114 replies to this topic

[Harry Hooper]

USA Today:

Next offseason is going to be different. David Ortiz is certain about that. No more arbitration process. No more one-year deal. And possibly no more Boston Red Sox.
...
About 2½ hours before belting the 400th home run of his career, Ortiz told USA TODAY Sports in an extended Spanish-language interview that he'd like to stay in Boston, but not if he's treated the same way again.

"If you go crazy and give contracts to whoever comes along despite not knowing how they're going to do, then you don't give me my due consideration even though I do my thing every year, (screw) that,'' Ortiz said.

"I'm going to be open to anything. My mentality is not going to be, 'I like it here.' It's going to be, 'Bring it to the table and we'll see what happens.'''
...
Last season, Ortiz's ninth as the Red Sox's designated hitter, he batted .309 with 29 homers, 96 RBI and a .953 OPS, but could not convince the club to give him a multiyear deal. He could have entered the free agent market but instead accepted Boston's offer of arbitration.

"It was humiliating. There's no reason a guy like me should go through that,'' he said. "All I was looking for was two years, at the same salary ($12.5 million).

"They ended up giving me $3 million more than that (actually $2.025 million), and look at my numbers this year. Tell me if they wouldn't have been better off. And yet, they don't hesitate to sign other guys. It was embarrassing.''

[Noah]

This shit pisses me off. If it was so humiliating and embarrassing, why did you accept arbitration?

[Foulkey Reese]

This is really what he needs to be crying about after a road trip that could have potentially sunk their post-season chances? I mean David Ortiz is a superhero in Boston and he deserves to get paid as such, but christ, shut up.

[Eddie Jurak]

Someone should tell him that if he takes a one year deal at a modest raise, he can come out $5 million ahead of his 2 years, $25.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

So Ortiz is bothered by guys like Gonzalez and Crawford and Lackey getting big long deals and being lesser contributors than him. I get that. But they also all got their big deals at a younger age than Ortiz was last winter or will be this winter, hence they were viewed as lesser risks for a long term deal.

If Ortiz wanted the 5-7+ year mega-deal like they got, he shouldn't have signed below market extensions in 2004 when he would have been a free agent at the end of the year (at age 29 like Crawford and Gonzalez), or in 2006 when he could have been a free agent after 2006 or 2007 (at age 31 or 32 like Drew, Lackey, Beckett).

At least some of the "embarrassing" situation he's in, he brought on himself.

[Harry Hooper]

So Ortiz is bothered by guys like Gonzalez and Crawford and Lackey getting big long deals and being lesser contributors than him. I get that. But they also all got their big deals at a younger age than Ortiz was last winter or will be this winter, hence they were viewed as lesser risks for a long term deal.

If Ortiz wanted the 5-7+ year mega-deal like they got, he shouldn't have signed below market extensions in 2004 when he would have been a free agent at the end of the year (at age 29 like Crawford and Gonzalez), or in 2006 when he could have been a free agent after 2006 or 2007 (at age 31 or 32 like Drew, Lackey, Beckett).

At least some of the "embarrassing" situation he's in, he brought on himself.

Yeah, but I'm told David has Talking Heads on his iPod:

Facts are simple and facts are straight.
Facts are lazy and facts are late.
Facts all come with points of view.
Facts don’t do what I want them to.
Facts just twist the truth around.
Facts are living turned inside out.
Facts are getting the best of them.
Facts are nothing on the face of things.
Facts don’t stain the furniture.
Facts go out and slam the door.
Facts are written all over your face.
Facts continue to change their shape.

I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...

Edited by Harry Hooper, 04 July 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[EvilEmpire]

So Ortiz is bothered by guys like Gonzalez and Crawford and Lackey getting big long deals and being lesser contributors than him. I get that. But they also all got their big deals at a younger age than Ortiz was last winter or will be this winter, hence they were viewed as lesser risks for a long term deal.

He said he was looking for two years. Not too much of a risk given his production and what he's done for the organization.

[TheoShmeo]

His feelings are understandable. His need to talk about this and how difficult it is to deal with the Boston and national media is less so.

And with the season possibly circling the drain, and the MFYs looming, this is just about the last thing most fans want to hear.

Tiz, like most of the Red Sox family, is pretty freaking tone deaf.

Edited by TheoShmeo, 04 July 2012 - 08:57 PM.

[fineyoungarm]

This shit pisses me off. If it was so humiliating and embarrassing, why did you accept arbitration?

Because it still made me even filthier richer than I was, I didn't have to move (or play home games away from home) and I'm treated like a god. Other than that, the situation totally sucks.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

In the interest of helping out the SoSH community, I am prepared to share an algorithm that I have refined over the years to interpret what Ortiz is reported to be saying here:

Next offseason is going to be different. David Ortiz is certain about that. No more arbitration process. No more one-year deal. And possibly no more Boston Red Sox.
...
About 2½ hours before belting the 400th home run of his career, Ortiz told USA TODAY Sports in an extended Spanish-language interview that he'd like to stay in Boston, but not if he's treated the same way again.

"If you go crazy and give contracts to whoever comes along despite not knowing how they're going to do, then you don't give me my due consideration even though I do my thing every year, (screw) that,'' Ortiz said.

"I'm going to be open to anything. My mentality is not going to be, 'I like it here.' It's going to be, 'Bring it to the table and we'll see what happens.'''
...
Last season, Ortiz's ninth as the Red Sox's designated hitter, he batted .309 with 29 homers, 96 RBI and a .953 OPS, but could not convince the club to give him a multiyear deal. He could have entered the free agent market but instead accepted Boston's offer of arbitration.

"It was humiliating. There's no reason a guy like me should go through that,'' he said. "All I was looking for was two years, at the same salary ($12.5 million).

"They ended up giving me $3 million more than that (actually $2.025 million), and look at my numbers this year. Tell me if they wouldn't have been better off. And yet, they don't hesitate to sign other guys. It was embarrassing.''

The interpretation is as follows: "I am healthy, having a very good year and plan to use my leverage as a star player and franchise icon to get the largest deal possible for what is likely to be my last contract as a professional baseball player".

Now, as far as I am concerned, Ortiz is entirely justified in seeking to maximize his next deal by any means necessary. Its only fair and almost entirely unremarkable.

We can all go about our day and this thread can slide down the page. Or you can spend umpteen pages parsing his language, the timing of the article and how disruptive it will be to not only the team but the universe at large. Your choice - if you choose to go there.

I, however, am going to the Eliot Lounge.

Edited by DeJesus Built My Hotrod, 04 July 2012 - 08:57 PM.

[fineyoungarm]

In the interest of helping out the SoSH community, I am prepared to share an algorithm that I have refined over the years to interpret what Ortiz is reported to be saying here:

[/size][/font][/color]

The interpretation is as follows: "I am healthy, having a very good year and plan to use my leverage as a star player and franchise icon to get the largest deal possible for what is likely to be my last contract as a professional baseball player".

Now, as far as I am concerned, Ortiz is entirely justified in seeking to maximize his next deal by any means necessary. Its only fair and almost entirely unremarkable.

We can all go about our day and this thread can slide down the page. Or you can spend umpteen pages parsing his language, the timing of the article and how disruptive it will be to not only the team but the universe at large. Your choice - if you choose to go there.

I, however, am going to the Eliot Lounge.

All very true - but the "poor, pitiful me" routine still grates.

[Eddie Jurak]

I agree that he is justified in using the leverage he has to get the best contract he can get in the offseason.

In the offseason. He doesn't create any leverage by giving these kind of interviews in July.

[Dogman2]

Pay the man. 2/28-30. See you in the 3 spot.

[SoxScout]

Another day, another story about Ortiz crying over something. Who gives a fuck. He didn't like the dose of reality he got last winter about how much other teams value him. Next offseason we only have to offer him $12.5M or whatever. Maybe it's time to go in another direction anyways, we already got rid of one of the whiners.

Can't wait for the spin control tomorrow before the Yankees games, he can just borrow the playbook for backtracking they let Valentine use every other week.

[AimingForYoko]

Fucking seriously Papi, you do this now?

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

I love you for everything you've done, Papi.

That being said - Shut. The Fuck. Up. "Humiliating." "Embarrassing." Don't use those words, you asshole. You apparently don't know what they mean.

I'd like to like one or two players on this team, but it's getting harder and harder.

[SydneySox]

In the interest of helping out the SoSH community, I am prepared to share an algorithm that I have refined over the years to interpret what Ortiz is reported to be saying here:

[/size][/font][/color]

The interpretation is as follows: "I am healthy, having a very good year and plan to use my leverage as a star player and franchise icon to get the largest deal possible for what is likely to be my last contract as a professional baseball player".

Now, as far as I am concerned, Ortiz is entirely justified in seeking to maximize his next deal by any means necessary. Its only fair and almost entirely unremarkable.

We can all go about our day and this thread can slide down the page. Or you can spend umpteen pages parsing his language, the timing of the article and how disruptive it will be to not only the team but the universe at large. Your choice - if you choose to go there.

I, however, am going to the Eliot Lounge.

Nice one. You've missed the part where he's not allowed to discuss his employment, especially not in a translated article whose context of deliver is left entirely to the imagination of the person reading it.

He should keep his mouth closed because baseball players get paid money to play the game we all love. Therefore every year they should instead gleefully accept what they are given, and then say not one thing more about it until the next year, regardless of their performance, when -at the table - they should once more gratefully accept money for playing a game.

[86spike]

I love you for everything you've done, Papi.

That being said - Shut. The Fuck. Up. "Humiliating." "Embarrassing." Don't use those words, you asshole. You apparently don't know what they mean.

I'd like to like one or two players on this team, but it's getting harder and harder.

By this time next year, Carl Crawford is going to be everyone's crush.

[Hendu's Gait]

I'd be pissed to too if you gave Nick F'ing Punto a multi-year deal. Papi deserves some benefit of the doubt both due to history and to this year's production vis-a-vis the rest of the team, however poor his timing is.

[Rudy Pemberton]

This is not surprising in the least. In the recent past, the Sox have been penny pinchers when dealing with their own players, while lavishly spending exorbitant amounts on signing free agents or extending players they've received in trades, many of whom have been epic failures in Boston. These guys are human and have a lot of pride, given Papi's production, it's fair for him to wonder why the best the Sox could do last year, after a decade of service, was a lowball two year deal. If he leaves, will we trash him on the way out too, and then Pedroia a few years after that?

[Noah]

His feelings are understandable.

He didn't like the dose of reality he got last winter about how much other teams value him.

This ^^^ is why his feelings aren't understandable. He's getting paid market value now, and this offseason his value will be slightly more, but he's still a 36 year old 250 lb. DH.

Like someone else said, he traded his chance for a big FA payday for the security of a 4-year extension he signed in 2006.

''I feel this is my house, and I've got to protect this house," said Ortiz, who turned 30 during an offseason that put the team and fan base through a lot. ''This is not all about David Ortiz. This is about the group of guys that play together day by day."

Maybe he regrets it now, but tough luck. And for the love of all that is holy, shut the fuck up.

[StuckOnYouk]

So he's got 10/5 rights. Maybe Ben should call him up and have him give a list of teams he'd accept a trade to. If he's insulted by our 1-year deals maybe its time for us to find an accomodating team/market for him and grab some decent prospects.

There's gotta be an AL team out there that would give us a really good prospect or two for him.

Keep in mind I'm going the realistic route and giving up winning a championship this year and focusing on 2013 and beyond. And I'm calling a player's bluff when he bitches about his meager 15 million dollar contract.

[AimingForYoko]

This is not surprising in the least. In the recent past, the Sox have been penny pinchers when dealing with their own players, while lavishly spending exorbitant amounts on signing free agents or extending players they've received in trades, many of whom have been epic failures in Boston. These guys are human and have a lot of pride, given Papi's production, it's fair for him to wonder why the best the Sox could do last year, after a decade of service, was a lowball two year deal. If he leaves, will we trash him on the way out too, and then Pedroia a few years after that?

Okay, really?

No one here is trashing Papi. We all clearly love the guy and pretty much always give him carte blanche to do or say whatever the hell he wants. If we didn't, there would be constant threads about whatever the fuck he was complaining about this time, there would have been threads dissecting and analyzing everytime he completely disrespected Tito. Hell we would probably even bring up the fact that he was positive on a PED list.

But we don't do any of that. No one is trashing him, we're just expressing annoyance at his choice of words and the timing of the said words and the fact that he keeps bringing this up.

Boston didn't penny pinch on Ortiz; they knew that no one would give him to close to money they offered him. He clearly knew it too, which is why he accepted arbitration in the first place.

And they're also worried that the period in time where he looked like a corpse (which was also when he turned up on the PED list) might occur again.

Edited by AimingForYoko, 04 July 2012 - 11:30 PM.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Serious question: why are folks so offended by this?

[StuckOnYouk]

Serious question: why are folks so offended by this?

Because this isn't the time for the self-proclaimed leader of the team to be talking about being insulted by a 1 yr/15 million deal. The team just got curbstomped during a road trip to Seattle and Oakland.
In other words, shut the hell up Papi.

[brs3]

Because this isn't the time for the self-proclaimed leader of the team to be talking about being insulted by a 1 yr/15 million deal. The team just got curbstomped during a road trip to Seattle and Oakland.
In other words, shut the hell up Papi.

I kind of assumed that Papi was speaking out because they've reached the point of the season where they realize a postseason push isn't going to happen...so it's time to focus on their self interests.

edit: I realize the season isn't a lost cause, but they haven't exactly stepped on the gas at any point this year.

Edited by brs3, 04 July 2012 - 11:46 PM.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Because this isn't the time for the self-proclaimed leader of the team to be talking about being insulted by a 1 yr/15 million deal. The team just got curbstomped during a road trip to Seattle and Oakland.
In other words, shut the hell up Papi.

How was getting curbstomped during a road trip to Seattle and Oakland Papi's fault?

Why should he shut the hell up on the day he's just hit his 400th bomb, and is getting questioned directly by the media about what he wants his future in baseball to hold?

[Plympton91]

This is not surprising in the least. In the recent past, the Sox have been penny pinchers when dealing with their own players, while lavishly spending exorbitant amounts on signing free agents or extending players they've received in trades, many of whom have been epic failures in Boston. These guys are human and have a lot of pride, given Papi's production, it's fair for him to wonder why the best the Sox could do last year, after a decade of service, was a lowball two year deal. If he leaves, will we trash him on the way out too, and then Pedroia a few years after that?

This, squared.

Papi is giving the front office advice they should heed and follow. The approach to free agency that they've used for the past half decade or more has been an epic failure. As Rudy said, they continue to ignore their own top-tier free agents who have been successful here and instead shower above-market contracts on shiny new blades of green grass with no track record in Boston. Starting with the decision to dump Cabrera in the winter of 2004-2005 and chase the skirts of Renteria and then Lugo, they've paid hundreds of millions of dollars and traded lots of value to acquire players who ended up being worse than the home-grown or at least home-tested player they could have signed instead.

The funny thing is, go back and read all the Papi threads from the offseason. The consensus of the SOSH minions last winter was that the Red Sox should not give Papi a 2 year deal, because they'd be much better off picking up Youkilis' option and making him the DH in 2013, with occasional appearances at 1B and 3B offsetting the marginal decrease in offense. Now you've got a pissed off Ortiz who you'll have to pay more to retain, because you dumped Youkilis for cannon fodder (which might be an insult to cannon fodder).

[rembrat]

No, they haven't. They paid Mike Lowell and that was a disaster. They let Jason Bay walk and that was a great success. Don't make this into another "they should have given Papelbon $60MM" shit fest.

Ortiz can't shut up. Being a diva is what the big man does. And threatening to join the Yankees or any other AL team is getting really fucking old.

[StuckOnYouk]

You're kiddi

How was getting curbstomped during a road trip to Seattle and Oakland Papi's fault?

Why should he shut the hell up on the day he's just hit his 400th bomb, and is getting questioned directly by the media about what he wants his future in baseball to hold?

There's a time and a place for everything. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to realize that this is absolutely NOT the time to talk about not having a multi-year deal.

[patinorange]

Serious question: why are folks so offended by this?

It's a team sport and he is insulting his teammates and his bosses. It would be better for the team if he kept quiet about his contempt for the recent contracts. (Of course, he is right on this point)

He is adored in Boston by the media and the fans despite being on a list of PED users. He is getting market value. He is outperforming market value so far, so it is his right to leverage that market value in the off season when he sits down at the table.

He has a right to answer questions and a right to say anything he wants, we have the right to be offended.

And he will get a standing O when he hits a bomb against the Yanks this weekend. No matter what he says, the fans will love him, until he puts on the pinstripes.

[mauidano]

Okay, really?

No one here is trashing Papi. We all clearly love the guy and pretty much always give him carte blanche to do or say whatever the hell he wants. If we didn't, there would be constant threads about whatever the fuck he was complaining about this time, there would have been threads dissecting and analyzing everytime he completely disrespected Tito. Hell we would probably even bring up the fact that he was positive on a PED list.

But we don't do any of that. No one is trashing him, we're just expressing annoyance at his choice of words and the timing of the said words and the fact that he keeps bringing this up.

Boston didn't penny pinch on Ortiz; they knew that no one would give him to close to money they offered him. He clearly knew it too, which is why he accepted arbitration in the first place.

And they're also worried that the period in time where he looked like a corpse (which was also when he turned up on the PED list) might occur again.

All of this makes total sense. It's just that it's unnecessary for him to be popping off like that. You're signed through this season. Honor the contract and worry about it in November. In the mean time you're not winning friends and influencing people wit this nonsense. You'll get "yours"; just cut the fucking arrogance. A little humility goes a long ways to getting the support of the masses. Just don't be a prick about it.

[YouLookAdopted]

Trade him. Now's the time. He can win a division for the right team this year and the Sox can get back something of great value if they move him within the next 26 days. They're not going to start cutting multi-year contracts to 37 year old designated hitters next winter.

[reggiecleveland]

Try being in shape every year and not just after being humiliated.

[SeoulSoxFan]

I smartly avoid posting on the main board as not to be humiliated.

Having said, that, I love you Ortiz for everything you've done, and understand why you'd be pissed (Lackey!!!) but now isn't the time. In fact, during the season there's absolutely no right time to bitch about your contract.

For the first time ever, I may be okay with trading Ortiz come the deadline.

[TomRicardo]

Trade him where?

Texas and LAA already have full dance cards with their DH.
There is zero chance he is going to New York.
Baltimore just got Thome
Cleveland has Haftner and Chicago has Dunn.

What is left? Tampa Bay?

[MikeM]

This, squared.

Papi is giving the front office advice they should heed and follow. The approach to free agency that they've used for the past half decade or more has been an epic failure. As Rudy said, they continue to ignore their own top-tier free agents who have been successful here and instead shower above-market contracts on shiny new blades of green grass with no track record in Boston. Starting with the decision to dump Cabrera in the winter of 2004-2005 and chase the skirts of Renteria and then Lugo, they've paid hundreds of millions of dollars and traded lots of value to acquire players who ended up being worse than the home-grown or at least home-tested player they could have signed instead.

I'd actually argue that your road of epic fail in free agency started with the decision to outbid ourselves on Jason Varitek's services that winter, as that really did set the overall tone imo, but whatever. General point being that avoiding one wrong in favor an arguably lesser one isn't always the "right" solution either.

Papi isn't giving any advice here, he's essentially just blowing the same hot air he did last year. As others have already pointed out, he traded his chance at the big unrestricted payday for the security contract. Now the market is what it is, and regardless how good a hitter Papi may still be present day, that market simply isn't as friendly towards 37 year old pure-DH types as it once was.

The Sox will offer their arby at season's end, and for the same exact reason he took it then, he'll take it again. With the bigger story here actually playing out behind that imo. A $16m'ish contract to Papi will bump our projected base 2013 payroll commitment up too what atm, $150m or so, and another round of minor market player maneuvering?

[Rudy Pemberton]

No, they haven't. They paid Mike Lowell and that was a disaster. They let Jason Bay walk and that was a great success. Don't make this into another "they should have given Papelbon $60MM" shit fest.

Ortiz can't shut up. Being a diva is what the big man does. And threatening to join the Yankees or any other AL team is getting really fucking old.

Lowell had one excellent year, got hurt and lost his defensive ability and that was that, true. But the beloved Drew also retuned negative value his final year. Were the Sox "right" about Pedro and Bay, and guys like that? Perhaps, but they were equally wrong about the guys they replaced them with. Same goes for Papelbon, risky to pay him, yes. Equally risky to trade Lowrie, Reddick, etc to replace him. Signing FA's is risky business, but the Sox seem to be much more careful about their own guys, while not recognizing the warts on others. Hell, perhaps Tito belongs in thia diacussion too. It just sucks that the organization can seem to keep its best players happy, and it's been going on forever.

[Lose Remerswaal]

I smartly avoid posting on the main board as not to be humiliated.

Having said, that, I love you Ortiz for everything you've done, and understand why you'd be pissed (Lackey!!!) but now isn't the time. In fact, during the season there's absolutely no right time to bitch about your contract.

For the first time ever, I may be okay with trading Ortiz come the deadline.

Like TomRic says, not many teams can take him, and as a 10-5 guy, you can't trade him unless he agrees to the trade. So what you'll have to do is find a team who needs a DH for the next 2+ years AND is willing to guarantee him $30 million (or more) for those 2 additional years.

Tell me what teams those are.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Serious question: why are folks so offended by this?

Not only that, we've had, what, 40 years of baseball players doing this sort of stuff. You'd think we'd be used to it by now.

[Plympton91]

Lowell had one excellent year, got hurt and lost his defensive ability and that was that, true. But the beloved Drew also retuned negative value his final year. Were the Sox "right" about Pedro and Bay, and guys like that? Perhaps, but they were equally wrong about the guys they replaced them with. Same goes for Papelbon, risky to pay him, yes. Equally risky to trade Lowrie, Reddick, etc to replace him. Signing FA's is risky business, but the Sox seem to be much more careful about their own guys, while not recognizing the warts on others. Hell, perhaps Tito belongs in thia diacussion too. It just sucks that the organization can seem to keep its best players happy, and it's been going on forever.

Bingo again, especially the bolded part. To their defense, as others have pointed out, some of this is baked into the compensation system in which dumping your own type A free agent and signing somebody elses for some reason nets you a compensation pick. But the value of that pick shouldn't be the 2 years and $5 million per year that they overpaid for Crawford. People are talking about Lackey, Crawford, and Gonzalez in this thread. But, giving Papi 2 years at $26 million would have been about equivalent to what they gave Mike Cameron as a 37 year old to play CF, and the second year of that contract is about what they gave Bobby Jenks. To me, a second year for Ortiz last winter is way, way, way less risky than a second year for Cameron was, and less risky altogether than Jenks.

[TheoShmeo]

This ^^^ is why his feelings aren't understandable. He's getting paid market value now, and this offseason his value will be slightly more, but he's still a 36 year old 250 lb. DH.

Like someone else said, he traded his chance for a big FA payday for the security of a 4-year extension he signed in 2006.

[/font][/color]

Maybe he regrets it now, but tough luck. And for the love of all that is holy, shut the fuck up.

Nah, it's quite understandable that a player who has produced well over a long period would feel badly about having to go year to year when so many of his teammates, and specifically pieces of excrement like Nick Punto, have multi-year deals. We're talking feelings here, not pure logic.

But we fully agree, David should keep those feelings to himself at this time.

[OttoC]

I wrote this in another thread two weeks ago:

"I think there is even more to this, namely the larger, long-term contracts given to players like Crawford, Gonzalez, Matsuzaka, Lackey, who really are not producing (or even playing). You found all that money to give to them but you only want to give me a one-year contract? Which player on this team is producing at a $20M/year level? Obviously, all the negativity in the media has exacerbated the situation but I think that deep down Ortiz might feel insulted."

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Try being in shape every year and not just after being humiliated.

His OPS+ was 153 last year. It's 162 now. Your point has little merit if actual results are examined.

He's always produced save for 2009 when he got off to that horrible start. He's the only fucking guy on the team producing now. He's absolutely right to feel that while the club falls all over themselves to hand out huge deals to players either massively underprodicing (AGon, Crawford, Lackey) or simply burns $12 million for nothing (Jenks) he continues to pound the ball year after year and yet has to wrangle for one year at a time.

Pay the man his money. 2/30. Call it good. And we can all stop getting offended by this type of stuff.

[drleather2001]

Serious question: why are folks so offended by this?

I don't think people find it offensive. I think the right word is "exasperation".

It's such a cliche when players in general, and Ortiz in particular at this point, go this route. It's exasperating because a fan can't help but read his comments as if he's asking for sympathy, or trying to justify being angry at only earning $15 Million a year, and it's absurd to think that I should see this his way and think "Hm. You're right. It is insulting that you only earn 400 times my household income, because some other guy on your team earns 600 times my household income, and your OPS is 200 points higher than his." And I understand the economics of baseball, and that they 'deserve' their money and all that, but don't ask me to feel sympathy for your economic situation. It's irritating that players don't take a step back and think about that more often.

Finally, what makes it exasperating is that everyone knows how this plays out, and that these comments don't actually help anything. At the end of the season, Ortiz will look at his options and take the one he likes best, just like every player on every team since the free agent era began. This outburst is stupid, doesn't solve anything, and just come across as childish. And I don't like being reminded that some of the guys I root for are, in many ways, overgrown children.

Baseball is, at its heart, escapism. When a player comes out and breaks the fourth wall like this, indirectly appealing to the fans for support, it kills the illusion for a little while. That's why it sucks.

Edited by drleather2001, 05 July 2012 - 08:30 AM.

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Meh.

He can be as "embarassed" and "humiliated" as he wants. If a team offered him 2 years last year, he wouldn't be with the Red Sox. He's going to be a year older and now it's, "Bring it to the table and we'll see what happens"?

We know what will happen...the same thing that happened last year. He'll bark and talk a big game, and then realize that nobody wants to sign a heavyset, former HGH using, 37 year old (a "Dominican Republic" 37 at that) DH to a multi-year contract. Unless he decides to simply spite the Red Sox, he'll be back in the lineup next year playing with another 1 year contract.

I love Ortiz, but he has enough baggage that other teams aren't going to be knocking down his door to throw multi-year contract offers at him.

[fineyoungarm]

Not only that, we've had, what, 40 years of baseball players doing this sort of stuff. You'd think we'd be used to it by now.

God, it goes back to before Ted Williams retired (over paid, under producing players) - the glory days of the Boston Gold Sox,

Most fans are pretty raw after the miserable road trip and don't want to hear about how dissed a multi millionaire feels - even if he has a point.

Ortiz is pretty raw, for reasons pointed out above. I know the injury factor is huge, but I keep going back to yesterday's line up. In the field you had two legitimate every day starters (at first and catcher), a few platoon guys (maybe Aviles and Ross start every day on some other teams, maybe not) and guys who are not or never will be ready for prime time (but nevertheless feel the need to tweet about the pitching, if the Kalish story is accurate).

The offense is AWOL in close games, the defense is lousy (put aside stats and go to the subjective - how many "web gems" have featured a Red Sox player this year?), Lackey is on the bench every day yucking it up and Punto has two years. We watch it. Ortiz lives it. (OK, maybe we live it too - but you know what I mean.)

It's the perfect combination for misery all the way around. Nevertheless, the only offensive leader of the team, who is having a fine year, and is All Star, needed to ignore his tin ear and zip it. Either that, or throw the hand grenade into the room and call people out - the "If my contract is fair, then yours is criminal" approach. (For the next half hour or so, I plan to remain serious about that last point.)

[glennhoffmania]

His OPS+ was 153 last year. It's 162 now. Your point has little merit if actual results are examined.

He's always produced save for 2009 when he got off to that horrible start. He's the only fucking guy on the team producing now. He's absolutely right to feel that while the club falls all over themselves to hand out huge deals to players either massively underprodicing (Adrian Gonzalez, Crawford, Lackey) or simply burns $12 million for nothing (Jenks) he continues to pound the ball year after year and yet has to wrangle for one year at a time.

Pay the man his money. 2/30. Call it good. And we can all stop getting offended by this type of stuff.

I agree with everything you're saying, and anyone who's offended by this needs to check themself. At the same time, there's nothing wrong with keeping this shit to himself. It's not like he's running for public office and needs to increase his public support. Sit down and talk to Ben and company and get it all out. Instead he's made public statements that could rub a lot of people the wrong way including some of his teammates who may be among the "whoever comes along" group he mentioned.

Edited by glennhoffmania, 05 July 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Okay, really?

No one here is trashing Papi. We all clearly love the guy and pretty much always give him carte blanche to do or say whatever the hell he wants. If we didn't, there would be constant threads about whatever the fuck he was complaining about this time, there would have been threads dissecting and analyzing everytime he completely disrespected Tito. Hell we would probably even bring up the fact that he was positive on a PED list.

But we don't do any of that. No one is trashing him, we're just expressing annoyance at his choice of words and the timing of the said words and the fact that he keeps bringing this up.

Boston didn't penny pinch on Ortiz; they knew that no one would give him to close to money they offered him. He clearly knew it too, which is why he accepted arbitration in the first place.

And they're also worried that the period in time where he looked like a corpse (which was also when he turned up on the PED list) might occur again.

No one is trashing him? This thread is full of "shut the fuck up" and "he's fat and old and a PED abuser" etc... Even you bring up the suggestion that his performance (or lack thereof) is related to substance abuse. Do you think he recent performance is the result of some new, as yet undetectable designer drug?

[Toe Nash]

It's one thing if Youk had said this kind of stuff (which, to his credit, he didn't), or if Ortiz had said this during one of his slow starts in '09 or '10.. But Ortiz has answered his critics time and time again. He's done in June 09? .904 OPS from June to the end of the season. Similar story in '10, and then two of his 5 best seasons at age 35 and 36. Yet after each year everyone wants to dump him.

Meanwhile all the guys they've brought on who made more than him have disappointed. And yes, they're younger and so they got 8-year deals, but Ortiz wanted just like...two years.

Ortiz has also seen his own teammates honored somewhat on past performance, see Lowell, Tek, Schilling, maybe Beckett, and the first three of those deals weren't exactly good value. His position is completely reasonable.

The NBA salary cap of course rewards signing your own players, but the Celtics just gave Kevin Garnett 3/34 after he showed he can still play at an incredibly high level. We laughed at the deal but the Yankees gave Jeter 3/51 even though he wasn't likely to go elsewhere, and he's not crushing the ball but he's doing OK.

Maybe the lowballing motivates him, but I think we're getting close to the edge of healthy motivation to outright anger.

If they trade Ortiz over some bullshit I am done with this team (for a while).