307 replies to this topic

[bosockboy]

Punto and Lillibridge on the same bench seems strange. My guess is DMac gets DFA.

[joyofsox]

Peter Abraham and Nick Cafardo reporting it as fact:

The Red Sox have traded infielder Kevin Youkilis to the Chicago White Sox, major league sources told the Globe.

The Red Sox received 25-year-old righthander Zach Stewart and utility player Brent Lillibridge.

The Red Sox also will be picking up $5.5 million of the $6.6 million Youkilis has remaining on his contract for this season. ...

Lillibridge will be reporting to the Red Sox with Stewart being assigned to Triple A Pawtucket.

http://www.boston.co...youkilis_8.html

[Yaz4Ever]

I'd much rather DMac over either of them.

[Remagellan]

Keeping Youkilis wasn't an option. Nowhere to play him, not happy as a backup. As far as paying his contract, that's the way these in-season trades always go down. They got pieces that could help for a guy they didn't want or need. Let's move on.

I agree with the move-on sentiment but the Red Sox made a team they're fighting against for a playoff spot stronger, and paid 5.5 million for that "privilege".


Goodbye and thank you, Youks!

[joyofsox]

Punto and Lillibridge on the same bench seems strange. My guess is DMac gets DFA.

But will his daughter lose her interviewing gig? If she does, maybe this means NESN will show more of the games!!!

[curly2]

As for Stewart, everyone bitched about Mortensen also and he's been a decent find.

The difference is that deal was Mortensen and salary relief (money to sign Ross) for Scutaro. This is Youkilis AND $5.5 million.

[Ed Hillel]

We basically just gave Kevin Youkilis away and paid 85% of his salary in the process. Oh, and we don't have an adequate corner infielder replacement.

[E5 Yaz]

Punto and Lillibridge on the same bench seems strange. My guess is DMac gets DFA.

Why?

For right now, Lillibridge just takes Youk's roster spot. The outfield will sort itself out later

[Batman Likes The Sox]

Right, and Keith Law had him just 2 years ago in his top 100 (top 50? can't quite remember). He also threw a no-hitter last year and, after that, began sucking. He's sucked bad this year, too, and no idea on why his velocity has dropped. But certainly a decent flier to place in AAA and see if he can get his mojo back, if he does he won't be the first pitcher to struggle for a year or upon making the majors and then turn it around. I'm not sure how one could expect more than a flier, in addition to some salary relief and a leftie killer.

It was last year, and Law had Zach Stewart at #44. Obviously he's not lived up to that but he is still just 25. Can't find a direct link anymore but many boards such as this one agree about the #44.
http://www.baseball-...p-100-Prospects

So overall this seems like a couple million dollars plus a couple chances at getting a player who will be decent, along with clearing up some of the issues with the infield and possibly in the clubhouse.

[Infield Infidel]

I don't think Youk was going to put it all together until he gets playing time, and he wasn't going to get PT here. The only option was a timeshare at 1b/3b/DH, and he wasn't happy with that.

So Papi is the last of the 25?

[Ed Hillel]

Lillibridge this year:

.175/.232/.190/.422 with 4 BB and 26 K in 68 AB.

[Mystic Merlin]

We basically just gave Kevin Youkilis away and paid 85% of his salary in the process. Oh, and we don't have an adequate corner infielder replacement.

Which we didn't have before the trade was made, both in terms of production and a desire to be a corner infielder replacement.

[86spike]

I agree with the move-on sentiment but the Red Sox made a team they're fighting against for a playoff spot stronger,

Not if Youks keeps sucking the way he has been all year.

[Ed Hillel]

Which we didn't have before the trade was made, both in terms of production and a desire to be a corner infielder replacement.

As "bad" as Youk was, he was still an adequate backup at the position, and you know his numbers would likely go up anyway, especially if he went in as a replacement and got steady playing time. They just paid his salary, and got a far worse replacement back.

What's the point of this? To save 1.1 million dollars? To make a team who will likely be fighting for a wild card spot against you better?

I mean, I guess it's supposed to be a clubhouse thing. Meh.

Not if Youks keeps sucking the way he has been all year.

1. It's unlikely he'll stay under .700 OPS the rest of the season.

2. Did you see the guy he's replacing?

Edited by Ed Hillel, 24 June 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[SoxScout]

Not if Youks keeps sucking the way he has been all year.

The White Sox 3B have a combined line of .167 .243 .224

Edited by SoxScout, 24 June 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[The Boomer]

Stewart is Michael Bowden with options. Youks, at this point, was nothing more than a reserve corner infielder and sometimes DH who believed he should still start despite being passed by a better youngster. Lillibridge is a reserve who can play anywhere on the diamond except catcher. If he hits anything like he did in 2011, that will be a bonus. Both teams essentially swapped buy low reserves with the hope they can recapture former glory. The younger Lillibridge (still in his twenties) is arguably a better gamble to bounce back in his accustomed reserve role. Unloading a malcontent reserve for a younger (happy to be a) utility player plus an emergency AAA pitcher was as much as he was worth.

Reddick and Lowrie were in much the same situation last winter and the Sox got roughly what they were worth in return too when those deals were made. If they were truly willing to commit to either or both players as a regular in 2012, they would have held onto them. Given how injury prone Lowrie has been, it is understandable why they chose the lower upside of Avila with prospects rising through the minors. Lowrie and Reddick are good starters on second division teams and good reserves on contenders.

Former starters relegated to reserve roles are worth no more than other reserves. Proven reserves still in their twenties are actually a decent return for a player like Youks declining in his thirties.

[RedOctober3829]

As "bad" as Youk was, he was still an adequate backup at the position, and you know his numbers would likely go up anyway, especially if he went in as a replacement and got steady playing time. They just paid his salary, and got a far worse replacement back.

What's the point of this? To save 1.1 million dollars? To make a team who will likely be fighting for a wild card spot against you better?




1. It's unlikely he'll stay under .700 OPS the rest of the season.

2. Did you see the guy he's replacing?

If Kevin Youkilis' production on the White Sox is the reason the Red Sox miss the playoffs, we're all fucked.

[86spike]

As "bad" as Youk was, he was still an adequate backup at the position, and you know his numbers would likely go up anyway, especially if he went in as a replacement and got steady playing time. They just paid his salary, and got a far worse replacement back.

What's the point of this? To save 1.1 million dollars? To make a team who will likely be fighting for a wild card spot against you better?

Why is it likely he would improve? People keep saying this, but isn't it just as likely that he's creaky, old and run down? Add in him being an attitude problem... and it's better to get him gone.

Hopefully Stewart can find his top prospect mojo with our AAA coaching staff. He's the lottery ticket we paid for.

[AimingForYoko]

I'd much rather DMac over either of them.

Right?

Lillibridge...ew.

[Ed Hillel]

If Kevin Youkilis' production on the White Sox is the reason the Red Sox miss the playoffs, we're all fucked.

Given what he's replacing, he could be worth a few wins to that team. Regardless of how things shake out, why do that, especially when you are paying his salary?

Why is it likely he would improve? People keep saying this, but isn't it just as likely that he's creaky, old and run down? Add in him being an attitude problem... and it's better to get him gone.

Because he's always put up better numbers, and it's more likely he's just having a bad start than completely falling off the map at age 33. Again, even if he doesn't, he's a significant upgrade over what CWS has at the position.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 24 June 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[someoneanywhere]

I know this is going to work when the collective wisdom around here hates it.

[RedOctober3829]

Given what he's replacing, he could be worth a few wins to that team. Regardless of how things shake out, why do that, especially when you are paying his salary?




Because he's always put up better numbers, and it's more likely he's just having a bad start than completely falling off the map at age 33. Again, even if he doesn't, he's a significant upgrade over what CWS has at the position.

In his last 76 games, dating back to last year, Youkilis has hit .211 (58-275) with 8 HR, 29 RBI.

[Hendu's Gait]

Going forward, who is likely to remain for the future as the IF sub (post-Punto, so 2014 probably), Ciriaco or Lillibridge?

I wouldn't mind a 2014 lineup of: WMD, Iglesias, Pedroia, Adrian Gonzalez, Salty, Carl, Ells, Ross, with a bench of Ciriaco (SS, 3B, 2B), Lars (1B, LF, if not starting DH), backup C, and Sweeney (CF/RF)

[SoxScout]

In his last 76 games, dating back to last year, Youkilis has hit .211 (58-275) with 8 HR, 29 RBI.

He was hurt, and a slow start this year. He OPSed .850 May-June-July last year.

[Trlicek's Whip]

Lillibridge this year:

.175/.232/.190/.422 with 4 BB and 26 K in 68 AB.

48 games, only 12 of which he started, and 7 SB in that limited sample size. He's generally a late-inning replacement/pinch runner. As a playoff roster bench piece, he trumps Punto.

[SoxScout]

Going forward, who is likely to remain for the future as the IF sub (post-Punto, so 2014 probably), Ciriaco or Lillibridge?

I wouldn't mind a 2014 lineup of: WMD, Iglesias, Pedroia, Adrian Gonzalez, Salty, Carl, Ells, Ross, with a bench of Ciriaco (SS, 3B, 2B), Lars (1B, LF, if not starting DH), backup C, and Sweeney (CF/RF)

You're trying to work out our 2014 bench? I'm willing to bet 5 of those 11 players you named aren't even in the organization.

[foulkehampshire]

He was hurt, and a slow start this year. He OPSed .850 May-June-July last year.

At 33 years old, he might not have the ability to become a healthy player at this point.

[PaulinMyrBch]

I know this is going to work when the collective wisdom around here hates it.

I rarely comment early in trade forums because I defer to those on the board who have more knowledge of players coming back, but I think I'm going to start with an immediate "Fuck, these guys suck!" on every trade in the future...can't go wrong with that one.

[Hendu's Gait]

You're trying to work out our 2014 bench? I'm willing to bet 5 of those 11 players you named aren't even in the organization.

I'm working in a Punto-less world. You're probably right though. Another part of this trade I don't like is that it probably cements Punto even more for next year and end of this year.

[RedOctober3829]

He was hurt, and a slow start this year. He OPSed .850 May-June-July last year.

So what did you want to do with him? Obviously, they wanted him off the roster because Middlebrooks deserves to play everyday. Youk apparently didn't want to accept a part-time role with this club, so the only choice was to move him. If this was the best offer on the table, Cherington had to do it.

[Yaz4Ever]

Right?

Lillibridge...ew.

a. I have no idea who you used to be
b. Am I correct in thinking that you feel Lillibridge is an upgrade over DMac?

[kazuneko]

...Lowrie and Reddick are good starters on second division teams and good reserves on contenders.

I understand this is not your primary point but I think you may have meant "Lowrie and Reddick looked like they might be just good starters on a second division teams and good reserves on contenders". After all, Josh Reddick is on pace to hit nearly 40 home runs this year - playing half his games in the least homer-friendly AL park. Meanwile, Lowrie just happens to be the shortstop with the most home runs in the majors (and the second best OPS)....

[Rudy Pemberton]

Will we ever stop with the ridiculous Punto hate? The guy has been fine, hell, he's gotten on base at a much better rate than Youkilis.

[Wingack]

I don't think Cherigton can be blamed here. Veterans need to learn that sometimes, when you suck, you need to just ride the bench and not be a malcontent because of it. Adam Dunn did it last year and things have reverted back to normal this year.

Ed Hillel is right that this leaves them without an adequate corner infield replacement. It shouldn't have been too big of a deal for Youkilis to fill that role, but in the game today it is.

[ShaneTrot]

I know this is going to work when the collective wisdom around here hates it.

Well, we all seemed to like the Melancon and Bailey trades. And of course, Lowrie and Reddick have been great and Melancon sucks, and Bailey has been hurt and Ryan Sweeney who can get on base but has no pop.

[Rasputin]

Will we ever stop with the ridiculous Punto hate? The guy has been fine, hell, he's gotten on base at a much better rate than Youkilis.

It's not ridiculous, Punto is terrible. If you want to make the case that the team would be worse with Lowrie starting and Aviles as the primary backup, you go right ahead.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

At 33 years old, he might not have the ability to become a healthy player at this point.

Isn't this a medical issue? Because if Youks is healthy, he's going to hit. Probably better than WMB for the rest of this year.

I think the trade is idiotic, but I'm not in charge.

[Sprowl]

Well, we all seemed to like the Melancon and Bailey trades. And of course, Lowrie and Reddick have been great and Melancon sucks, and Bailey has been hurt and Ryan Sweeney who can get on base but has no pop.

Really? My recollection is that the Melancon deal was broadly but not universally panned because people didn't think that Melancon was AL East material (how's that cutter working out so far?), didn't like the notion of overpaying for an unpredictable commodity like reliever, saw upside in Weiland's fastball, and remembered that Lowrie can be an effective hitter when healthy.

[Hendu's Gait]

Well, we all seemed to like the Melancon and Bailey trades. And of course, Lowrie and Reddick have been great and Melancon sucks, and Bailey has been hurt and Ryan Sweeney who can get on base but has no pop.

I have no idea what you're talking about. First 5 people in the thread with a reaction disliked it.

http://sonsofsamhorn...-mark-melancon/

[Ed Hillel]

So what did you want to do with him? Obviously, they wanted him off the roster because Middlebrooks deserves to play everyday. Youk apparently didn't want to accept a part-time role with this club, so the only choice was to move him. If this was the best offer on the table, Cherington had to do it.

They could have told him to suck it up and play when asked, and that there was a decent chance he'd end up starting a good number of games at some point anyway. Seems like that's worth the 1.1 million dollar risk.

[Wingack]

They could have told him to suck it up and play when asked, and that there was a decent chance he'd end up starting a good number of games at some point anyway. Seems like that's worth the 1.1 million dollar risk.

Exactly this. If a player isn't playing up to his ability, no matter how much he is being paid, they have to to realize that the bench is an option.

[Pxer]

Tejeda DFA'd

https://twitter.com/...015509848297472

Someone could claim him, I guess if they've got a spot open, but not looking like a huge loss. Still, you like to hold onto such guys when you can.

Edited by Pxer, 24 June 2012 - 05:42 PM.

[SoxScout]

Neither Stewart nor Lillibridge fared particularly well during the first half with the White Sox—Stewart allowed 10 home runs in 30 innings while Lillibridge put up a .422 OPS—but each offers versatility and enough talent to serve in a complementary role. Stewart got rocked for six runs (on four homers) in 5 2/3 innings during his lone start this season, and he had been only marginally better in 17 relief appearances, posting a 15-4 K-BB ratio and 1.48 WHIP. His best offering is a low-80s slider, and his fastball has lost a tick or two since his prospect days and he now pitches at 87-91 mph, relying on cutting and running action instead of pure velocity. Stewart finds the strike zone often with his slider, fastball and changeup, but his time in Chicago provided ample evidence that when he misses his location opponents tend to hit the ball a long way. He allowed 19 homers in 80 2/3 innings during the past two seasons, or 2.1 per nine innings.

http://www.baseballa...12/2613605.html

[ShaneTrot]

Really? My recollection is that the Melancon deal was broadly but not universally panned because people didn't think that Melancon was AL East material (how's that cutter working out so far?), didn't like the notion of overpaying for an unpredictable commodity like reliever, saw upside in Weiland's fastball, and remembered that Lowrie can be an effective hitter when healthy.

Well, who expected Lowrie to be this good?

[RedOctober3829]

They could have told him to suck it up and play when asked, and that there was a decent chance he'd end up starting a good number of games at some point anyway. Seems like that's worth the 1.1 million dollar risk.

Yes they could and probably did communicate this to him. Such a quick move suggests he didn't want to do this and Cherington didn't want the situation to get worse. They had enough respect for him and what he's done to find him a place where he could play everyday. I have no problem with what they did and would have been OK if they didn't trade him as well. But, I'm glad he gets to play everyday and put himself in a position where he can get one more good payday with a good end to the year. He's done a helluva lot for this team, so I wish him the best of luck.

Edit: Cherington said he spoke several times with Youkilis, first time a few days ago. So the idea that he was kept out the loop was wrong.

https://twitter.com/...026328598286336

Edited by RedOctober3829, 24 June 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[Rough Carrigan]

You might be right. But, at the same time, you can say that the 0.975 season was the 7th straight season his OPS increased (in other words, it increased every single season he was in the ML). Then, last year, he got injured (and contributed) to a "poor" season where he had an OBP of 0.373. And this year, I feel anyway, now that he's healthy, you are going to see more of the 2010 Youks. But, we'll soon see. That dude is a beast with the bat.

Maybe I'm overstating his value, but man, I didn't even want to see him go.

I get what you're saying, but does he look anything like that .975 OPS player any more?

That strikeout against Heath Bell was pretty telling. That was 92 mph right. down. the. pipe. And he couldn't do anything with it.

Edited by Rough Carrigan, 24 June 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[mauidano]

Brent Lillibridge-Bucholz twin brother separated at birth.

[Sprowl]

Well, who expected Lowrie to be this good?

I dunno about expecting Lowrie to be so good, but clearly it was a risk. We've seen Lowrie carry a team for a month, and we've also seen plenty of times when it looked like his left-handed stroke might come back to adequate. The problem with Cherington's trades so far isn't that he trades away talent, it's that he seems to bring back less talent in exchange. Perhaps Bailey will come off the injured list and prove me wrong, but right now his arm seems to be falling off the man.

[MikeM]

But will anyone be shocked to see Youk hit .300/.380/.500 the rest of the way and snag a 3/$36 deal in the offseason?

Me, especially if 1 million was apparently the most i'm guessing we could get any team to kick in on him right now. Aramis Ramirez got pretty lucky last winter. There's zero chance a strong 3 month finish is pulling a 3 year deal out of the hat here imo.

As for the trade, Stewart with options works given the circumstances i guess. Although yuck on Lillibridge. Thanks for the ride Youk, it was a great one that exceeded almost every expectation. Moving on....

[OttoC]

We basically just gave Kevin Youkilis away and paid 85% of his salary in the process. Oh, and we don't have an adequate corner infielder replacement.

And they apparently gave Oscar Tejada away, too, as he was DFA'd to make room on the 40-man roster.