119 replies to this topic

[knucklecup]

Boston Herald:

As of this afternoon the Celtics were still negotiating with undrafted free agents to fill out the roster for their summer league team, which will play in leagues in Orlando and Las Vegas starting next weekend.
But several veteran free agents were added today, including power forward Othello Hunter, who played last season in China, and Jamar Smith, an NBADL veteran guard who played on a Celtics summer league team two years ago. Free agent guards Dionte Christmas and Jonathan Gibson have also signed on.
Sean Williams, the former Boston College center who was signed near the end of the season with the idea of playing for the Celtics this summer, will also be on the roster, though it’s unclear whether he will play in both Orlando and Las Vegas.

http://www.bostonher...er-to-stiemsma/

I'm excited for the Summer League. Hopefully NBA TV will broadcast all games. Really want to see Sean Williams, JuJuan Johnson, the rooks, and more.

[knucklecup]

Can we look into Jeremiah Rivers, Doc's son from Indiana?

I really think he's an NBA shut down defender off the bench. Perhaps a poor mans Sefolosha or Allen for very little money.

Edit: He's pretty terrible and only a project but I like his defensive ability and instincts on that end.

Edited by knucklecup, 29 June 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Very excited to have Christmas in Summer

[crystalline]

I miss the days when it was at UMass Boston.

[ElcaballitoMVP]

C's beat Thunder in their 1st game of the summer, 73-65.

Sullinger goes 6-12 (1-3 from 3), for 20 points with 6 rebounds to lead the way.

Moore went 6-16 for 16 pts, with 4 assists and 2 turnovers.

Melo looked good on the defensive end in limited action, finishing 1 for 2, 2 pts, with 2 blocks and 2 boards in 14 minutes.

2nd round pick Kris Joseph went 3-8 for 7 pts, with 4 rebounds and 3 turnovers in 17 minutes.


Edit: and just because everyone wanted the C's to draft him: Perry Jones III had a solid game, going 7-17, for 16 points with 8 rebounds in 28 minutes.

Edited by ElcaballitoMVP, 09 July 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[Brickowski]

Maybe Summer league deserves a separate thread, but I watched game1 in Orlando against OKC. C 's won 73-65. Some impressions:

Sullinger looked Duncanesque against this level of competition.
Moore played poorly in the first half, better in the second. In fairness, Reggie Williams (from BC) played Moore very tough and Moore was playing the point, not the two.
Chris Joseph looks like a player. He has an NBA body and can score.
Sean Williams looked good except for a bonehead foul in the 4th quarter.
Melo didn't do badly at all. He even made a jumper. But he needs some time in Maine IMHO.
JJJ showed zero improvement from last year.

I also watched part of the first game (Brooklyn vs Orlando). Andrew Nicolson looked very, very good.

[BigSoxFan]

JaJuan Johnson only scored 3 points but did grab 8 rebounds. He needs to be more aggressive like E'Twaun Moore was today.

[bowiac]

I'm most interested in Melo. Why do you think he needs time in Maine? Specific areas he's weak on?

[ifmanis5]

Edit: and just because everyone wanted the C's to draft him: Perry Jones III had a solid game, going 7-17, for 16 points with 8 rebounds in 28 minutes.

I predict the pre-draft "knee" stuff was all garbage. He'll beast.

[collings94]

Great start for Sullinger, I didn't know he could shoot the 3. With Ray gone, depending on Courtney Lee, there is an opening at guard at Moore or someone else needs to be aggresive and take it.

[Brickowski]

I'm most interested in Melo. Why do you think he needs time in Maine? Specific areas he's weak on?

He looked ok, he really did--better than I thought he would. Good weak side shot blocker. But his defensive rotations need work: OKC's guards were getting to the rim too easily when he was on the floor. Plus he looked a little lost offensively.

Given the fact that he didn't start playing basketball until his mid teens, I think he would devlop more quickly playing 30-35 minutes a night in Portland instead of logging cameo minutes or DNP-CDs in Boston.

[Brickowski]

Edit: and just because everyone wanted the C's to draft him: Perry Jones III had a solid game, going 7-17, for 16 points with 8 rebounds in 28 minutes.

Yeah, Rick Kamla was raving about him, but Jones pretty much disappeared in the 4th quarter. In 2-3 years we'll be in a better position to judge whether or not the C's should have taken Jones instead of Melo.

As for JJJ, some of his rebounds were off long misses. It's not that he played so badly, it's just that I did not see any improvement, either in his body or his game.

[Ed Hillel]

I'm most interested in Melo. Why do you think he needs time in Maine? Specific areas he's weak on?

He needs time to adjust to living in a homogenous society of white people.

[lars10]

He needs time to adjust to living in a homogenous society of white people.

...He did go to Syracuse...upstate New York doesn't exactly vary all that much either.

[Cellar-Door]

He looked ok, he really did--better than I thought he would. Good weak side shot blocker. But his defensive rotations need work: OKC's guards were getting to the rim too easily when he was on the floor. Plus he looked a little lost offensively.

Given the fact that he didn't start playing basketball until his mid teens, I think he would devlop more quickly playing 30-35 minutes a night in Portland instead of logging cameo minutes or DNP-CDs in Boston.

Normally I'd agree, but in this case I'd like him to be in Boston because I want him practicing against KG. KG took Perk to a new level, he beat Big Baby into shape, I think he'd do wonders for Melo.

[Brickowski]

Normally I'd agree, but in this case I'd like him to be in Boston because I want him practicing against KG. KG took Perk to a new level, he beat Big Baby into shape, I think he'd do wonders for Melo.

No reason why he couldn't practice frequently with the parent club. He'd be on the roster and Portland is only 104 miles from Boston.

[Jed Zeppelin]

No reason why he couldn't practice frequently with the parent club. He'd be on the roster and Portland is only 104 miles from Boston.

This sounds unrealistic in every way imaginable, from playing games for the NBDL team without practicing to navigating the schedules of Maine and Boston and finding time for frequent practice with the latter.

I'd expect maybe a short stint in Maine like Bradley's 9 games his rookie year, but most of his season will be spent under the tutelage of KG.

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Yeah, Rick Kamla was raving about him, but Jones pretty much disappeared in the 4th quarter. In 2-3 years we'll be in a better position to judge whether or not the C's should have taken Jones instead of Melo.

As for JJJ, some of his rebounds were off long misses. It's not that he played so badly, it's just that I did not see any improvement, either in his body or his game.

In all fairness, what differences do you expect to see from a returning pro like JJJ at this point? It's not like he has had an entire off-season to reshape his body. It's been just less than a month since Boston played game 7 against Miami.

[wutang112878]

He looked ok, he really did--better than I thought he would. Good weak side shot blocker. But his defensive rotations need work: OKC's guards were getting to the rim too easily when he was on the floor.

Yikes, this was exactly what I was worried about. Take him out of the syracuse zone, and when he is forced to play man, watch his man and time the rotation correctly [and have the awareness to know when to do that], and he is completely lost.

Was the game televised? I need to see this for myself before soon so I can come to grips with him getting DNPs all season if its as bad as I fear.

[Cellar-Door]

Yikes, this was exactly what I was worried about. Take him out of the syracuse zone, and when he is forced to play man, watch his man and time the rotation correctly [and have the awareness to know when to do that], and he is completely lost.

Was the game televised? I need to see this for myself before soon so I can come to grips with him getting DNPs all season if its as bad as I fear.

It's on NbaTv right now. He made a really nice rejection at the rim rotating to the driver, mostly it's the first game of summer league, everyone's rotations are a mess so it's hard to judge one guy.

[Rudy Pemberton]

So, we are putting a lot of stock in one summer league game, played a few weeks after the draft? We've already made a determination that Melo can't improve his flaws? The guy was drafte two weeks ago!

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

Yeah, Rick Kamla was raving about him...

You lost me at "Rick Kamla". Dude doesn't know his ass from his elbow, let alone good basketball if it bit him right in his jimmy.

Sean Williams looked good in the first half. Active on the glass and running the floor. He definitely shouldn't have taken an ill-advised three in the second half. A Hollins replacement I think.

I like Kris Joseph. Nice length, good stroke. I like him to make the team.

Sullinger looked good. He needs to lose about 10 lbs. I'm buying in on Sullinger now after being against the pick during the draft.

[Brickowski]

So, we are putting a lot of stock in one summer league game, played a few weeks after the draft? We've already made a determination that Melo can't improve his flaws?

Who said that? The issue is how to develop him as quickly as possible.

[Brickowski]

You lost me at "Rick Kamla". Dude doesn't know his ass from his elbow

True enough. He may be even worse than Mike Breen, although on a smaller stage.

[PedrosRedGlove]

Some pretty good stuff on Sullinger on nba.com Hang Time blog:

“I didn’t want to come into the game thinking like its all about me, all about me playing the way I’ve played all my life, where everything goes through you. I didn’t want to play like that today, because I got some teammates that can really play.
....
“You know what? When you have two brothers like Julian Sullinger and J.J. Sullinger and you go through the air on concrete and they throw you to the ground and you’ve got scrapes all over your arms, you learn to concentrate on making the shot instead of the scrapes on your arms” he said. “Every time I cried they’d yell at me because I was always worried about the scab or something instead of making the shots. When you have two brothers like that, you got no choice but to make the shot. They trained me well, from the time I was about five. I owe them a lot.”

Sounds like he'll fit right in on a KG-led team. Decent highlights too including a Melo block, and Sullinger's 3. Sullinger looks pretty smooth on the court, obviously it was just a few plays, not trying to make a comparison of their skill sets or abilities, but it sort of felt like watching a 270 lb Paul Pierce.

EDIT:

Who said that? The issue is how to develop him as quickly as possible.

I think Rudy was responding to wutang's alarmist tone 2 posts up.

Edited by PedrosRedGlove, 09 July 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[bball831]

Pretty bad that JJJ was basically non-existent in this game. To be a 2nd year pro and not perform well let alone dominate against summer league competition is not a good sign for things to come.

[Sille Skrub]

Moved all the summer league posts in here.

[Brickowski]

JJJ played better in game 2, as did Moore (excellent defensive effort). Celtics win 83-72 after erasing a 17 point deficit. But the hero was Gibson, the kid who played in Turkey last year. It was hero ball, not good basketball, but the shots went in. You could have said the same thing about the Nets in the second quarter when they built the 17 point lead. Sullinger and Kris Joseph were decent, as was Christmas, the 6-5 kid from Temple. No one else on the C's did much.

[Nick Kaufman]

2 games in I can see Sullinger contributing from the first year onwards. He didn't play that well today, but he's posting, got a good touch and most importantly he can see the floor and pass at the open man. If he gets conditioning, he's got the game to play on the NBA.

I am not so sure about Melo. Seems like a guy who's gonna need at least 2-3 years before he can do something extra. Till then, he's ceiling is 11th-12th man on the team.

And yeah, there was a lot of hero ball by players who just want to leave their mark.

In other news, Popeye Jones has definitely put some weight! And....

Offense wins games, but defense wins championships. I believe that because Chris Mullin told me.

[Cellar-Door]

Thoughts from todays game:
Sullinger missed a lot of shots, but rebounded well, and finished strong through a man his own size for an and one, however Thornton's athleticism really bothered him. Passed very well for a big man.
Melo, set good screens, made 1 huge block, inconsistent positioning, made good effort for rebounds, terrible boxing out but so was everyone else on both teams. Good hands for size, made a touh catch in traffic, later made a really nice drop pass to Sean Williams for an easy look.
Joseph, played excellent D, spaced the floor well, cut hard to the basket,.
Christmas, good effort, strong rebounding for a guard.. Looked way too slow to guard 2s, got abused by Brooks.
Gibson, 6'1" 170 lbs gunner, played good press D but has no place on an NBA roster, didn't compete for rebounds and isn't a PG
Moore, ran the point pretty well, played good D, a bit small to play the 2, drove to the hoop, shot pretty well.
JJJ, shot well, better defending had 3 or 4 blocks. Still needs to put on a lot of muscle, got out bodied by shorter players.

Edited by Cellar-Door, 10 July 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Reading good stuff on Joseph, is he a legit find?

[MarkBT]

Reading good stuff on Joseph, is he a legit find?

I always liked his game at Syracuse. He went in the 2nd round for a reason...but he's got a combination of athleticism and feel for the game that should land him a job in some team's rotation. With his size at the quick forward position and athleticism, his ceiling is as one of those 7-8th men in the rotation who comes in and plays strong defense, rebounds, makes the corner three and 'picks his spots' on offense. Sort of like a very poor man's Josh Howard (back when he was a contributor on those Dallas Mavs teams in their first NBA Finals run).

[Cellar-Door]

Reading good stuff on Joseph, is he a legit find?

He seems like he'll be one of those guys who always makes a team, but not likely to be in your top 6 or 7.

[Jed Zeppelin]

I always liked his game at Syracuse. He went in the 2nd round for a reason...but he's got a combination of athleticism and feel for the game that should land him a job in some team's rotation. With his size at the quick forward position and athleticism, his ceiling is as one of those 7-8th men in the rotation who comes in and plays strong defense, rebounds, makes the corner three and 'picks his spots' on offense. Sort of like a very poor man's Josh Howard (back when he was a contributor on those Dallas Mavs teams in their first NBA Finals run).

He seems like he'll be one of those guys who always makes a team, but not likely to be in your top 6 or 7.

Thanks guys. I think what I'm hoping for is one of those types that San Antonio always pulls from seemingly nowhere and plugs right into their machine.

[wutang112878]

Missed this game again, I have to start DVRing these.

Serious question, lets assume for a second that Melo simply cant develop enough this year and grasp our switching / help defense. To get KG some rest, might we be able to play zone [as much as you can in the NBA anyway] with Melo on the court with the 2nd unit? It would be difficult for Doc to balance defensive practice time between man and zone, but it would also give opponents 2 schemes to be concerned about and could get Melo some playing time which could then help KG get extra rest. Certainly an out of the box idea, but I am wondering if its crazy enough that it might just work??

[zenter]

Missed this game again, I have to start DVRing these.

Serious question, lets assume for a second that Melo simply cant develop enough this year and grasp our switching / help defense. To get KG some rest, might we be able to play zone [as much as you can in the NBA anyway] with Melo on the court with the 2nd unit? It would be difficult for Doc to balance defensive practice time between man and zone, but it would also give opponents 2 schemes to be concerned about and could get Melo some playing time which could then help KG get extra rest. Certainly an out of the box idea, but I am wondering if its crazy enough that it might just work??

Dude, I honestly mean no offense when I say this: Chill.

A semi-experienced guy like Jeff Green said it took him a couple months to learn the Celtics system. Add in that Melo 1) is young, 2) isn't a native English speaker, 3) hasn't played basketball his entire life and 4) has only played zone so far, and it would pretty much be a spaghetti-monster-level miracle if he showed much more than he has shown. He was drafted like 2 weeks ago and has barely played a few minutes in a man-to-man/rotation scheme.

How about we don't assume anything until we get UP TO a small sample size.

[Jed Zeppelin]

The Celtics switched to a zone quite a lot this season. Eases up on the old legs a bit and gives opponents a different look to disrupt them in short spurts. I'm sure they'll continue to do it naturally when the situation calls for it.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Moore looks very savvy on the offensive end. He's good at finding space for those tweener shots. Joseph was great on both ends in the 1st, aggressive with perimeter D and I don't think his man got by him once.

Gibson entered the game, threw the ball away, next possession dribbled for 20 seconds then threw the ball to the other team, next possession double dribble, next possession charging foul. Dribbles it off his foot a couple minutes later.

Melo just made an awesome pass down low to JJJ for the slam.

Sully's very good in the post (just got screwed out of a nice and-1 on a bad charge call). Outside shot hasn't fallen today but the stroke looks good.

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 11 July 2012 - 10:30 AM.

[wutang112878]

A semi-experienced guy like Jeff Green said it took him a couple months to learn the Celtics system. Add in that Melo 1) is young, 2) isn't a native English speaker, 3) hasn't played basketball his entire life and 4) has only played zone so far, and it would pretty much be a spaghetti-monster-level miracle if he showed much more than he has shown. He was drafted like 2 weeks ago and has barely played a few minutes in a man-to-man/rotation scheme.

I agree we need to see more before Doc would actually implement this strategy, I was just thinking of a strategy that might allow Melo to get on the court if he cant develop rapidly.

Plus, I think your bullet points help prove my point, Melo has a lot to overcome to allow him to develop: age, language, general basketball experience and experience in man to man. Its difficult enough for non-elite talented rookies to contribute right away without these issues, so I think it might be a tall task for Melo to overcome those 4 points and make the adjustment to the NBA game. All the more reason that, IMHO anyway, the coaching staff might want to start to thinking about contingency plans to allow him to be productive on the court if they cant find a veteran 4 or 5 who can play our man to man defense and let KG get rest.

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

Sullinger and Joseph have impressed me.

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

Fab is dropping dimes. Nice pass.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Sullinger is unstoppable getting to the hoop.

Melo with another brilliant pass down low to set up and easy lay in.

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Fab is dropping dimes. Nice pass.

Yeah, that was a nice look. He made a really nice pass last game too. Hopefully, he continues to show he's a good passer down in the paint.

[Jed Zeppelin]

These refs suck. Melo with a clean block.

[ElcaballitoMVP]

BIG BLOCK BY MELO....but they called a foul. That looked clean.

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

Looked like a clean block by Melo on Plumlee

[DannyDarwinism]

Kris Joseph is going to be a rotation player in this league. He's athletic, can defend a little and can shoot a little. One of those guys who does everything, but doesn't really stand out in anything. Definitely useful as a second rounder.

Sully really has a good-looking shot. I knew he shot well from 3 last year, and his form tells me he'll be able to carry this over to the pro game. Great hands and smooth moves too.

But Melo is the guy surprising me. I'm really beginning to think that he actually might have a high game-IQ, and that his rep otherwise has been based on his newness to basketball and the fact that he was physically dominant against his competition up until now. Hopefully he's the type of guy to thrive from playing better players.

[collings94]

I'm really excited for Sullinger, all he needs to do is pass the Celtic test now.

For those of you who are wondering, the Celtic test is when Tommy compares you to a hall of fame player.

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

Rick Kamla still sucks.

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Nice couple of possessions there for Sully. Good show on the pick and roll D to cause a turnover and then comes down to the other end and has a really nice pass to Christmas for an easy layup.

Edit- And now a block on the defensive end

Edited by ElcaballitoMVP, 11 July 2012 - 11:38 AM.