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Fenway 100: Greatest Living Red Sox: Center Field poll


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Poll: Which Center Fielders should be included in the Fenway 100? (57 member(s) have cast votes)

Please select 5 to 10 choices

  1. Tony Armas (18 votes [6.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.19%

  2. Darren Bragg (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Damon Buford (1 votes [0.34%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.34%

  4. Ellis Burks (36 votes [12.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.37%

  5. Coco Crisp (10 votes [3.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.44%

  6. Johnny Damon (46 votes [15.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.81%

  7. Don Demeter (3 votes [1.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.03%

  8. Jacoby Ellsbury (41 votes [14.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.09%

  9. Carl Everett (2 votes [0.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.69%

  10. Dave Henderson (11 votes [3.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.78%

  11. Darren Lewis (2 votes [0.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.69%

  12. Fred Lynn (54 votes [18.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.56%

  13. Rick Miller (5 votes [1.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.72%

  14. Otis Nixon (2 votes [0.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.69%

  15. Jimmy Piersall (25 votes [8.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.59%

  16. Reggie Smith (35 votes [12.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.03%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Infield Infidel


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Posted 04 July 2012 - 10:16 AM

Center Field.

Voting:
Please vote for 5 to 10 players. The top 5 vote-receivers are accepted.


After all the positions are in, the top vote-getters not previously selected will be accepted, with no more than 10 per position, until 57 players are selected.

Once a player is selected for one position, he cannot be selected for another position.

If there is a tie for fifth, the player with more nominations will be selected

More info on the methodology here

Baseball Reference positional history here


Voting ends Monday 7pm ET.

Sixteen players were nominated, under the poll choice limit of 20, so all players nominated are in the poll.

Edited by Infield Infidel, 04 July 2012 - 10:20 AM.


#2 JMDurron

  • 3,687 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:55 PM

Reposting from the other thread:

Reggie Smith did not get nearly enough love in the nomination thread.

From 1966-1973 (67 bonus!), he put up a 281/354/471 line, for an OPS+ of 129. He also mashed 20+ HRs for 5 consecutive seasons back when that was actually impressive, from 69-73. He is 4th all time for the Red Sox in games started in CF, behind only Fred Lynn among the living. This isn't a Frank Malzone situation where a guy just played the position for a while with reputably good defense and mediocre offensive performance, this was a player putting up excellent numbers for his era while playing a premium defensive position AND actually playing on one of the franchise's iconic teams.

Fred Lynn
Reggie Smith
Johnny Damon
Ellis Burks

The first 4 are obvious, the last one is basically a personal preference pick.

Jacoby Ellsbury

Dave Henderson played 61 games in CF for the Red Sox over 2 years. I think Ellsbury has to beat him out, and I haven't seen a good argument against what I'd consider to be the Top 4 yet. The Top 3, at the very least, strike me as no-brainers.

#3 bankshot1

  • 4,692 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

I think Jimmy Piersall should get a little more SoSH love. As a CF for the Sox for 8 years in the 1950s, he was a GG winner and a 2-time AS. Furthermore, like other baseball greats, Ruth, Cobb, Gehrig and Monty Stratton, his life was immortalized by Hollywood.

Do not strike out on this candidacy!!!

#4 Al Zarilla


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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:38 PM

I think Jimmy Piersall should get a little more SoSH love. As a CF for the Sox for 8 years in the 1950s, he was a GG winner and a 2-time AS. Furthermore, like other baseball greats, Ruth, Cobb, Gehrig and Monty Stratton, his life was immortalized by Hollywood.

Do not strike out on this candidacy!!!

I agree about Piersall. It's hard to compare then to now, but he was a great fielder in his time. He played shallow, like Paul Blair, got a great jump (have to if you play shallow) and seemed to rarely have a ball hit over his head. 65 career assists for Boston, majority in CF, range factor in the high twos and 3 or over for two years. He would probably have won more gold gloves if the award had been there (started GGs in 1957).

#5 JMDurron

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

I think Jimmy Piersall should get a little more SoSH love. As a CF for the Sox for 8 years in the 1950s, he was a GG winner and a 2-time AS. Furthermore, like other baseball greats, Ruth, Cobb, Gehrig and Monty Stratton, his life was immortalized by Hollywood.

Do not strike out on this candidacy!!!


From 1950-1958, Piersall put up a 273/340/397 line, good for a 93 OPS+. He did average 12 HRs per 162 games, which I'd imagine must be respectable for a CF with reportably good defense in that era.

I would argue that it's still a complete no-brainer that Lynn, Smith, and Damon go in ahead of him. I would still argue that Ellis Burks was a far superior player over 6 seasons with the team, with his power and above-league-average offense with a 116 OPS+. Burks also was an All-Star with a Gold Glove to his name while in Boston, for what relatively little that award may be worth, given the voting scheme. I think it would take a pretty healthy gap in defensive competence between Burks and Piersall to get him in over Ellis.

That leaves Ellsbury, which I think comes down to a "longevity and steady performance" vs "short term spikes in performance." Ellsbury has a superior offensive performance (OPS+ 109) compared to Piersall, but in only 3 full seasons vs 6 for Piersall. Ellsbury also has a GG and ASG appearance to his name, plus a World Series win (1.188 OPS against the Rockies).

So, unless you heavily weight durability over performance, I think a fair evaluation of Piersall finds him lacking relative to these 5 other candidates. Let's not let our current frustrations with Ellsbury's durability obscure what he has done so far for the team when healthy. Piersall does seem to have been overlooked so far relative to his contributions to the franchise, so I'd agree with Bankshot on that point.

#6 Infield Infidel


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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:17 PM

Reminder: You can vote for more than 5 people if you think more than 5 are deserving. I voted for seven

#7 Al Zarilla


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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:32 PM

If only Burks could have stayed healthy, and stayed with the Sox.

#8 bankshot1

  • 4,692 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:36 PM

So, unless you heavily weight durability over performance


I also weight some history here as well. While stats are the life blood of analysis, the stats may or may not be comparable between the decades, so rather than a relying purely on quantative data some quallitative observations, should be factored in. While I've no quarrel with Lynn, Reggie, or Damon holding the first three spots, Jimmy Piersall, playing a great CF between Williams and Jensen, should deserve some consideration for the still-alive team. And when Hollywood makes the Tacoby Bellsbury story,...
IMO Piersall, a menber of the 50s Sox, has earned his spot on the team.

#9 JMDurron

  • 3,687 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:40 PM

Reminder: You can vote for more than 5 people if you think more than 5 are deserving. I voted for seven

Oops.

Piersall for 6th!

EDIT - There's nothing I hate more than idiotic voters who can't read instructions for these things. Like me! :c070:

Edited by JMDurron, 04 July 2012 - 04:40 PM.


#10 fineyoungarm

  • 2,368 posts

Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:37 PM

Don Demeter has 2 votes - my heart soars like the hawk. Somewhere up there Billy Herman is slamming down a boilermaker and smiling.

#11 Infield Infidel


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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:36 AM

Monday AM bump, This one will stay up till someone gets 50 votes or so

#12 Infield Infidel


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  • 5,743 posts

Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:46 AM

Monday AM bump for some last votes. Going to close this noonish today

#13 OttoC


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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:46 AM

I think Piersall was the best fielder in center that I saw.

#14 Infield Infidel


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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:07 AM

Voting closed

Fred Lynn 51 votes
Johnny Damon 44
Jacoby Ellsbury 40
Ellis Burks 36
Reggie Smith 34
--------------------
Jimmy Piersall 25




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