177 replies to this topic

[Dick Pole Upside]

His mental approach to the game--including his dedication and preparation--has changed (perhaps) after signing the long term, lucrative contract.

You were doing okay until this part. The Sox can only wish they had players half as dedicated as Crawford. If anything, he has been encouraged to dial it back a bit based on the relentlessness and intensity of his preparation.

I am pro-Crawford. I also recognize he isn't performing anywhere close to expectations. But the inference that he is less dedicated or less prepared as a result of the contract is preposterous.

[FanSinceBoggs]

You were doing okay until this part. The Sox can only wish they had players half as dedicated as Crawford. If anything, he has been encouraged to dial it back a bit based on the relentlessness and intensity of his preparation.

I am pro-Crawford. I also recognize he isn't performing anywhere close to expectations. But the inference that he is less dedicated or less prepared as a result of the contract is preposterous.

Ultimately, this is total speculation on my part and thus this is why I included the word, "perhaps."

But it might not be such a stretch. When a player gets a 142 million contract, it is quite possible that that player will be distracted by various things and put less effort into his craft, leading to declining production and maybe more injuries as well.

Edited by FanSinceBoggs, 27 July 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[Yaz4Ever]

You were doing okay until this part. The Sox can only wish they had players half as dedicated as Crawford. If anything, he has been encouraged to dial it back a bit based on the relentlessness and intensity of his preparation.

I am pro-Crawford. I also recognize he isn't performing anywhere close to expectations. But the inference that he is less dedicated or less prepared as a result of the contract is preposterous.

Simply couldn't agree more. I still hold out hope that Crawford will perform at the level Theo-the-Great expected when signing him. He's got the ability, but has dealt with injuries. He's played more than Bailey who seems to get a lot more slack then him.

[Otis Foster]

Ultimately, this is total speculation on my part and thus this is why I included the word, "perhaps."

But it might not be such a stretch. When a player gets a 142 million contract, it is quite possible that that player will be distracted by various things and put less effort into his craft, leading to declining production and maybe more injuries as well.

Enough. Lay off the amateur psychoanalysis. He's not performing, period. He probably never should have stepped into this media hellhole in the first place, but he did and that's behind us. He's not a serial rapist or a child molester, he's a relatively young guy who's struggling with a possible early decline and by all appearances, is desperate to earn his contract.The only question is this - can he be rehabilitated playing here? Has he lost his skill sets?

I don't have a clue but presumably the baseball people - if they're up to it - can determine if he's simply on an early downgrade. If he is, no-one will give us a bucket of warm piss for him, and the RS will have to eat most of his outrageous contract just to get him out of town. Which will be a good thing for him. And maybe a good thing for the RS.

[uncannymanny]

But it might not be such a stretch.

But it is, unless you are willing to discount the numerous reports to the contrary.

[LogansDad]

Simply couldn't agree more. I still hold out hope that Crawford will perform at the level Theo-the-Great expected when signing him. He's got the ability, but has dealt with injuries. He's played more than Bailey who seems to get a lot more slack then him.

I am on the "I hope Crawford turns it around bandwagon" too, but I think comparing him to Bailey is apples and oranges. Crawford was the big-ticket 9-figure free agent, and was greatly publicized. And while the Bailey trade didn't go under the radar, *all* the Sox gave up for him was Reddick (which to us is a big deal with the way Reddick is mashing, but to the average fan is probably mostly whatever). Also, Crawford struggled for a long time before he got hurt, whereas we haven't seen Bailey in the uniform yet.

[RedOctober3829]

Also worth noting: Crawford said he knew nothing of medical staff's plan to give him time off after every 4 games until this morning.

https://twitter.com/...292056047140864

The communication on this team gets worse and worse as the year goes on. What part of this organization isn't totally fucked up?

[Dick Pole Upside]

I think whoever "speaks" for the team makes sh!t up when speaking to the media half the time. The expectations for the subjects of discussion (in this case Crawford) are to just go along with whatever is said to tamp down the media hysteria. Based on some of his responses to other situations, I don't think Crawford likes to play this game, especially when comments sound like they are coming straight from someone else's posterior (BV, Ben, trainers, etc.). So he stays honest to himself and says, "Nope... Nobody told me."

Old Guard players liked Tito and Theo because they would come up with some whoppers to cover for them. It wasn't necessarily an indication that "communication" was better. Everyone expected Tito or Theo to come up with some plausible cover story to protect the players so that they didn't need to deal with anything.

It's a culture of fibbing and lying that I don't think Crawford enjoys being complicit with. BV, Ben and others should know this by now (Speculation and mangled syntax.)

[YTF]

OK so the big question now is...........How much interest is there going to be for an outfielder who averages slightly over 20 million per year for another 5 years, may or may not need Tommy John surgery, but has put off the surgery that he may or may not need for a team that wants him to play now, but is hesitant to play him like they need him to play now? Honest to god.....who is running this abortion of a baseball team?

[Doctor G]

https://twitter.com/...292056047140864

The communication on this team gets worse and worse as the year goes on. What part of this organization isn't totally fucked up?

It appears that the FO is using the training staff to impose lineup decisions on the manager. this is just as emasculating as the treatment many see Ben Cherington getting during the managerial hiring process.


Knowing Bobby's history with the Mets, this will end with a very loud bang.

Edited by Doctor G, 28 July 2012 - 04:12 PM.

[koufax32]

It appears that the FO is using the training staff to impose lineup decisions on the manager. this is just as emasculating as the treatment many see Ben Cherington getting during the managerial hiring process.


Knowing Bobby's history with the Mets, this will end with a very loud bang.

That could be a very good thing.

[Harry Hooper]

As noted in the game thread today, Crawford (and the whole team) had a day off Thursday.


Addendum: Apparently, the justification for sitting Saturday was that the next 4 games starting with Sunday's game would be against righty starting pitchers. As with the Thursday off-day, this again makes no sense.

Given Nava's better numbers vs. RHP, BobbyV seeking to win games was right in wanting Crawford to play Saturday (against Sabathia and in Yankee Stadium). Nava could play any one of the next four games to get Carl that essential rest.

If Carl wasn't stored on the bench yesterday for a potential trade, then there are elements in the organization pursuing other agendas besides winning. Great news.

Edited by Harry Hooper, 29 July 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[knucklecup]

If there is any chance at a Reyes deal, you make that trade instantly. Take on Bell if need be.

[Nuf Ced]

I'm only left to conclude that the team is having Crawford put off the elbow surgery in the hopes that they can dump him and a portion of his contract on a team willing to take on damaged goods.

If he isn't moved this week, I'll be shocked if he doesn't finally go under the knife shortly thereafter. What good is a player known as a defensive outfielder if he can't throw the ball back to the infield without fear of having his elbow blow out?

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

I'm only left to conclude that the team is having Crawford put off the elbow surgery in the hopes that they can dump him and a portion of his contract on a team willing to take on damaged goods.

If he isn't moved this week, I'll be shocked if he doesn't finally go under the knife shortly thereafter. What good is a player known as a defensive outfielder if he can't throw the ball back to the infield without fear of having his elbow blow out?

This is more or less where I am right now - this season is hopeless, Crawford looks awful and he's clearly not buying into the Sox plan with regards to his elbow. I guess my only question is whether they put the surgery off until Sept 1 to see if they can find soneone foolish enough take him during the waiver trade period.

[RedOctober3829]

Crawford told me before the game he'll gauge circumstances -- the team's, his -- in about 7-to-10 days before considering TJ surgery.

https://twitter.com/...730113439272960

[CaptainLaddie]

What a monster disaster this deal has become.

[koufax32]

What a monster disaster this deal has become.

Too early right now but it is on it's way to the Barry Zito, Mike Hampton, Vernon Wells pantheon of crappy contracts.

[CaptainLaddie]

Too early right now but it is on it's way to the Barry Zito, Mike Hampton, Vernon Wells pantheon of crappy contracts.

First two seasons under new contract:

Hampton: 4.2 WAR
Zito: 3.1
Wells: 3.1
Crawford: .1

Crawford has to go on a tear just to get CLOSE. This is.... the worst.

[crystalline]

I am genuinely curious about the front office's rationale for Crawford's contract. From memory, he was a 100-115 slg-heavy OPS+ player his entire career except for his free agent year when he hit 135. I have to guess that either they predicted a permanent upturn where he had become a top-tier offensive outfielder, or they really believed his defensive value was extraordinary.
Both the AAV and the years seemed high when he signed, and even more so now that we realize there is a fairly serious budget crunch.

Unless someone writes a book about the late Theo years, we may never know.

[Seels]

and just like that Crawford decides he should be the one to catch a ball in very shallow left field, throws it in, and winces. Why catch and throw it in if its an issue?

[koufax32]

First two seasons under new contract:

Hampton: 4.2 WAR
Zito: 3.1
Wells: 3.1
Crawford: .1

Crawford has to go on a tear just to get CLOSE. This is.... the worst.

So far, yes. I think that would have to be judged over the life of the contract.

.1 though is...yeah.

[Cellar-Door]

and just like that Crawford decides he should be the one to catch a ball in very shallow left field, throws it in, and winces. Why catch and throw it in if its an issue?

be ause if the SS catches it going backward Ichiro might score?

[glennhoffmania]

Of all the deals Theo made, this one to me was the biggest head scratcher immediately after the fact taking into account the whole situation. Shitty deals like Renteria and Lackey I could at least understand at the time. Taking into account positional need, the market comps, etc., they seemed at least somewhat defensible at the time. When I learned of Crawford's deal, I couldn't think of a decent rationale. Too much money, seems to be very sensitive going to a media-crazy market, makes lineup construction tough, minimizes one of his biggest assets (defense at Fenway), coming off a career year that most never thought he'd repeat. I'll never understand why Theo thought this deal made any sense.

Edited by glennhoffmania, 29 July 2012 - 11:09 PM.

[P'tucket, rhymes with...]

I am genuinely curious about the front office's rationale for Crawford's contract. From memory, he was a 100-115 slg-heavy OPS+ player his entire career except for his free agent year when he hit 135. I have to guess that either they predicted a permanent upturn where he had become a top-tier offensive outfielder, or they really believed his defensive value was extraordinary.
Both the AAV and the years seemed high when he signed, and even more so now that we realize there is a fairly serious budget crunch.

Unless someone writes a book about the late Theo years, we may never know.

The rationale before or after the Nationals blew the market open with their signing of Jayson Werth?

[crystalline]

The rationale before or after the Nationals blew the market open with their signing of Jayson Werth?

Yeah, I get your point that the Werth contract pushed up Crawford's price on the market.

But I don't agree that it explains the signing. The front office should have a multi-year time horizon, and if Crawford's price was too high they could have saved the money and not made a big free agent signing. They then could use the cash in the future, to extend their own players, or to buy players in trades by taking on bad contracts (e.g. Beckett).

Edited by crystalline, 29 July 2012 - 11:21 PM.

[Doctor G]

after watching CC destroy the Sox when he was a Ray, Theo was afraid he would continue to do it as A Yankee.Hence the clause in his contract about a team flipping him to NY.

[SMU_Sox]

We know why they signed Crawford. The front office analyzed every aspect of his game and justified to upper management why he was worth the contract they were going to offer him. There were multiple articles about how they broke down the value he would bring to the team on the bases, and defensively. They also were bullish on his bat. Remember, the last two years with the Rays CC had very good years at the plate.

Some of us didn't think he was worth it at the time because those skills wouldn't translate as well at Fenway and that it was a bad position to give that big a FA contract to when they had other options either in FA or in the minors. It's not like the FO was flippant or lackadaisickle on the analysis regarded CC and his enormous contract. They just took a risk and the asset has under-performed (to say the least).