2134 replies to this topic

[ilol@u]

I love these guys too, but let's face it....they haven't come through since 2008 and have layed eggs in some seriously big games. In some cases, these games could have led to a championship (Lakers game 7) or led to the finals ( this year). Something needs to change.

No way. We had KG injured in 09. Perkins injury in Game 7 in the Finals. Rondo injury last year. And half of our team dead this year. Just terrible luck.

[radsoxfan]

Really? I mean their heart and soul players have been playing these games.

Replace Dooling, Pietrus, and Hollins with Bradley, Green, and Wilcox and this team has a legit shot at a title.

I mean, every team deals with injuries, but role players and the bench do matter.

[bball831]

This is true. I'm comfortable with loving the group while also recognizing that they've failed quite a lot. And that is because my love for the team is not tied to the number of rings they got.

KG's knee, otherwise it's at least 1 more title. Lot of their "failures" have come because they were beat up and beat down.

[RGREELEY33]

I love these guys too, but let's face it....they haven't come through since 2008 and have layed eggs in some seriously big games. In some cases, these games could have led to a championship (Lakers game 7) or led to the finals ( this year). Something needs to change.

Like their starting center not getting hurt against a team with 3 seven footers in 2010 and 2 of their top bench guys going out with heart surgeries and their starting 2 and defensive stopper getting hurt in the playoffs?

[Mystic Merlin]

I mean, they've played in 93 playoff games in five years. Two or three rings were possible. But I see that fact as a footnote. They arguably overachieved in the face of adversity that would kill most teams, at various points. I don't think that should be overlooked either.

EDIT - I kind of feel like they get demerits for outpacing expectations, which were tempered because of a slew of injuries over the years.

Edited by Mystic Merlin, 09 June 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[The Belly Itcher]

This is true. I'm comfortable with loving the group while also recognizing that they've failed quite a lot. And that is because my love for the team is not tied to the number of rings they got.

I hear you. My love for them is not tied to rings, but my desire to stave off ulcers and mental distress is tied to realism.

[Nick Kaufman]

This year's run was above and beyond against all kinds of adversity. No one can complain about anything.

[RGREELEY33]

Chris Bosh just said he has been playing for championships since he was 10 years old in little league

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

Really? I mean their heart and soul players have been playing these games.

Over the course of the ECF, Marquis Daniels, Ryan Hollins, and Keyon Dooling got meaningful minutes. They weren't even in the regular season rotation.

[Ed Hillel]

No way. We had KG injured in 09. Perkins injury in Game 7 in the Finals. Rondo injury last year. And half of our team dead this year. Just terrible luck.

KG was not the same guy at all in 2010, either. With this KG, we win in 2010 in 5 games.

[The Belly Itcher]

God, we're a fucking spoiled city. Jesus Christ.

What are you talking about?

[Section15Box113]

I know it's probably been said a million time, but I can't stand these 8:30 games.

Well, there's a silver lining. Game 1 in OKC is at 9:00. The wait would have been insufferable.

[The Belly Itcher]

Well, there's a silver lining. Game 1 in OKC is at 9:00. The wait would have been insufferable.

Oh I am not watching these games. No worries there.

[Turrable]

What are you talking about?

It just bugs me when people complain about how our championship teams didn't win enough championships. I didn't mean it to sound so harsh, my bad.

[The Belly Itcher]

Over the course of the ECF, Marquis Daniels, Ryan Hollins, and Keyon Dooling got meaningful minutes. They weren't even in the regular season rotation.

Dude, Brian Scalabrine played the second half against the Lakers in game 7 of the NBA finals.

[Soxy Brown]

If someone had told me before the game that this outcome would rest on Chris Bosh's three point shooting, I would've gladly taken those odds. Sports are fucking weird like that. I can't even be pissed off about it, really. It's more bizarre than anything. I just scrolled through his game logs and, unless I missed something, this is the first time Bosh has ever hit more than 2 three-pointers in a game.

[Hee-Seop's Fable]

I bet he does decline.

Bass on a 1 year 4M deal is great for the Celtics. But a long term deal anything more than 3/12 probably isn't. He is a nice rotation player, but unfortunately he's not that good.

No doubt there are better power forwards out there, but ones that fit with Rondo, are thoroughly professional, and aren't prohibitively expensive, I'm not so sure.

[Turrable]

Also, did you know LebronJamesPenis' penis has a catchphrase? TWOOOOOOOOOOOO MINUTES!

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

Dude, Brian Scalabrine played the second half against the Lakers in game 7 of the NBA finals.

Dude, Ryan Hollins can't hold Brian Scalabrine's jock.

Regardless, if you really believe that injuries to this team haven't seriously affected their run, then we'll just disagree. And move on.

[The Belly Itcher]

It just bugs me when people complain about how our championship teams didn't win enough championships. I didn't mean it to sound so harsh, my bad.

Dude, we don't have a championship team. We had one in 2008.

[radsoxfan]

No doubt there are better power forwards out there, but ones that fit with Rondo, are thoroughly professional, and aren't prohibitively expensive, I'm not so sure.

Agreed. Pay him as our 5th-7th best player, then I'm happy with that.

If it takes a 4/28 contract to keep him, no thanks.

[McBride11]

DoTB post a few pages back was spot on. Reason we lost? Nope. But it didnt help. A little consistency is all we ask (isnt that the biggest gripe with MLB strike zones?)

And for Rondo not shaking hands, its contrived anyway to make 6yo appreciate sportsmanship. Where today you all get a ribbon anyway. Rondo and KG bleed green (and gets paid a lot to do so) so i could care less if they walk off. These uber competitive ppl didnt get there by being nice.




(null)

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

If someone had told me before the game that this outcome would rest on Chris Bosh's three point shooting, I would've gladly taken those odds. Sports are fucking weird like that. I can't even be pissed off about it, really. It's more bizarre than anything. I just scrolled through his game logs and, unless I missed something, this is the first time Bosh has ever hit more than 2 three-pointers in a game.

They showed that graphic in the game. First time he has had 3 3 pointers in a game in his career.

[The Belly Itcher]

Dude, Ryan Hollins can't hold Brian Scalabrine's jock.

Regardless, if you really believe that injuries to this team haven't seriously affected their run, then we'll just disagree. And move on.

Yeah, right. Scalabrine was a scrub, yet because he was deemed a gritty, hard working local boy by some fans, they accepted his brand of shitty basketball. AND HE PLAYED IN GAME 7....SECOND HALF.... AGAINST THE LAKERS!

Hollins would rain on Scalabrine. He was and is a shlub.

Edited by The Belly Itcher, 09 June 2012 - 11:26 PM.

[Mystic Merlin]

Wade looks ridiculous.

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

1. Boston is spoiled. The past 11+ years has produced championship riches which should never, ever be expected by sports fans in any city (especially NY, fuck those front-running douchecunts)

2. This C's squad is special no doubt. Three superstars who not only said but did all the right things. If we cannot celebrate that, I don't know what to say. They had some really shit luck too. As was mentioned earlier, they had at least one more ring in them had it not been for injuries

3. I will watch OKC/Miami. This is Durant's moment and I don't expect the NBA to disappoint. There is a narrative in a superstar never being able to get over the hump and while I think its unfortunate on some levels, LeBron is the poster boy for this in the NBA. Don't expect him to get the calls or avoid the non-calls he got during this series.

4. Bring back KG and Ray. If we are too sentimental, so be it. Given the talent out there via free agency or the draft, its the best (and most fan-friendly) alternative.

5. I love the Boston Celtics

[The Belly Itcher]

1. Boston is spoiled. The past 11+ years has produced championship riches which should never, ever be expected by sports fans in any city (especially NY, fuck those front-running douchecunts)

When a team gets to the same point every season since 2008-- a pivotal game against another top 5 team in the playoffs-- and you can't pull out a win, then I think it's reasonable to question if we're missing something. It's not "being spoiled", it's a matter of looking at outcomes. That's four seasons in a row.If I flip a coin and get heads 4 times....there's a 6.25% chance of that happening if the coin is balanced. Well, maybe it ain't balanced.

Edited by The Belly Itcher, 09 June 2012 - 11:33 PM.

[Turrable]

Dude, we don't have a championship team. We had one in 2008.

And I have a hard time understanding why some people don't consider that to be good enough. I'm as bitter about '09 and '10 as anyone, but mainly because of injuries and bad luck.

[Mystic Merlin]

When a team gets to the same point every season since 2008-- a pivotal game against another top 5 team in the playoffs-- and you can't pull out a win, then I think it's reasonable to question if we're missing something. It's not "being spoiled", it's looking at the outcome and asking whether we're missing something.

I think it's a combination just losing close games teams of comparable quality and not having the horses to do it because of injury or a substandard bench. I don't see how 'lack of health' isn't what they primarily 'missed'.

And they unfortunately play in a league where if your horses aren't healthy, you might be in trouble. They don't have the salary flexibility to add the kind of pieces that wouldn't compensated for those health problems. And when they DID have guys who did that to an extent (Green, Bradley), they got hurt, too. At a certain point, shit happens/it is what it is. Even if you can identify what is 'missing', it doesn't mean that circumstances will allow that deficiency to be remediated, particularly if the cause of that deficiency was out of your hands.

[ilol@u]

When a team gets to the same point every season since 2008-- a pivotal game against another top 5 team in the playoffs-- and you can't pull out a win, then I think it's reasonable to question if we're missing something. It's not "being spoiled", it's looking at the outcome and asking whether we're missing something. That's four seasons in a row. If I flip a coin and get heads 4 times....there's a 6.25% chance of that happening if the coin is balanced. Maybe it ain't balanced.

That same point is always going DEEP into the playoffs and getting derailed by injuries. There is literally nothing the Celtics can do to prevent/predict that. They had a solid bench but when your role players get injured, what can you do?

[mandro ramtinez]

Hollins is not even close to as skilled as Scalabrine. That's not debatable.

[The Belly Itcher]

And I have a hard time understanding why some people don't consider that to be good enough. I'm as bitter about '09 and '10 as anyone, but mainly because of injuries and bad luck.

Again, it would be one thing if we missed the playoffs, or were bounced in the first or second round. But the losses are in big games and, let's face it, the Cs laid huge eggs, which almost make no sense in the context of their play up until that point.

[Mystic Merlin]

Again, it would be one thing if we missed the playoffs, or were bounced in the first or second round. But the losses are in big games and, let's face it, the Cs laid huge eggs, which almost make no sense in the context of their play up until that point.

This is what I'm talking about, though. You're arguing that a less successful playoff run/season under identical circumstances would be preferable.

That is completely illogical to me.

Let me clarify - emotionally, that makes sense, but once you get past that, it's utterly ridiculous, IMO.

Edited by Mystic Merlin, 09 June 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[The Belly Itcher]

Hollins is not even close to as skilled as Scalabrine. That's not debatable.

Scal sucked. I just want to hear you say it. I can take any other 10-12 player from most teams in the NBA, trump up his work ethic, and he'll be as successful as Scal was with his limited role on the Cs. He was a minus. Plus he was a classless dink, talking trash after the 2008 win as if he played any role.

[deconstruction]

When a team gets to the same point every season since 2008-- a pivotal game against another top 5 team in the playoffs-- and you can't pull out a win, then I think it's reasonable to question if we're missing something. It's not "being spoiled", it's a matter of looking at outcomes. That's four seasons in a row.If I flip a coin and get heads 4 times....there's a 6.25% chance of that happening if the coin is balanced. Well, maybe it ain't balanced.

What? They've made two conference finals game 7s and and a NBA Finals game 7 in those years. To even get to these points takes at least 11 playoff wins. They have been an elite team like no other over the last five years, both during the regular season and playoffs. Filp a coin for those games.

[mandro ramtinez]

Again, it would be one thing if we missed the playoffs, or were bounced in the first or second round. But the losses are in big games and, let's face it, the Cs laid huge eggs, which almost make no sense in the context of their play up until that point.

Game 7 2010 made complete sense in the context of that season. Their offense was not outstanding that year and ground to a halt in the the fourth. That team had a hard time holding fourth quarter leads. Yet they were misses on Artest and Fisher threes away from a title. Obviously that's not a championship team but that is a full blown, championship caliber team.

[SemperFidelisSox]

I'll be the first to defend this group because of what the injuries have kept them from accomplishing these past four years, but in two of those pivotal games - Game 7 vs LA and tonight - the C's had pretty comfortable halftime/3rd quarter leads and faded in the 4th.

[The Belly Itcher]

This is what I'm talking about, though. You're arguing that a less successful playoff run/season under identical circumstances would be preferable.

No, that's not what I am arguing at all.

[mandro ramtinez]

Scal sucked. I just want to hear you say it. I can take any other 10-12 player from most teams in the NBA, trump up his work ethic, and he'll be as successful as Scal was with his limited role on the Cs. He was a minus. Plus he was a classless dink, talking trash after the 2008 win as if he played any role.

Scal is not a good NBA player but he is better than Hollins. Scal was joking around in 08, making light of the fact that he was a guy in a suit during the finals, if you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.

[McBride11]

Don't forget, Scal had the classic Irish look, which always improves a Celtic players success.

(null)

[Turrable]

I would look at it the other way, and say that the fact that Boston has played in so many huge games is indicative of great success. There are 15 teams in the conference. 4 of the last 5 years, Boston has made the conference finals. 2 of the last 5, it has won. They've been a consistently great team; in fact, moreso than any other Boston team.

[Mystic Merlin]

I'll be the first to defend this group because of what the injuries have kept them from accomplishing these past four years, but in two of those pivotal games - Game 7 vs LA and tonight - the C's had pretty comfortable halftime/3rd quarter leads and faded in the 4th.

Sure.

But sometimes our being pattern-seeking mammals leads us to jump to conclusions that are unwarranted. So they blew leads in two massive and winnable games over that period. Against two of the top 2-3 teams in the league. I don't know what to glean from that, in all honesty. That's an unsatisfying response, but what IS the proper response? That they didn't have what it takes? I don't think that could be the answer, given the mountain of countervailing evidence.

[The Belly Itcher]

What? They've made two conference finals game 7s and and a NBA Finals game 7 in those years. To even get to these points takes at least 11 playoff wins. They have been an elite team like no other over the last five years, both during the regular season and playoffs. Filp a coin for those games.

Right, and the coin turned up loss each time. Let's not forget the other games that led up to it to these losing coin flips. For example, the atrocious game 6 at the garden. So that's another coin flip that turned up loss.

[deconstruction]

Right, and the coin turned up loss each time. Let's not forget the other games that led up to it to these losing coin flips. For example, the atrocious game 6 at the garden. So that's another coin flip that turned up loss.

KEEP FLIPPING

[Hee-Seop's Fable]

Agreed. Pay him as our 5th-7th best player, then I'm happy with that.

If it takes a 4/28 contract to keep him, no thanks.

Exactly.

[The Belly Itcher]

Sure.

But sometimes our being pattern-seeking mammals leads us to jump to conclusions that are unwarranted. So they blew leads in two massive and winnable games over that period. Against two of the top 2-3 teams in the league. I don't know what to glean from that, in all honesty. That's an unsatisfying response, but what IS the proper response? That they didn't have what it takes? I don't think that could be the answer, given the mountain of countervailing evidence.

I think you mean "pattern interpreting". And often times our pattern interpreting neural machinery is pretty goddamned good at what it does!

[Turrable]

But they got a chance to flip the coin, which is more than you can say for pretty much every team in the league

[mandro ramtinez]

Paul Flannery argued today that this five year Celtics run will improve with age and look better after a few years have passed. After the years of Brett Szabo, Marty Conlon, the Pitino disaster and the early 2000s teams that weren't good enough, having a bonafide, tough, committed championship contender has been a fantastic gift and I feel lucky to have been able to enjoy it.

[The Belly Itcher]

Honestly, I wouldn't trade in the past 4 years, but boy is it disappointing.

[Mystic Merlin]

I think you mean "pattern interpreting". And often times our pattern interpreting neural machinery is pretty goddamned good at what it does!

Not as much as we like to think.

How about this hypo - Delonte hits his open three in '08, Artest misses his in '10. What does that mean? To what degree are we dealing with ridiculously close margins that are subject to equally ridiculous conclusions based on noise-ridden results? And, yes, this degrades their championship as much as it diminishes their failures.

I think the larger body of work, the 93 games, speak much larger volumes than a select 4-5% of that sample.