11 replies to this topic

[RedOctober3829]

I was watching BBTN and Buster Olney said that Colorado is doing some unconventional things with their rotation due to the environment in Colorado. They are shortening to a 4-man rotation and limiting the starters' pitches to 75 per start. They will have 2 pitchers available to throw 125-130 pitches combined. GM Dan O'Dowd points out that the oxygen levels in Denver wear out their pitchers over time.

Thoughts?

[Orel Miraculous]

Saw this earlier this week. I'm glad to see a team experimenting, but I don't think this is the way to do it. I just don't see how the bullpen won't get completely and disastrously worn down.

What I'd like to see a team do is go to a four and half man rotation: starters 1-4 pitch every fifth calendar day no matter what, while the fifth starter starts only when the team plays five games in five days, and is otherwise in the bullpen. Its been done before, but it seems to have gone out of fashion, which is a shame because I think its a tremendously efficient way to manage a pitching staff. The four and half man rotation allows your four best pitchers to make more starts while maintaining regular rest, limits the innings pitched by your worst starting pitcher, and strengthens and expands your bullpen. The only downside is that your 1-4 starters will never get "extra" rest, but with the right mix of pitchers, this shouldn't matter much.

Edited by Orel Miraculous, 24 June 2012 - 12:16 PM.

[ajml]

I can see it worth trying for the year as they know what they have. However if it becomes the organizational philosophy wouldn't that make it next to impossible to sign any top FA pitchers or keep any you develop?

[Spacemans Bong]

What top FA is signing there anyway?

I think 75 pitches is way too low. I am pretty unconvinced that the magic number is not much higher - say 100. 100 pitches gives your bullpen a fighting chance, 75 just means less innings out of your starters than before.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

I can see it worth trying for the year as they know what they have. However if it becomes the organizational philosophy wouldn't that make it next to impossible to sign any top FA pitchers or keep any you develop?

Really, using a piggyback-based staff with eight 3-5 inning pitchers, a closer, and two short relievers suggests that the respective salary difference between starters and relievers should narrow significantly.

So I'd think it would allow Colorado to sign premier FA bullpen arms more easily. I would think the hardest thing would be for the manager not to stretch his best pitchers "just this once...well maybe once more" in order to win close games.

[Wingack]

Interesting, especially following the news that the Mets may be considering a way to use RA Dickey every 4 days.

[mr guido]

Soooooo... the Rockies consider this thing to be a success and have decided to double down in 2013: http://www.denverpos...n-rotation-2013

This despite the fact that they're averaging 5.42 runs per game since making the switch, the worst rate in MLB.

Think I found the problem: of the 13 starters they've trotted out this season, 12 of them have ERAs over 5. Doesn't matter where you position the deck chairs, when your #2 starter at the beginning of a season is a 50 year old Jamie Moyer, this ship is sinking.

The good news for O'Dowd & co. is that ownership is unconcerned with the fact that the team is and will always will be awful. They're in the top-half of the league in attendance, and bottom-third in payroll, which qualifies this season as a clearcut success. The beatings will continue until morale improves!

Edited by mr guido, 30 August 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[MakMan44]

It's funny because they have a solid lineup, they could easily win if their pitching wasn't so godawful.

[Rough Carrigan]

What top FA is signing there anyway?

I think 75 pitches is way too low. I am pretty unconvinced that the magic number is not much higher - say 100. 100 pitches gives your bullpen a fighting chance, 75 just means less innings out of your starters than before.

This.
It was easier to have a 4 man rotation when almost nobody had opposite field power and not that many guys had centerfield power and the value of plate discipline and obp was less appreciated. Guys can't just casually throw 80% effort fastballs on the outside now like they could then. I think you're exactly right that a hard 100 pitch limit would be fine and that 75 is just too low.

[jon abbey]

It's funny because they have a solid lineup, they could easily win if their pitching wasn't so godawful.

This isn't really true at all when you look at their MASSIVE home/road splits. COL scores a league-leading 5.86 runs per game at home, but is almost at the bottom in road games with 3.54. Their pitching splits are similarly huge (5.92 home ERA, 4.38 road).

[MakMan44]

This isn't really true at all when you look at their MASSIVE home/road splits. COL scores a league-leading 5.86 runs per game at home, but is almost at the bottom in road games with 3.54. Their pitching splits are similarly huge (5.92 home ERA, 4.38 road).

Really.... Hmm I knew that Dexter Fowler has those splits but I wasn't aware about their RPG spilts. Still if they win a majority of their home games and their pitching staff figures out a way to not suck (a 4+ ERA on the road is terrible) they could actually sneak into the postseason sooner rather than later.

EDIT: Just doing a quick glance over Tulo and CarG spilts. While Tulo was fine in his limited time this year, CarGo has been pretty terrible away from home this year so maybe I'm just completely off base here.

Edited by MakMan44, 30 August 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[mr guido]

For whatever reason, the Coors park factor this year is worse than it's been in over a decade. I tend to think is mainly the fault of the brilliant team leadership. The park factor trends had been downward post-humidor, but the Rockies have decided to "do something" about it this year, and this "Project 5183" is supposedly a fix to the challenges of Coors Field.

Every pitcher in CO this year is talking about the importance of attacking the zone & maximizing their pitches, since they're yanked so quickly. But we're talking about a ballpark that has historically had the highest BABIP (not to mention home run rates) in the league. My sense is that if there is a stadium where it's important *not* to be predictable and/or put one over the plate for the sake of pitching to contact, it's this one.

Of course, their home record (28-40) is just about as bad as their road record (25-36). So they suck regardless of where they play. But the way to pitch in Colorado is with blazing fastballs (see Jimenez, Ubaldo) and not flyball pitchers & 49 year old junkballers. This is a franchise that just does not "get it."