153 replies to this topic

[lexrageorge]

Even that's a stretch. The guy hasn't been any good since 2010, and 3 of his last 4 years have been complete wastes of time. Thankfully this experience is about to end.

102 million for him. 50 career wins with an ERA+ of 104. The vast majority of his value was acquired in his first two years, since then he's been a net negative.

Just an awful, awful return on investment.

I wouldn't go that far. He did play a valuable role as a mid-to-back of rotation starter in 2007 and 2008, roles which contributed to a World Series title and an appearance in the ALCS. I'd rather have the World Series title than the payroll efficiency title.

In any event, it's time to end this marriage, even if it does mean we're going to lose Justin Verlander for 4 randomly spaced starts.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I wouldn't go that far. He did play a valuable role as a mid-to-back of rotation starter in 2007 and 2008, roles which contributed to a World Series title and an appearance in the ALCS. I'd rather have the World Series title than the payroll efficiency title.

In any event, it's time to end this marriage, even if it does mean we're going to lose Justin Verlander for 4 randomly spaced starts.

The first two years for him were fine. Unfortunately he had a 6 year deal.

[Plympton91]

Look on the bright side, there's another "World Baseball Farce Classic" next spring, and the Red Sox this time have no pitcher in their organization likely to wreck their career by throwing too hard in what should rightfully be meaningless exhibition games during early March.

[Super Nomario]

Look on the bright side, there's another "World Baseball Farce Classic" next spring, and the Red Sox this time have no pitcher in their organization likely to wreck their career by throwing too hard in what should rightfully be meaningless exhibition games during early March.

This is such a jaded attitude. I think the WBC is a neat idea. It's more baseball; who doesn't like more baseball?

[Plympton91]

This is such a jaded attitude. I think the WBC is a neat idea. It's more baseball; who doesn't like more baseball?

The timing is positively moronic. If MLB thinks it is important and wants to support it, then they should do it the last week of March and first week of April and cut the season to 154 games during WBC years.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

The timing is positively moronic. If MLB thinks it is important and wants to support it, then they should do it the last week of March and first week of April and cut the season to 154 games during WBC years.

And lose 8 games' worth of revenue? You must be kidding.

[Plympton91]

And lose 8 games' worth of revenue? You must be kidding.

Precisely; then MLB must not think it is really important, right?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I think rather that MLB would like to have its cake and eat it too.

[yecul]

The regular season isn't also important?

[crystalline]

Eck was harsh on Daisuke last night in the postgame.

Said that he stunk, and put on a terrible pitching performance for what is likely his last start in a Red Sox uniform.
He didn't say "good riddance" explicitly.

[Rudy Pemberton]

20 pitchers have thrown 40+ innings this year with an ERA of 6 or higher. Three of them are Red Sox...(Daniel Bard- 6.33, Mark Melancon- 6.98, and Matsuzaka- 7.68).

Only two pitchers have thrown as many innings as Dice-K with a worse ERA; Ross Ohlendorf (hey, we had him!) with a 7.77 and Jonathan "traded for Melky Cabrera" Sanchez at 8.07.

62 pitchers with 40+ IP and an ERA of 5+; and 5 of them are Sox (add Aceves and Doubront to the list above).

[Rudy Pemberton]

So, this is it. The final start in what has largely been a very disappointing Red Sox career; a guy who was dubbed as the next Pedro, the best pitcher on the planet, a sure fire superstar on and off the field. From good to ok to bad to terrible, it sure would be nice to see one more good start to remind us of how good he was. Reflections? Expectations for his future, short and long term?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

So, this is it. The final start in what has largely been a very disappointing Red Sox career; a guy who was dubbed as the next Pedro, the best pitcher on the planet, a sure fire superstar on and off the field. From good to ok to bad to terrible, it sure would be nice to see one more good start to remind us of how good he was. Reflections? Expectations for his future, short and long term?

Short term: he's going to get absolutely shelled today.

Long term: back to Japan. He's not a major league pitcher any more. He's never been worth the insane money they bid for him and the contract they gave him. He had a couple of good years (although 2008 was the mother of all fluke years) and he's been dogshit ever since.

The Sox got burned on this guy and they'll probably avoid the established Japanese player market for the foreseeable future. Darvish seems to have worked out for the Rangers, of course, but the Sox blew it big time with Dice K.

[JimD]

Scott Boras might have dubbed him 'the next Pedro', but I don't know anyone else who expected that. I had hoped he'd be a very good and durable number 2 guy, so his contract has been a decided failure in my eyes. Never warmed up to the guy thanks to his early excuse-making about gripping American baseballs and his habit of making fans want to claw their own eyes out while watching him pitch. It was one thing for the mystical Gyroball to be a mirage, but I thought we'd at least be getting a guy who was willing to go after hitters instead of the nibbler he turned out to be. Good riddance.

[bosockboy]

Has to be one of the bigger letdowns we've had after the Beatles welcome he received. That said, he pitched well enough in 2007 ALCS Game 7 to give us the chance to win that game. That alone was worth a ton. But overall, massively disappointing.

[Average Reds]

Yeah, he pitched OK for the first two years, but the single best part of the Daisuke Matsuzaka experience was that it prompted the Yankees to make a panic move and blow $46 million ($26 million posting fee; $20 million contract) on Kei Igawa.

Goodbye, Daisuke..

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Next time the Sox want to sign a guy from the JPL, make sure he can throw the goddamn major league baseballs. Dice K has had problems with that from Day 1. Darvish apparently doesn't.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Darvish's first season hasn't really been that much better than Matsuzaka's was; I think we'll really need to see how he does next year. In most cases, it seems like these guys have done well their first year, and progressively worse. Darvish has had a great September; but his ERA by month is 2.18, 4.50, 4.15, 5,74, 5,59, 2,21. It's not clear yet that he was a great signing, is it?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Darvish's first season hasn't really been that much better than Matsuzaka's was; I think we'll really need to see how he does next year. In most cases, it seems like these guys have done well their first year, and progressively worse. Darvish has had a great September; but his ERA by month is 2.18, 4.50, 4.15, 5,74, 5,59, 2,21. It's not clear yet that he was a great signing, is it?

Darvish's 2012 is better than Dice K's 2007 season, with a lower WHIP, and he's younger to boot. He's going to be a better ML pitcher, of that I'm quite sure.

[Bucknahs Bum Ankle]

Never warmed up to the guy thanks
to his early excuse-making
about gripping American baseballs
and his habit of making fans want
to claw their own eyes out
while watching him pitch

[Nuf Ced]

Kinda fitting he's pitching the last game of an incredibly disappointing season.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I know it sounds insane, but I'm really going to miss Dice-K. For me, the disappointment with him comes not because of the contract (I'm very much a it's-not-my-money guy) but because of the flashes of brilliance he did show along the way. Remember the back to back 1-hit performances right before his elbow blew out? The 201Ks in 204 innings in 2007? The 6.9 h/9 in 2008?

Obviously, there are plenty of people who hated his nibbling, but there was always something I loved about it. He had a creativity in pitching that few pitchers possess and I enjoyed watching that.

[Lose Remerswaal]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if he gets more than 7 outs tonight.

Unless the plan is just to finally let him throw 200 pitches. Maybe Bobby V can destroy him AND Aceves tonight!

[ShaneTrot]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if he gets more than 7 outs tonight.

Unless the plan is just to finally let him throw 200 pitches. Maybe Bobby V can destroy him AND Aceves tonight!

I tend not to hate Sox players but I absolutely loathe DiceK. He is painful to watch, I feel he gave all for Japan in the WBC, injured himself and has stuck it up the Sox a$$.

[YTF]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if he gets more than 7 outs tonight.

Unless the plan is just to finally let him throw 200 pitches. Maybe Bobby V can destroy him AND Aceves tonight!

So whatcha thinkin' Lose? About a 300 pitch effort out of the two? If so I hope Aceves gets the win somewhere around 3:00AM and the MFY are forced to fly to Baltimore for an afternoon game.

[bosockboy]

I tend not to hate Sox players but I absolutely loathe DiceK. He is painful to watch, I feel he gave all for Japan in the WBC, injured himself and has stuck it up the Sox a$$.

Not talked about enough....this seemed to be the turning point. He never recovered after that WBC. The WBC was and is an absolutely awful premise because of what happened to Dice-K.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Well, we have our answer. Good fucking riddance.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

It's hardly like that was unexpected. He's a terrible pitcher now.

[kartvelo]

Yeah, he pitched OK for the first two years, but the single best part of the Daisuke Matsuzaka experience was that it prompted the Yankees to make a panic move and blow $46 million ($26 million posting fee; $20 million contract) on Kei Igawa.

Ha! Yes, those fools are still suffering from that misstep! Ha!

[Sprowl]

Darvish's 2012 is better than Dice K's 2007 season, with a lower WHIP, and he's younger to boot. He's going to be a better ML pitcher, of that I'm quite sure.

Not only is he younger and has better numbers, he has better stuff. Matsuzaka could never throw as hard as Darvish, and 2006 youtubes notwithstanding, Darvish has better offspeed stuff, except for the slurve. If Darvish has been knackered like Matsuzaka, then his stuff won't last either, but I'm thinking it will last a few more years into his contract than it did for DiceK.

It's hardly like that was unexpected. He's a terrible pitcher now.

It's sad to watch. He can't come over the top anymore, so he's just slinging sub-90 shuutos. There's very little left.

I'll always cherish 2007, but it looks like past time for Matsuzaka to go home. I don't see him staying in major-league baseball.

[RedOctober3829]

Good riddance.

[BoSox Rule]

Huge disappointment but he did help the Sox win a title and banners fly forever and all that jazz. As far as expectations go he fell wwwaaayyyyy short, I was expecting Pedro 2002-2003 as far as approach goes, not results obviously.

[Rasputin]

I can't remember the last time I was this happy to see a pitcher go away.

[YTF]

From The Land Of The Rising Sun to the land of the rising line drive............sayonara

Edited by YTF, 03 October 2012 - 09:15 PM.

[Mourning Woodward Jr]

I can't remember the last time I was this happy to see a pitcher go away.

I can, but it was more than a month ago, so I'm kinda hazy on the specifics.

On a more serious note, I can never forget his Fenway debut, and the immediate fanboy man-crush that struck me there and then ... for King Felix. A fitting portent for the Dice-K era, all things considered.

[BoSox Rule]

I can't remember the last time I was this happy to see a pitcher go away.

John Lackey and his elbow smile.

[LogansDad]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if he gets more than 7 outs tonight.

Unless the plan is just to finally let him throw 200 pitches. Maybe Bobby V can destroy him AND Aceves tonight!

So, uh, what do you think the lottery numbers will be tomorrow?

[Rasputin]

John Lackey and his elbow smile.

Didn't go away...

[brs3]

Can we just rename this thread 'Thank You Dice K' when he formally leaves? I have a hard time believing he deserves another thread, ever.

[lexrageorge]

I disagree that the move to pay the posting fee and sign him was a bad move at the time. The team was looking for pitching depth; Schilling had been injured for parts of the prior 2 seasons; Beckett was coming off an even year Beckett season; Lester was diagnosed with cancer; Papelbon had just suffered a shoulder injury of unknown severity. He was a star in Japan, and the opportunity to bring in a seasoned 26 y/o pitcher who wanted to come to the US was too good to pass up. And, as much as Shank and the media disagree, the team treated the posting fee as a one time payment, not something that would impact their payroll in the future.

Had he continued his 2007/08 career arc, he would have been a serviceable-to-decent #3 starter. He was overhyped, but that wasn't his fault; or the team's. He would have been overpaid for that performance, but, as many have said many times, there are no titles for payroll efficiency.

Unfortunately, he was stubborn, a bit of a diva, and injury prone after the WBC debacle. None of that was forseeable the winter of 2006-07. Those issues made this a bad signing. Lackey's was worse in foresight, and may very well turn out to be a lot worse in hindsight. Either way, Dice-K's gone. Time to move on to the next chapter.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

That meeting at the mound was very emotional. Pedey and Salty both looked like they were genuinely sad for Dice-K, and Dice-K looked heartbroken. Personally, I never got the feeling he wasn't giving it his all. I just see him as a tragic figure - maybe 2008 was his version of flying too close to the sun, maybe it was the WBC. Whatever it was, he crashed down to earth and never recovered.

I really thought the TJ surgery would bring him back to his old self, but he never seemed to get the zip back on his fastball (or his confidence, for that matter). But, hey, he still had 41 Ks in 45 innings this year! Unfortunately, he also allowed 43 runs.

Just a giant disappointment for the last four years when it comes down to it. So disappointing.

As he leaves the Sox staff, it's hard to be optimistic for either his future or the Sox staff's future. The starters were an absolute blood bath this season.

[Lose Remerswaal]

7 outs, eh?

And prior to him being pulled, he looked like a man who was extremely unhappy being where he was at the time (on the mound). Just a very sad face.

[ShaneTrot]

I wonder how he is perceived in Japan now after his last few years of injury and failure. He was the Randy Johnson, Steve Carlton, and Pedro Martinez of Japan.
Read his wiki, it's a glorious tribute to the guy with crap like:

Daisuke is nicknamed "The Monster of the Heisei Era" (平成の怪物 heisei no kaibutsu?)

Baseball players who were born in the 1980 academic year (from April 2, 1980 to the following April 1, 1981) have been called the "Matsuzaka Generation" in Japan.

[Harry Hooper]

Daisuke Matsuzaka sets record............................................. for worst ERA by Red Sox starter:

he finished the year with an 8.28 ERA — the highest ever by a Red Sox starter who made at least 10 starts in a season. Indeed, the mark is the 18th highest in major league history by a pitcher making 10 or more starts.

[PaulinMyrBch]

Well if this year proved anything, its that Japanese pitchers have the ability to suck regardless of what languages their manager speaks.

[dynomite]

That meeting at the mound was very emotional. Pedey and Salty both looked like they were genuinely sad for Dice-K, and Dice-K looked heartbroken.

Yeah. For everything else that was wrong with Dice-K over the last few years (at various times his control, velocity, and most of all his health) his attitude was not on the list. You could tell how much he wanted to succeed, the toll that repeated failure was taking on him. Whether his desire to pitch well was borne of sheer prideful ambition (to hang on to ever-fickle baseball talent, to reclaim his lost sense of self), a sense of fiduciary responsibility to honor his salary, or merely to contribute to a team in desperate need of reliable starting pitching, it was obvious Dice-K wanted to pitch well in his return.

He didn't. A fitting end to a downright disaster of a season.

[Bergs]

That meeting at the mound was very emotional. Pedey and Salty both looked like they were genuinely sad for Dice-K, and Dice-K looked heartbroken.

Here's the video:

http://boston.redsox...lb_1&mode=video

[dynomite]

Ugh. Tough to watch. I know these guys are millionares and they're playing a kids game for a living, but that's among the saddest moments I've seen of someone in a Red Sox uniform.

Dice-K looks like he's in tears, and Pedey, Salty and Iglesias are actively consoling him.

[RoDaddy]

I really thought the TJ surgery would bring him back to his old self, but he never seemed to get the zip back on his fastball (or his confidence, for that matter).

Actually, I remember him throwing 93/94 with movement for a while this year, and was excited he'd be a key contributor to what then looked like a possible playoff team. But the stuff went downhill from there. At his best, his ability to throw and (sometimes) control many pitches reminded me of Luis Tiant, a pretty impressive feat

Edited by RoDaddy, 04 October 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[LogansDad]

Ugh. Tough to watch. I know these guys are millionares and they're playing a kids game for a living, but that's among the saddest moments I've seen of someone in a Red Sox uniform.

Dice-K looks like he's in tears, and Pedey, Salty and Iglesias are actively consoling him.

Yeah, watching this last night I almost felt bad being happy that he wouldn't be pitching for the Sox anymore. Like many here, I never disliked the guy for being him, but he became very difficult to watch pitch, although brilliant at times. In the end, he helped bring another World Series trophy to Boston, and I am grateful for that, but his time here has to be up.

Maybe he can get a job in the NL West, where fly balls go to die, and be an effective pitcher again, but I don't think he or us can ever be confident with him in the AL East again.