307 replies to this topic

[Foulkey Reese]

Red Sox are telling teams they definitely intend to trade Youkilis.

Dan Knobler of CBS Sports
https://twitter.com/#!/DKnobler

If true, what kind of return could they get for him?

[Al Zarilla]

Dan Knobler of CBS Sports
https://twitter.com/#!/DKnobler

If true, what kind of return could they get for him?

Listening to KNBR SF Sports talk radio and they mentioned Youkilis just when I read this. All of SF's 1B options so far this year have been black holes. But, I'm not seeing a trade with the Giants.

[Rudy Pemberton]

At this point, doesn't it make the most sense, if you are going to deal him to move him for prospects? Given the talent they have on the DL, reinforcements are already in place to upgrade the existing holes. Not needing a major leaguer in return theoretically opens up the market a bit too, I think, in that you aren't asking teams for talent already on their roster.

[Yaz4Ever]

I'd take a flier on that struggling lanky kid, Tim something.

Hacker's having a helluva year in AAA, but he's almost 30 already. I'd still take him as part of a deal.

Ideally, this is where we turn to the north side of Chicago and check out their supposed fire sale to see what we can do straight up with Theo or with another team(s) involved.

[SaveBooFerriss]

The team trading for him is likely in contention is not looking to unload a contributing major league player for him.

I think the Sox trade him for the best prospects they can get, preferably arms. Top flight prospects are currency that can be used or held onto.

[TheoShmeo]

At this point, doesn't it make the most sense, if you are going to deal him to move him for prospects? Given the talent they have on the DL, reinforcements are already in place to upgrade the existing holes. Not needing a major leaguer in return theoretically opens up the market a bit too, I think, in that you aren't asking teams for talent already on their roster.

With Clay's ERA where it is, Bard still not having shown that he can be an effective starter and Bard and Doubront likely subject to an innings cap, and with Daisuke being the only obvious reinforcement in the minors, I'd like to see them try to turn Youks into an effective starter.

That might be hard or even impossible to do. But, to me, that's the first priority. If they can't do that, then I could see moving Youks for high end prospects.

I also hope that they wait until some of the reinforcements return before trading Youks.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

If they feel that they're a real title contender, I don't see how moving him for just prospects makes the most sense. If they feel they're a year away and that they're unlikely to make a serious title run this year, I can see them going that route, though.

I see this as a title contender, so if they're going to move him, I'd like to see something they need this year coming back. Considering that they'll have a need for a starting pitcher eventually this season (Doubront and Bard will both need to go back to the pen with only Matsuzaka available to fill that hole) but will have a crunch next year (Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Doubront, Bard and Lackey will all want to start), someone like Dempster might be a good piece to target. The problem there is that the Cubs have no reason to want Youk if they're going into full rebuild mode. So even if they'd be open to Youk for Dempster with the intention of using his option, then letting him walk after next year for two picks, they're not going to also give up a prospect which would be necessary for the Sox to see that as worth it.

Maybe they feel that this team can make a serious run at a title without Youk, and they probably can, but it seems like the roster is in a really interesting position right now where they could have an outstanding line up with a deep bench for the playoffs if they keep Youk and take the picks when he walks this winter.

Edit: As pointed out above, a three team trade with the Cubs might make sense. And Theo loves him some three ways.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 01 June 2012 - 10:56 AM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Well, the Cubs would have no interest in Youkilis, so a straight up deal there doesn't really make sense.

Assuming they wouldn't want to move him to an AL club; so you've got LA, SF, PHI, AZ as the most logical fits.

Maybe they feel that this team can make a serious run at a title without Youk, and they probably can, but it seems like the roster is in a really interesting position right now where they could have an outstanding line up with a deep bench for the playoffs if they keep Youk and take the picks when he walks this winter.

This is where I'm at. Trade Youks, and suddenly there's a lot more pressure on WMB. What if he suddenly gets hurt? I'd be open to trading Youks, but jeez, you'd have to be getting a ton back (or, the Sox would have to be really out of it).

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 01 June 2012 - 10:55 AM.

[Laser Show]

Well, the Cubs would have no interest in Youkilis, so a straight up deal there doesn't really make sense.

This is where I'm at. Trade Youks, and suddenly there's a lot more pressure on WMB. What if he suddenly gets hurt? I'd be open to trading Youks, but jeez, you'd have to be getting a ton back (or, the Sox would have to be really out of it).

I'm going to chime in and agree with this sentiment. With all of the injuries this team has dealt with, I don't like the idea of dealing a key contributor to our lineup (when healthy, granted) and fully handing the reins to WMB. He's been in the big leagues for a month. There will be struggles before the end of the year for him.

All of this is assuming that this team can play for a title (which hinges on most everyone getting healthy IMO).

EDIT: I would love the 3-way deal with the Cubs if we could land a Castro/Garza/Dempster, but I doubt that we'd be able to finagle that.

Edited by Laser Show, 01 June 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[Toe Nash]

Count me among those who don't understand the glaring need to trade Youk now.

It's only been nine games, but Youk is at .313/.371/.531 since returning from the DL and he doesn't seem to be grimacing after every swing and miss (of which there are fewer). Certainly he's a risk to get hurt again, but the Sox have a nice replacement available. Middlebrooks' power is real but his 4/29 BB/K rate (and .400 BABIP) makes me hesitant to just hand him the job.

There's not a clear position they'd want to trade Youk for, either. Starter will likely be a need down the road as Doubront and Bard near their innings limits, but I don't see that being an issue until July. Dice-K is returning soonish.

It makes much more sense to wait until close to the trading deadline to make a move. You run the risk of Youk getting re-injured, but you'll have a better picture of:
-The team's place in the playoff hunt (whether you need current or future value)
-The pitching's performance / injury / innings limit status
-Middlebrooks' development

[pokey_reese]

If Youk is raking in a few weeks but we still are sitting around .500, then maybe you make the move. But if his numbers aren't great, or the team looks like a playoff contender, I would hold him.

Also, if the depth means that Punto has to play more if anyone gets hurt, then I don't know that I want him to go anywhere...

[bosockboy]

Not likely, but I could see Theo interested in Youk as a bit of a role model for a young team that shows youngsters the value of looking at pitches and some veteran leadership. Similar to Wright with the Mets, who have a very young team but are expected to lock Wright up long term.

More likely, agreed, is a 3 team deal that nets us Dempster or Garza. For once, we don't need bullpen arms, as we don't have room for Melancon now, and will eventually need to make room for Bailey, Bard and likely Doubront later this summer.

If we can spin Youk and a lower prospect into Dempster and Jeff Baker (Pedroia/WMB insurance)....I think that's a win-win.

[Freddy Linn]

The White Sox have the worst OPS in the majors from the 3B position, with Brent Morel in Punto territory. I would love to work Kenny Williams over, but they may have the worst system in baseball.

[Pumpsie]

I think the play is Youks, one of our relievers (we have more than we can put on the 25), and a prospect for a starting pitcher. So, the trade partner would have a need for either a first baseman/third baseman and a reliever right now and would be willing to give up a starter. If we can't get a starting pitcher out of it, why make the trade?

[Corsi]

#dodgers are stepping up scouting of youkilis. clear signal is the new LAD will do what it takes to win.

https://twitter.com/...598145343553536

[Corsi]

The Dodgers and White Sox are two teams that have already seen Youkilis play. He would also seem to be a fit for the Phillies, Reds, Diamondbacks and possibly the Giants. Even the Rangers have checked on him, according to sources.

The Red Sox could look to unload most of Youkilis' money (in that case, the Dodgers may make the most sense), or they could offer to pay much of the salary and get a better return.

The Red Sox have also told teams that they would like to trade for a pitcher, with some speculating that Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington will attempt to deal with his former boss, Theo Epstein. Epstein's Cubs will likely trade Matt Garza and/or Ryan Dempster this summer.

http://www.cbssports...-trade-youkilis

[Oil Can Dan]

https://twitter.com/...598145343553536

The Dodgers are an interesting possibility. They just lost Kemp for another month, and so it would stand to reason that they'd look to improve offense. Their 3B situation this season has been a mess, with Juan Uribe, Jerry Hairston and Adam Kenned seeing playing time there. And they have an apparent surplus at the back of their bullpen. Kenley Jansen has been great as the newly minted closer and demoted closer Javy Guerra and Josh Lindblom have been lights out over the past month or so.

The Sox bullpen is seemingly not an area of concern right now, but could a package of Guerra or Lindblom plus a prospect get it done? There could be a match in there somewhere...

[twothousandone]

EDIT: I would love the 3-way deal with the Cubs if we could land a Castro/Garza/Dempster, but I doubt that we'd be able to finagle that.

Youkilis and Miller to the Cubs for DeWitt and Dempster.
Then Chicago moves Youkilis, along with Sean Camp, to Cleveland for Scott Barnes?

[Corsi]

Any chance we could pry Billingsley from them? He's due $11M next year, $12M in 2014, and a $14M club option with a $3M buyout in 2015 (so, all told, he's due at least $26M over the next two seasons). He's solid, but underwhelming. They signed him coming off of a 109 ERA+ season, and he's put up seasons of 87 and 92 (thus far) since. Since 2009, he's gone 37-37.

Obviously it would take more than Youkilis, but I wonder if his name would be on the table.

Edited by Corsi, 01 June 2012 - 11:59 AM.

[bosockboy]

Any chance we could pry Billingsley from them? He's due $11M next year, $12M in 2014, and a $14M club option with a $3M buyout in 2015 (so, all told, he's due at least $26M over the next two seasons). He's solid, but underwhemling. They signed him coming off of a 109 ERA+ season, and he's put up seasons of 87 and 92 (thus far) since. Since 2009, he's gone 37-37.

Obviously it would take more than Youkilis, but I wanted if his name would be on the table.

I wouldn't think a pretty much guaranteed playoff team would subtract from its rotation mid season. I thought of him too, but I'd rather have Dempster or Garza anyway and they are far more realistic via a 3-team deal.

[ngruz25]

Talk radio in Pittsburgh has been talking about Youkilis as a fit for a couple weeks now. They need hitting and have plenty of major league ready pitching. The high minors in Pittsburgh are pretty barren, but there are a few guys in the lower minors that would be interesting.

Names that I could see in play: Charlie Morton (ground ball machine starter), Brad Lincoln (can start, has been pitching well out of the bullpen in a swingman role), Jared Hughes (ground ball machine reliever), A.J. Burnett (hah!), Joel Hanrahan (All-Star closer). Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox bought low on Clint Barmes in conjunction with one of these names.

One of the discussions on the radio was whether Youkilis would be worth giving up James McDonald. With the way he's pitching, though, I don't see that as realistic.

Edited by ngruz25, 01 June 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[gammoseditor]

There are lots of young Dodgers players and prospects that we could use. Nathan Eovaldi is the first name that comes to mind, and he was just called up to make a start for them as an injury replacement. Josh Lindblom would be a nice addition as well. Zach Lee is their top ptiching prospect in the minor leagues. Or a package of a lesser pitching prospect (Allen Webster) and a OF prospect (Joc Pederson). I really think the Dodgers make the most sense. The new ownership wants to win. They are in first place. They've had some injuries. And they are awful at both 1B and 3B.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I'd feel a lot better abour trading Youk if WMB' s K/BB ratio wasnt so terrible.

[rembrat]

The White Sox have the worst OPS in the majors from the 3B position, with Brent Morel in Punto territory. I would love to work Kenny Williams over, but they may have the worst system in baseball.

If Youks is traded he will almost certainly be traded to the NL. The last thing the FO would want is to trade him to an AL team and have him come back and kill the Sox at Fenway.

[DanoooME]

I can see the argument that the team needs more starting pitching, but really only for this year. For 2013, the list of starters includes:

Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Buchholz
Doubront
Bard

So there's already one man out in the game of SP musical chairs next year, so any starting pitcher acquired is just a rental. Is it really worth giving up Youk, especially given the concerns about WMB going forward voiced above, for a rental like Dempster? Or if Garza was on the table, who gets dealt from the current team, because then there's 7 guys for 5 chairs? And you can make the argument that Bard should go back to the 'pen full time, but I don't think the FO sees it that way.

I'd wait until at least the deadline to make that deal, if I'd make the deal at all. Once the team is healthy, if they play up to capabilities, there's not much that would be available that would significantly upgrade the team.

[djhb20]

I'd feel a lot better abour trading Youk if WMB' s K/BB ratio wasnt so terrible.

This.

It's atrocious. He does see a fair number of pitches per PA (more than Ortiz, for example: 3.98 v. 3.88) but it's not translating into any walks. That 29/4 projects to like 180 Ks and 24 walks in a full season (he's played 24 games). Moreover, it's not just bad because the walk rate is low (4.0%); the strikeout rate is also super high (29.3%). That's not pretty. It's not even close to pretty.

[bosockboy]

I can see the argument that the team needs more starting pitching, but really only for this year. For 2013, the list of starters includes:

Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Buchholz
Doubront
Bard

So there's already one man out in the game of SP musical chairs next year, so any starting pitcher acquired is just a rental. Is it really worth giving up Youk, especially given the concerns about WMB going forward voiced above, for a rental like Dempster? Or if Garza was on the table, who gets dealt from the current team, because then there's 7 guys for 5 chairs? And you can make the argument that Bard should go back to the 'pen full time, but I don't think the FO sees it that way.

I'd wait until at least the deadline to make that deal, if I'd make the deal at all. Once the team is healthy, if they play up to capabilities, there's not much that would be available that would significantly upgrade the team.

Someone like Dempster would also have draft pick compensation....you'd have to include that in the equation I'd think.

[Al Zarilla]

I can see the argument that the team needs more starting pitching, but really only for this year. For 2013, the list of starters includes:

Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Buchholz
Doubront
Bard

So there's already one man out in the game of SP musical chairs next year, so any starting pitcher acquired is just a rental. Is it really worth giving up Youk, especially given the concerns about WMB going forward voiced above, for a rental like Dempster? Or if Garza was on the table, who gets dealt from the current team, because then there's 7 guys for 5 chairs? And you can make the argument that Bard should go back to the 'pen full time, but I don't think the FO sees it that way.

I'd wait until at least the deadline to make that deal, if I'd make the deal at all. Once the team is healthy, if they play up to capabilities, there's not much that would be available that would significantly upgrade the team.

The list of anything always looks better in the future. Also, are any of those six Sox pitchers a guaranteed stud? OK, who is a stud, e.g., looking at the likes of Lincecum and Halladay having the problems they're having this year.

What position area do you trade Youks for?

IF...he's an infielder. Trade one for another?

OF...actually looks like a possible surplus when/if injured guys come back.

C. Looks good.

P. Can never have too much of this.

Still, you have to be awfully careful trading guy like Youkilis. I know it's about the future, not what he's done in the past, but he shouldn't be washed up at this point. He just turned 33 in March.

[TheoShmeo]

I can see the argument that the team needs more starting pitching, but really only for this year. For 2013, the list of starters includes:

Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Buchholz
Doubront
Bard

So there's already one man out in the game of SP musical chairs next year, so any starting pitcher acquired is just a rental. Is it really worth giving up Youk, especially given the concerns about WMB going forward voiced above, for a rental like Dempster? Or if Garza was on the table, who gets dealt from the current team, because then there's 7 guys for 5 chairs? And you can make the argument that Bard should go back to the 'pen full time, but I don't think the FO sees it that way.

I'd wait until at least the deadline to make that deal, if I'd make the deal at all. Once the team is healthy, if they play up to capabilities, there's not much that would be available that would significantly upgrade the team.

As to next year, who knows what Lackey will look like after rehab? Some pitchers are not the same after major surgery, of course. Also, Bard very well may not be cut out for starting.

As to this year, I don't mind the idea of a one-year starter for Youks. Youks himself isn't signed beyond this season. Additionally, with the innings cap that Doobie and Bard have, they will clearly need reinforcements in order to compete this season. Since making the playoffs in 2012 seems more than possible, I'm OK with a deal that helps give them that chance, even if it wasn't calculated to help them in 2013.

[JakeRae]

I don't see why the focus of trading Youk would be on acquiring current MLB help. This is especially true if Youk gets traded sooner rather than later. You get the best talent package back and then you focus on acquiring the pieces that you need at the deadline. For example, the team does not currently need starting pitching even if it might in a month or two. Why would you trade for a starter now when you can trade for prospects now and trade for the starter later (using those prospects) if you decide you need that.

One thing to keep in mind when discussing trading Youk is also that the methods for acquiring farm system talent are about to change. Gone are the days of overspending to acquire signability players via the draft and maintain a talented farm system that way. There needs to be a new means of acquiring talent. Trading veteran talent when the organization has suitable means of replacing it is one of the ways to do so.

On that last note, you do not have to expect Middlebrooks to outperform Youk for a trade to make sense. All that needs to be true is that the net present value of the pieces acquired for Youkilis exceeds that of Youkilis adjusted for the opportunity cost related to using Middlebrooks in the majors versus minors this year. Put differently, if you think Youk is one win better than Middlebrooks but another team is willing to give up a major prospect package for Youk that is worth more than that 1 win (adjusted for uncertainty and time-value) you do that trade. The idea that a good team should never trade away talent is fundamentally in conflict with maximizing value and I sincerely hope this organization chooses to buck that paradigm and take value where it is. If you are a football fan, think of what I'm talking about as analogous to the strategy behind the Patriots tendency to trade down or into future years. In the long run, you end up with a stronger organization by opting to defer value if it sufficiently increases the overall value received. The reticence of good-performing teams to defer value is a large part of what leads to the contending/rebuilding cycle and I'd rather root for teams that avoid the latter and remain the former by deferring some present value at times when they can afford it.

[Pumpsie]

There's going to be a ton of pitching available this summer in trades. It's a glut, actually. There are very few hitters available, and NO other third basemen...and third basemen are a precious commodity in baseball right now. There's one other first baseman, Morneau of the Twins. So, THIS would be the perfect time to score a pitcher for Youks. There won't be a more optimal time. I imagine that Ben and Theo could figure out a three-way deal with someone to get Garza to the Sox and prospects to the Cubs and Youks to the Dodgers, White Sox or someone else.

[gammoseditor]

There's going to be a ton of pitching available this summer in trades. It's a glut, actually. There are very few hitters available, and NO other third basemen...and third basemen are a precious commodity in baseball right now. There's one other first baseman, Morneau of the Twins. So, THIS would be the perfect time to score a pitcher for Youks. There won't be a more optimal time. I imagine that Ben and Theo could figure out a three-way deal with someone to get Garza to the Sox and prospects to the Cubs and Youks to the Dodgers, White Sox or someone else.

I'm not sure there's going to be much of anything available at the trading deadline with the extra wild card.

[Zedia]

Someone like Dempster would also have draft pick compensation....you'd have to include that in the equation I'd think.

I don't believe that's true under the new compensation rules:

"After the 2012 draft, free agents will no longer be classified by "type". Instead, a team will only be able to receive compensation if it makes its former player an offer at least equal to the average of the 125 richest contracts.[29] However, if a player is traded during the final season of his contract, his new team will be ineligible to receive any compensation.[30]"

http://en.wikipedia....nt_compensation

(sorry for the format, posting from an iPad)

Edited by Zedia, 01 June 2012 - 01:06 PM.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Someone like Dempster would also have draft pick compensation....you'd have to include that in the equation I'd think.

No he doesn't. New CBA changed that.

http://mlb.mlb.com/n...ent_id=26030810

In order to get a compensation pick going forward, a team has to offer a free agent a guaranteed one-year contract equal to the average of the top 125 paid players in Major League Baseball, an amount believed to be about $12 million. Compensation can only be given for a player who was with a team the entire year. The days of trading for a Type A free agent for two months merely for the compensation picks are over.

Edit: Zedia beat me to it.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 01 June 2012 - 01:10 PM.

[Pumpsie]

I'm not sure there's going to be much of anything available at the trading deadline with the extra wild card.

Well, Jon Heyman certainly thinks so. He makes a good case here: http://www.cbssports...d-with-pitching

[trekfan55]

New twist

Cherington: Youkilis trade report 'inaccurate' http://www.weei.com/...port-inaccurate via @WEEI

Speier

[Pumpsie]

New twist



Speier

Makes perfect sense to downplay this. Play tough to get. Insist that you don't HAVE to trade him...which they don't. I think that the report was inaccurate only in the sense of how much the Sox want or need to trade Youks. Ben is trying to correct the impression that the Sox really need to do this.

[JimBoSox9]

I'd feel a lot better abour trading Youk if WMB' s K/BB ratio wasnt so terrible.

Me too. He's recovered from when it looked like he was going to fall off a cliff, but his numbers still scream for regression.

Youks has held up his part of of the bargain, with a 920 OPS since coming off the DL. It's a gamble to trade him before WMB proves he can maintain a reasonable OBP, but at least they get to be in the position of trading from strength instead of moving damaged goods. I'd move him for pitching help or a plus OF, but I'd hesitate to trade him before the deadline for prospects. Garza is the obvious target, I'd make that trade and never think twice.

At this point I've concluded that Middlebrooks is Alfonso Soriano. A very useful player but by no means a cornerstone guy.

WMB is 23 years old with a .579 SLG and (currently) acceptable OBP and good defense (as long as you don't hit it over his head), and you've seen enough to conclude he's not a cornerstone guy? Interesting.

Edited by JimBoSox9, 01 June 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

New twist

Speier

All it takes is one semantic difference for BC to claim correctly that the report is wrong. If they're "not telling teams" they're going to trade Youk, that doesn't mean they won't listen when other teams initiate contact.

IF they have enough faith in WMB's progress, they'd be foolish not to see what kind of deal they could get ... given how iffy picking up the option next year would be.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

The cynic in me says that's what Cherington has to say, but the realist in me says that of course it's "inaccurate" - as though Cherington would trade Youk for a bag of baseballs if no other offer was made? My first reaction on reading "definitely intend to trade" was that no GM would ever tell another GM that, considering it immediately diminishes value.

Is the reporter just badly rephrasing something a source told him? Is he making shit up out of whole cloth to gain attention for himself? Did another source feed him bad info trying to diminish Youk's value? Lots of stuff not adding up there.

Edited by MyDaughterLovesTomGordon, 01 June 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[Sprowl]

All it takes is one semantic difference for BC to claim correctly that the report is wrong. If they're "not telling teams" they're going to trade Youk, that doesn't mean they won't listen when other teams initiate contact.

IF they have enough faith in WMB's progress, they'd be foolish not to see what kind of deal they could get ... given how iffy picking up the option next year would be.

Exactly: Cherington's is a non-denial denial.

Red Sox are telling teams they definitely intend to trade Youkilis

might be inaccurate because Cherington has told teams that Youkilis is available, but not definitely, or because his willingness is not the same as his intention, or because Lucchino has veto power, or any one of a hundred circumlocutions. Youks is clearly on the market, as SoSH speculated a month ago. The difference this time around is that either the Sox are using Knobler as town crier (unlikely -- that's usually Gammons' job), or another team is using Knobler to try to lower the price on Youkilis.

[mabrowndog]

Just to tie things together, here's the previous thread discussing the possible trade fits and potential return for Youk.

As I said before, this is the perfect storm for maximizing the Sox' trade haul, since there are so many teams in dire need of help at 3B. His ability to play excellent D at 1B further enhances his value. I just hope Cherington doesn't limit his pool of trade partners and sell too low because he's got his eyes on a certain binky.

[mabrowndog]

Also, Youkilis isn't in the lineup tonight.

Likely just a routine night off. Youk being 0-for-5 vs Henderson Alvarez is just icing on the "tonight's a good night to sit him" cake.

[Harry Hooper]

might be inaccurate because Cherington has told teams that Youkilis is available, but not definitely, or because his willingness is not the same as his intention, or because Lucchino has veto power, or any one of a hundred circumlocutions. Youks is clearly on the market, as SoSH speculated a month ago. The difference this time around is that either the Sox are using Knobler as town crier (unlikely -- that's usually Gammons' job), or another team is using Knobler to try to lower the price on Youkilis.

Might be inaccurate? There would be no reason or advantage for Ben to tell other teams that Youks is defintely getting moved.

[Sprowl]

The WMB Comps debate now has its own thread.

***

I agree that it is not to the Red Sox' advantage to have this rumor out there in this form, so it is more likely to come from someone else. Who leaks through Knobler? What teams have him on speed-dial?

Anybody in baseball can see that the Red Sox will deal from positions of present surplus (bullpen, corner infielder, and possibly catcher), and seek to acquire outfielders and middle infielders for the short term, starters (because every team always needs starters), and prospects. Youkilis is a high-value asset, especially now that he is visibly healthy again. The team will probably take some precautions to keep him that way.

The team might also make outfielders available in July, depending on injury recoveries by Ellsbury, Crawford and others.

[941827]

I don't buy that the Phillies or Reds would be interested. The Giants have 4 first basemen on the roster (Posey (who plays 1b on his "days off"), Huff, Pill and Belt) and Panda coming back soon. They're not going to trade anything of significance for Youk. Best bet would be to create a bidding war between the D'backs and the Dodgers and encourage Sabean to pretend he's a bidder, too, to drive up the price for his division rivals.

There's going to be a ton of pitching available this summer in trades. It's a glut, actually. There are very few hitters available, and NO other third basemen...and third basemen are a precious commodity in baseball right now. There's one other first baseman, Morneau of the Twins.

Keep in mind that Theo is willing to deal LaHair, who may be more appealing to some than Youk.

[Jinhocho]

Talk radio in Pittsburgh has been talking about Youkilis as a fit for a couple weeks now. They need hitting and have plenty of major league ready pitching. The high minors in Pittsburgh are pretty barren, but there are a few guys in the lower minors that would be interesting.

Names that I could see in play: Charlie Morton (ground ball machine starter), Brad Lincoln (can start, has been pitching well out of the bullpen in a swingman role), Jared Hughes (ground ball machine reliever), A.J. Burnett (hah!), Joel Hanrahan (All-Star closer). Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox bought low on Clint Barmes in conjunction with one of these names.

One of the discussions on the radio was whether Youkilis would be worth giving up James McDonald. With the way he's pitching, though, I don't see that as realistic.

I read, earlier this week, an interesting run through what the Pirates had to trade and would maybe be willing to trade. It is a longish piece and worth reading, but the money part is:

Here is the problem. The Pirates have virtually no assets with which to make a season-altering move. I'm going to leave Jameson Taillon and Gerrit Cole out of the discussion. It's fine for the Pirates to have two players off limits and those two probably should be, with the usual caveats. So let me list all the players in the organization from Class AA up who will bring back a front-line major league player(s).

Andrew McCutchen, Joel Hanrahan and James McDonald.

That's the list. It doesn't mean a bunch of other players aren't valuable. Marte would bring a lot back. Charlie Morton would fetch something. There is some value in the bullpen. But today, a quality, team-altering, plug-and-play major league starter isn't coming back for anyone but the three above.

Let's look at it more closely. Obviously, to improve the offense, the team would have to trade pitching. As terrible as Neal Huntington has been at signing free agent position players, he has been fantastic at acquiring pitching. The Pirates have pitching, but what will it bring back? This is the hard part, because the truthful answer is that we don't know. We can speculate, and that's what makes it entertaining, but it's hard to pinpoint value and need.

And that's the May vs. July problem. If you look at today's standings there are probably five teams that are realistically out of contention. That means most teams still think their off-season plan applies and aren't ready to make dramatic changes. In July, when 65 percent of the script is written, wants and needs are much more easily and clearly defined. So yes, it is much harder to get trades done now. It smacks of desperation. That doesn't mean a trade shouldn't be made, it means that it's a seller's market and the desperate team (the buyer) is less likely to get equal value since most teams aren't necessarily looking to sell.

Back to the pitching and what to trade. As great as the Pirates pitching has been, I'm not sure the individual components will bring back more than what might be lost. Let's look at the starters:

James McDonald: An emerging pitcher around whom the team should probably build its rotation.

A.J. Burnett: 35, under contract for next year. Very limited market this past offseason, which is why he's a Pirate.

Erik Bedard: Injury-prone, having not completed his last four seasons. Limited return. July trade highly likely.

Charlie Morton: Erratic history. Probably more upside than trade value, based on limited major-league success.

Jeff Karstens: Hurt. No trade value at the moment.

Kevin Correia: Free agent at season's end. No trade value.

Brad Lincoln: Maybe the most interesting name. Seems to have taken a big step forward this season. Can start, but has been electric out of bullpen. Cheap. Certainly should be made available, but he's unproven, with value all on the come, so it's hard to think he brings back much.

As for relievers, we have seen the market pay up for closers in the offseason, but so far not in-season, even with many closers injured. Every team has looked internally for answers. That doesn't bode well for the Pirates, because it clearly is a position of strength.

Joel Hanrahan: Dominating closer. Should bring back major-league talent.

Jason Grilli: 30 strikeouts in 17 innings this season. Stuff has been almost a filthy as Hanrahan's, but he's 35 and is a free agent at the end of the season. Some trade value.

Juan Cruz: Has been effective, but command is always an issue. Little market in offseason. No trade value.

Chris Resop: No trade value.

Evan Meek: No trade value.

Tony Watson

and Jared Hughes: Young, effective and cheap. Probably more valuable to Pirates than on the trade market. Small chips.

http://www.bucsdugou...rnal-assessment

I wouldnt mind snagging Starling Marte in a deal w Pittsburgh...

[OCD SS]

I don't see why the focus of trading Youk would be on acquiring current MLB help. This is especially true if Youk gets traded sooner rather than later. You get the best talent package back and then you focus on acquiring the pieces that you need at the deadline. For example, the team does not currently need starting pitching even if it might in a month or two. Why would you trade for a starter now when you can trade for prospects now and trade for the starter later (using those prospects) if you decide you need that.

One thing to keep in mind when discussing trading Youk is also that the methods for acquiring farm system talent are about to change. Gone are the days of overspending to acquire signability players via the draft and maintain a talented farm system that way. There needs to be a new means of acquiring talent. Trading veteran talent when the organization has suitable means of replacing it is one of the ways to do so.

This. And also the sort of team that is looking to acquire Youks by definition will feel that they are in contention, and are probably not going want to weaken their MLB squad in one area (except maybe a mid-tier bullpen arm) in order to add Youks. That means that the Sox are looking for prospects.

I think the we should also look at the possibility that the Sox are not really contenders this year. Yes the East has tightened up by quite a bit and they are by no means out of it, but there are a lot of issues with this team, and the trade return for Youks is not going to fix all of them.

[SoxFanPJ]

With the changes to the Rule 4 draft and Intenational Free Agency, I wonder if the veteran for prospect trade makes a ton of sense for some teams.

Speaking generally, on one side you have players (Youk's option situation aside) who can yield compensatory draft picks which increase your total draft cap. On the other hand you are probably better off getting prospects via trade because they don't count against your draft cap you also have the added benefit of the pro-rated salary savings against the luxury tax for the player you are trading away.

With the new draft rules, consistent winning clubs are at a real disadvantage because of the draft budget pools. The Red Sox are going to have to get creative to keep the farm system strong.

Given the composition of the current team, I think it is hard to see Youkilis yielding an MLB starter of the quality that would be necessary to force on our current pitchers from the rotation.

[PrometheusWakefield]

I think the we should also look at the possibility that the Sox are not really contenders this year. Yes the East has tightened up by quite a bit and they are by no means out of it, but there are a lot of issues with this team, and the trade return for Youks is not going to fix all of them.

I agree that there is no reason to deal Youkilis for a marginal major league player who would only be essentially the equivalent of the guys we have in the current rotation, like Saunders. But you can figure out a way to make Youk a major part of a deal that nets us a Greinke or a Garza - and get a contract extension in place for the guy you get - you have to make that move. This team is good enough that adding another major SP could make a huge difference. Greinke's peripherals in particular indicate that he's probably one of the very best pitchers in the league, and any time a pitcher of that caliber is on the table you have to make a major effort to land him.