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The Outfielders


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#1 dbn

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:37 PM

Considering who they've been playing out there, the outfield production has been pretty good, at least at the corners. They have the 4th best OPS in the AL at LF, and 3rd best at RF. CF has been a problem, ranking 12th (although only 0.001 out of a tie for 11th!!!) of the 14 AL teams.

The good have included Ross (0.883 OPS in 133 ABs), Nava (0.938 in 82 ABs), Sweeney (0.762 in 149 ABs) and Podsednik (0.942 in 31 ABs). Not so good have been McDonald (0.663 in 58 ABs) and Byrd (0.612 in 99 ABs), as well as a handful of ABs by Lin, and Repko. Gonzalez has hit about as "well" in RF (0.715 OPS in 35 ABs) as at 1B (0.723 in 189).

Overall, given the injuries, I'm pleased with the outfield production so far. That said, I'm worried going forward for the following reasons. Ross is hurt. Sweeney's OPS by month: Apr - 0.961, May - 0.599, June - 0.600. It is metaphysically impossible for Posednik to continue to hit that well. I'm actually pretty bullish on Nava, but don't expect him to continue at a 0.938 OPS pace.

This thread may overlap in scope with other existing threads, particularly the McDonald thread, but since that one asks a specific question and there are no other threads on the first page of the main board about Red Sox outfielders (other than Adrian) currently on the 40 man, I thought a thread for general discussion of the outfield may be useful. So, discuss away.

Some relevant questions:

What are your expectations for the current group going forward?

When will Ellsbury and Crawford come back? Has anyone an update?

What should the outfield look like when J.E. and/or C.C. return? What should it look like right now? What does your crystal ball tell you the starting outfield will be when the Red Sox open the divisional series in Cleveland against Derek Lowe?

Does it matter that the pecking order-weighted outfield (when healthy) is so LHH heavy? For reference, I'd put the pecking order something like: Ellsbury (L), Crawford (L), Sweeney (L), Ross ®, Kalish (L), Nava (S), McDonald ®, Posednik (L), Byrd ®, and then a muddle of Anderson (L), Lin ®, and Repko ®.

Did that guy who tried to catch Salty's game tying 2 run homer in the 9th the other night using his hat and almost interfered with the ball look like a jerk or what?

#2 SoxScout


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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:43 PM

When will Ellsbury and Crawford come back? Has anyone an update?


The Red Sox's outfield has been in flux for a majority of the season with Jacoby Ellsbury and Carl Crawford sidelined with injuries, but the pair is nearing a return to the field.

Crawford, who has a sprained UCL in his left elbow, has progressed to taking batting practice. He's not been cleared to throw, but that's next in his recovery process.

"Probably the end of this week is what the plan was," said manager Bobby Valentine.

Ellsbury, though, is playing catch and has progressed to 40 throws. Out since April 13 with a separated right shoulder, Ellsbury has made strides in recent weeks.

"He's hitting off the tee, he's running the bases. It will be a normal progression barring any setbacks," Valentine said, "but he's feeling great. Eventually we'll have him do real activities, [including] batting practice."

http://boston.redsox...ok_bos&c_id=bos

#3 dbn

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:48 PM

http://boston.redsox...ok_bos&c_id=bos


Thanks.

I've seen blurbs like the one linked to, but I don't exactly know how to turn that information into an estimate of "return to ML action" timetable. Of course, recent history has shown us that such estimates are not very robust...

#4 ItOnceWasMyLife

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:13 PM

Squeeze Kalish into the discussion somewhere.

#5 Eric Van


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Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:30 PM

A guess:

-- Byrd DFA Saturday to make room for Dice-K.
-- Kalish up for Posednik in a week or less, and takes over starting CF vs. RHP. Vs. LHP, tonight's lineup.
-- Ross off the DL, sayonara Darnell. Ross becomes the platoon partner for Kalish.

-- A very tough decision as whom to send down among Kalish, WMB.and Nava when Ellsbury comes back. Will very much depend on how Kalish does and how WMB fares in the interim.

-- Another tough decision to trim that group of three to one for Crawford, although obviously right now Nava has the inside track. But Kalish, if he really hits, might make a better case for staking a RF regular claim than Nava, because of defense.

Imagine if Nava gets banished to AAA while sporting better numbers than Crawford ends up putting up ... for a bit more money.

#6 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:30 AM

I expect Kalish to continue playing in Pawtucket when his rehab ends. And to be fair, that's probably the best place for him, after basically a year away from game action. A Mauro Gomez DFA -- rather than disturbing the post-DiceK outfield -- is the obvious countermove to me.

Podsednik and Nava are unlikely to continue producing at their current levels of dominance, but I don't think Kalish is likely to supplant either one until the pixie dust runs out. The top three guys could warrant that, but Kalish is still young, unknown to BobbyV, and optionable.

#7 TheoShmeo


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:23 AM

A guess:

-- Byrd DFA Saturday to make room for Dice-K.
-- Kalish up for Posednik in a week or less, and takes over starting CF vs. RHP. Vs. LHP, tonight's lineup.
-- Ross off the DL, sayonara Darnell. Ross becomes the platoon partner for Kalish.

-- A very tough decision as whom to send down among Kalish, WMB.and Nava when Ellsbury comes back. Will very much depend on how Kalish does and how WMB fares in the interim.

-- Another tough decision to trim that group of three to one for Crawford, although obviously right now Nava has the inside track. But Kalish, if he really hits, might make a better case for staking a RF regular claim than Nava, because of defense.

Imagine if Nava gets banished to AAA while sporting better numbers than Crawford ends up putting up ... for a bit more money.

I think this is the pink elephant in the room.

Crawford is obviously going to get his starting job in LF back when he's ready to return, as is Ellsbury in CF.

Given how well Nava, Podsednik (very SSS, to be sure) , Sweeney and Ross (when healthy) have performed, if Crawford gets off to a another slow start, the pressure on him, both internal and external, is going to be extreme. That would also put a lot of focus on Bobby. "Are you playing Carl because of the contract? Why not go back to Nava?"

Might the Sox use Nava, Sweeney or Ross as trade chips?

#8 bosockboy


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:13 AM

Best case scenario Crawford performs well for 3 months and allows us to move him this offseason....but I'm terrified he'll be awful and we will miss Nava. Nava should stay as the 5th OF regardless....he's imminently more valuable than Byrd, McDonald or Podsednik.

#9 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:28 AM

Best case scenario Crawford performs well for 3 months and allows us to move him this offseason....but I'm terrified he'll be awful and we will miss Nava. Nava should stay as the 5th OF regardless....he's imminently more valuable than Byrd, McDonald or Podsednik.


No, the best case scenario is that Crawford performs well for 3 months plus at least the next two years -- there's way too many years, too great a risk of TJS, and far too much money remaining on his contract for any GM out there to take him.

Nava is certainly imminently more valuable than Byrd, McDonald, or Podsednik. But I'm not sure he's eminently more valuable when (if) the Sox have all their outfielders healthy. He's been getting a chance to hide his lousy defense in the shadow of the Green Monster, after all. And it's uncertain how much playing everyday keeps his batting eye and timing where it needs to be.

But, for the moment, his bat allows the Sox to take it really slow with Crawford's elbow and Ross's foot, without the team feeling too much pain.

#10 JMDurron

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:32 AM

I share the OP's concern about the OF production regressing. I am doubly concerned that the recovery/arrival of any combination of Crawford, Ellsbury, and Kalish won't actually offset the expected regression from Podsednik and Nava, because 2 of those 3 haven't faced MLB pitchers in so long that I think we have to expect a significant degree of rust and initial suckage, plus Kalish is still not a known quantity in terms of his MLB offensive production level.

As far as I can see it, the best case scenario involves Ross coming back from the DL before Nava/Podsednik completely regress, with those two covering for Ross' expected rust period, followed by Ross carrying the OF production load while the first of Crawford/Ellsbury come back and suck offensively for a couple weeks as they get the rust off. Finally, the second of Crawford/Ellsbury returns while the first of them, plus hopefully Nava and the intended Ross/Sweeney platoon covers for that second arrival's "suck from rust" period. Kalish being able to step in and produce concurrently with Ross' return would be awesome, but I feel that hoping for Nava to maintain his production until the reinforcements arrive is more realistic than expecting Kalish to come up and match Nava's productivity.

It's not just a matter of having some semblance of production until the injured players heal, it's covering that healing period AND the initial rust once those players get back to Boston. My concern is that the entire crew, for varying reasons (regression from Nava/Pods, Kalish adjusting to MLB pitching, Ross/Crawford/Ellsbury being rusty), will have an overlapping period of poor performance. That poor scenario looks fairly likely to me, with the main potential points of hope being Nava's continued production, and Ross being able to come back and produce well before Crawford/Ellsbury return, if they return.

#11 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:49 AM

This will likely work itself out by the time a decision needs to be made. Ellsbury and Crawford are still weeks away it seems, and both Podsednick and Nava will come down to Earth sooner rather than later. I think Nava can be a productive bat even after he cools off, as he has a patient approach but Podsednick is going to fall off a cliff at some point.

What it will come down to is an outfield of Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross and Sweeney with a choice between Nava, McDonald, Byrd and Podsednick. Nava is the weakest defender of the bunch but will likely be the best bat even after he regresses toward his true talent level. I'd like to see them use him as the 5th outfielder since the major league roster already has center field covered by Ellsbury, Ross and Sweeney. Nava provides another bat on the bench for Bobby V to use late in games.

Of course, Nava can be optioned while the other three need to be DFA'd and this team likes to keep control of as many assets as it can, so I imagine Nava will get demoted at some point to maintain control of one of the other three. I'm guessing McDonald will end up the 5th outfielder despite his bat being so weak.

Edit: And I agree that the best place for Kalish is Pawtucket until there's a starting job waiting for him. Being a 4th or 5th outfielder isn't good for his development and he's not displacing the Ross/Sweeney duo in right field. If Podsednick falls off a cliff tomorrow and there's a need in center, give the kid some time until Ellsbury is ready, but keep him swinging the bat in game action every day until it's time for him to take over in right next year. Ross is on a one year deal and Sweeney has one year of arb left, so I imagine the outfield next year is going to be Crawford, Ellsbury, Sweeney and Kalish with Sweeney acting as more of a general 4th outfielder than a platoon partner, since both he and Kalish are left handed.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 08 June 2012 - 09:53 AM.


#12 reggiecleveland


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:51 AM

-- A very tough decision as whom to send down among Kalish, WMB.and Nava when Ellsbury comes back. Will very much depend on how Kalish does and how WMB fares in the interim.


So your contnention is that the performance of the players will be a determining factor in roster construction?

#13 luckysox


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:02 AM

It seems clear to me that Crawford is still an "if" in terms of being back this season. He's just starting to throw, and I think it is still a possibility that he might have pain in the elbow once he does start throwing. I think we may be putting his cart in front of his horse. I hope I'm wrong, but throwing with a UCL injury seems like a HUGE hurdle, one he has not cleared yet.

If he doesn't come back but Ellsbury does, I think Nava is the left fielder vs. righties, DMac or Byrd (whoever stays after Saturday) is vs. lefties, and Sweeney and Ross (assuming Ross comes back, too) are the platoon in right as originally planned. I mean, is it at least possible that Nava is as good a hitter as we are seeing right now? He's not really regressing at all yet. Isn't it a possibility that the guy is as good a hitter at this level as he has been at every other level?

#14 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:10 AM

I mean, is it at least possible that Nava is as good a hitter as we are seeing right now? He's not really regressing at all yet. Isn't it a possibility that the guy is as good a hitter at this level as he has been at every other level?


A .951 OPS hitter? No, that's very unlikely. His .445 OBP is also very unlikely to continue. If that's how good a hitter he is, he's one of the best hitters in all of baseball. His power (.506) slugging is likely to drop a bit, as is his OBP. I could certainly see him as a .380-ish OBP, 425-ish SLG kind of hitter, though (as a best case scenario). Maybe I'm seriously underrating him, but I just don't see much more than that over the long haul.

In short, I can see him as a starting left fielder for quite a few teams in the majors.

#15 Pumpsie


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:32 AM

Am I the only one hoping that Crawford doesn't get back until September at the earliest? To lose Nava or Kalish because of Crawford would just compound the disaster that this signing apparently was.

#16 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:41 AM

Am I the only one hoping that Crawford doesn't get back until September at the earliest? To lose Nava or Kalish because of Crawford would just compound the disaster that this signing apparently was.


Nava is certainly playing very well, but the guy was taken off the 40 man roster not all that long ago before his renaissance, so the confidence that he'll continue to perform like he has is not all that high for me. He is a good story and I'm thrilled he's been able to contribute to the team this year, but Crawford's career lines dwarf his.

Crawford's had one bad year and suddenly he's a useless bum and we should keep Daniel Nava over him? That makes little sense to me. And there's zero chance Kalish would be the one to lose a spot to Crawford if they really see him as the RFer of the future.

Nava's BABIP is .353. As a right handed batter (which is where he does all his damage as he's terrible hitting lefty this year) his BABIP is .426. That won't continue. I'm glad to have him here while Crawford recovers as he's played well, but there's little doubt in my mind who's the better overall player.

#17 trekfan55


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:01 AM

There are 2 40 man roster moves upcoming:

1. DiceK is on the 60 day DL so they need to move someone off the 40man for tomorrow.
2. When Kalish's rehab is done they also need to make a move.

So Byrd should be the odd man out in at least one of them, with maybe Mauro Gomez being the other.

Also, once (and if) the OFs start returning it will become very difficult to keep WMB around.

#18 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:12 AM

The guy I think is going to fall of a cliff (and he already is) is Sweeney. I know he's hitting more line drives, but his .387 BABIP is more than 50 points higher than his career average, and his 4 to 1 K to BB ratio is not promising.

#19 kieckeredinthehead

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:48 PM

Nava's BABIP is .353. As a right handed batter (which is where he does all his damage as he's terrible hitting lefty this year) his BABIP is .426. That won't continue. I'm glad to have him here while Crawford recovers as he's played well, but there's little doubt in my mind who's the better overall player.


You have that backwards - Nava has a 1037 OPS as a lefty this year, and 744 as a righty.

The guy I think is going to fall of a cliff (and he already is) is Sweeney. I know he's hitting more line drives, but his .387 BABIP is more than 50 points higher than his career average, and his 4 to 1 K to BB ratio is not promising.


Sweeney has been seeing as many pitches this year as he has in the past, he's just not getting to ball four. I suspect that Madagan has been working with him to be more aggressive when he gets a pitch to hit, and it took a while for the league to adjust. Like, pitchers knew that Sweeney was a guy raised in the Oakland system to take a walk, and so if they fell behind in the count they'd pump pitches in the strike zone to make him fall behind. Then this year he started driving those pitches, and so the league is adjusting. I also think his recent regression is being forced to hit more against lefties because Ross is out.

#20 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 01:11 PM

You have that backwards - Nava has a 1037 OPS as a lefty this year, and 744 as a righty.


Oops, you're right. Although his OPS is a RHB is actually .698.

#21 kieckeredinthehead

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 01:23 PM

Oops, you're right. Although his OPS is a RHB is actually .698.


b-ref classified one of Nava's at-bats as being a LHB against a LHP (he got a single); ESPN and Fangraphs both lump that at-bat as being a RHB. It would be interesting to know if Nava really did hit lefty against a LHP, but I don't remember that happening?

#22 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 01:29 PM

I saw that too and thought it strange.

#23 JakeRae


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 03:10 PM

Kalish should be the starting CF by the time his rehab stint ends (if not even sooner). He hit .252/.305/.405 in his first taste of MLB as a 22 year old. He is currently 24 and has a career minor league line of .282/.371/.435. (His performance was pretty consistent across levels as he moved up the ladder so I'm not going to break it down further.) It is worth noting that his walk rates dipped in his initial stint in AAA and MLB and his K rates spiked a bit. However, he's shown a trend of mid-season promotions with this happening followed by adjustment to both increase his walk rate and decrease his K rate the subsequent year at the same level. Read: it is likely that he will walk more and strike out less in MLB this year than he did in 2010 (I'm pretty much ignoring 2011 as a season lost to injury. It is worth noting that this pattern did not manifest in his repetition of AAA unlike A+, despite a move from Lancaster to Salem, and AA. I don't think it's evident that Kalish was ever really healthy in 2011 though and his SSS performance in his rehab stint seems to back that up.)

Kalish could've easily started 2011 in the majors in a different organization (he would've if the alternatives had been our current CF options). I see no reason why his lost year should impact that. If anything, we can expect increased power from him due to age factors despite the lost season.

Byrd is currently hitting .273/.288/.323 (Boston line. The combined line is substantially worse.) and has clearly fallen out of favor in Boston.
Podsednik is currently destroying the ball but is unlikely to continue that. His career line is .280/.340/.382.
McDonald's career is virtually the same as Kalish's rookie line as a 22 year old but with more platooning and inferior defense.

If I'm Cherrington, I try to pass Byrd through waivers to get him to AAA, which likely works considering his contract and general awfulness. That makes space for Matsuzaka. With Byrd in AAA, you can afford to shop Podsednik to a team that needs CF help and open up roster space for Kalish. Kalish is likely the better player out of he and Pods and this team can't afford to shepherd depth at the expense of active roster talent while they sit in last place in a very tightly competitive division.

#24 dbn

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:01 PM

I'm with you on Kalish. He has so much more upside than any outfielder currently on the 25 man roster.

If I'm Cherrington, I try to pass Byrd through waivers to get him to AAA, which likely works considering his contract and general awfulness. That makes space for Matsuzaka. With Byrd in AAA, you can afford to shop Podsednik to a team that needs CF help and open up roster space for Kalish. Kalish is likely the better player out of he and Pods and this team can't afford to shepherd depth at the expense of active roster talent while they sit in last place in a very tightly competitive division.


Part of me would like to see Podsednik pass waivers and be stashed in AAA as he could, in principle, be a useful PR in September+, while I don't see any use for Byrd.

On another note, a lot of me wants McDonald to be good enough to warrant the 5th outfielder spot, because I like him and he seems to be a good clubhouse guy. Sadly, he just isn't a good enough baseball player.

#25 mauidano


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:19 PM

Nava isn't going anywhere. CC is still a long ways off. Probably after the All-Star break. Ellsbury probably right at that time too. Remember both still will have to do rehab games for a bit. Nava has been lights out good even the defense. Who says the "pixie dust" has to run out? For God's sake, in the past 30 days, only Konerko has a better OPS in the AL. Byrd will be expendable shortly. When Ross gets back, it'll be Pods and then D-Mac who ship out. Like starting pitching you can't have enough outfield depth. As for Nava; "The Kid Stays in The Picture". There rest of them? Meh.

#26 Pumpsie


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:04 PM

Not a big fan of Crawford's. Career .773 OPS and 105 OPS+ and paid as if he's really someone else. He'll probably step up from his lousy 2011 but he's probably never going to repeat his career year of 2010 ever again. And I don't see him coming back now, after his lousy 2010 and being out with an injury this season, and doing well. I think he's going to struggle, and, possibly be even worse than last season. The problem is that both Nava and/or Kalish is probably going to give you better production in August than CC will. And THAT'S going to be an issue as every game gains in importance going down the stretch. Hard to see CC's return being a good one with the pressure really on him to perform. He's going to have to start pretty hot right out of the box or it could get ugly for both him and the team. Not a great situation.

#27 martybarrettoverdrive

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:07 PM

Pete Abraham@PeteAbe
Nothing official on a #RedSox roster move. But Marlon Byrd was called into the mgr's office after the game and came out unhappy

#28 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:30 PM

RotoWorld confirms:

Red Sox designated OF Marlon Byrd for assignment.
The move clears a 40-man roster spot for the return of Daisuke Matsuzaka. Byrd struggled in his 34 games with the Red Sox and is batting just .210/.243/.245 overall this year, but he seems likely to refuse the assignment to Triple-A Pawtucket and attempt to latch on with another team. Ju

#29 Pumpsie


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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:46 AM

The obvious move. Byrd was given every opportunity to make a big impact. Just not good enough to stick. I wonder who the next vet coming out of Bobby V's office is going to be...Darnell? Podsednik? Could be soon.

#30 SoxScout


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Posted 09 June 2012 - 03:55 PM

Ryan Kalish is once again a baseball player, rather than someone who requires the special label of a rehabber.


The Red Sox activated Kalish from the 60-day disabled list and optioned him to Triple-A Pawtucket, a move that reflects the fact that the 24-year-old is once again healthy in his return from neck and then shoulder surgeries in late-2011. In nine games across three levels (three each in High-A, Double-A and Triple-A), Kalish is hitting .375 with a .512 OBP, .750 slugging mark and 1.262 OPS. He has reached base in 11 of 16 plate appearances with Triple-A Pawtucket and earlier this week slugged homers in back-to-back games.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21205836/kalish-activated-dl-and-optioned

#31 Plympton91


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Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:04 PM

Not a big fan of Crawford's. Career .773 OPS and 105 OPS+ and paid as if he's really someone else. He'll probably step up from his lousy 2011 but he's probably never going to repeat his career year of 2010 ever again. And I don't see him coming back now, after his lousy 2010 and being out with an injury this season, and doing well. I think he's going to struggle, and, possibly be even worse than last season. The problem is that both Nava and/or Kalish is probably going to give you better production in August than CC will. And THAT'S going to be an issue as every game gains in importance going down the stretch. Hard to see CC's return being a good one with the pressure really on him to perform. He's going to have to start pretty hot right out of the box or it could get ugly for both him and the team. Not a great situation.


Crawford is basically Ryan Sweeney with a little more power, a lot more speed, and a lot worse arm. If Kalish is performing to his MLE and everyone is healthy, it's likely Sweeney rather than Crawford who is rightfully the odd man out. (Which is not to say that Crawford is worth 6 time more than Sweeney, as the proverbial rat leaving the sinking ship thought.

#32 SoxScout


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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:15 PM

Sean_McAdam
Cody Ross w/ team. Will run on field today, begin rehab stint with Pawt. this Friday, hopes to be activated June 19 when homestand begins.



#33 Eric Van


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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:17 PM

So your contnention is that the performance of the players will be a determining factor in roster construction?


No, the point was that the performance [of Nava, Kalish, and WMB] will be just about the only determining factor, because as far as I can tell they'd all about equally useful as the last guy on the bench, in their various different roles--which is actually rather unusual.

Often when you look at a situation like this, you conclude that so-and-so is the keeper, assuming they all perform reasonably well, because he'd be the most useful bench guy. Hence it is actually rare that a roster construction decision depends "very much" on the way the players perform. For instance, all three of these guys could put up 1.000 OPS and yet you wouldn't cut Punto to keep two of them.

#34 SoxScout


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Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:20 PM

Carl Crawford is throwing up to 110 feet, Bobby Valentine said Saturday, and "hit it really well" while taking batting practice.

Conclusion? "I've got to think he's close to playing in a baseball game,'' Valentine said.

http://espn.go.com/b...to-playing-game

Buster_ESPN: Carl Crawford feels like he's very, very close to beginning a minor-league rehab assignment. He's hitting and running at full speed now.

Buster_ESPN: BOS won't be as concerned with Crawford's throwing as they would with others; they'll just tell SS Aviles to cover more ground on relays.


Ross is playing right now in AAA, he wants to be activated Tuesday to start the homestand.

Edited by SoxScout, 16 June 2012 - 07:21 PM.


#35 Pumpsie


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Posted 17 June 2012 - 12:57 PM

Today, Sweeney is on the DL and Kalish takes HIS place. So, McDonald will probably be let go when Ross comes back up, right? He seems to be the odd man out right now. Or, maybe they will put Nava on the DL for awhile but they used him just last night. Be interesting to see how all this is handled.

#36 JakeRae


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Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:38 PM

Today, Sweeney is on the DL and Kalish takes HIS place. So, McDonald will probably be let go when Ross comes back up, right? He seems to be the odd man out right now. Or, maybe they will put Nava on the DL for awhile but they used him just last night. Be interesting to see how all this is handled.

Why would they DL a perfectly healthy player with options?

#37 E5 Yaz


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Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:44 PM

Let's play the Nick Cafardo Mouthpiece Game

So, there's this tweet:


nickcafardo Red Sox believe Ryan Kalish can really be a spark.


And there's this from the Sunday Notes column:

Would love to hear a conversation between Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo andBen Cherington about Jacoby Ellsbury. The Nats have been looking for that impact leadoff hitter/center fielder for a while, and they have an interesting pitcher or two that would fit Boston nicely. The Sox are convinced that Jackie Bradley is going to be a major league center fielder, and he is rising fast. So there is less reason to be held hostage by Ellsbury’s future contract demands and lengthy rehabs.


http://www.bostonglo...jcVI/story.html

Now, if believe that someone in Sox management uses Cafardo to send messages, you can take these two tidbits, adjust your tinfoil hat and come up with ...

... Management hopes that Kalish can hit and handle CF w/o getting hurt again, so that they can deal the soon-to-be-expensive, methodically healing Ellsbury and keep Kalish in CF until Bradley is ready.

Or not

#38 Pumpsie


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Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:47 PM

Why would they DL a perfectly healthy player with options?


So, Nava would just be sent back down, in your opinion?

#39 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 17 June 2012 - 03:03 PM

I think Kalish replacing Ellsbury has always been the plan. Giving Ellsbury $100M for his age 30+ seasons is a risky move, especially given what the Sox have committed going forward, and that Ellsbury is likely to have another lost season this year, and is represented by Boras. Someone will offer more than the Sox.

What pitchers is Cafardo talking about, though? They obviously aren't trading Strasburg, Gonzalez, or Zimmerman. Detwiler?

Most likely scenario seems like letting Ellsbury walk after next year, unless they want to get out of his contract for next year and / or get blown away by an offer.

#40 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 17 June 2012 - 03:48 PM

I think Kalish replacing Ellsbury has always been the plan. Giving Ellsbury $100M for his age 30+ seasons is a risky move, especially given what the Sox have committed going forward, and that Ellsbury is likely to have another lost season this year, and is represented by Boras. Someone will offer more than the Sox.

What pitchers is Cafardo talking about, though? They obviously aren't trading Strasburg, Gonzalez, or Zimmerman. Detwiler?

Most likely scenario seems like letting Ellsbury walk after next year, unless they want to get out of his contract for next year and / or get blown away by an offer.


It was pretty clear back in 2009-10 that the long-term plan was for Kalish to take over for Drew, and the Sox would sign a RHH power hitter in the vein of Manny, Bay, and Holliday Cameron. Well, never you mind that.

Then Holliday was offered to little, Crawford was offered too much, and Reddick was traded because there were too many LH bats in the outfield. So I guess plans change.

I agree that the Sox extending or signing Ellsbury in free agency (at Boras rates) is highly, highly unlikely. I think it far more likely that -- should Kalish perform well in Ellsbury's absence -- the Sox will try to trade Jacoby in the offseason after his salary number is pinned down.

#41 JMDurron

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 08:45 PM

The only thing worse than an injury to Scott Podsednik is the fact that we have good reason to be concerned about an injury to Scott Podsednik. So, who gets to be outfielder #14?

#42 Rasputin


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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:46 PM

The only thing worse than an injury to Scott Podsednik is the fact that we have good reason to be concerned about an injury to Scott Podsednik. So, who gets to be outfielder #14?


They'll probably just bring Ross back from the DL.

#43 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:00 PM

They'll probably just bring Ross back from the DL.


Lin again for a couple days, if Ross isn't ready to go.

#44 bosockboy


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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:44 PM

I think Kalish replacing Ellsbury has always been the plan. Giving Ellsbury $100M for his age 30+ seasons is a risky move, especially given what the Sox have committed going forward, and that Ellsbury is likely to have another lost season this year, and is represented by Boras. Someone will offer more than the Sox.

What pitchers is Cafardo talking about, though? They obviously aren't trading Strasburg, Gonzalez, or Zimmerman. Detwiler?

Most likely scenario seems like letting Ellsbury walk after next year, unless they want to get out of his contract for next year and / or get blown away by an offer.


Probably Detwiler and Storen I'd think.

#45 JMDurron

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 10:36 AM

Lin again for a couple days, if Ross isn't ready to go.


That is the name I was struggling to recall. I knew there was another AAA option that wasn't hurt, thanks.

#46 trekfan55


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Posted 18 June 2012 - 10:48 AM

The only thing worse than an injury to Scott Podsednik is the fact that we have good reason to be concerned about an injury to Scott Podsednik. So, who gets to be outfielder #14?


Plus Nava cannot swing from the right side, according to this article:

Hustling center fielder Ryan Kalish, called up earlier in the day from Triple-A Pawtucket, broke a 3-3 tie with an RBI single in a three-run seventh inning punctuated by a suicide squeeze executed by Daniel Nava, who was unable to swing the bat from the right side because of a sore right hand, according to Valentine.



#47 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 18 June 2012 - 10:52 AM

Given his splits over his career, Nava's never been able to swing from the right hand side.

#48 normstalls

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 12:09 PM

I had heard that Ross probably will be activated today. That still the plan? If so, who goes?

I would almost lean towards Middlebrooks so he can get regular at bats.
You could send Mortensen down, but they lost an arm in the bullpen when Morales became a starter.

#49 Red(s)HawksFan


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Posted 19 June 2012 - 12:27 PM

I had heard that Ross probably will be activated today. That still the plan? If so, who goes?

I would almost lean towards Middlebrooks so he can get regular at bats.
You could send Mortensen down, but they lost an arm in the bullpen when Morales became a starter.

Middlebrooks to Pawtucket seems the simplest way to get Ross on to the roster. Kalish and Nava are the only other position players on the roster with options. Nava's playing too well (unless they decide to DL him, which is a possibility) and Kalish just arrived to replace Sweeney, so I don't think he's going anywhere.

Sending Middlebrooks down allows them to get Gonzalez out of the outfield. It's being talked about in other threads as well, but having Gonzalez back at first full time and giving Youkilis a vote of confidence by handing him back the everyday job at third could help get both guys back on track. Middlebrooks is the future, but it's not like he's tearing the cover off the ball at the moment. Heading down to Pawtucket for a couple weeks to a month and getting regular at bats isn't going to hurt him.

#50 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 19 June 2012 - 12:34 PM

I had heard that Ross probably will be activated today. That still the plan? If so, who goes?

I would almost lean towards Middlebrooks so he can get regular at bats.
You could send Mortensen down, but they lost an arm in the bullpen when Morales became a starter.


Nava to the DL so that he can finally take care of the thumb, would be my bet.

A switch-hitter who's known to be only physically able to swing from one side of the plate is of limited value.