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Game 2 of the ECF


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#2001 fairlee76

  • 1,603 posts

Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:49 PM

The way things have gone lately, we'll probably get good KG in Game 3. If we got good KG tonight, this would have been an 8-10 point win. He missed so many open looks, was incredibly slow on rotations, and couldn't rebound to save his life. Basically, it was 2010 Game 7 all over again.

And this is what upsets me. Decent KG = win tonight. Who cares what KG shows up in Game 3...this team is not built to win after going down 2 - 0 in spite of an historic performance by Rondo.


(Praying I am wrong.)

#2002 ilol@u

  • 1,813 posts

Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:56 PM

Ugh, I still can't believe the big 3 era is going to come to a close like this. If the Heat outplayed us, that would be somewhat acceptable. But watching Pierce, Rondo, KG all try their hardest and putting so much passion into their play and having it wasted by officials make me sick.

Unlike the other 2 major sports, I'm a fan of the Celtics, but not the NBA.

#2003 BigSoxFan


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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:57 PM

In his last 8 playoff games, LeBron has been whistled for 9 fouls. 9. In 345 minutes of floor time. For one of the most aggressive defenders in the NBA.

:bahgawd:

#2004 CaptainLaddie


  • dj paul pfieffer


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:03 AM

Ugh, I still can't believe the big 3 era is going to come to a close like this. If the Heat outplayed us, that would be somewhat acceptable. But watching Pierce, Rondo, KG all try their hardest and putting so much passion into their play and having it wasted by officials make me sick.

Unlike the other 2 major sports, I'm a fan of the Celtics, but not the NBA.

Ain't that the truth. I'll watch any NFL or MLB game and know I'll enjoy it. I can't enjoy NBA games.

#2005 lars10

  • 2,005 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:03 AM

because I think it is horrible both ways. We as Celtics fans always notice the calls that are missed against our team. I bet if you go to a Miami fan board (does that even exist???) they see a bunch of missed calls on their side as well.


the general problem with your 'argument' is when you actually look at the game and the number of fouls called and on who.

just so we know..you're generally ignoring the 33-18 foul disparity..just cause that's 'celtic's fan bias' and surely the refs missed some calls on the celtics..that's what you're saying.

Edited by lars10, 31 May 2012 - 12:05 AM.


#2006 CaptainLaddie


  • dj paul pfieffer


  • 23,114 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:05 AM

the general problem with your 'argument' is when you actually look at the game and the number of fouls called and on who.

Logic!

#2007 BoSoxFink


  • Stripes


  • 4,789 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:16 AM

the general problem with your 'argument' is when you actually look at the game and the number of fouls called and on who.

just so we know..you're generally ignoring the 33-18 foul disparity..just cause that's 'celtic's fan bias' and surely the refs missed some calls on the celtics..that's what you're saying.

No I'm not ignoring it at all, but the way everyone complains you would think every NBA game should be like 25-25 on foul calls, when in reality that is never really plausible.


#2008 Jed Zeppelin


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:29 AM

In his last 8 playoff games, LeBron has been whistled for 9 fouls. 9. In 345 minutes of floor time. For one of the most aggressive defenders in the NBA.

:bahgawd:


He averages a hair under two fouls per game for his career. He is whistled for a foul once every 20 minutes of game time. Compare that to Pierce at a foul every 13 minutes, Kobe at 14, Wade at 14.7, Melo at 12, Battier at 13.8. Lebron even far outpaces a guy like Ray Allen (one every 16 minutes) who was never asked to play much D until he got to Boston.It's a quick and dirty list and it's not perfect or scientific by any means. The old eyeball test says he should probably get more fouls called on him, even if he is the best defensive player in the entire league, hell, even if he is historically good at defense. I'm certainly willing to consider that he might be, but looking at the numbers I still feel very comfortable in saying that he is protected by the officials.

#2009 MannyRam

  • 578 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:34 AM

From Twitter:

#celtics VP of basketball ops Danny Ainge and Asst GM Michael Zarren had an animated convo with NBA VP of Referee Ops Joe Borgia after game

#2010 Ed Hillel


  • Wants to be startin somethin


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:48 AM

He averages a hair under two fouls per game for his career. He is whistled for a foul once every 20 minutes of game time. Compare that to Pierce at a foul every 13 minutes, Kobe at 14, Wade at 14.7, Melo at 12, Battier at 13.8. Lebron even far outpaces a guy like Ray Allen (one every 16 minutes) who was never asked to play much D until he got to Boston.It's a quick and dirty list and it's not perfect or scientific by any means. The old eyeball test says he should probably get more fouls called on him, even if he is the best defensive player in the entire league, hell, even if he is historically good at defense. I'm certainly willing to consider that he might be, but looking at the numbers I still feel very comfortable in saying that he is protected by the officials.


Honestly, I thought he and Pierce played roughly equal defense tonight, and you saw the results.

#2011 scottyno

  • 2,932 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:53 AM

I was at a sportsbar with friends so couldn't hear the announcers talking or really have any idea of the flow of the game whistle wise. Then I get home and see that it was 33-18 and 47-29 fts, and the heat also shot 10 more 3s, so pretty much the reffing was god awful in the heat favor?

#2012 lars10

  • 2,005 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:59 AM

No I'm not ignoring it at all, but the way everyone complains you would think every NBA game should be like 25-25 on foul calls, when in reality that is never really plausible.

you keep changing the goalposts. regardless..with tonight's game whatever your final argument is going to be..is you're wrong.

and I don't actually think that everyone argues for 25-25...but not the FUCKING ridiculous disparity it is every FUCKING game!!!!

Edited by lars10, 31 May 2012 - 01:03 AM.


#2013 lars10

  • 2,005 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:07 AM

Here's all I want really. For the Celtics to play the Heat on a level playing field. Let both teams play exactly the same way with the exact same types of calls (fouls, travels, techs etc) called both ways... Like an even Fucking contest for a whole 7 game series....and then see who wins. I'm perfectly willing to believe the Heat are better...but this particular Heat team has been gifted more wins than any other I can remember in the history of the NBA..and that's what pisses me off. They're a great/goodish team... they don't deserve or need the extra bull shit on top of that. just let them play and win..that's all i want.. the NBA shouldn't have to give this team every freakin game. They should be better than that...and that's my problem with the NBA.

#2014 scottyno

  • 2,932 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:10 AM

After scrolling back a few pages and seeing Rondo get face-raped with no call, I hope someone takes Wade's head off next game, I almost don't care about winning anymore, I want blood

#2015 The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

  • 4,198 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:09 AM

From Twitter:

#celtics VP of basketball ops Danny Ainge and Asst GM Michael Zarren had an animated convo with NBA VP of Referee Ops Joe Borgia after game


Big deal.

We know how this will turn out. Boston might benefit from some calls in Game 3. At worst the game will be called straight and they may win. Maybe.

But like was said earlier, Miami may win this series, but they showed they got nothing beyond star power, they ain't winning shit afterward against San Antonio, however hard Stern tries to turn South Beach into the next Chicago-like dynasty.

#2016 BucketOBalls


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:44 AM

Big deal.

We know how this will turn out. Boston might benefit from some calls in Game 3. At worst the game will be called straight and they may win. Maybe.

But like was said earlier, Miami may win this series, but they showed they got nothing beyond star power, they ain't winning shit afterward against San Antonio, however hard Stern tries to turn South Beach into the next Chicago-like dynasty.


It's not like the C's were gonna stop San Antonio either. But yeah, it would have been nice to win this series. This game is probably it. I don't think they can waste an effort like this game and still win the series. When stuff comes together they need to take advantage of it. Oh well. Not sure they get another break this series.

#2017 BigSoxFan


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:08 AM

It's not like the C's were gonna stop San Antonio either. But yeah, it would have been nice to win this series. This game is probably it. I don't think they can waste an effort like this game and still win the series. When stuff comes together they need to take advantage of it. Oh well. Not sure they get another break this series.


The Celtics should be 1-1 going back to Boston. At a minimum, this series would have gone 6. Now, it likely doesn't get past 4 or 5.

#2018 Stu Nahan

  • 3,885 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:48 AM

Still pissed about that travesty last night.

#2019 Brotune

  • 69 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:49 AM

First post, been lurking here for many years and it seems like I know some of you guys from this thread and the Sox game thread.....but I was so disheartened by the occurrences on and off the court that I felt compelled to sign up and vent a bit.

I feel absolutely sick about the last two games, not only as a Celtic fan, but a fan of the NBA. I just feel that the NBA is treating me like an asshole. Stern destroys the trade of Chris Paul to the Lakers, controversy ensues but is quickly forgotten about. Fast forward to these last two days and I've seen things that really freakin' bother me. I'm shocked beyond belief that Dan Crawford is allowed on the court, let alone reffing playoff games after the Mavs debacles and connections with Donaghy. How does this happen? It's like the league is shoving it in our face. 5 Technical fouls, no biggie right? Right? It's just pissy Celtic fans crying again. Then last night happens with the atrocious disparity and blatant non calls and I'm supposed to just sit and smile and say things like "Well, that's the NBA for ya, I guess Miami was just driving to the basket more. Ayup." THEN, the results of the Draft Lottery came in. Ok, come on now, you gotta be fucking with me at this point right? And we as a loyal fanbase are just supposed to sit here and watch this absolute corruption take place? Am I alone with this thinking?

To make matters worse, I'm watching Sportscenter after the game and the top ten plays come up. One of the plays is the Wade karate kick layup. The fuck face announcer actually says during the clip "Ha ha, here's Wades MMA style lay up, ha ha ha." They're fucking laughing at us, the league is laughing at us. Fuck them. I'm tired of being treated like the typical mouth breather posting on youtube. I love the Celtics, I've been with them for over 35 years, but I'm not just a fan of the uniform, but also the game. You know, there's part of me that is so fucking happy that this may be the twilight years of the current big three, as the league has become a fucking joke and this joke of a league doesn't deserve classic warriors like KG, Allen, Pierce, and Rondo.

Fuck you Stern, no really FUCK YOU.

Edited by Brotune, 31 May 2012 - 07:51 AM.


#2020 notfar

  • 965 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:06 AM

Here's all I want really. For the Celtics to play the Heat on a level playing field. Let both teams play exactly the same way with the exact same types of calls (fouls, travels, techs etc) called both ways... Like an even Fucking contest for a whole 7 game series....and then see who wins. I'm perfectly willing to believe the Heat are better...but this particular Heat team has been gifted more wins than any other I can remember in the history of the NBA..and that's what pisses me off. They're a great/goodish team... they don't deserve or need the extra bull shit on top of that. just let them play and win..that's all i want.. the NBA shouldn't have to give this team every freakin game. They should be better than that...and that's my problem with the NBA.


perfect summary

#2021 ifmanis5


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:29 AM

From Twitter:

#celtics VP of basketball ops Danny Ainge and Asst GM Michael Zarren had an animated convo with NBA VP of Referee Ops Joe Borgia after game

It's sad that this is their only recourse.

The NBA has taken the star treatment to absurd levels. Last night was beyond the ridiculous.

#2022 JohnnyTheBone

  • 4,176 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:54 AM

First post, been lurking here for many years and it seems like I know some of you guys from this thread and the Sox game thread.....but I was so disheartened by the occurrences on and off the court that I felt compelled to sign up and vent a bit.

I feel absolutely sick about the last two games, not only as a Celtic fan, but a fan of the NBA. I just feel that the NBA is treating me like an asshole. Stern destroys the trade of Chris Paul to the Lakers, controversy ensues but is quickly forgotten about. Fast forward to these last two days and I've seen things that really freakin' bother me. I'm shocked beyond belief that Dan Crawford is allowed on the court, let alone reffing playoff games after the Mavs debacles and connections with Donaghy. How does this happen? It's like the league is shoving it in our face. 5 Technical fouls, no biggie right? Right? It's just pissy Celtic fans crying again. Then last night happens with the atrocious disparity and blatant non calls and I'm supposed to just sit and smile and say things like "Well, that's the NBA for ya, I guess Miami was just driving to the basket more. Ayup." THEN, the results of the Draft Lottery came in. Ok, come on now, you gotta be fucking with me at this point right? And we as a loyal fanbase are just supposed to sit here and watch this absolute corruption take place? Am I alone with this thinking?

To make matters worse, I'm watching Sportscenter after the game and the top ten plays come up. One of the plays is the Wade karate kick layup. The fuck face announcer actually says during the clip "Ha ha, here's Wades MMA style lay up, ha ha ha." They're fucking laughing at us, the league is laughing at us. Fuck them. I'm tired of being treated like the typical mouth breather posting on youtube. I love the Celtics, I've been with them for over 35 years, but I'm not just a fan of the uniform, but also the game. You know, there's part of me that is so fucking happy that this may be the twilight years of the current big three, as the league has become a fucking joke and this joke of a league doesn't deserve classic warriors like KG, Allen, Pierce, and Rondo.

Fuck you Stern, no really FUCK YOU.


Welcome, Brotune. That is a hell of a first post. You articulated the rage that I'm feeling much better than I could have done. I just sent an email to a friend who asked me about last night's game, and I said I was insulted. That's how I feel. Insulted.

#2023 Section15Box113

  • 3,550 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:00 AM

It's sad that this is their only recourse.

The NBA has taken the star treatment to absurd levels. Last night was beyond the ridiculous.


Just kills me that PP (6 PF), Garnett (4 PF + tech), and Rondo (3 PF + hideous non-call) do not seem to get star treatment.

Would be a lot easier to say "it is what it is" if it went both ways.



Edit: yep, insulted is a pretty good word for how I'm feeling.

Edited by Section15Box113, 31 May 2012 - 09:12 AM.


#2024 PC Drunken Friar

  • 3,578 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:53 AM

Insulted is a great word for this. BSF, you are a moron. What sucks is that the Celtics played such a great game, and the refs KEPT IT CLOSE! Thats the key. Called straight up, the C's win, going away. Its like the only way to beat the Heat is to have a double digit lead the entire game. Once the Heat got back into it in the 3rd quarter, the refs started giving them the calls. Give them credit for getting back into the game if you want, but w/e, fuck this league.

#2025 AimingForYoko


  • SoSH Member


  • 14,335 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:03 AM

First post, been lurking here for many years and it seems like I know some of you guys from this thread and the Sox game thread.....but I was so disheartened by the occurrences on and off the court that I felt compelled to sign up and vent a bit.

I feel absolutely sick about the last two games, not only as a Celtic fan, but a fan of the NBA. I just feel that the NBA is treating me like an asshole. Stern destroys the trade of Chris Paul to the Lakers, controversy ensues but is quickly forgotten about. Fast forward to these last two days and I've seen things that really freakin' bother me. I'm shocked beyond belief that Dan Crawford is allowed on the court, let alone reffing playoff games after the Mavs debacles and connections with Donaghy. How does this happen? It's like the league is shoving it in our face. 5 Technical fouls, no biggie right? Right? It's just pissy Celtic fans crying again. Then last night happens with the atrocious disparity and blatant non calls and I'm supposed to just sit and smile and say things like "Well, that's the NBA for ya, I guess Miami was just driving to the basket more. Ayup." THEN, the results of the Draft Lottery came in. Ok, come on now, you gotta be fucking with me at this point right? And we as a loyal fanbase are just supposed to sit here and watch this absolute corruption take place? Am I alone with this thinking?

To make matters worse, I'm watching Sportscenter after the game and the top ten plays come up. One of the plays is the Wade karate kick layup. The fuck face announcer actually says during the clip "Ha ha, here's Wades MMA style lay up, ha ha ha." They're fucking laughing at us, the league is laughing at us. Fuck them. I'm tired of being treated like the typical mouth breather posting on youtube. I love the Celtics, I've been with them for over 35 years, but I'm not just a fan of the uniform, but also the game. You know, there's part of me that is so fucking happy that this may be the twilight years of the current big three, as the league has become a fucking joke and this joke of a league doesn't deserve classic warriors like KG, Allen, Pierce, and Rondo.

Fuck you Stern, no really FUCK YOU.


Welcome!

And bravo!

And the bolded part of your post is so fucking true I am furious. Some poster asked how anyone could respect or like Lebron more than Wade-well that's fucking how. Lebron is a bitch but Wade is one of the dirtiest players in the modern era. He throws elbows like he's rapping to a Ludacris song. And Reggie Miller would be jealous of his kicks. But that's "his style". Uh huh, playing filthy is now "playing hard" and a "style". I guess it is when your name is Dwayne Wade.

And before Felger or who the fuck ever mentions "star players getting the calls"; there's getting calls and then there's blatantly ignoring the fucking rule book. All I want and all I'm sure most of us want is a level fucking playing field where the refs call a foul for RAJON BEING GOUGED IN THE FUCKING FACE.

But no, Stern will hide and fine anyone who even thinks about criticizing his boys because there's absolutely nothing wrong in the sport. Everything is fair and his refs run around like fucking gods because they're good at their jobs (not because Stern protects them from all the mean and nasty people in the world).

FUCK. I'm too angry for this and my head still hurts. I'm going back to bed.

#2026 greek_gawd_of_walks


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:42 AM

I said it before. The Celts were probably going to lose this series. I just wanted them to do it all on their own.

I get joy from watching the Red Sox, win or lose. I can't say that about the Celts, or more accurately put, the NBA. When they win, it's a relief. When they lose, I'm inconsolable. The officiating has a huge bearing on that.

#2027 BigSoxFan


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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:29 AM

I said it before. The Celts were probably going to lose this series. I just wanted them to do it all on their own.

I get joy from watching the Red Sox, win or lose. I can't say that about the Celts, or more accurately put, the NBA. When they win, it's a relief. When they lose, I'm inconsolable. The officiating has a huge bearing on that.


This is how I feel. The Celtics aren't as good as the Heat. We all know that. But they definitely are good enough to give the Heat a very tough 6 or 7 game series. They still might. But last night's game probably robbed us of being able to watch a potentially-awesome Game 6 at the Garden with everything on the line. Or even a Game 7 in Miami where LeBron would be extra tight, which is always fun to watch.

#2028 jp9183

  • 111 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:39 AM

I could see a 1999 Red Sox - Yankees reaction if Games 3 and 4 stay the way games 1 and 2 have

#2029 JohnnyTheBone

  • 4,176 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:47 AM

This is how I feel. The Celtics aren't as good as the Heat.


I'm not willing to concede this. At all.

#2030 ifmanis5


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  • 11,918 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:07 PM

Insulted is a pretty good way of describing it. Kicked in the junk is another.

The NBA and FC Heat better be ready for, shall we say, an intense fan experience for game 3. The crowd is going to be out for blood...

Think of that scene in Casualties of War...

I'd be pissed off. I'd be looking for payback!



#2031 Scriblerus

  • 392 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:17 PM

The smugness of Wade is disgusting. He knows that he will not be called out, and he knows that when the game is analyzed later, the media will make excuse after excuse for his dirty play.

At this point, I would be satisfied if for one game, the refs didn't call fouls on flops, and called Wade for his fouls and the inevitable technicals when he argues, pouts, and shows up the refs. I don't even care about all the travels and carrying the ball turn-overs. He would probably be out by halftime.

It would be even sweeter if he was fined for the inevitable post-game rant, but I don't want to be greedy.

Now back to reality...

#2032 Solder

  • 146 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:38 PM

Good to see Danny is pissed off, but I really don't want to get calls tomorrow night to balance the scales in the eyes of the refs. If it goes that way, we're absolutely losing the series based on homecourt alone.

The general manager of the Boston Celtics was trying to understand how LeBron James could get to the free-throw line those 24 times, and so Danny Ainge stood in the hallway recreating a clear-path foul call for the NBA's vice president of referee operations, Joe Borgia. Ainge slid his feet, and tried to show how the Celtics defender had reached around to the Miami Heat star, how they were far too close to the rim for that call.

"How?" Ainge asked him.

They did some kind of a dance here late Wednesday night, Borgia and Ainge, the NBA official delivering his explanation, and Ainge, the ultimate contrarian, challenging the premises. And hey, how could Paul Pierce foul out again? How could the Heat get to the free-throw line 47 times? These were the things on Ainge's mind, and there would be no satisfaction coming out of here for these Celtics, no solace out of an epic effort and a historic performance out of Rajon Rondo. Ainge was persistent, polite and Borgia finally relented that he'd watch the film of the Heat's 115-111 Game 2 overtime victory.

"I'm sure we missed five or six calls somewhere," Borgia said.


Edit: I put Borgia's response in Comic Sans MS, just to show how fucking stupid it is.

Edited by Solder, 31 May 2012 - 01:40 PM.


#2033 lars10

  • 2,005 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 03:23 PM

"I'm sure we missed five or six calls somewhere," Borgia said.

those five or six calls had nothing to do with the outcome of the game....right.

That clear path foul actually didn't seem to hurt the team too much..but I had no idea it was clear path that close to the basket..i mean they were at the freakin 3 point line. I'm sure that's not the intent of the rule.

I didn't realize that they went to the line 47 times...that's just insane. The Heat didn't deserve to get back in that game let alone win.

I don't want to win because of calls either, but Boston deserves to have won at least one of the games in Miami. The Celts even as beat up as they are have more heart and are actually probably better than this overblown team of superstars with no backbone and sense of entitlement... It's disgusting listening to analysts rave about this team..and finally nice to hear that there are some dissenting opinions among the media horde.

#2034 allaboutthesox

  • 2,656 posts

Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:17 PM

Just reading this last page of the thread has me pissed off again already. I hate the NBA so much. Such an inferior product overall when compared to other major sports.