15 replies to this topic

[SoxScout]

http://insider.espn....based-25-talent

1. New England Patriots

Truth be told, our statistical analysis last year said the Patriots had the best 25-and-under talent in 2011, but we went with our gut instead. Lesson learned. New England had 15 significant contributors last season who qualify this season as well, but we really need only to discuss the three who helped produce the No. 3 offensive DVOA in the league. If you can believe it, tight ends Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez are still only 23 years old. Whether we look at standard or advanced stats, Gronkowski had a record-setting season: He was the first tight end ever to lead the NFL in receiving touchdowns, and also had the best receiving DYAR (defense-adjusted yards above replacement) for any tight end since 1991. To put the latter in perspective, the second-through-fourth-best tight end seasons were clustered at 357 or 358 DYAR; Gronkowski beat that by about 100 (459).

Of course, lest we forget Hernandez in New England's double-shot of matchup nightmares; he led all tight ends by breaking 21 tackles and he actually carried the ball 11 times in the team's final five games. Nate Solder (24) helped make huge tight end seasons possible by giving up only 2.5 blown-block sacks in his rookie year. With the retirement of Matt Light, Solder will switch from right tackle to left tackle, further increasing his value.

Finally, the Patriots added LB Dont'a Hightower (22) and DE Chandler Jones (22) in the draft, both of whom should contribute this season and in the future.

Times are good in New England.

Pretty much what was noticed in the updated depth chart thread.

[bsj]

This has to be incredibly scary to a lot of teams in this league.

[collings94]

Awesome. This reminds me whenever I think that the Pats have been good for over a decade and the window is closing. Thank God for BB. Wait, scratch that, Thank BB for BB.

[Tony C]

nice to see the divisional competition low on this list -- Dolphins at 25, Bills at 29 and Jets at 30.

[dbn]

nice to see the divisional competition low on this list -- Dolphins at 25, Bills at 29 and Jets at 30.

That can't be! Both Sanchez and Tebow are 25-and-under?!?!

[Harry Hooper]

That can't be! Both Sanchez and Tebow are 25-and-under?!?!

In an alternate dream universe for NFL fans, the Jets agreed to do Hard Knocks again this summer.

[Ed Hillel]

Pretty good for a guy who can't draft.

[bowiac]

Pretty good for a guy who can't draft.

It's kind of amazing how much criticism Belichick takes for his drafting, given the Patriots have been at, or near the top of these kinds of lists for a few years now.

Especially seeing what kind of disarray the Red Sox have fallen into, I can't imagine life without the hoodie.

[Rico Guapo]

It's kind of amazing how much criticism Belichick takes for his drafting, given the Patriots have been at, or near the top of these kinds of lists for a few years now

This is especially true when you take into account where they are in the draft order every year.

[FL4WL3SS]

This is especially true when you take into account where they are in the draft order every year.

First round last 10 years
2012: 21, 25
2011: 17
2010: 27
2009: --
2008: 10
2007: 24
2006: 21
2005: 32
2004: 21, 32
2003: 13

[dcmissle]

He's averaging a Conference Championship game every 2 years over his first 12, with 5 SB appearances. A lot of it is Brady, but credit is due for drafting and developing him.

The Pats have had some bad draft classes and paid for them, just like everyone else. I'd much rather build a team this way than go through what the Eagles attempted last season. Philly may be great this season, but it seems like that first year of transplanted parts most often has to be written off.

[Salva135]

I guess I'm just not as excited as some others are about this ranking. They basically reference Gronk, Hernandez, Solder, Jones, and Hightower. Gronk is locked up, but Hernandez could be gone in two years. Solder has a tremendous ceiling, but he's still developing and isn't exactly an All-Pro yet. And Jones and Hightower have yet to play a snap - what makes them any better than the top draft picks of the other 31 teams? Don't get me wrong, I love what we have right now with these young guys, but you would think a Patriots homer wrote this.

And above all that, our franchise QB is just under 35, not 25. I'm not ready to proclaim another decade of glory just yet.

[Toe Nash]

I guess I'm just not as excited as some others are about this ranking. They basically reference Gronk, Hernandez, Solder, Jones, and Hightower. Gronk is locked up, but Hernandez could be gone in two years. Solder has a tremendous ceiling, but he's still developing and isn't exactly an All-Pro yet. And Jones and Hightower have yet to play a snap - what makes them any better than the top draft picks of the other 31 teams? Don't get me wrong, I love what we have right now with these young guys, but you would think a Patriots homer wrote this.

And above all that, our franchise QB is just under 35, not 25. I'm not ready to proclaim another decade of glory just yet.

Oh no, they have the guy who just had the best season ever by a tight end locked up and the first opportunity to re-sign a guy who is probably a top-5 TE.

They don't specifically mention these guys who are also under 25, but I imagine they factored into the ranking:
Chung (24)
Ballard (24)
Deaderick (24)
Dowling (24)
Mallett (24)
McCourty (24)
Ridley (23)
Spikes (24)
Vereen (23)

Dowling and Mallett haven't done much so far, but clearly have talent. Chung, Spikes and McCourty have shown themselves to be solid players. All have room to improve.

[Mystic Merlin]

I guess I'm just not as excited as some others are about this ranking. They basically reference Gronk, Hernandez, Solder, Jones, and Hightower.

I think it's risky to assume that the players they specifically mentioned (Spikes and Chung are notably absent) are meant to represent an exhaustive rather than an illustrative account.

Gronk is locked up, but Hernandez could be gone in two years.

And Hernandez could blow out his knee. I mean, ya? The Pats have a great cap situation, and, what's more, Wes Welker ain't gonna be around in three years. They'll have the money to pay him. In any case, why it's important that he's an impending FA in 2 years (which is a small lifetime in the NFL world) is not clear to me; maybe by itself it's something to worry about, but if you look at the cap structure of the club, it isn't.

Solder has a tremendous ceiling, but he's still developing and isn't exactly an All-Pro yet.

The point was he flashed at RT in Y1, and will be likely handed the reins to LT in Y2. No small feat on the Patriots. And, well, it IS an U-25 list, which itself implies a lot of projection. It would be something if they had 5+ players U-25 who were already Pro Bowlers.

And Jones and Hightower have yet to play a snap - what makes them any better than the top draft picks of the other 31 teams? Don't get me wrong, I love what we have right now with these young guys, but you would think a Patriots homer wrote this.

I took them as postscripts, not central cogs to the case for the Pats. And nothing makes them any better than the other top draft picks, but it seems that - given the other U-25 talent they already had - adding a couple more talented players to that pool was gravy to the writer. But, who knows. I do think that you'd have more success arguing against the Pats case if you compared them to other teams, although I think we all know that almost every single one of those other teams would be at least as vulnerable to the contract/cap worries and projection leaps that you pointed out re, the Patriots (and what really separates 1 from 2 or 2 from 3 on this lists anyways?).

And above all that, our franchise QB is just under 35, not 25. I'm not ready to proclaim another decade of glory just yet.

Neither is anyone else. It's a bit odd you'd say this, given that the Pats' detractors are MUCH more resolute in their pounding the 'Brady window' drum. To them, we may as well fold up the franchise, because how could they possibly survive losing an all-time great QB? Personally, I think those of us who do think there's life after Brady - and, yes, BB - have projected a much lower sense of certainty; all I'd say is that they have rock-solid ownership - which is a common factor among the long-standing great franchises - and have turned over a decaying '08/'09 roster into a predominantly younger one, with an old QB. It isn't an easy feat, especially when you've won 14 and 13 games, as well as a conf. title, in the meantime. Cause for optimism, I'd say. Implying that others are 'ready to proclaim another decade of glory' is a cheap, useless tactic. It doesn't engage with anyone.

[Salva135]

I think it's risky to assume that the players they specifically mentioned (Spikes and Chung are notably absent) are meant to represent an exhaustive rather than an illustrative account.



And Hernandez could blow out his knee. I mean, ya? The Pats have a great cap situation, and, what's more, Wes Welker ain't gonna be around in three years. They'll have the money to pay him. In any case, why it's important that he's an impending FA in 2 years (which is a small lifetime in the NFL world) is not clear to me; maybe by itself it's something to worry about, but if you look at the cap structure of the club, it isn't.



The point was he flashed at RT in Y1, and will be likely handed the reins to LT in Y2. No small feat on the Patriots. And, well, it IS an U-25 list, which itself implies a lot of projection. It would be something if they had 5+ players U-25 who were already Pro Bowlers.



I took them as postscripts, not central cogs to the case for the Pats. And nothing makes them any better than the other top draft picks, but it seems that - given the other U-25 talent they already had - adding a couple more talented players to that pool was gravy to the writer. But, who knows. I do think that you'd have more success arguing against the Pats case if you compared them to other teams, although I think we all know that almost every single one of those other teams would be at least as vulnerable to the contract/cap worries and projection leaps that you pointed out re, the Patriots (and what really separates 1 from 2 or 2 from 3 on this lists anyways?).



Neither is anyone else. It's a bit odd you'd say this, given that the Pats' detractors are MUCH more resolute in their pounding the 'Brady window' drum. To them, we may as well fold up the franchise, because how could they possibly survive losing an all-time great QB? Personally, I think those of us who do think there's life after Brady - and, yes, BB - have projected a much lower sense of certainty; all I'd say is that they have rock-solid ownership - which is a common factor among the long-standing great franchises - and have turned over a decaying '08/'09 roster into a predominantly younger one, with an old QB. It isn't an easy feat, especially when you've won 14 and 13 games, as well as a conf. title, in the meantime. Cause for optimism, I'd say. Implying that others are 'ready to proclaim another decade of glory' is a cheap, useless tactic. It doesn't engage with anyone.

All fair points. I don't have access to the rest of that Insider article, so I can't see how the rest of the rankings went, but I suppose it is just an under-25 list, and not meant to be a ranking of the young nucleus of each team. I certainly wouldn't take the Pats' nucleus over, say, the Lions, but Suh, Megatron, Avril, and a few others are 25 or older and wouldn't count toward this list.

Again, I'm very excited about some of the young players on this roster, but I'm not sitting back and thinking, "wow, this team is going to be stacked years from now." There are a lot of question marks... which, of course, is the nature of being that young. I guess I'm trying to take more from a simple ranking than I should.

Edited by Salva135, 17 July 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[shlincoln]

Actually, Suh did count and the Lions were number two with Stafford, Suh, Young, Best, Leshoure, Levy, Delmas, Reiff and Spievey.

Not sure I agree with that though considering two of the guys on that list haven't played down.