139 replies to this topic

[HillysLastWalk]

That's brilliant, BC.

Yes, just sent this to my buddy (Yankee fan). We've got a wager on this (free lunch). Youks has to have at least an 800 OPS, with the White Sox, for me to win (final numbers).

I definitely don't want to let go. I miss you Youks!

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 03 July 2012 - 09:19 AM.

[bosox79]

Where do you get the impression he can play 3B?

his original scouting reports said he was more than passable at 2b and 3b. They may have said even good. Plus its not really a shock that a generational defender at SS can play 3b.

Edit: spelling

Edited by bosox79, 03 July 2012 - 07:50 PM.

[The Allented Mr Ripley]

Of course, he's never played a game at 3B in the minors, so let's promote him to the majors and have him play the position, that makes a lot of sense. Especially when Aviles can slide to 3B so Iglesias can play SS.

[bosox79]

Of course, he's never played a game at 3B in the minors, so let's promote him to the majors and have him play the position, that makes a lot of sense. Especially when Aviles can slide to 3B so Iglesias can play SS.

No one said it made sense. I agree with you, just pointing it out. His soxprospect report says more than adaquate at 2b/3b.

[Cellar-Door]

Why would we be bringing him up anyway regardless of where he plays? He can't hit AAA pitching, what is the advantage of bringing him to the majors when he isn't an upgrade over Punto?

[Plympton91]

He plays dreamy defense at shortstop, of course. To some, that makes up for his likely line of 180 / 200 / 190.

Interestingly, however, Ciriaco played 3B tonighT for Pawtucket instead of LaRoche. Not that I have much, if any, faith that his BABIP luck will hold out on a promotion.

Yuuuuuk homered and drove in 4 today.

[Cellar-Door]

He plays dreamy defense at shortstop, of course. To some, that makes up for his likely line of 180 / 200 / 190.

Interestingly, however, Ciriaco played 3B tonighT for Pawtucket instead of LaRoche. Not that I have much, if any, faith that his BABIP luck will hold out on a promotion.

Yuuuuuk homered and drove in 4 today.

his team scored 18 runs and it isn't even over yet, I'm unimpressed.

Edited by Cellar-Door, 03 July 2012 - 09:40 PM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Youks follows up his monster game yesterday with a 2-4 today, and the game winning hit. Meanwhile, Bobby passes on playing Lillibridge in favor of starting a guy with no big league hits and an awful defensive track record at third. Yikes. If Youkilis isnt cooked, than this could be another example of Ben selling low. Sheee-ittttttt.

[tonyarmasjr]

Youks follows up his monster game yesterday with a 2-4 today, and the game winning hit. Meanwhile, Bobby passes on playing Lillibridge in favor of starting a guy with no big league hits and an awful defensive track record at third. Yikes. If Youkilis isnt cooked, than this could be another example of Ben selling low. Sheee-ittttttt.

He made a couple really nice plays at third tonight, too - one charging/barehanding and another diving toward the line. At least for one night, he didn't look much at all like a guy who's cooked.

[HillysLastWalk]

Youks follows up his monster game yesterday with a 2-4 today, and the game winning hit. Meanwhile, Bobby passes on playing Lillibridge in favor of starting a guy with no big league hits and an awful defensive track record at third. Yikes. If Youkilis isnt cooked, than this could be another example of Ben selling low. Sheee-ittttttt.

I purposefully avoid game-threading the main board (as we all should) - but damn. How helpful would Kevin Youkilis been on this road trip? Where we were losing one run games nightly? Especially yesterday.

I will never understand why we didn't just start Youkilis and let Middlebrooks remain a bench player or send him to AAA (up until the rosters can expand). We were that desperate to save a million or so and get waiver-wire fodder in return? The White Sox made out like bandits.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I purposefully avoid game-threading the main board (as we all should) - but damn. How helpful would Kevin Youkilis been on this road trip? Where we were losing one run games nightly? Especially yesterday.

I will never understand why we didn't just start Youkilis and let Middlebrooks remain a bench player or send him to AAA (up until the rosters can expand). We were that desperate to save a million or so and get waiver-wire fodder in return? The White Sox made out like bandits.

Because Middlebrooks was outperforming Youkilis in every way while they were both here and Youkilis was so unhappy by this he was deemed a distraction?

[HillysLastWalk]

Because Middlebrooks was outperforming Youkilis in every way while they were both here and Youkilis was so unhappy by this he was deemed a distraction?

Or was he unhappy that he was losing his job because of injury (or I would imagine that view could be taken)? Here I am a starter on this team. A very important starter. Who was consistently awesome, even up until the end of last year where he got injured (just like the Ellsbury's and Pedroia's of the world mind you). Then, this year, you are considered an important part of the offense. You start the season injured, struggled a bit, and Bobby V is questioning your commitment. You go on the DL, and when you come back, you are shuffled around and you can't get your job back? I'd be unhappy too.

You know what would make him happy? Starting. Regardless, as mentioned previously, while Youkilis is knocking in game-winning hits, and having monster games against the team with the best record in the AL, we've got Gomez at third and we're struggling to score runs on this road-trip. Meanwhile, Middlebrooks started to struggle and is now not even playing because of an injured hamstring. Kevin Youkilis would have helped us win ball games on this road-trip. Continue to spin this any way you want.

[glennhoffmania]

Or was he unhappy that he was losing his job because of injury (or I would imagine that view could be taken)? Here I am a starter on this team. A very important starter. Who was consistently awesome, even up until the end of last year where he got injured (just like the Ellsbury's and Pedroia's of the world mind you). Then, this year, you are considered an important part of the offense. You start the season injured, struggled a bit, and Bobby V is questioning your commitment. You go on the DL, and when you come back, you are shuffled around and you can't get your job back? I'd be unhappy too.

You know what would make him happy? Starting. Regardless, as mentioned previously, while Youkilis is knocking in game-winning hits, and having monster games against the team with the best record in the AL, we've got Gomez at third and we're struggling to score runs on this road-trip. Meanwhile, Middlebrooks started to struggle and is now not even playing because of an injured hamstring. Kevin Youkilis would have helped us win ball games on this road-trip. Continue to spin this any way you want.

Yeah I agree. There was no reason not to send Middlebrooks down for a couple of weeks and see what Youkilis could do playing full time and then make a decision. If they could've gotten something of value back that's one thing. But to get a bag of crap back and save a million bucks certainly doesn't seem worth it. When all is said and done this will most likely be a trade of Youkilis for $1 million. They could've gotten the same deal a couple of weeks later if they wanted to.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Or was he unhappy that he was losing his job because of injury (or I would imagine that view could be taken)? Here I am a starter on this team. A very important starter. Who was consistently awesome, even up until the end of last year where he got injured (just like the Ellsbury's and Pedroia's of the world mind you). Then, this year, you are considered an important part of the offense. You start the season injured, struggled a bit, and Bobby V is questioning your commitment. You go on the DL, and when you come back, you are shuffled around and you can't get your job back? I'd be unhappy too.

He was being outproduced, period. He threw up a 692 OPS in Boston this year. WMB is currently at 873 even after his slump.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I just hope the trade doesn't come back and bite us in the ass. It's probable that the White Sox are not going to be directly competing with the Red Sox for a playoff spot, so at least we have that going for us.

And perhaps Ben can parlay the million bucks and the savings on Jenks into something useful at the deadline. That would make me change my mind on the trade.

[HillysLastWalk]

He was being outproduced, period. He threw up a 692 OPS in Boston this year. WMB is currently at 873 even after his slump.

We can all talk around each other for days on end. My opinion is that going foward (from the day of the trade), that won't be the case. This trade has already cost us games (the Red Sox losing and our competition winning). Not worth arguing about it until the end of the season. Then we can compare.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 05 July 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[Toe Nash]

Yeah I agree. There was no reason not to send Middlebrooks down for a couple of weeks and see what Youkilis could do playing full time and then make a decision. If they could've gotten something of value back that's one thing. But to get a bag of crap back and save a million bucks certainly doesn't seem worth it. When all is said and done this will most likely be a trade of Youkilis for $1 million. They could've gotten the same deal a couple of weeks later if they wanted to.

We did this. When Youk came off the DL we played ADRIAN GONZALEZ IN RIGHT FIELD to get Youk PT. This was a contortion of epic proportions.

Youk still stunk.

Now that he has had two good games (one of which his team scored a million runs, so you can discount that some) we think he's back? He still has just a .759 OPS with Chicago so far. That's better than Punto, I guess, but not at the risk of destroying the clubhouse.

Plus who knows if he would have still performed here with all the baggage. We did him a favor by giving him a new start.

[Toe Nash]

We can all talk around each other for days on end. My opinion is that going foward (from the day of the trade), that won't be the case. This trade has already cost us games (the Red Sox losing and our competition winning). Not worth arguing about it until the end of the season. Then we can compare.

Why do you keep bringing it up then?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

We can all talk around each other for days on end. My opinion is that going foward (from the day of the trade), that won't be the case. This trade has already cost us games (the Red Sox losing and our competition winning). Not worth arguing about it until the end of the season. Then we can compare.

IE ignore what others are saying to explain the situation at the time the trade was made. Good job.

[JohntheBaptist]

We can all talk around each other for days on end. My opinion is that going foward (from the day of the trade), that won't be the case. This trade has already cost us games (the Red Sox losing and our competition winning). Not worth arguing about it until the end of the season. Then we can compare.

Well, no. The trade happened when it happened, so comparison probably stands to succeed based on what the participants knew at the time.

Youkilis may have been upset for all the reasons you mentioned, but that's life. Middlebrooks was going to take his job then or later, and being human as you've pointed out to us, this was likely to upset Youkilis when it came to pass. Ellsbury and Pedroia didn't lose their jobs when hurt because those are, you know, totally different situations. Middelbrooks just took the job from him sooner than later.

You're right that the possibility exists for Youkilis to play better than Middlebrooks, but what you're definitely wrong about is that it is in any way such a sure thing as to warrant beating the drum for its inevitability and the trade's failure over and over.

Edited by JohntheBaptist, 05 July 2012 - 09:10 AM.

[glennhoffmania]

We did this. When Youk came off the DL we played ADRIAN GONZALEZ IN RIGHT FIELD to get Youk PT. This was a contortion of epic proportions.

Youk still stunk.

Shuffling people around, moving Youkilis between 1B, 3B and the bench (especially during IL) is not what I had in mind. I think that the guy deserved a chance to be the everyday 3B for a little while to see if he was healthy and productive without having Middlebrooks there already pretty much displacing him. The difference in the standings over a two week period with Youkilis at 3B and an OF in RF so Gonzalez could've played 1B would have been negligible at best. If Youkilis continued to put up something like a .200/.280/.325 line then you trade him, and I'd bet that someone would've given Boston the same return at that point as they got from Williams. It's not like they pulled the trigger because they had some idiot GM offering them a sweet deal that was too good to pass up. I didn't understand the rush in this situation.

[HillysLastWalk]

IE ignore what others are saying to explain the situation at the time the trade was made. Good job.

How is it ignoring what people are saying when I just don't agree with the ultimate conclusion using all data points (mine and yours)? This is poor on your part SJH.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

I didn't understand the rush in this situation.

This is exactly where I stand on the situation -- self-imposing a deadline in June to get Youk gone was just plain stupid.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

How is it ignoring what people are saying when I just don't agree with the ultimate conclusion using all data points (mine and yours)? This is poor on your part SJH.

You keep repeating the same thing over and over and explicitly ignored the counter-points. No one was "talking around" you, you ignored them by hand-waving it as "talking around."

You are right in saying we'll have to see how each player performs over the course of the season to make a final determination, but don't ignore everything people have been saying about why the trade was made. Move on.

[JohntheBaptist]

This is exactly where I stand on the situation -- self-imposing a deadline in June to get Youk gone was just plain stupid.

Where did you see that the team self-imposed a deadline? Seems to me they were going day-by-day weighing whether the offers would go down, how badly Youkilis could hurt what little value he had on or off the field, etc. Interested to hear about this self-imposed deadline.

[HillysLastWalk]

You keep repeating the same thing over and over and explicitly ignored the counter-points. No one was "talking around" you, you ignored them by hand-waving it as "talking around."

You are right in saying we'll have to see how each player performs over the course of the season to make a final determination, but don't ignore everything people have been saying about why the trade was made. Move on.

Just to be clear, maybe it was a poor choice of words, but what I was basically saying was that we should "agree to disagree". Because that's what we are basically doing - disagreeing. I haven't ignored anything anyone has ever said. I understand Middlebrooks was doing well, but there were still concerns there (his K/BB rate, teams seeing him a few more times, our depth once Youks is gone). I just didn't agree with the ultimate conclusion. It's unfair to state that I wasn't listening or I'm the one beating the drum when I'm not the only one taking that viewpoint or discussing this. Today I mentioned it once, in reply to the subject being brought up by someone else. You've been going back and forth with me since. I can't respond? My view is cemented, everyone knows it, I agree - Moving On. Exactly what I was trying to do.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 05 July 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Just to be clear, maybe it was a poor choice of words, but what I was basically saying was that we should "agree to disagree". Because that's what we are basically doing - disagreeing. I haven't ignored anything anyone has ever said. I understand Middlebrooks was doing well, but there were still concerns there (his K/BB rate, teams seeing him a few more times, our depth once Youks is gone). I just didn't agree with the ultimate conclusion. It's unfair to state that I wasn't listening or I'm the one beating the drum when I'm not the only one taking that viewpoint or discussing this. Today I mentioned it once, in reply to the subject being brought up by someone else. You've been going back and forth with me since. I can't respond? My view is cemented, everyone knows it, I agree - Moving On. Exactly what I was trying to do.

We're cool then. As always all problems are problems of communication.

Honestly, it's just really bad luck for Middlebrooks to get nicked up just after the trade. But of course when it comes to injuries this year the Sox have had nothing but terrible luck.

[j44thor]

We're cool then. As always all problems are problems of communication.

Honestly, it's just really bad luck for Middlebrooks to get nicked up just after the trade. But of course when it comes to injuries this year the Sox have had nothing but terrible luck.

Was it luck or a somewhat probable outcome that the FO planned poorly for? Middlebrooks already had a hamstring issue earlier in the season and those tend to linger so this certainly wasn't an out of the blue injury.

The bigger issue is that while WMB was outperforming Youk he was a little dinged up and likely Adrian is also more than a little nicked up/tired/both. Between the two of them it should have been rather easy to rotate 3 position players. If anything it probably would have been beneficial to rest Adrian a bit, especially after forcing him into RF. Why Bobby V pencils him in day in, day out is a little puzzling.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Was it luck or a somewhat probable outcome that the FO planned poorly for? Middlebrooks already had a hamstring issue earlier in the season and those tend to linger so this certainly wasn't an out of the blue injury.

The bigger issue is that while WMB was outperforming Youk he was a little dinged up and likely Adrian is also more than a little nicked up/tired/both. Between the two of them it should have been rather easy to rotate 3 position players. If anything it probably would have been beneficial to rest Adrian a bit, especially after forcing him into RF. Why Bobby V pencils him in day in, day out is a little puzzling.

Of course it was also a probable outcome that Youkilis would get injured again as well given his recent history.

I agree on resting Adrian, don't know why he hasn't gotten a bit more time off. It's not like his bat has been so good that it must be kept in the lineup at all costs.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Where did you see that the team self-imposed a deadline? Seems to me they were going day-by-day weighing whether the offers would go down, how badly Youkilis could hurt what little value he had on or off the field, etc. Interested to hear about this self-imposed deadline.

From weei.com's full-count blog after Cherington spoke with Dennis & Callahan on-air:

“We were working hard to find a resolution and give our clubhouse and our manager a chance to get a little bit more stability back to our lineup and to find an opportunity for Kevin to get a fresh start. . . . We got to a point several days ago where we decided ‘you know what, this might be the best thing, if there is a trade that we could find, it may be the best thing for everyone,’” Cherington said.

I believe it was a tweet by Bradford or Speier where Ben mentioned the team had committed to close a deal by June 24. I'm certain I saw it there on the 25th, and those are about the only two tweeting sports reporters that I trust. Unfortunately, since I don't use twitter, I don't know how to find it now that it's off the weei.com page.

[Al Zarilla]

“We were working hard to find a resolution and give our clubhouse and our manager a chance to get a little bit more stability back to our lineup and to find an opportunity for Kevin to get a fresh start. . . . We got to a point several days ago where we decided ‘you know what, this might be the best thing, if there is a trade that we could find, it may be the best thing for everyone,’” Cherington said.

OK, seeing as though he used the phrase you know what, I perfecty understand the decision to trade Youkilis now.

Edited by Al Zarilla, 05 July 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[Ed Hillel]

He was being outproduced, period. He threw up a 692 OPS in Boston this year. WMB is currently at 873 even after his slump.

None of this means Youk had to be traded. The debate doesn't need to be about Youk Vs. WMB, it can, and imo should, be about Youk/WMB vs. WMB/Scott freaking Lillibridge. At least the former gives you two valid choices for the position.

[kieckeredinthehead]

I purposefully avoid game-threading the main board (as we all should) - but damn. How helpful would Kevin Youkilis been on this road trip? Where we were losing one run games nightly? Especially yesterday.

Average ERA (weighted by innings pitched) facing White Sox offense last two days when Youkilis actually started getting some hits: 6.94
Average ERA facing Red Sox offense on the road trip: 3.15

He wouldn't have been helpful, he would have looked overmatched, just as he has all season when not facing replacement level pitching. I guess maybe he could've caught that pop-up Aviles dropped.

[Koufax]

Not uless he was playing SS.

[KenTremendous]

Youk is kind of a volatile guy. Valentine gassed up the fire when he called him out for no discernable reason. How do we know Youk didn't say, to Cherington and/or others: "Start me at third every day, or get me out of here by July 1, or I'm going to give a three hour long press conference after every game and burn this place to the ground?" (Or whatever. You get the point.)

There's a lot of complicated feelings we can only guess at, a lot of considerations we know half of, a lot of bad luck, and a lot of very small sample sizes. This trade, like all trades, cannot be "good" or "bad" until a year or more has passed. It can only be "good so far" or "bad so far," which is mostly meaningless after seven games.

[Cellar-Door]

None of this means Youk had to be traded. The debate doesn't need to be about Youk Vs. WMB, it can, and imo should, be about Youk/WMB vs. WMB/Scott freaking Lillibridge. At least the former gives you two valid choices for the position.

That's disingenuous. it is really slightly more than half a year of Youk vs. 3.5 years of BRENT Lillibridge and 5.5 years of Zach Stewart. You also have to take into account that Youkilis' stature with the fans and attitude meant he was not happy playing once a week tops like Lillibridge is, so you either have a media distraction, or you are losing one of WMB, Gonzales or Ross from the lineup.

[Sprowl]

Was it luck or a somewhat probable outcome that the FO planned poorly for? Middlebrooks already had a hamstring issue earlier in the season and those tend to linger so this certainly wasn't an out of the blue injury.

The bigger issue is that while WMB was outperforming Youk he was a little dinged up and likely Adrian is also more than a little nicked up/tired/both. Between the two of them it should have been rather easy to rotate 3 position players. If anything it probably would have been beneficial to rest Adrian a bit, especially after forcing him into RF. Why Bobby V pencils him in day in, day out is a little puzzling.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but this strikes me as the most salient issue: WMB was injured earlier, ran awkwardly and slowly for a few games, is still a little bit clumsy on defense, and benefited from a few games on the bench. At this point, Middlebrooks is still a mistake hitter, not a phenom, and he will continue to struggle until his pitch recognition improves on low changeups. Youkilis was not hitting yet since returning from the DL, but he was looking much better on defense at both 1B and 3B. With Ortiz, Gonzalez, Youkilis and Middlebrooks sharing 3.5 positions (counting Gonzalez as a fraction of a rightfielder), there should have been enough at-bats to go around. Instead, Cherington held a Youkilis fire sale, and got a fire sale return.

I blame this on Bobby Valentine for mismanaging Youkilis from spring training onward. It is the manager's job to get along with his players as best he can, until the GM can get him new players.

I blame this on Ben Cherington for humoring his egocentric manager and tipping his hand to the entire league. Cherington's trades specialize in value subtraction.

Anybody else within reach, I'll blame them too.

[dwainw]

OK, seeing as though he used the phrase you know what, I perfecty understand the decision to trade Youkilis now.

Good point. I think "yada, yada, yada" would have shed a bit more light on his thinking there.

I agree about the implication of an arbitrary self-imposed deadline. I would have like have seen Ben wait until at least a couple weeks closer to the trade deadline to work a trade, in order to potentially ratchet up the "desperation" factor with the teams in the market. Especially with an agressive dealing team like the White Sox. The risk of his continued diminished production was negligible in my mind because I doubt it would have lowered his trade value more than it already was. So Youks might have been unhappy for a few more weeks. Tough luck. Was it really going to ruin the team's morale to an unmanageable degree? For the record, I liked and continue to like the guy, and I can imagine it was a difficult situation, but if he and the team couldn't deal with it for a few more weeks, then the fragility of egos on this team is likely unmanageable with or without him.

[glennhoffmania]

I blame this on Bobby Valentine for mismanaging Youkilis from spring training onward. It is the manager's job to get along with his players as best he can, until the GM can get him new players.

I blame this on Ben Cherington for humoring his egocentric manager and tipping his hand to the entire league. Cherington's trades specialize in value subtraction.

Anybody else within reach, I'll blame them too.

I couldn't agree with the above more. I'd bet that if Tito was still the manager and/or if Theo was still the GM this would never have become an issue and Youkilis would still be contributing in some capacity instead of us watching a bunch of replacement level 3B right now.

[Koufax]

If Tito was here, Will would be in AAA waiting his turn. I am not sure that this is better. Only the second half of the season will tell.

[Ed Hillel]

That's disingenuous. it is really slightly more than half a year of Youk vs. 3.5 years of BRENT Lillibridge and 5.5 years of Zach Stewart. You also have to take into account that Youkilis' stature with the fans and attitude meant he was not happy playing once a week tops like Lillibridge is, so you either have a media distraction, or you are losing one of WMB, Gonzales or Ross from the lineup.

I guess I'm not up on the first names of big-league backups who have an OPS in the .400s. Lillibridge is obviously easily replaceable, and Stewart is likely to give little, if anything, down the road.

Also, I don't care if Youkilis would have been happy, since I don't really think he would have been able to do anything with that unhappiness. Media distractions tend to affect fans way more than players Youkilis offered, and this is important, insurance in case one of the corner infielders got hurt. And now one of them is.

How do we know Youk didn't say, to Cherington and/or others: "Start me at third every day, or get me out of here by July 1, or I'm going to give a three hour long press conference after every game and burn this place to the ground?" (Or whatever. You get the point.)

I have a feeling if anything of the sort was said, we'd know by now.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 05 July 2012 - 02:34 PM.

[lexrageorge]

So, why are we re-evaluating this trade exactly 10 days later? Do we really know any more today than we did then?

Last I checked, Middlebrooks' injury is relatively minor, and he should be back well before the end of the month. If Will Middlebrooks missing a few games is the different between this team making or missing the playoffs, then the team is more seriously flawed than we are willing to admit.

And, Youks had a similar "hot streak" his first 8 games or so when he came back from the DL. And, Youks' total line since the trade: .306/.342/.417, or .759 OPS. Let's not get too carried away.

[Super Nomario]

Also, I don't care if Youkilis would have been happy, since I don't really think he would have been able to do anything with that unhappiness. Media distractions tend to affect fans way more than players Youkilis offered, and this is important, insurance in case one of the corner infielders got hurt. And now one of them is.

It's not just media distractions. It's also about the way the team treats players and the effect on player acquisition going forward. Sending a veteran player to the bench in a contract year is kind of a dick move. Other players (and their agents) might see that and think, "Boston doesn't treat players right." Instead they gave Youkilis an opportunity to go somewhere he could play every day and have a chance to earn his next contract (probably his last significant one). It's a classy move.

[luckysox]

All of a sudden the offense from the infield looks pretty scary - no-power Gonzo, back-to-earth Aviles, Punto, Lillibridge - or maybe Ciriaco if we're lucky (lucky????).
That's a freaking spring training line-up. I hope the hammy heals itself over the course a few days, because Youk ain't coming back no matter how badly we want him to (although if there was a guy happier to get out of town, I'm not sure who it was) and I'd rather have a young mistake hitter who does mash the crap out of mistakes playing 3rd and hitting in the middle of the line-up than any of the other guys named above. This could be very brutal, very fast.

[JohntheBaptist]

From weei.com's full-count blog after Cherington spoke with Dennis & Callahan on-air:

“We were working hard to find a resolution and give our clubhouse and our manager a chance to get a little bit more stability back to our lineup and to find an opportunity for Kevin to get a fresh start. . . . We got to a point several days ago where we decided ‘you know what, this might be the best thing, if there is a trade that we could find, it may be the best thing for everyone,’” Cherington said.

I believe it was a tweet by Bradford or Speier where Ben mentioned the team had committed to close a deal by June 24. I'm certain I saw it there on the 25th, and those are about the only two tweeting sports reporters that I trust. Unfortunately, since I don't use twitter, I don't know how to find it now that it's off the weei.com page.

I had not seen this, and it changes how I look at the trade for sure. If the trade happens June 24 because, with all the surrounding factors, this was what they felt was their best shot at the best deal--I get it. If they set a deadline for themselves it suggests to me they were far over-prioritizing meeting certain demands for certain people over the team on the field.

I mean I get that it had to happen, but doing it just so its done isn't how this team should ever do things.

Edited by JohntheBaptist, 05 July 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Of course it was also a probable outcome that Youkilis would get injured again as well given his recent history.

This to me is the key point. It seems like a near-certainty that Youkilis will miss significant playing time between now and the end of the season. That reduces his value by quite a bit.

[Plympton91]

HR: Youkilis (6).

When do we start the "Cherington on the hot seat" thread.

But I know, a 33 year old former all star recovering from a slow start is just unprecedented. Who could have predicted?

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I had not seen this, and it changes how I look at the trade for sure. If the trade happens June 24 because, with all the surrounding factors, this was what they felt was their best shot at the best deal--I get it. If they set a deadline for themselves it suggests to me they were far over-prioritizing meeting certain demands for certain people over the team on the field.

I mean I get that it had to happen, but doing it just so its done isn't how this team should ever do things.

This is where I am, too. The phrase, "if there was a trade that we could find," may just be sloppy speaking, but terrifies me: Really, you felt like Youk just had to go and decided that anyone with a bag of baseballs willing to take him in return would do? Fuck's sake. I'd really rather hear him say, "if there was a way to upgrade the team by trading him," but maybe that's what he meant. Hopefully. Please.

[Cellar-Door]

yes. because cooked guys never have a good 3 game series.

[Sprowl]

HR: Youkilis (6).

When do we start the "Cherington on the hot seat" thread.

But I know, a 33 year old former all star recovering from a slow start is just unprecedented. Who could have predicted?

33-year-old Ortiz didn't start so well either. If Youkilis were a designated hitter, he would probably be more durable too.

Cherington has been on the hot seat since the day he took over. The housecleaning began last October, but it's not done yet.