13 replies to this topic

[Rovin Romine]

Given that we're in the age of the new CBA/Draft limitations, I'm curious as to how the overall budget money can be spent.

Obviously, we'd love to have a kick ass team that's somewhat insulated from freak injuries and player decline by a lot of payroll flexibility and/or room to maneuver under the salary tax.

That said, we'll probably always have to be close to the tax to be competitive in the AL East, since a) if we're successful we'll have lower numbered draft picks and b) we'll likely have to acquire hefty free agents every so often to plug holes.

So, what non-salary/non-signing bonus things can a club to to gain an edge?


It seems that you could do a lot with educational (especially for foreign players), medical, and nutritional programs for both major and minor league players, down to the level of personal trainers, coaches, and whatnot.

For potential draftees, is there any combination of things that might seduce an otherwise college-bound or second sport prospect into thinking, "I have other options, but if I sign with the Sox now I'll have the best chance of making the majors because of X."

For major leaguers, is there any inhouse stuff you can offer to induce them to sign for less money?

I'm assuming funding for this would come from dollars otherwise lost to "tax," be it luxury or draft overspending (i.e., that 5 million "lost" to tax in a year might be better reallocated into things to entice players to join the Sox and perhaps stay on with them). I realize that sometimes it would be worth paying the tax for something to get you "over the hump" during any given year.

Anyone have any thoughts as to what you'd do for (or to) the players if you were in the driver's seat? Personally I think a lot can be done with food/nutrition and one-on-one instruction/training in the minors. (Perhaps it already is, I don't know.)

[alwyn96]

I think the biggest thing (besides cold hard cash) that a team can offer is just sincere commitment to the player's future. There's plenty of instruction going on in the minors, and I would guess all the free chicken in the world is probably not going to convince a young player take less money.

They might be able to improve the minor league lifestyle a bit - providing housing or other perks or something, but it's tough to beat cash in hand as a motivation to sign. Unfortunately the "tax" for going too much over slot or whatever also involves losing a draft pick, so the motivation to stay under is pretty strong.

[collings94]

I think the biggest thing (besides cold hard cash) that a team can offer is just sincere commitment to the player's future. There's plenty of instruction going on in the minors, and I would guess all the free chicken in the world is probably not going to convince a young player take less money.

They might be able to improve the minor league lifestyle a bit - providing housing or other perks or something, but it's tough to beat cash in hand as a motivation to sign. Unfortunately the "tax" for going too much over slot or whatever also involves losing a draft pick, so the motivation to stay under is pretty strong.

True, it's funny how MLB players have it so good, but minor league guys always bitch about long bus rides and crappy hotel stays. Can the minors lifestyle be THAT worse then the majors?

[jnlevetoncnmt]

Without just simply offering more money I don't see how the Red Sox would have any distinct advantage when it comes to luring players away from college. Maybe it was just a low quality overall draft, but it seemed like the new CBA hindered the Red Sox this year.

If they can't throw wads of cash at guys like Swihart, Barnes, Ranaudo, etc. then they are going to have to invest more in foreign players.

A year and a half ago when they traded Rizzo, Fuentes, and Kelly for one year of Adrian Gonzalez, I was ok with that, I figured they would just be able to replenish the minors with money. After watching this years draft, I do not want Ben to trade any of our top prospects for one year rentals.

[Rovin Romine]

There's probably not any one team with a true non-monetary edge - I'm just trying to figure out if a team *could* get one, and if so, how. You know, what tangible form that "sincere commitment" (which I agree with) would take.

Drafting foreign players might be the way to go - but to get a real edge, you'd have to invest a lot in scouts and facilities, plus find a way to acclimate your signs to the US (depending on whatever language/culture issues there are.)

By nutrition, I meant putting your minor leaguers into an overall fitness program, where you get someone to make all of their meals for them and work them into the best physical shape they can be in. Beer and fried chicken wouldn't be on the menu. Maybe it's too much in the way of hand-holding, but I never understood how you can spend a few million on a major leaguer who eats his way out of the game. I'm sure a lot of these guys police themselves out of self-interest, but it seems like we often read about some established player or prospect finally really getting it together from a nutrition/fitness perspective.

There's probably also a club culture you can market to potential signees. For example, knowing about how the club helped Lester and Westmoreland with their medical issues probably by itself wouldn't induce anyone to sign (young players don't plan on severe illness) but it's a good indication to a potential signee.

[wine111]

I think one thing the Red Sox could do is not play games with the years they have control over a player. If the Red Sox are perceived as getting players to free agency one year earlier than most teams by keeping them in the majors when they are ready, agents like Scott Boras will recognize that and give the Red Sox preferred treatment. The teams that keep players in the minors over the issue of service time will be at a disadvantage in signing drafted talent. I think the player agents track this closely.

[alwyn96]

I think one thing the Red Sox could do is not play games with the years they have control over a player. If the Red Sox are perceived as getting players to free agency one year earlier than most teams by keeping them in the majors when they are ready, agents like Scott Boras will recognize that and give the Red Sox preferred treatment. The teams that keep players in the minors over the issue of service time will be at a disadvantage in signing drafted talent. I think the player agents track this closely.

They probably do, although I doubt it's something that would make a big difference in negotiations. I'm not sure agents are going to be willing to take a big pay cut based on something that might or might not happen 3-6 years down the road, when they might not even be the player's agent any more. A lot of things can happen in that amount of time - probably best to get the money up front.

Now in terms of what this means for the Red Sox, it means they just can't buy talent the say way anymore (except on the international FA market, which is something they haven't excelled in) and need to make the most of their prospects. I'd imagine sending top and mid-level prospects to Athlete's Performance in Arizona or some kind of similar world class training facility like that to get in shape in the offseason might be of use, although they probably do something similar already. That, or just try to poach the Rays' whole prospect development team. Those guys seem to get incredible results from their draft picks.

It seems like the strategy this year was just to take safer college picks - guys graduating from college with more experience and a little less leverage than high school kids with huge bonus demands. Still, this was considered a somewhat weak draft, without a lot of top-end talent. It will be interesting to see how teams approach things when another Harper or Trout comes along with massive bonus demands. Things could get crazy.

Edited by alwyn96, 07 June 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[touchstone033]

The new CBA isn't "socialist" baseball. A socialist MLB would be one where the players -- or fans -- owned the clubs. This is old-fashioned crony capitalism: the owners got together and rigged up a system that essentially caps what teams can spend on labor, so that the owners that prefer to pocket revenue instead of spending money on players can still remain competitive.

Now in terms of what this means for the Red Sox, it means they just can't buy talent the say way anymore (except on the international FA market, which is something they haven't excelled in) and need to make the most of their prospects.

International signings have been capped harder than the draft. What teams can spend on international players will vary depending on team performance, but it'll be around $2M for all international signings. Which is ridiculously low.

[Rovin Romine]

The new CBA isn't "socialist" baseball. A socialist MLB would be one where the players -- or fans -- owned the clubs. This is old-fashioned crony capitalism: the owners got together and rigged up a system that essentially caps what teams can spend on labor, so that the owners that prefer to pocket revenue instead of spending money on players can still remain competitive.

I know. Would have made for an awkward thread title though.

From the perspective of a draft pick, it has to suck, call it what you will.

[alwyn96]

International signings have been capped harder than the draft. What teams can spend on international players will vary depending on team performance, but it'll be around $2M for all international signings. Which is ridiculously low.

I didn't realize there was a cap on international signings too. That was the one area where players could actually get what they were worth, and not have their contracts artificially deflated by MLB. It'll make it a lot tougher for the Red Sox to throw their money around too, although they haven't been that splashy with international signings apart from Dice-K, which isn't really a draft situation anyway.

[touchstone033]

This CBA is pretty lousy on a number of different levels. For starters, it does seriously rob draftees and especially international signees (most of whom have no other alternative or chance to make a decent living). But it also handicaps creative front offices from investing heavily on young talent, undercutting the ability of teams to build great farm systems. It also discourages the best baseball players from signing. The Mark Appel debacle in this year's draft is just a hint of what's to come. This is a poor draft class, and Appel of questionable no. 1 talent. Imagine what would happen if a Strasburg or Harper were in this kind of draft; how far would they fall? and would they opt for college instead? And could you imagine what would have happened to Strasburg in a college program, where they treat pitchers like meat?

I understand why the owners did this. Most of them are parasitical disinterested business executives who think nothing of robbing their teenage talent to put nickels in their pockets, but the players? I mean, they voted for this, stripping the financial opportunities from all players going forward that they themselves enjoyed. And for what? It's not like they gained any significant concessions from the owners in this CBA.

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

And could you imagine what would have happened to Strasburg in a college program, where they treat pitchers like meat?

Not sure if I am missing something, but he played 3 years at San Diego State.

[touchstone033]

Not sure if I am missing something, but he played 3 years at San Diego State.

Touche. +1

[orr4num]

I would think that being able to identify talent would be more important as a first step. Given the restrictions on drafting and signing, doesn't it make sense that teams are gonna have to place more of premium on keeping the guys they do draft healthy and getting them ready for the show? If it were my money...I'd be beefing up the scouting and evaluation side.

As an example, I believe we just signed a kid named Shaq Thompson out of California who also happens to be a 5-star safety prospect that is committed to play football at U. of Washington. The kid is a phenomenal athlete. While he might pan out, the odds are that he'll be sniffing an NFL camp in two years. My point, in this roundabout way, is the need for the Sox to find more of these Shaq Thompson types. It doesn't hurt that this kid is a great fb player, and I do think that there are likely many more out there flying under the radar.