543 replies to this topic

[Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat]

No game thread?

Okay, here's one. Clay will beat the Blue Jays tonight.

[MalzoneExpress]

I miss winning. Please start winning again.

[InsideTheParker]

My Red Sox fandom is being challenged by the decision to shop Youkilis. Dammit to hell. I think it's a mistake and one that those of you who are most eager for his departure may come to regret. Until this has occurred, geaux Sox, yadda yadda yadda.

[NoMaRRaMoN]

My Red Sox fandom is being challenged by the decision to shop Youkilis.

You'd forsake the Red Sox over Kevin Youkilis?

[E5 Yaz]

Clay!

[Sprowl]

Clay Turtle shall lead them.

[Cellar-Door]

You'd forsake the Red Sox over Kevin Youkilis?

The Re-animated corpse of Kevin Youkilis.

[Frank, Fenway]

The Re-animated corpse of Kevin Youkilis.

Don't let 'em near your face

[InsideTheParker]

You'd forsake the Red Sox over Kevin Youkilis?

Right now I'm depressed about it, yes. Who knows going forward? It seems so imprudent that I wonder if it means that they know Ells isn't coming back anytime soon and they've given up on the post-season. Anyway, I bought an ereader recently and am enjoying reading more than I have in years, so I may not watch every damned game going forward if Youks is gone. (Only so many hours in the day.) It's going to suck unimaginably much if/when Gonzalez is injured right after the trade.

As for tonight, I'd like them to win, especially b/c I don't like that Lawrie kid. Does he pronounce his name Lowrie, by the way, or does everyone in MLB have it wrong?

[Toe Nash]

Last I checked Will Middlebrooks was slugging .579 and we were playing Gonzalez in right field so that he or Youk didn't have to sit. In no way is trading Youk "giving up on the post-season."

[derekson]

Right now I'm depressed about it, yes. Who knows going forward? It seems so imprudent that I wonder if it means that they know Ells isn't coming back anytime soon and they've given up on the post-season. Anyway, I bought an ereader recently and am enjoying reading more than I have in years, so I may not watch every damned game going forward if Youks is gone. (Only so many hours in the day.) It's going to suck unimaginably much if/when Gonzalez is injured right after the trade.

As for tonight, I'd like them to win, especially b/c I don't like that Lawrie kid. Does he pronounce his name Lowrie, by the way, or does everyone in MLB have it wrong?

The pronunciation I've heard more often is like "lorry", including by Toronto's broadcasters who I'd assume have asked him about it.

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Youkilis not in the lineup...

1. Scott Podsednik (L) CF
2. Daniel Nava (S) LF
3. Adrian Gonzalez (L) 1B
4. David Ortiz (L) DH
5. Jarrod Saltalamacchia (S) C
6. Will Middlebrooks ® 3B
7. Ryan Sweeney (L) RF
8. Mike Aviles ® SS
9. Nick Punto (S) 2B

[soxhop411]

Youkilis not in the lineup...

1. Scott Podsednik (L) CF
2. Daniel Nava (S) LF
3. Adrian Gonzalez (L) 1B
4. David Ortiz (L) DH
5. Jarrod Saltalamacchia (S) C
6. Will Middlebrooks ® 3B
7. Ryan Sweeney (L) RF
8. Mike Aviles ® SS
9. Nick Punto (S) 2B

I remember BV/BC saying that youk would get a day off in one of the TOR games, and that its a rotation at 3B, Since they don't want A-gon playing the OF on astro turf

[Al Zarilla]

I remember BV/BC saying that youk would get a day off in one of the TOR games, and that its a rotation at 3B, Since they don't want A-gon playing the OF on astro turf

You just saved a whole lot of crazy speculation. Although it's probably much too early for serious trade talk, if any.

[Frank, Fenway]

Put Pedroia on the DL, Pedro Ciriaco to SS, Aviles to 2B. Roll Punto up in a rug and throw him off a bridge. Or just hit him with a car.

[soxhop411]

Put Pedroia on the DL, Pedro Ciriaco to SS, Aviles to 2B. Roll Punto up in a rug and throw him off a bridge. Or just hit him with a car.

Or just punt him to another team. *ducks*

[trekfan55]

Put Pedroia on the DL, Pedro Ciriaco to SS, Aviles to 2B. Roll Punto up in a rug and throw him off a bridge. Or just hit him with a car.

IF (huge IF) Pedroia can play on Tuesday then maybe it's worth it not to put him on the DL, and maybe not even then. This guy will play hurt if necssary and while that is usually a good thing, it may not be what he needs to do.

The interesting thing is that to call up Ciriaco (doesn't he play 2nd already?) they need to make a 40 man move.

And edit to add: According to Tripadvisor, Niagara Falls are a 1.5 hor drive from Toronto, can they drop Punto there?

Edited by trekfan55, 01 June 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[AimingForYoko]

Put Pedroia on the DL, Pedro Ciriaco to SS, Aviles to 2B. Roll Punto up in a rug and throw him off a bridge. Or just hit him with a car.

I vote they fake his suicide. Who would really notice anyway?

Also, go on the damn DL already Pedey.

Edited by AimingForYoko, 01 June 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

Henderson Alvarez has the lowest K/9 ratio of any starter at 2.6 (Derek Lowe is second). He's second to Derek Lowe in GB outs. He's pitched far better on the road, opponents hit about 30 points higher off Alvarez at home over his career (astro truf has to do a number GB pitchers).

In two starts against Boston, he's winless but he's also been able to stymie the Sox ( .190/ .227/ .333). That's the best success he's had against anyone.

Here's hoping to turning the tables on Alvarez.

Edited by greek_gawd_of_walks, 01 June 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[koufax37]

Right now I'm depressed about it, yes. Who knows going forward? It seems so imprudent that I wonder if it means that they know Ells isn't coming back anytime soon and they've given up on the post-season. Anyway, I bought an ereader recently and am enjoying reading more than I have in years, so I may not watch every damned game going forward if Youks is gone. (Only so many hours in the day.) It's going to suck unimaginably much if/when Gonzalez is injured right after the trade.

As for tonight, I'd like them to win, especially b/c I don't like that Lawrie kid. Does he pronounce his name Lowrie, by the way, or does everyone in MLB have it wrong?

Nothing imprudent about it as a concept. He clearly doesn't fit in to the long term plans unless you have other moves to suggest, or view WMB as not being a better long term alternative at 3B.

So the first big questions is how close is WMB to being ready to take over full time and a better player than Youk? Here there is room for debate, but he certainly has impressed early while Youk has shown signs of his age and frailty. You could certainly make a case that Youk will be a more valuable 3B than WMB over the rest of 2012, or that for depth an injury protection having three people for two positions (1B and 3B) and the other come off the bench or stashed in AAA is prudent. I don't think there is a reasonable claim that playing all three is prudent or will continue after our outfielders start to return.

The second question is if we can get more value to this team's 2012 winning by trading him than keeping him, and if not does the value we get for 2013 and beyond make it reasonable to give up a moderate amount of 2012 value. Here it depends on what you think Youk is worth in terms of: 1) being better than WMB, 2) Playing all three short term, 3) having depth. I think there is a strong argument that his value is definitely positive, but is not significant barring a major injury to WMB or A-Gon.

So I don't think it is that far fetched to think that another team will value him more and be willing to give up pieces that make us stronger this year. And I think it is a near certainty that another team will value him enough to add to our 2013+ value more than Youk (or his inevitable departure) would.

So I see a lot of wiggle room where trading Youk can be useful to us in 2012, as long as it isn't anything resembling a Scutaro dump, and instead is getting a player of real value back. Given that we also have two good RHRP stuck in Pawtucket and another (Bailey) soon returning, we could also package someone like Albers with Youk to gain back a more valuable chip in the process.

[koufax37]

Put Pedroia on the DL, Pedro Ciriaco to SS, Aviles to 2B. Roll Punto up in a rug and throw him off a bridge. Or just hit him with a car.

If we DL Pedroia, Ciriaco takes his roster spot and Punto doesn't have to go anywhere until we add another infielder. If you want to throw him off a bridge, just call up Ciriaco and release him.

This spring, despite his success, I didn't think Ciriaco would be likely to outperform Punto, and I didn't mind Punto on our bench and picking up innings at different positions when games were out of hand (rather than spot starts), but now I doubt the validity of that.

Punto is getting a lot of "hard to get timing down when you don't play", but he is getting more games and ABs than last year, even without this Pedroia situation, so I don't think that is reasonable.

He looks so hopelessly lost and incompetent at the plate, much worse than a .650 OPS in 3000+ MLB Plate Appearances, and if it isn't the fault of sporadic playing, and it isn't the fault of injury or age (he is 34 and could be declining), then I would expect him to regress to being a 650 OPS guy, and improve from his current slump if he stays as our bench utility guy for the rest of the season. So to me that is the bar that Ciriaco has to get over, not the current 400 OPS slumping Punto.

So do you think that Ciriaco is likely to be a 650+ utility backup / short term starter? In his nearly 1000 PAs in triple-A he has failed to get to that level, so I am doubtful that he is likely to get to that level suddenly in the majors (even though in his 40ABs he has exceeded it). I would like plan C (or Lowrie back or Pedroia staying off the DL or Iglesias healthy), because I think that a sucky .650 MLB guy is likely to outperform the .635 Triple-A guy in 2012. I can't believe I just made an argument in favor of Punto over Ciriaco, but I'll stand by it. Maybe if Pedroia is DL'd a spark of young Ciriaco could outperform a slumping old Punto, but I don't think it too reasonable to expect Ciriaco to be clearly better than Punto offensively over the course of 2012.

[koufax37]

And back to the game at hand, I like our chances with the lefty heavy lineup we have against the low-K sinkerballer on the fast turf. I expect that will slightly be offset by some aggressive shifting with the bases empty, but hopefully we can get enough runners to keep them honest and get those fast grounders finding holes.

[E5 Yaz]

Sad day for Clay

Dick Beals, the voice behind Speedy Alka-Seltzer and the original voice of Gumby, has died at the age of 85. Beals died Tuesday in Vista, Calif., in north San Diego county, according to the Los Angeles Times.

Beals served as the original voice for the lead character on "The Gumby Show" in the 1950s and also voiced the role of Davey on the "Davey and Goliath" TV series in the 1960s.

[LeoCarrillo]

Niagara Falls are a 1.5 hor drive from Toronto, can they drop Punto there?

No Photoshop skillz to do this full justice, but just because the conceit is uber-awesome.

Barrel o' Punto:

[jnlevetoncnmt]

Put Pedroia on the DL, Pedro Ciriaco to SS, Aviles to 2B. Roll Punto up in a rug and throw him off a bridge. Or just hit him with a car.

Well sir, it's this rug I had. It really tied the room together.

[LeoCarrillo]

Well-stated summation on Youk trade, Koufax. And given the wealth of players coming off the DL, following the draft, Ben really has zero to do but shop Youk for a couple pitchers -- say, a quality rental and a high-ceiling future guy.

Get creative. You've got two months.

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 01 June 2012 - 04:27 PM.

[topps148]

Re: Punto.

I suspect Cherington just had a hearing problem. He heard that Nick had "grit." The actual word was grits
(For anyone who clicks the link, the "interview" ends and music begins at 0:22. The music ends and Conan reappears at 3:52.)

Personal aside: I was driving down highway 61 (yeah, THAT highway 61) in northeast Arkansas in 1982(?) when Little Milton's tour bus blew past me. The lettering on the rear of the bus said "Walking the Back Streets and Crying." Since the bus had to be doing 70, I'm pretty sure there was no walking involved.

I'd be good if there was no walking involved in Buchholz' start tonight, either.

[InsideTheParker]

barring a major injury to WMB or A-Gon

Apart for my affection for Youkilis (I like the irascibility most of you can't stand), this is my concern. I expect that Lars would come up for an injury to Gonzalez. But isn't he as "injury prone" as Youks? Who would play 3B if Middlebrooks were injured? DON'T SAY PUNTO! Perhaps the minors are full of excellent 3Bmen that I don't know about. Educate me. Or do you imagine Youks being traded for a passel of players, including an infielder back-up type?

[Darnell's Son]

I vote they fake his suicide. Who would really notice anyway?

Also, go on the damn DL already Pedey.

Mauf's son?

[Sprowl]

Right now I'm depressed about it, yes. Who knows going forward? It seems so imprudent that I wonder if it means that they know Ells isn't coming back anytime soon and they've given up on the post-season. Anyway, I bought an ereader recently and am enjoying reading more than I have in years, so I may not watch every damned game going forward if Youks is gone. (Only so many hours in the day.) It's going to suck unimaginably much if/when Gonzalez is injured right after the trade.

Youkilis will always be one of my all-time favorite Red Sox, because of 2007, Youkscoops, one of the 25, Greek godhood, It gets better, and loads of character (roughly in that order). I don't care whether his teammates like him: I always will.

That said, he'll look just fine in the rearview mirror too, if the return is impressive enough. Youkilis may have a better chance of getting back to the World Series on the Dodgers.

If Gonzalez gets injured, the Lars Era may be upon us.

[SouthernBoSox]

God damned Nick Punto.

[Foulkey Reese]

I picture Nick Punto as this lonely guy living in a ratty studio apartment with a few sickly cats.

Nothing anybody says can change that.

[AimingForYoko]

I picture Nick Punto as this lonely guy living in a ratty studio apartment with a few sickly cats.

Nothing anybody says can change that.

Why you gotta bring the cats into this?

Poor kitties.

[TheoShmeo]

It's really a cruel joke they they have to turn themselves into pretzels to get Adrian, Youks and WMD in the line-up at the same time, they can't pull that off in Toronto and perhaps the worst hitter we've seen in a Red Sox uniform since Craig Grebeck is likely to start all three games this weekend.

That's almost as twisted as an NBA ref seeing a defender hit an opposing player on the head during a drive and not calling a foul on the play. Or maybe it's even worse than that.

[E5 Yaz]

That's almost as twisted as an NBA ref seeing a defender hit an opposing player on the head during a drive and not calling a foul on the play. Or maybe it's even worse than that.

Where's that fall on the NFL player catching a pass with his helmet scale?

[InsideTheParker]

I picture Nick Punto as this lonely guy living in a ratty studio apartment with a few sickly cats.

Nothing anybody says can change that.

His wife and two kids hate your guts, you know.

[TheoShmeo]

Where's that fall on the NFL player catching a pass with his helmet scale?

Funny, or sadly, I was thinking about that too as I hit send. And a ball going through a sure handed cornerback's hands. And Brady and Welker failing to connect when the latter was fairly wide open.

Pardon me while I look for an especially hard wall to ram my head into.

[E5 Yaz]

Funny, or sadly, I was thinking about that too as I hit send. And a ball going through a sure handed cornerback's hands. And Brady and Welker failing to connect when the latter was fairly wide open.

Too many men on the ice?

[AimingForYoko]

His wife and two kids hate your guts, you know.

Why? It's not Foulkey's fault they're related to Punto.

[koufax37]

Apart for my affection for Youkilis (I like the irascibility most of you can't stand), this is my concern. I expect that Lars would come up for an injury to Gonzalez. But isn't he as "injury prone" as Youks? Who would play 3B if Middlebrooks were injured? DON'T SAY PUNTO! Perhaps the minors are full of excellent 3Bmen that I don't know about. Educate me. Or do you imagine Youks being traded for a passel of players, including an infielder back-up type?

That is a very valid argument, and certainly a concern. As the Pedroia situation has illustrated, our infield depth is very unimpressive, and picking a no hit utility backup in Punto is a risk, because he is so ill adapted to do more if needed. Lowrie instead of Punto (Melancon aside) and you feel comfortable with him being a starter at any of the three infield positions if injury dictates it. Dumping Lowrie and Scutaro and signing Punto put us in a situation where we don't have any depth in the middle infield, and giving up Youkilis would do the same to the corners.

To answer more specifically, I would have Iglesias at shortstop and Aviles at 3B in WMB hurt scenario, but that is what I would have said about Pedroia's injury before finding out that Iglesias was not available to answer the bell. And Lars/Lavarnway/4th Outfielder when we get the good ones back for A-Gon injury, and am less alarmed about that.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Why you gotta bring the cats into this?

Poor kitties.

Don't worry... even if he gets angry and tries, he won't come close to hitting them.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 01 June 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[Hendu's Gait]

It's really a cruel joke they they have to turn themselves into pretzels to get Adrian, Youks and WMD in the line-up at the same time, they can't pull that off in Toronto and perhaps the worst hitter we've seen in a Red Sox uniform since Craig Grebeck is likely to start all three games this weekend.

That's almost as twisted as an NBA ref seeing a defender hit an opposing player on the head during a drive and not calling a foul on the play. Or maybe it's even worse than that.

Please don't insult Craig Grebeck like that. He has a healthy 32 point SLG lead, career-wise, on Punto. Grebeck's RS stats are SSS.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Put Pedroia on the DL, Pedro Ciriaco to SS, Aviles to 2B. Roll Punto up in a rug and throw him off a bridge. Or just hit him with a car.

I vote for: wrap him in a rug, then hit him with a car off a bridge.

[judyb]

Too many men on the ice?

You two done turning a perfectly good game thread into a house of horrors yet?

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

Like Pods going the other way there. Good approach.

[AimingForYoko]

Where is everyone?

Getting a head-start on their drinking for the C's game?

[Nomar813]

It's hard to strike out against Alvarez, but Adrian's up to the challenge.

[koufax37]

This kid with the glasses is 24 outs away from getting his name in the paper...

[koufax37]

They read Girardi's blog and are going multiple signs with the bases empty...need to figure out Salty's signs in a hurry to know what is going on.

Damn...Remy said it before I clicked Post

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

The Red Sox are back.