81 replies to this topic

[knucklecup]

He's been really good this year.

People who know baseball better than I, explain to me why this is. I've always thought of him as a fourth outfielder or at best a 7-8-9 hitter, but he's been really good.

OPS probably over .900 with today's homer.

When Ells and Crawford come back, what happens there as well?

[El Tiante]

I hope they keep him, because he provides a much needed right handed bat in this line up.

[Al Zarilla]

He's been really good this year.

People who know baseball better than I, explain to me why this is. I've always thought of him as a fourth outfielder or at best a 7-8-9 hitter, but he's been really good.

OPS probably over .900 with today's homer.

When Ells and Crawford come back, what happens there as well?

He had a sensational post season in 2010 for the Giants, was hurt a lot since. I hope 2010 and all of this year is the new Ross.

[Corsi]

Bump!

[Papelbon's Poutine]

At this point they have to give him more than a straight platoon roll with either Sweeey or Kalish, if not the RF job outright.

(null)

[SoxScout]

14 hits against LHP this year: 6 HR, 3 2B, 1 3B

[bosockboy]

Yes he deserves the RF job with this level of production. Either Sweeney gets moved or Kalish to AAA when the cavalry gets here.

[JMDurron]

Back in one of the first NESN broadcasts of the season, they played a clip where they had asked Ortiz which newcomer was going to have the biggest offensive impact. Ortiz named Ross, said that he expected him to mash this year.

Point Papi.

EDIT - That said, the splits do bring some substance to the discussion.

Vs LHP: 279/360/674 in 50 PA
vs RHP: 269/339/491 in 122 PA

He's been great against LHP, and good enough against RHP, but he's not an obvious straight starting candidate, as opposed to being a platoon player. There's an argument to be made that he could platoon with Crawford while Crawford is trying to "find his swing" or something against RHP when he returns, if the team chooses to go that route.

Edited by JMDurron, 24 June 2012 - 02:46 PM.

[Savin Hillbilly]

He's been really good this year.

People who know baseball better than I, explain to me why this is. I've always thought of him as a fourth outfielder

Not this, but this:

He's been great against LHP, and good enough against RHP, but he's not an obvious straight starting candidate, as opposed to being a platoon player.

He's always mashed LHP (career line: .282/.350/.569). So his line vs. lefties so far is not that far out of his career norm, and the extra SLG may just reflect the Wall, which he is very well suited to take advantage of, since he tends to hit mortar shots.

The Sox' idea of platooning him with Sweeney was a good one; they just haven't had much chance to actually try it yet.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I feel like it's been a while since we've had a right-handed hitter with a swing so tailor-made for Fenway. Modern-day Jack Clark (or what we hoped he'd be at the time)?

[Rasputin]

I feel like it's been a while since we've had a right-handed hitter with a swing so tailor-made for Fenway. Modern-day Jack Clark (or what we hoped he'd be at the time)?

No, Jack Clark hit line drives. Cody Ross has more lift. From the department of the wall giveth and the wall taketh away, the wall should be givething more to Ross than to Clark.

[Drek717]

He's been really good this year.

People who know baseball better than I, explain to me why this is. I've always thought of him as a fourth outfielder or at best a 7-8-9 hitter, but he's been really good.

OPS probably over .900 with today's homer.


When Ells and Crawford come back, what happens there as well?

Swing made for Fenway, been healthy most of the season, and has been utilized well (seeing lots of LHPs).

I think the answer for Ross the rest of this season is obvious. He's the RF against all lefties and probably a 50/50 split against righties with one of Kalish/Nava/Sweeney until he cools down, even when he does he probably still takes all the LHP ABs and a nice little sum of the RHP ABs.

The big question for Ross that I have is this: Do we look to bring him back next season? I think a lot of that depends on what the market might hold for him and what Crawford does when he gets back, but if the market doesn't go crazy for Ross you could definitely find more than a few ABs for him in a Crawford/Ellsbury/Kalish starting OF. Namely against every LHP in one of the corners, and probably a couple starts a week besides.

[PaulinMyrBch]

The bat flip on what might have been only a wall ball RBI was priceless. The bat flip on the no doubter came with extra swag. Love this guy, tailors his bat flip to the length of the homer.

[pokey_reese]

I feel like it's been a while since we've had a right-handed hitter with a swing so tailor-made for Fenway. Modern-day Jack Clark (or what we hoped he'd be at the time)?

Reminds me of Jason Bay.

[MoGator71]

No, Jack Clark hit line drives. Cody Ross has more lift. From the department of the wall giveth and the wall taketh away, the wall should be givething more to Ross than to Clark.

He's doing what people predicted Millar would do with the wall.

[SoxScout]

Probably not a popular idea, but if we are a healthy team just after the all star break, you have to think Ross' bat and less than $1M owed to him will be a pretty damn attractive commodity. Are we going to be signing a 32-year old coming off a career year to a multi-year deal? If someone is going to offer us something interesting, will we pass on it so we can play him over Sweeney/Kalish/Nava?

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Very much enjoying Ross for this year.

But considering Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, and Brentz. . . young and cheap RHH power was the one bright spot in the upper minors leading into this season. A 1 year + option is probably as much as I'd be comfortable with for re-signing Ross. And that's probably less than others will offer.

[Adrian's Dome]

He's the perfect compliment to the LHH-heavy potential starting OF we have in Hot Carl, Ellsbury, and Kalish. He could easily find enough at-bats against LHP to effectively platoon with all three of those guys and put up great numbers, and I can't think of a better backup plan in case one of them goes down.

[bosockboy]

Probably not a popular idea, but if we are a healthy team just after the all star break, you have to think Ross' bat and less than $1M owed to him will be a pretty damn attractive commodity. Are we going to be signing a 32-year old coming off a career year to a multi-year deal? If someone is going to offer us something interesting, will we pass on it so we can play him over Sweeney/Kalish/Nava?

The problem is all those guys are lefty (Nava pretty much is). That would make us terribly thin from the RHH side; I'd think whatever we could get for Ross wouldn't be attractive enough to go from Ross to McDonald.

[TheoShmeo]

Probably not a popular idea, but if we are a healthy team just after the all star break, you have to think Ross' bat and less than $1M owed to him will be a pretty damn attractive commodity. Are we going to be signing a 32-year old coming off a career year to a multi-year deal? If someone is going to offer us something interesting, will we pass on it so we can play him over Sweeney/Kalish/Nava?

I agree that Ross should be attractive to other teams, but the uncertainties around Ells and Crawford returning (timing, how effective they'll be after long rehabs and Crawford's performance last year) would make me loathe to do anything with Ross until a lot more was known. And that might be after the July 31 deadline.

That Nava, Kalish, Sweeney and Podsednik have performed as well as they have should make trading Ross easier, but all of those guys (except maybe Kalish) have been pleasant surprises and no one should be stunned if they levelled off substantially.

Plus, Ross seems like a natural fit for Fenway and like a player who enjoys the Boston experience more than others.

[Savin Hillbilly]

Plus, Ross seems like a natural fit for Fenway and like a player who enjoys the Boston experience more than others.

I agree with this. He's not only a natural fit for Fenway but for the current roster; with Youk gone, he's one of the very few righthanded hitters with pop on the team. He's useful, non-redundant, and cheap. Maybe sell if we're well and truly out of it by July 31, but only then.

Put another way, I don't think the choice in SoxScout's scenario is between Ross and Sweeney/Kalish/Nava. It's among Sweeney/Kalish/Nava, because there's a lot more redundancy there.

[Mugsys Jock]

Probably not a popular idea, but if we are a healthy team just after the all star break, you have to think Ross' bat and less than $1M owed to him will be a pretty damn attractive commodity. Are we going to be signing a 32-year old coming off a career year to a multi-year deal? If someone is going to offer us something interesting, will we pass on it so we can play him over Sweeney/Kalish/Nava?

Interesting thought, but I suspect the Sox will be too close to tank and, as noted above, shipping off a scarce RH power bat would hurt the 2012 team too much.

But...what might get interesting is that Ross could approach a real compensation level if offered arb. Highly unlikely he'd accept a one-year deal, so a meaningful pick could come back.

[Joshv02]

Iirc, the only draft pick comp comes if a team offers arb equalling a qualifying offer, which this year is $12mm. Ross won't get draft compensation.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Iirc, the only draft pick comp comes if a team offers arb equalling a qualifying offer, which this year is $12mm. Ross won't get draft compensation.

Yes, and just to be most specific, that $12m number is because the offer has to at least be the average of the top 125 salaries in the preceding year (I'm pretty sure - but it might be on the books for the coming year, not sure about that).

Cody ain't one of the top 125 players in the league.

Have to say I like the new compensation system. Makes a lot more sense than how some random group of people rated the player for previous performance and all of that type a, b nonsense.

[Eric Van]

The three-run bomb he hit in the 4th off of Minor Saturday may have been the single cheapest most Fenway homer I've ever seen. So, yeah,dead-pull high-fly-ball-hitting lefty masher + Fenway = perfect fit. He's now hitting .298 / .370 / .787 vs. LHP.

But when Crawford comes back, Nava (.364 / .477 / .545 vs. RHP) has got to move to RF vs. RHP. He played there exclusively in indie ball and still has more minor league PT there than in LF. So while LF is clearly his better position, the whole package in RF has gotta be better than anything else we can send out there vs. RHP.

And Ross will stay here as a perfect fourth OF on a team with essentially three LHH OFers. Maybe for a while

[SoxScout]

FWIW, Bradford talked on tv tonight about trading Ross, he thinks he has tremendous amount of value but ultimately won't be traded.

http://www.csnne.com...mqFG6xCDmnn8ln0

[Rasputin]

Why the hell would a team in contention trade one of their valuable players?

I mean, sure if you have an in house replacement ready, but we don't, not for Ross.

[Al Zarilla]

Bump. Interview with Cody on WEEI, well, WEEI.com for me. As we've heard him say before, he likes it here, great group of guys, all get along. Boston media is nuts and sometimes manufactures a story (he was put up to that completely though). Asked about the future, he said he's not at the stage in his career where he would be expecting a big long term deal. Wants to be with a team he feels is in it with a chance to win year in and year out. Boston meets that criteria. Said he really doesn't want to go to a mediocre team. Git r done!

[joe dokes]

He sort of reminds me of Millar.

[LeoCarrillo]

Ross seems a perfect fit for Fenway. What's the consensus ETA on Bryce Brentz coming up to give us a righty OF? I'd think if we could get Ross on a two-year deal, and not go three, it'd be worth overpaying a bit.

[Seabass177]

Ross seems a perfect fit for Fenway. What's the consensus ETA on Bryce Brentz coming up to give us a righty OF? I'd think if we could get Ross on a two-year deal, and not go three, it'd be worth overpaying a bit.

Brentz shouldn't have any impact on what the Sox decide to do with Ross. He's playing OK in AA, but he's struck out in about 30% of his PA. You can't count on him for anything yet.

Considering how well he's playing and how perfectly he fits this club, I'd be fine with giving him a two year deal, but he'll probably be able to get three if he keeps up this pace. This is one signing that the FO can hang their hat on.

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Sign the fucking guy.

[bosockboy]

Willingham got 3/21...I'd say that's the cost to keep him from free agency. And I'd do that.

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I almost added 3/$25 to my post, so we're not far apart.

[Dogman2]

You guys would sign Ross at 3/25 but not Ortiz at 2/28-30? Really?

[SoxScout]

Signing a player for years 32-34 coming off a career year doesn't seem like something I expect to happen, this power is way out of whack and his K-rate is spiking. There is no denying he has been awesome.

[bosockboy]

You guys would sign Ross at 3/25 but not Ortiz at 2/28-30? Really?

I'd do both for sure (Ross more like 3/21).

[Dogman2]

I would do 3/18 for Ross and 2/30 for Ortiz. One good RH power hitter and one top 5 in the league LH power hitter. Our lineup is would be set completely for the next 2 years.

Edited by Dogman2, 19 July 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I would do 3/18 for Ross and 2/30 for Ortiz. One good RH power hitter and one top 5 in the league LH power hitter. Our lineup is would be set completely for the next 2 years.

I would do that, too. Ortiz leads the league in batting wins right now. 6th in total bases. 2nd in OBP. 3rd in Slugging.

Sure, he's just a DH. But who else is getting that kind of production from a DH? It's still a slot you have to fill. Just because other teams choose to rotate players through doesn't mean that's the best way to do it. Most teams can't afford an expensive DH. That's where the Sox should employ their monetary advantage.

As for Cody Ross:
.750 OPS in 172 PA vs. righties
1.246 OPS in 78 PA vs. lefties

Looks bad, right? Well, Sweeney is at .740 against righties, so he's better than his platoon partner. Pay him the money and jettison Sweeney and have Nava (a switch-hitter, maybe more useful) be the backup and have Ciriaco, Punto, Shop be the rest of your bench. 12 pitchers. Punto backs up 1B, but we never really need a 1B backup. Crawford, Ells, Ross is your outfield for at least this year and next.

If Kalish is a world beater, he takes Nava's spot next year and replaces Ells the year after that.

So you're essentially:

Ells
Crawford
Pedroia
Papi
Gonzo
Ross
Middlebrooks
Salty
Aviles

That lineup should murder.

Edited by MyDaughterLovesTomGordon, 19 July 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[SydneySox]

Message from Lurker soxhop411



thought this should be posted in the ross thread on the main board

Edited by SydneySox, 19 July 2012 - 10:51 PM.

[Savin Hillbilly]

I would do 3/18 for Ross and 2/30 for Ortiz. One good RH power hitter and one top 5 in the league LH power hitter. Our lineup is would be set completely for the next 2 years.

I can't believe Ross won't get better offers than 3/$18M. And he should. He's a better defender than Willingham, who got 3/$21.

[knucklecup]

I wouldn't go beyond 3 years/$15 million for him. It sucks we didn't include a team option or just guaranteed him a second year. It's kind of laughable if you think about it - "Punto is good enough for two guaranteed years but lets take it just one at a time with Ross."

[MikeM]

I wouldn't go beyond 3 years/$15 million for him. It sucks we didn't include a team option or just guaranteed him a second year. It's kind of laughable if you think about it - "Punto is good enough for two guaranteed years but lets take it just one at a time with Ross."

Given Ross reportedly started out last winter looking for a 3 year deal, i think it's safe to assume that once the projected money got down to the $3m/per range, he really wasn't looking for the 2 year deal at that kind of rate.

I think i liked the idea of signing Cameron to a 2 year deal more then i do the concept of signing Ross to 3 at $7m+/per. It's not Carl Crawford going backwards in the min/max spending type approach we need to steer away from imo, but yeah, i personally hope to see Ben play a more conservative hand then that going forward here.


Smile on the good fortune you got out of the signing this year, pat yourself on the back at year's end, and then move along imo.

Edited by MikeM, 20 July 2012 - 03:06 AM.

[OCD SS]

…I personally hope to see Ben play a more conservative hand then that going forward here.

Smile on the good fortune you got out of the signing this year, pat yourself on the back at year's end, and then move along imo.

Yeah, I get that game winning HRs are a lot of fun and Ross is hitting well, but the irrational exuberance of suggesting signing him to a 3 year deal is out of control. I mean at least wait and see how he finishes out the year.

But more important are the long term plans for the OF. Ross was signed to be the short side of a platoon with Sweeney, but does anyone think that the Sox aren't eyeing Kalish for that spot long term? Even if you think that he has serious enough platoon issues to warrant a caddy (& that's not something I'm convinced of) we're back to the Nixon era in RF and always trying to find a RHH OFer who's a good defender. I don't think Ross is looking for that job and in any event I don't think it's the sort I position you guarantee someone a lot of money for long term.

[Drek717]

Yeah, I get that game winning HRs are a lot of fun and Ross is hitting well, but the irrational exuberance of suggesting signing him to a 3 year deal is out of control. I mean at least wait and see how he finishes out the year.

But more important are the long term plans for the OF. Ross was signed to be the short side of a platoon with Sweeney, but does anyone think that the Sox aren't eyeing Kalish for that spot long term? Even if you think that he has serious enough platoon issues to warrant a caddy (& that's not something I'm convinced of) we're back to the Nixon era in RF and always trying to find a RHH OFer who's a good defender. I don't think Ross is looking for that job and in any event I don't think it's the sort I position you guarantee someone a lot of money for long term.

A big part of those long term plans hinge on what they decide to do with Ellsbury. If they aren't going to make a serious run at extending him this off-season it might be in their best interest to shop him before he walks, net some high level prospects, and then let Kalish play CF.

Then keeping Ross in RF and platooning him with Nava would make a lot of sense while we wait to see what we get from Brentz, Bradley, and Jacobs. Ideally that platoon would take the form of Ross starting the majority of Fenway games and all starts against LHP, while Nava picks up primarily road starts against RHP.

[OCD SS]

I see JBJ stepping in for Ellsbury; Kalish seems a bit stretched in CF and I don't really think Brentz or Jacobs have shown enough where you can plan on them for much of anything at present. There's certainly not enough there that you give Ross 3 years.

[Toe Nash]

Not mentioned is that Ross might take a slight discount to stay (What that discount is is another question). He seems to like it here and obviously he has a perfect swing for the Monster (Why anyone ever throws him a fastball inside in Fenway is beyond me). So maybe he'd do a two-year deal? We'll see.

[Hokie Sox]

Yeah, I get that game winning HRs are a lot of fun and Ross is hitting well, but the irrational exuberance of suggesting signing him to a 3 year deal is out of control. I mean at least wait and see how he finishes out the year.

But more important are the long term plans for the OF. Ross was signed to be the short side of a platoon with Sweeney, but does anyone think that the Sox aren't eyeing Kalish for that spot long term? Even if you think that he has serious enough platoon issues to warrant a caddy (& that's not something I'm convinced of) we're back to the Nixon era in RF and always trying to find a RHH OFer who's a good defender. I don't think Ross is looking for that job and in any event I don't think it's the sort I position you guarantee someone a lot of money for long term.

And it's the bloated contracts of Crawford and Lackey that makes this unforeseeable. When did we go from trying to outsmart the Yinkees to trying to outdo them? If I were management, I would be embarrassed that we are so cash-strapped that we can't take a flyer on a player like Ross. A 2 year/ 16 million dollar contract looks pretty good right about now for this Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS 2012 31 BOS AL 63 254 223 44 61 16 1 16 50 1 1 25 61 .274 .348 .570 .917

[maufman]

Ross will be roughly a year younger this winter than Michael Cuddyer was last winter. Cuddyer had a career OPS+ of 111, with a 120 OPS+ in his contract year; those numbers for Ross at the moment are 108 and 138.

Ross has a bigger platoon split. Cuddyer can play the infield (badly) in a pinch. Otherwise, they're remarkably similar players.

Michael Cuddyer got 3 years, $31.5mm last winter.

Just sayin'.

[smastroyin]

I would probably trade Ross if there were a stupid offer out there for him, to tell you the truth. I'm not keen on just dumping him, I'm saying if you can get some good value. He is probably playing the best he will and the team still seems like it could go either way in terms of being a playoff team. If you could get a nice asset (not Zach Stewart) then it might be something to explore. I doubt that kind of deal is actually out there, I'm just saying.

That said, I wouldn't start counting chickens in thinking about the OF. Even Kalish right now is a bit questionable. Obviously you need some succession planning, but the Sox haven't had a consistent 4 person OF since 2009.