has to cover.

The other option you might have would be to run an exterior line along the siding to the room and to punch through from the outside and install a new wall plate on the inside. They seal the hole with silicone, but if it's a new house many people aren't comfortable with punching new holes through the walls, even one's as small as a nickel. If you feel this way, that's completely understandable, but you might be stuck dealing with intermittent service or paying through the nose to have an electrician rerun higher quality wires.

Regardless, this is a last resort. Don't jump to this until you exhaust all other possibilities.

From the status page:


What I'm seeing here is a downstream of 7.3, 5.7, 6.3, 7.0 and an upstream of 31.4. I don't see a signal to noise ratio, but that's OK. Your upstream power level is very likely the problem.

The ranges I posted above are a general rule and might vary a db or two here and there from company to company, but 31.4 is very likely well past an acceptable range for your service. The good news is that there are a number of ways to deal with this and there might even be a cheap way for you to patch this without having to deal with a technician.

As I mentioned above, the stronger the signal the lower your upstream power level will be and the higher your downstream power will be. With 35 and positive 10 being the respective limits on that end of the spectrum, you're likely dealing with a signal that's too strong. It's possible that it was just strong enough when they were last there and that some maintenance or line replacements increased signal strength in your neighborhood which brought you above the signal strength needed for clean service. So cutting down the signal strength could solve the problem.

If you can get your hands on an attenuator, you can use it to weaken the signal right before it goes into the modem. Click the link to read up on them if you're interested in the nitty gritty. Otherwise, you can order them online or stop at a shop that sells cable and cable accessories to see if they have them. They're not expensive. They look like this:

Posted Image

You'll notice a number right before the DB. You want one no lower than 6 but can probably go as high as 10. Just screw the cable wire into the back of it, then screw the attenuator into the modem. Again power down the modem first, then plug it back in once the cable wire is reattached.

So, if you have a clean run of wire from the street and are just looking at too high a signal strength, this should fix your problem until the signal strength changes drastically at some point in the future. Again, nothing is ever fixed forever. :)

Now, this does bring up a question. At any point between where the wire enters the house and the modem, is there an amplifier? An amp will often be a square or rectangular device that has a cable wire going into it and a power wire as well. Often, the power wire is made of coax cable. The amp will then have a cable wire coming out and continuing on into the house or directly into a device. So you should see three wires attached to it. Many also have a light (usually green) to indicate power is on.

The generally look something like one of these:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image


If you have an amplifier, you'll want to call TWC and have their technician come out and deal with it. It was probably put in for a reason and just pulling it out might make things worse. They typically bring a weak downstream up into passable ranges but will also bring the upstream level down, sometimes significantly.

The fact that your downstream is as high as it is makes me think you probably don't have one, but if it's right behind the modem, I could see it being boosted by that much. Typically, you find them in houses with a bunch of active cable jacks where a normally healthy signal just isn't enough to cover all the devices drawing from it. Though, sometimes techs will slap one on a mess of a house to get it working long enough for them to get out of the house without being docked or having to do a significant rewiring job. Doesn't sound like that's likely to be the case in your house, though.

So take a look where the wires come into the basement and behind the modem. If there isn't one in either place, you probably don't have one. Rarely, they're outside in a house box, but you shouldn't be opening that if it's there and the attenuator I mentioned above may still work even if you have an amp somewhere.

Most of the above is greek to me, but I REALLY appreciate your help. I'm happy to provide any other information from my modem/router, if you're willing to help me troubleshoot this. TWC service sucks, in case you didn't know that. If this is something I can fix myself - even going back and forth with you and others here for a few days - rather than waiting for them to send someone out on a day I'm available for 5 hour waiting blocks, I'd much prefer to do so.

Oh, and by the way, while reviewing my modem/router info to post here, it locked up again between pages. It's been painfully slow again since I came home from work. Not sure how it was all day while I was out, but I'm sure my parents will let me know all about any problems they had :)

edit: crap. Everything looked nice in little tables when I pasted it. I'll look for the SoSH table maker thingy and try to make it look better and easier to read. Sorry about that.


Based on what you've described and the numbers you've given me I think an attenuator will smooth out your service. Give it a shot and see if that takes care of it. The numbers in the table you provided should change so that Upstream power level is between 35 and 52 and Downstream power level is between -10 and 10. If there's no change, call TWC.

Hopefully this helps.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 08 October 2012 - 02:14 PM.


#28 SteveF

  • 32 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:27 PM

You're right about the upstream dBmV not being ideal. I almost suggested an attenuator myself when this was first posted based off the strength of the upstream/downstream. It never occurred to me that there could be a signal amplifier in the mix. If there is...man that's ugly and reflects badly on the TW customer service. I understand that signal amps are sometimes needed at the end of the line, but they almost always mess up internet service.

The numbers, frankly, aren't that far off though. 31.4 isn't considered out of spec for 16 QAM by most cable companies (you'd have to be under 25-28 I think), but I've heard other people insist 35 is the minimum number you'd want as well.

You did have a bunch of T3 timeouts (785) on your upload channel. So that could potentially indicate a problem with the service. The problem is there's no indication of how long a time period those errors occurred over and there was only 1 T3 timeout in your log.

#29 Snodgrass'Muff


  • definitely knows how to calculate shit


  • 14,085 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:35 PM

I'm guessing there isn't an amp in the house, but it's worth mentioning since it's certainly not impossible. Could have been put in to compensate for a weaker signal coming down the street that has since been fixed, making the amp unnecessary. That used to happen around here a lot. With such a new house there's a pretty good chance we're not looking at a wiring problem.

I only mention it because he's better off calling them to have them come remove the amp and check the signal without it than he is slapping an attenuator on the back of the modem with an amp sitting there. It might work, but that doesn't mean it's a great idea. :)

#30 SteveF

  • 32 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:40 PM

I'm guessing there isn't an amp in the house, but it's worth mentioning since it's certainly not impossible.


I quite agree as to it being worth mentioning. I intended that as a compliment to your thoroughness. I didn't even think of that (very real) possibility.

#31 Snodgrass'Muff


  • definitely knows how to calculate shit


  • 14,085 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:22 PM

Yeah, I was mostly just reiterating for Yaz's sake. You seem to be more comfortable with routers than I am (I was only trained in the very basics with routers and was only responsible for equipment up to the modem), so it's entirely possible that you'll need to take the wheel in this thread if my suggestions don't end up helping. So I'm certainly glad you chimed in.

#32 Yaz4Ever


  • Snake Charmer


  • 6,668 posts

Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:54 PM

Guys, thanks for the information. I looked outside and didn't see an amp, so I'm thinking I probably don't have one. I did, however, think it might be best if I shared pictures of what there is outside (as well as the equipment inside). Sometimes we don't know what we don't know. Maybe I've got something here that will trigger a "duh, there's your problem" reaction from one of you much smarter than me people. Then again, maybe not :)

Posted Image

The AT&T (BellSouth) box that goes (I'd assume) unused as we don't have a landline nor any other product from them at this time.

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The Time Warner outside boxes. Yes, I need to weed back there. Ugh.

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Inside the small TW box - it's phone line stuff (we once had a landline through them, so I guess that's what it's for). The larger box is closed tight with a plastic strap. I can tell you that all of my DirecTV coax cables go from the dish into a multiplexer and then into this box where all the direct lines to each receiver is located. I can obviously cut the tie and put a new one on, but it's quite full and sometimes a pain in the ass to get closed, so I lazied out this time around. Let me know if you need to see the innards and I'll get that done right away.


Posted Image

The items on the hardwood floor are (from left to right): a DirecTV network thing that allows me to download onDemand shows (and probably more that I don't realize), the ubee modem/router, a power thingy from DirecTV that I was told not to touch.


One thing I'm finding is that when I click on the little wifi logo up near the clock on the upper right corner of my iMac screen (Snow Leopard) and then click on "open network preferences" I can choose "assist me...", choose my network, and then a box comes up saying that there has been a change with my connection and then it says my network is working fine. When I go back to Chrome, Sparrow, or Transmission, everything works perfectly again (almost always). The problem is I'm doing this 8-10 times a day. Keep in mind, that seems quite often but I don't get home from work until 3:30-4:00 most days, so it's more than you might have considered.

Edited by Yaz4Ever, 09 October 2012 - 05:07 PM.


#33 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

Also, assuming an attenuator is what we decide I need, would this be a good choice? It's 6db. I also found this 10db attenuator. The others I saw with my cursory look were either 3db or 12db. I was hoping to find something around 8 do stay within your 6-10db range (maybe they don't make that?).

#34 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:34 PM

As far as I can tell you're guessing right about all the items in the pictures. The gray box on the outside of the house that's locked up with a plastic zip tie is the house box I mentioned earlier. If Direct TV is using it, then your TWC likely doesn't go through there. At this point, I'm fairly confident you have a direct run almost immediately to your modem and that we're likely looking at the signal just being too strong. I don't see your TWC line in any of the outside pictures so it might come up through a conduit in the basement or it might just be somewhere in the grass. That's fine though.

So yeah, my recommendation is to try the attenuator. To answer your question, I'd go with the 10 but being that they're pretty cheap, it wouldn't hurt to pick up the 6 as well just in case the ten isn't too much. The numbers don't always drop as much as you expect with them, so sometimes a ten cuts you down by 8 or 12 instead of 10. Even then, you should still have plenty of wiggle room, so that would be the first one I would try.

I mentioned 6 or 10 because I only remember there being 6 or 10 from my days working as a tech. So don't worry about trying to split the difference.

To install it, just pull the power on your modem, disconnect the cable wire, screw the attenuator directly to the modem where the cable wire goes, then screw the cable wire into the back of the attenuator. Plug the modem back in and wait for it to come back up.

To make sure it's working as intended you can type 192.168.100.1 into your router and check the numbers again. They should be within the ranges mentioned above. Upstream power between 35 and 52, Downstream power between -10 and 10.

If there's no change, call TWC. The good thing about a combo modem/router is that there's only one piece of hardware to troubleshoot. The downside is that there is only one piece of hardware to troubleshoot, so if one component goes bad (like the router portion), you're stuck replacing the whole thing. It's new enough that TWC should cover that, though. And that's just if the attenuator doesn't work.

I'm feeling pretty good about it taking care of your problem, though. Let us know how it goes.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 09 October 2012 - 05:36 PM.


#35 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:55 PM

As far as I can tell you're guessing right about all the items in the pictures. The gray box on the outside of the house that's locked up with a plastic zip tie is the house box I mentioned earlier. If Direct TV is using it, then your TWC likely doesn't go through there. At this point, I'm fairly confident you have a direct run almost immediately to your modem and that we're likely looking at the signal just being too strong. I don't see your TWC line in any of the outside pictures so it might come up through a conduit in the basement or it might just be somewhere in the grass. That's fine though.

So yeah, my recommendation is to try the attenuator. To answer your question, I'd go with the 10 but being that they're pretty cheap, it wouldn't hurt to pick up the 6 as well just in case the ten isn't too much. The numbers don't always drop as much as you expect with them, so sometimes a ten cuts you down by 8 or 12 instead of 10. Even then, you should still have plenty of wiggle room, so that would be the first one I would try.

I mentioned 6 or 10 because I only remember there being 6 or 10 from my days working as a tech. So don't worry about trying to split the difference.

To install it, just pull the power on your modem, disconnect the cable wire, screw the attenuator directly to the modem where the cable wire goes, then screw the cable wire into the back of the attenuator. Plug the modem back in and wait for it to come back up.

To make sure it's working as intended you can type 192.168.100.1 into your router and check the numbers again. They should be within the ranges mentioned above. Upstream power between 35 and 52, Downstream power between -10 and 10.

If there's no change, call TWC. The good thing about a combo modem/router is that there's only one piece of hardware to troubleshoot. The downside is that there is only one piece of hardware to troubleshoot, so if one component goes bad (like the router portion), you're stuck replacing the whole thing. It's new enough that TWC should cover that, though. And that's just if the attenuator doesn't work.

I'm feeling pretty good about it taking care of your problem, though. Let us know how it goes.


will do. thanks again.

#36 Yaz4Ever


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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:00 PM

ordered the 10 and the 6. Total with shipping $10.47. If this fixes it, it's money very well spent. If not, it's not like I'm out a ton.




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