114 replies to this topic

[FFCI]

Whether offended, exasperated or if you prefer to insert whatever word you choose - this really is a non-issue.

If Ortiz wants a big contract - he has to perform. If he performs - great for us as Red Sox fans.

The Red Sox shouldn't give him what he wants because of his "tantrum." Tantrum is in quotes - because if it can be a controversy, then papers sell, sports talk shows (not just local media) gets more viewers, etc.

Ortiz is in a tough position - because the only way he gets a big deal is if the public outcry of RSN "forces" management to sign him to the deal he wants.

The Red Sox are in a perfect spot. His production means that if someone wants to sign him - it will cost draft picks - and in the new draft format - that would be the equivalent of trading him for approximately 2 first round draft picks - more value than they can get in a trade.

It's doubtful to me, and probably bad business for any team to give up a first round draft pick to obtain Ortiz for only 2 seasons - why sell valuable long-term pieces for short-term solutions?

If it happens - I'm happy as a Red Sox fan and an Ortiz fan.

More likely, the most money he can get is through a 1-year arbitration award - almost surely more than he'd get in an AAV deal over just 2-years.

The fact that he's lobbying for 2-years is more concerning and more reason not to give it to him. If he believes he'll produce at a high level - he'll get more money, continue to be the leader in Boston and further build his legacy as a Red Sox. By "demanding" a 2-year deal, and be wiling to join someone else's team (hard to walk in and be the clubhouse leader immediately) - shows a lack of faith in himself to be capable of producing and earning the salary.

As stated above - as Red Sox fans - it should be a non-story. No "trade the jerk" reaction needed.

We keep him this season and he produces - good for us.

At the end of the season - he resigns through arbitration - good for us. Or, he declines arbitration, goes elsewhere and we get draft pick compensation - which can only be acquired this way and helps build the organization better for the future - good for us.

It's win-win for us as Red Sox fans. Sit back, crack a cold one and enjoy the summer. With the new playoff format, the Red Sox still have a legitimate shot at the postseason (ranked 2nd behind the NYY in the AL East still by baseball prospecust at 33%).

[TheShynessClinic]

No one is trashing him? This thread is full of "shut the fuck up" and "he's fat and old and a PED abuser" etc... Even you bring up the suggestion that his performance (or lack thereof) is related to substance abuse. Do you think he recent performance is the result of some new, as yet undetectable designer drug?

Yes.

But then again, I assume most players are using something.

[lexrageorge]

Are folks seriously arguing a trade of Ortiz solely because he expressed a desire for a multi-year deal in an interview? Really?

He was paid above market value this offseason; actually, it may very well have been way above market value. But there's no law that says he has to be happy about it. This is a complete non-story. If the team decides to give him a 2yr extension, I'm OK with it. If they decide to take their chances this offseason instead, I'm OK with that as well. Personally, I prefer the former, but the team has a whole bunch of problems right now, so don't be too surprised if we all have to wait until December for this to get resolved.

[Dogman2]

Yes.

But then again, I assume most players are using something.

Nope. Losing 30 pounds at his age is paying huge dividends.

[OCD SS]

Nope. Losing 30 pounds at his age is paying huge dividends.

Will he be insulted if his new 2 year contract includes a weight clause?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Will he be insulted if his new 2 year contract includes a weight clause?

Sure. He lost this weight on his own. He's talked about it a little bit this year, in order to keep his bat quicker.

[Dogman2]

Possibly. Or he could look at it that the team finally offered 2 years and he can keep the weight off for that period of time and sign.

I offer Ortiz a contract right now. 2/28 and thanks for hitting for 10 years and losing 30 pounds, proving you can still hit.

Edited by Dogman2, 05 July 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[wutang112878]

Someone, like his agent, needs to explain to David how this process works. The annual mid-season rants after a great hitting streak, or winning the HR derby, or hitting 400HRs arent helpful. Because once free agency comes around its been evident that the market he thinks he deserves isnt there for him, or he simply hasnt used any legit offers as leverage against the Sox. One could even make the case that these rants have a negative effect with fans which makes him slightly less of a 'fan hero' type player, and as a result could actually reduce his bargaining position.

If he really wants a multi-year deal he has to produce and then not accept anything less in free agency and not do things like accept arbitration. Perhaps his agent could remind him that doing that was his choice and he probably did that for a reason.

[Doctor G]

His OPS+ was 153 last year. It's 162 now. Your point has little merit if actual results are examined.

He's always produced save for 2009 when he got off to that horrible start. He's the only fucking guy on the team producing now. He's absolutely right to feel that while the club falls all over themselves to hand out huge deals to players either massively underprodicing (Adrian Gonzalez, Crawford, Lackey) or simply burns $12 million for nothing (Jenks) he continues to pound the ball year after year and yet has to wrangle for one year at a time.

Pay the man his money. 2/30. Call it good. And we can all stop getting offended by this type of stuff.

I agree completely This man is the equivalent on the Sox to what Willie (Pops) Stargell was to the Pittsburgh Pirates. And Pops kept hitting till he was 40 playing 1B on a regular basis.
David has earned the right to retire as a Boston Red Sox player.Given his contributions on the field and in the community , I don't blame him for being pissed.

Edited by Doctor G, 05 July 2012 - 10:19 AM.

[KiltedFool]

You really think the timing is accidental? The time for him to highlight his achievements is when he is producing and no one else is, he gets a lot more contrast by being healthy and producing while millions of dollars in multiyear contracts are sitting on the bench. Yes he has a right to feel slighted, yes he's a diva and a drama queen and yes he wants to have a multiyear deal. I'd like a pony while we're making wishes. Just don't think this wasn't done intentionally, Ortiz is using the spotlight while it's on him to lobby. Won't do him any good, he won't get multi-year offers that he'll be interested in accepting next offseason and either be back with the Sox on a one year or go somewhere else for significantly less out of pique.

Personally I enjoy Ortiz grumbling and enjoy this thread but that's because of external factors.

[AnkleStigmata]

I get a kick out of people who in essence say Ortiz brought this on himself by accepting a security contract in 2006 instead of seeking a big FA jackpot when he had his best shot - giving him shit for not putting a gun to Sox ownership's heads back then. I look at the other side of the coin and say the Sox have gotten quite a bargain over the totality of the 10 seasons he's been here. Given the large piles of cash the club has set afire in some other cases I'd have no problem at all with giving him 2/30 or thereabouts right now. At worst it's a slight overpay (and yes, potentially a bit of opportunity cost) but a modest and well-deserved bonus for past performance*. At best the deal winds up still being good value or even an outright bargain.

* unfortutnately the rest of the PED acronym compels this asterisk

[YTF]

No one is trashing him? This thread is full of "shut the fuck up" and "he's fat and old and a PED abuser" etc... Even you bring up the suggestion that his performance (or lack thereof) is related to substance abuse. Do you think he recent performance is the result of some new, as yet undetectable designer drug?

I wouldn't consider the STFU part as trashing him it just means shut the fuck up and I'm guessing for most it's the timing. Why are we getting this now?

[FFCI]

I get a kick out of people who in essence say Ortiz brought this on himself by accepting a security contract in 2006 instead of seeking a big FA jackpot when he had his best shot - giving him shit for not putting a gun to Sox ownership's heads back then. I look at the other side of the coin and say the Sox have gotten quite a bargain over the totality of the 10 seasons he's been here. Given the large piles of cash the club has set afire in some other cases I'd have no problem at all with giving him 2/30 or thereabouts right now. At worst it's a slight overpay (and yes, potentially a bit of opportunity cost) but a modest and well-deserved bonus for past performance*. At best the deal winds up still being good value or even an outright bargain.

* unfortutnately the rest of the PED acronym compels this asterisk

Paying for past performance is bad baseball business.

As Red Sox fans, most of us are pretty loyal to the laundry - and whether Papi is here or not - we will be. I want the Red Sox to sign as many young players to great deals like they did for Papi - I want every deal they sign to look like a bargain - that is much more preferable than the alternative.

At this point, I want the Red Sox to do what their doing. Speak well of David, ignore his business posturing and offer him arbitration at the end of the year or a two-year deal if there's value to that. (For example, if arbitration will end up at $15 million - and he'll take a 2-year $20 million dollar deal).

If he's leaves for free agency - God bless him - and I'll be gratefully rooting for whatever additional prospects the Red Sox gain with his departure.

When his career is over, the Red Sox can reward him for being such a bargain - they can build him a statue, pay him a salary as a roving instructor/ambassador/whatever - even help him market and sell hot sauce and salsa - just don't create luxury tax problems for the team by overpaying...

Edited by FFCI, 05 July 2012 - 11:12 AM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

So, if they offer him arb again, and he accepts it, they'll have paid him 2 years at over $30M. Didn't the rumors suggest they offered him 2 years at under $20M this past off-season? How is this an intelligent way to deal with things?

Not wanting to overpay is nice in theory, but it involves having a clue on how to reallocate the resources- and the Sox have shown zero ability that they know how to do that. They piss away tens of millions every year, but are suddenly petrified of overpaying a franchise great? I don't get it.

[glennhoffmania]

So, if they offer him arb again, and he accepts it, they'll have paid him 2 years at over $30M. Didn't the rumors suggest they offered him 2 years at under $20M this past off-season? How is this an intelligent way to deal with things?

Because if they thought he might be done, they save about $5m and a roster spot in 2013. It was a gamble but it wasn't necessarily a stupid one if they had reason to believe he wouldn't continue to be productive. I'm not saying I agree with it but I can understand the thought process.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

So, if they offer him arb again, and he accepts it, they'll have paid him 2 years at over $30M. Didn't the rumors suggest they offered him 2 years at under $20M this past off-season? How is this an intelligent way to deal with things?

Not wanting to overpay is nice in theory, but it involves having a clue on how to reallocate the resources- and the Sox have shown zero ability that they know how to do that. They piss away tens of millions every year, but are suddenly petrified of overpaying a franchise great? I don't get it.

I take Papi's quote as him saying he won't accept arbitration after this season. Other than that, I completely agree with you. Since Allard Baird came on board to lead the group in 2006, Red Sox pro player scouting has been pretty damn dreadful.

Pretty much the only players who excelled after acquisition were known to have been followed primarily by amateur scouting (like Salty), to have been targeted by the pro scouts back when Peter Woodfork, David Chadd, and Tom Moore were on staff (like Beltre), or were bullpen pitchers.

In short, I have no confidence that the money saved by not signing Ortiz would be used well at all.

[absintheofmalaise]

Ortiz lost the weight because of his cholesterol too.

I understand the timing is bad, but I really don't get the hue and cry about this. It was also in an interview, so who knows what they asked to get that response. It could have been follow up questions about the statement he made a week or two ago about the same subject and he bitched about how the media just magnifies everything. It could have been on his own. Who knows.

IMO, they way that Ortiz has totally reinvented his approach at the plate should carry over for the next year or two, barring injury. His bat speed is still there as well. The troubles he had a few years ago when he started slow were about 90% mechanical and he ironed those out.

I wanted them to sign him to a two year deal last year, or at least, a one year with an option year tacked on because I thought he'd still be able to produce at a high level and because it would avoid just this type of situation. IMO, the FO screwed up not doing that.

[Myt1]

Serious question: why are folks so offended by this?

Because Ortiz is talented at playing baseball in a way that people here will never be talented at anything and he should shut up and offer to pay the team to play the game that we all love. And because people here would never dream of complaining that other people were hired from outside of their organization and make a more money and/or have more job security despite being constantly out of work and/or less productive.

Obviously.

[trekfan55]

The biggest problem for Papi, IMO is that there was no market for him last year. Whether there is a market for him this coming offseason is yet to be seen.

He might have been offended by the arbitration offer but at the end of the day he was not forced in any way, shape or form to accept it. Once he did, he was locked into a minimum of 12.5MM for 2012. Again, he accepted arb because no team made him an offer (or at least he did not get one he liked) and because he knew he'd still make the big bucks in 2012.

He is offended by the contracts that have handed out? well, on one hand he may be right, but there is always an overpay when teams seek free agents, and it seems that the Sox always have to pay a premium to have FAs join them. The time for Ortiz to capitalize on this was in about 4 years ago, when he would have become a FA at a much younger age, the MFY had actual room for a DH and he could have sat down and contemplate competing bids and get his $$$. Knowing the SOX FO's MO it's quite possible he would have walked.

I'm not sure what all this does, except that it further damages the team, which is at a very low point right now. If he indeed is dead set on rejecting arbitration I at least hope he has some very serious meetings with his agent so he can explain to him what his possibilities are of getting a multi year deal.

And as for trading him, Youks was traded (or dumped) because he was the odd man out in the Gonzo-WMB-Youkd carousell, BobbyV had to continually juggle his lineups and put Gonzo out of posittion to get Youks in the lineup. There is no such glut with Ortiz, so no trade will happen, IMO.

[maufman]

Is there such a thing as "fairness" in business? I believe there is -- but it's a narrow concept, and it's certainly no less narrow when you're taking about grown men who earn eight-figure salaries to play a child's game.

When someone invokes fairness in the course of a business negotiation, that person usually is pleading for a better deal than his/her legal rights and bargaining power dictate he/she should get. It's a perfectly legitimate tactic -- but it communicates weakness. I'm not offended that Papi chose to negotiate in the press, but he did himself no favors.

Iirc, the expectation is that the Sox will want to get under the luxury tax threshold in 2013, but may be willing to go over again in 2014. If that's the case, Papi may get his 2-year deal -- the FO might be willing to take the risk he's cooked by 2014 to trim their payroll for luxury tax purposes in 2013.

[Ed Hillel]

Ortiz is offended by the lack of value expressed by other teams/Red Sox, and he really has every right to be. You don't think there are teams not kicking themselves for putting up 2/25 or something like that for what Ortiz is doing right now? He's frustrated with how he's valued, and he expressed it to the media. So what? He's playing at an exceptional level, and he's earned his right to speak his mind. I'd be a lot more upset if ownership lets him walk to Baltimore or Tampa because he wants a second year than I would be at Ortiz for being upset about not getting the offer.

And why in the sam hell would we trade David Ortiz? One bad west coast trip (which every single Red Sox team ever has had), and now we're going to trade away one of the best hitters in baseball?

Edited by Ed Hillel, 05 July 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[glennhoffmania]

Even before this incident occurred I was thinking about what teams would want Ortiz, either this year or next year. Is it a foregone conclusion that he can't play 1B on a regular basis? When he's been out there he looks more than adequate. The injury concerns are another issue. As Tom said earlier, if he's limited to a DH role I really don't see where else he can go.

Tampa's not going to eat Scott's $6m salary.

Baltimore just got Thome.

Texas is all set.

Chicago is all set.

Cleveland has Hafner.

LAA seems to be all set.

Maybe Detroit?

But I wonder if an NL team would consider him to be a 1B and hope he can stay healthy in the field for 2-3 months.

[BroodsSexton]

Is there anything to the notion that the Sox should incentivize guys to take extensions by showing that they will overpay to keep the player in the event that the extension provides extra value? Or is that just third-order economic thinking or some sort that shouldn't be taken seriously.

[Manramsclan]

Olney just weighed in on EEI with this:

"(T)he bottom line is that the market doesn't dictate a higher salary than what he's getting from Boston. That's a pure and simple fact," and adding, "

While it may be frustrating to him, he's making the best money that he can make in baseball by doing what he's doing with the Red Sox."

These points of view are the most salient points, and illuminate maufman's point even more: this is not about fairness, it's about business, and Papi's frustration is a sign of weakness. He has two choices: take a pay cut for multiple years either with another team or the Sox, or stay with the Sox and continue to go to arbitration for a higher one year payday.

To us mere mortals, with millions of dollars involved those options sound pretty incredible. To a guy who has arguably done more than any other player to deliver championships and a sustained level of success for the Red Sox over the past decades it's a bitter pill to swallow.

Edited by Manramsclan, 05 July 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[wutang112878]

Because Ortiz is talented at playing baseball in a way that people here will never be talented at anything and he should shut up and offer to pay the team to play the game that we all love. And because people here would never dream of complaining that other people were hired from outside of their organization and make a more money and/or have more job security despite being constantly out of work and/or less productive.

I dont think this fairly summarizes what those of us who are upset are annoyed about. I will fully admit, when looking at the production from the active roster its clear Ortiz is and has been a bargain for sometime. What annoys me is that if he doesnt like what the Sox offered, he has had the opportunity the past few years to find out how the rest of the market valued him, and I guess he didnt find that acceptable either. So either everyone on the market is a little worried about giving him multi-year deals and everyone is incorrectly calculating risk, or he needs a new agent. None of those things are really going to get solved by complaining to the media, and again this would be a great time for his agent to step in and explain that to him.

But most importantly, its about the time and the place. He isnt getting an extension mid-season, the team isnt playing great baseball, the clubhouse isnt the best and the team has already had their fair share of distractions. So if he wants to voice these opinions, the ideal time would be at the start of the off-season when the RedSox might actually take these threats seriously if, and a big if, he can find a multi-year deal elsewhere to use against them.

[Shelterdog]

I dont think this fairly summarizes what those of us who are upset are annoyed about. I will fully admit, when looking at the production from the active roster its clear Ortiz is and has been a bargain for sometime. What annoys me is that if he doesnt like what the Sox offered, he has had the opportunity the past few years to find out how the rest of the market valued him, and I guess he didnt find that acceptable either. So either everyone on the market is a little worried about giving him multi-year deals and everyone is incorrectly calculating risk, or he needs a new agent. None of those things are really going to get solved by complaining to the media, and again this would be a great time for his agent to step in and explain that to him.

But most importantly, its about the time and the place. He isnt getting an extension mid-season, the team isnt playing great baseball, the clubhouse isnt the best and the team has already had their fair share of distractions. So if he wants to voice these opinions, the ideal time would be at the start of the off-season when the RedSox might actually take these threats seriously if, and a big if, he can find a multi-year deal elsewhere to use against them.

You might want to re-read Myt1's post. I don't think it says what you think it says.

[Dogman2]

You might want to re-read Myt1's post. I don't think it says what you think it says.

Yeah, he completely wiffed on that meaning.

[Beomoose]

Players hate Arbitration, some who've been asked about it point out plainly that the adversarial process creates/enhances bad feelings between the club and players. And that seems to be what Papi is saying, no more arb even if it's just starting down that road as a prelude to a 1-year deal. I've no problem with that complaint. To me, he's hit more than well enough to warrant a 2-year deal and has the right to say "pay me my money."

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Players hate Arbitration, some who've been asked about it point out plainly that the adversarial process creates/enhances bad feelings between the club and players. And that seems to be what Papi is saying, no more arb even if it's just starting down that road as a prelude to a 1-year deal. I've no problem with that complaint. To me, he's hit more than well enough to warrant a 2-year deal and has the right to say "pay me my money."

Have the Sox ever actually gone to arb with Papi? His contracts have usually been settled before the case itself.

[smastroyin]

I think we had this exact thread about Pedro back in the ezboard days.

I'll tell you, reading a page of [this post has been deleted and cannot be recovered]* is a lot better than reading this thread yet again.

*- or whatever it actually says

[MikeM]

Not wanting to overpay is nice in theory, but it involves having a clue on how to reallocate the resources- and the Sox have shown zero ability that they know how to do that.

In essence, isn't that all the more reason to stay the 1 year course here though? This is a franchise that desperately needs to stop the long term bleeding. Again, looking for alternative ways to cut ourselves is not the answer there imo.

There's still another half season to go here before we should even begin to speculate the possibility of a multi-year contract on a soon to be 37 year old DH. Although i guess if we are looking to officially put that era of enlightenment in the rear view mirror, and finish taking this franchise full circle, a scenario of paying a guy based on past performance like this one is all that's really left to complete that cycle.

[Beomoose]

Have the Sox ever actually gone to arb with Papi? His contracts have usually been settled before the case itself.

He signed this year just hours before the hearing started, far enough in that he probably had more than his fill of the process already.

[trekfan55]

He signed this year just hours before the hearing started, far enough in that he probably had more than his fill of the process already.

The really ugly part of arbitration is when a Red Sox representative has to try and convince the Arbitrator that the player in question is not worth what he says he is. He has to stand up and explain why Papi does not deserve a raise and bring up a bunch of bad stuff about him (baseball wise). Once the decision is reached, the player and the FO must try and put this behind them and start playing baseball. It would be extremely hard for Papi to give it his all after going through this (not saying he would tank the season, but his mentality certainly changes. As much as his agent prepared him, I don't think it's at all similar to hearing it.

That is the reason why this FO has never gone to arbitration.

[scotian1]

Olney just weighed in on EEI with this:

"(T)he bottom line is that the market doesn't dictate a higher salary than what he's getting from Boston. That's a pure and simple fact," and adding, "

While it may be frustrating to him, he's making the best money that he can make in baseball by doing what he's doing with the Red Sox."

These points of view are the most salient points, and illuminate maufman's point even more: this is not about fairness, it's about business, and Papi's frustration is a sign of weakness. He has two choices: take a pay cut for multiple years either with another team or the Sox, or stay with the Sox and continue to go to arbitration for a higher one year payday.

To us mere mortals, with millions of dollars involved those options sound pretty incredible. To a guy who has arguably done more than any other player to deliver championships and a sustained level of success for the Red Sox over the past decades it's a bitter pill to swallow.

I think the major issue is pride. When you see the money the Sox have spent on shortstops that failed. Drew, Lackey, and Crawford all given multi-year contracts it is pretty easy to see where anyone who produced like Ortiz has over his Red Sox years to be frustrated with how the team views his importance. The idea of market value for DHs isn't entering his mind at all. I believe he sees the issue as how important he has been to this team. The fact that Punto got a multi year deal is probably the thing that has pushed him over the edge. I am afraid that he will be willing to take less money from another team just as a matter of pride.

[Cumberland Blues]

With the new CBA - is arb even a possibility? I thought the team makes a qualifying offer, the player says yeah or neah, and that's it. If Ortiz passes on the qualifying offer - good luck to him getting a 2-3 year deal at comparable dollars when losing a 1st round pick is part of the cost to the signing team.

[Doctor G]

Even before this incident occurred I was thinking about what teams would want Ortiz, either this year or next year. Is it a foregone conclusion that he can't play 1B on a regular basis? When he's been out there he looks more than adequate. The injury concerns are another issue. As Tom said earlier, if he's limited to a DH role I really don't see where else he can go.

Tampa's not going to eat Scott's $6m salary.

Baltimore just got Thome.

Texas is all set.

Chicago is all set.

Cleveland has Hafner.

LAA seems to be all set.

Maybe Detroit?

But I wonder if an NL team would consider him to be a 1B and hope he can stay healthy in the field for 2-3 months.

Toronto has plenty of money and they have seen the way David hits in the Skydome. put him in that lineup as the left handed power bat they hoped Lind could be and you have an offense as intimidating as Texas or NY.

Edited by Doctor G, 05 July 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[OttoC]

Twins GM, Terry Ryan, spoke and took questions at the SABR national convention and he said that he really disliked arbitration because it leads to saying things about players he doesn't care to say. And I got the impression that GMs and players, mostly across the board, disliked it.

[someoneanywhere]

I am so tired of all the drama.

[SoxScout]

With the new CBA - is arb even a possibility? I thought the team makes a qualifying offer, the player says yeah or neah, and that's it. If Ortiz passes on the qualifying offer - good luck to him getting a 2-3 year deal at comparable dollars when losing a 1st round pick is part of the cost to the signing team.

I was under this impression as well, on the radio they were talking about how if Ortiz goes to arbitation he would get like $16M.... but everything I have read make it sound like it's the average of the top 125, or nothing.

edit:

Spoiler

(3) Rights of Former Club
The following provision shall apply only to each Player who
becomes a free agent under this Section B after having been contin-
uously under reserve (without interruption) to the same Club (either
at the Major or Minor League level) since Opening Day of the
recently completed championship season (“Qualified Free Agent”).
During the Quiet Period, the former Club of a Qualified Free
Agent may tender the Qualified Free Agent a one-year Uniform
Player’s Contract for the next succeeding season with a guaranteed
salary that is equal to the average salary of the 125 highest-paid
Players each year (“Qualifying Offer”). The amount of the Qualify-
ing Offer each year shall be determined pursuant to Attachment 45
to this Agreement, and shall be communicated to Clubs and Players
by the parties within ten (10) days of the conclusion of the
championship season. Clubs shall inform the Labor Relations
Department (“LRD”) of the Office of the Commissioner whether
they will make a Qualifying Offer to a Qualified Free Agent, and the
LRD will inform the Players Association no later than 5 P.M. East-
ern Time on the last day of the Quiet Period of each Club’s Quali-
fying Offers to Qualified Free Agents. If the former Club of a
Qualified Free Agent does not tender him a Qualifying Offer, it shall
not be entitled to compensation under paragraph (4) of this Section
B with respect to that Qualified Free Agent.
A Qualified Free Agent may accept a Qualifying Offer until the
seventh day following the conclusion of the Quiet Period (“Accep-
tance Period”). The Players Association shall provide the LRD with
a list of the Qualified Free Agents who have accepted the Qualify-
ing Offer by 5 P.M. Eastern Time of the final day of the Acceptance
Period. Any Qualifying Free Agent whose name is not included on
the list provided by the Players Association to the LRD will be
deemed to have rejected the Qualifying Offer.
If the Player accepts the Qualifying Offer, he shall be a signed
player for the next season on a one-year contract with a salary equal
to the amount of the Qualifying Offer, and shall be eligible for in-
season termination pay as set forth in Article IX, Section C if his
Contract is terminated under paragraph 7(b)(2) of the Uniform
Player’s Contract from the date of acceptance through the conclu-
sion of the championship season.

Edited by SoxScout, 05 July 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[RedOctober3829]

Clearly, Ortiz has been disrespected by the Red Sox. Ortiz has made $79 million over the last 6 seasons. He needs to shut his mouth and realize that the market dictates what a player is worth and not the other way around.

[Ed Hillel]

I am so tired of all the drama.

The fans and media here create 90% of it themselves. Ortiz expressed his opinion, and it seems like a pretty reasonable one, at least to me. I don't personally see much reason to get all worked up about it, from anyone's perspective, really. He didn't say he was going to quit playing hard.

[RetractableRoof]

I'm sooo tired of this story. Yes, Papi feels insulted, humiliated, disrespected, whatever words he wants to throw at it. Great, I got that 3 or 4 seasons ago when the story was playing then. He showed up this year according to many reports in much better shape this year - because of a medical scare.

Well I was insulted, disrespected that:

• he would show up at less than his best the previous years and ask me to pay my hard earned money to watch him when he had approached his preparation at less than his best
• him and his team have pretty much played 500 ball or less through august of last year and assumed that us schmucks would still pay top dollar to watch
• he would accept arbitration instead of leaving for a team who would pay what he thought he was worth, then complain about his own damn choice
• he has made millions of dollars over the last few years playing a damn game when people all around him are losing their jobs and homes and he feels as a fan I should be focused on his financial 'burden'

Hey Papi, just STFU. Stay or go, I don't give a damn either way at this point, but whatever you are going to do - just STFU. If the Sox are going to suck anyway, I'd rather see Lavarnway, Gomez, et al hitting and grinning every day at how lucky they are to have the chance to do so as opposed to your bitching about money again. If they are going to be competitive either be part of it (but do so in good spirits) or not - just STFU, and when the season is over ride off into the sunset or not... but STFU.

[Koufax]

You tell 'em, RR. My thoughts exactly.

[reggiecleveland]

Sure. He lost this weight on his own. He's talked about it a little bit this year, in order to keep his bat quicker.

His OPS+ was 153 last year. It's 162 now. Your point has little merit if actual results are examined.

[someoneanywhere]

The fans and media here create 90% of it themselves. Ortiz expressed his opinion, and it seems like a pretty reasonable one, at least to me. I don't personally see much reason to get all worked up about it, from anyone's perspective, really. He didn't say he was going to quit playing hard.

'Twas a joke.

He who claims to be tired of drama should not himself make more drama.

[drbretto]

This entire fan base gives way too much of a shit about what the media crams down our throats. It's ridiculous. You dissect everything and hang on every word as if every word actually means a damn thing. You're overthinking it. Ortiz is a player, not an ambassador. He doesn't need to think about what he says before he says it. He needs to play baseball. So that happened to be on his mind when asked. It doesn't mean he's sitting there pouting in the clubhouse all day every day waiting for his next contract.

He feels like he's been gypped by making comments about loving it here, so he's doing the opposite to get his payday. It's that simple. Why people here think he owes it to anyone to wait for the exact most perfect moment to blurt it out in the exact most perfect way is beyond me.

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Clearly, Ortiz has been disrespected by the Red Sox. Ortiz has made $79 million over the last 6 seasons.

Don't forget, in his third year with the franchise he was also given a plaque from the team for being "The Greatest Clutch Hitter in the History of the Boston Red Sox." Should be worth more on ebay than Jim Palmer's Cy Young award.

I wonder about the timing of this Ortiz episode. Just before the Yankees series and then the All-Star break. At first I thought this was just a spur of the moment thing, but now I'm beginning to wonder if he spoke based on someone's advice.

[Clears Cleaver]

His OPS+ was 153 last year. It's 162 now. Your point has little merit if actual results are examined.

The Red Sox have exactly ONE hitter in the top 100 eligible in MLB in OPS. He is the only guy worth a shit at the plate and the only guy worth watching. He looks around and sees all these guys like Adrian Gonzalez, crawford, Lackey, Beckett etc basically suck and make 2x what he makes and he gets pissed, especially since his teammates are costing him any chance of getting another ring.

I don't agree with players bitching to press about contracts. He should keep it to himself. His market value is what the Sox are paying him. Maybe he is trying to get himself traded (Youks envy?). He is clearly not happy playing in Boston anymore and probably leaves for less money next year. and I wouldn't blame him even though he's been the best player on this team the last nine years and the most iconic player outside of PEdro in the last 30 years.

[lexrageorge]

I think the major issue is pride. When you see the money the Sox have spent on shortstops that failed. Drew, Lackey, and Crawford all given multi-year contracts it is pretty easy to see where anyone who produced like Ortiz has over his Red Sox years to be frustrated with how the team views his importance. The idea of market value for DHs isn't entering his mind at all. I believe he sees the issue as how important he has been to this team. The fact that Punto got a multi year deal is probably the thing that has pushed him over the edge. I am afraid that he will be willing to take less money from another team just as a matter of pride.

I realize that the point was tangential to your main point, but can we at least stop lumping in Drew with the total clowns that are Lackey, Crawford, and Punto. Seriously, folks sound like they are channeling their inner Felger & Mazz when they start with that.

David Ortiz' contract is hardly a "mis-allocation of resources". The Sox looked at the market for 36 y/o DH's, as did Ortiz. The Sox had the one advantage of being able to offer arbitration, which would automatically give him more $$$ in 2012 than he was going to get on the free agent market. Ortiz (or his agent) knew that, and jumped on the offer.

If Ortiz isn't extended by the end of the season, expect the Sox to once again make the qualifying offer in order to retain the right of draft pick compensation, something they are well within their rights to do.

I would like to think that a 2/25 would get it done and both sides would be happy. And then this thread could be buried for good. But, for some reason, it seems like it may very well be more difficult than that.

[crystalline]

"Humiliating." "Embarrassing." Don't use those words, you asshole. You apparently don't know what they mean.

This is a translation from the Spanish. Is the original interview available?

The interpretation is as follows: "I am healthy, having a very good year and plan to use my leverage as a star player and franchise icon to get the largest deal possible for what is likely to be my last contract as a professional baseball player".
Now, as far as I am concerned, Ortiz is entirely justified in seeking to maximize his next deal by any means necessary. Its only fair and almost entirely unremarkable.

Exactly. The additional interpretation is: "The Red Sox decided last year that I was an injury risk and paid me more in AAV to get me for just one year. I realize that this was a business decision. But I am having a very good year, so tough nuts, that business decision backfired on the Red Sox. Now when I make a contract decision next year, it will also be a business decision and if another team offers me more money I am out of here. What goes around comes around."

"Also Crawford and Lackey not playing, at $20M and multiple years, while I am one of the top hitters in baseball (top 5 in MLB by runs created) really steams my shorts. The second Crawford's contract was signed I knew it was an overpay. The computer that predicted his defense was undervalued is moronic."

He feels like he's been gypped by making comments about loving it here, so he's doing the opposite to get his payday. It's that simple. Why people here think he owes it to anyone to wait for the exact most perfect moment to blurt it out in the exact most perfect way is beyond me.

I agree.
I hate to be a broken record on this, but this is on Ortiz's bosses in the front office. It is your job to make your employees feel valued and that they are fairly compensated for what they do. You can't please everyone, and you may need to make an example of some people, but you better get your star employees all on the same page.

I've said it before-- I wish the Sox could clone Belichick; the Pats do a great job of this. They talk Brady into a hometown discount a few years ago, and ultimately they follow through and pay him. This makes him happy. Welker sounds off a bit, but ultimately toes the company line. They somehow keep Ochocinco in line. When players take hometown discounts they don't trade them (e.g. to the Reds). They keep everyone focused on "doing their job".

Maybe the Varitek history is an example of the Sox doing this right - he said and did all the right things, is willing to take a reduced role as he gets older for cheaper contracts and eventually walks away on decent terms.