95 replies to this topic

[fineyoungarm]

"That’s truly somebody flexing their muscles on the other side that really needs to put them in their back pocket and understand that they can’t hurt their own team by doing something like that."

To borrow as phrase from an old "National Lampoon" - Maddon's going to kill the Red Sox with his sense of humor - just like the USA did the Nazis and Japan in WW II.

Perhaps through use of a "fatal joke" as per Monty Python.

Edited by fineyoungarm, 26 May 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

When I say Joe Maddon and Luke Scott and any other TB asshole can get fucked by a cactus, I say it with the utmost sincerity.



I''m just glad crazy fucks like Padilla, Ace, and Beckett are on our side.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

soxhop411 passed this along in a PM:

[E5 Yaz]

Maddon vs Valenine reminds me of the opening of Broadcast News:

Maddon: You'll never make more than nineteen thousand dollars a year. Ha ha ha. Okay, take this: You'll never leave South Boston and I'm going to see the whole damn world. You'll never know the pleasure of writing a graceful sentence or having an original thought. Think about it.

Valentine: Nineteen thousand dollars...Not bad.

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I have no problem with Moore planting one on Gonzo. Don't call your shots. I thought that was common sense?

I also have no problem with them hitting Pedey (if they did it on purpose).

I have no problem with the Sox going after Scott.

I have a problem with the two people least involved with the situation (Maddon, Valentine) trying to become the focus of the conversation. Managers call the shots, the pitchers are the trigger men, and then everyone denies everything.

What the fuck is going on here? Maddon and Valentine just need to fuck already.

[mrsbeasley]

I have no problem with Moore planting one on Gonzo. Don't call your shots. I thought that was common sense?

I also have no problem with them hitting Pedey (if they did it on purpose).

I have no problem with the Sox going after Scott.

I have a problem with the two people least involved with the situation (Maddon, Valentine) trying to become the focus of the conversation. Managers call the shots, the pitchers are the trigger men, and then everyone denies everything.

What the fuck is going on here? Maddon and Valentine just need to fuck already.

Gonzalez saying he was going to hit a home run had zero to do with the Rays and everything to do with the media going on and on with the questions about his lack of power this season. The Rays took something that had nothing to do with them and tried to use it as some rally to go after the big bad Red Sox...who ended up winning that game. The entire situation is ridiculous and would have been finished had Joe Maddon kept his yap shut and not have logged in to Twitter last night.

[fineyoungarm]

Maddon vs Valenine reminds me of the opening of Broadcast News:

Maddon: You'll never make more than nineteen thousand dollars a year. Ha ha ha. Okay, take this: You'll never leave South Boston and I'm going to see the whole damn world. You'll never know the pleasure of writing a graceful sentence or having an original thought. Think about it.

Valentine: Nineteen thousand dollars...Not bad.

LOL. Chances of something happening tonight (or tomorrow) about 5%. But if it does, it just might go beyond stretching each others' polyesther jerseys stage. (Too late to get Fisk on the 40 man roster and call him up? He looks like he can still handle himself and as though he is generally pissed off at just about everyone.)

Hate to admit it - but Maddon's smirk in the photo you posted is priceless. Something about his demeanor reminds me of Robert Duval.

Edited by fineyoungarm, 26 May 2012 - 01:26 PM.

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Gonzalez saying he was going to hit a home run had zero to do with the Rays and everything to do with the media going on and on with the questions about his lack of power this season. The Rays took something that had nothing to do with them and tried to use it as some rally to go after the big bad Red Sox...who ended up winning that game. The entire situation is ridiculous and would have been finished had Joe Maddon kept his yap shut and not have logged in to Twitter last night.

Meh.

I don't really think it matters why he said it. By saying "I'm going to hit a homerun tomorrow", he's calling his shots. Players calling their shots don't have to do with the other team, It has to do with ego.

"I'll start hitting homeruns. I'll hit one tomorrow." Is essentially saying "I don't care who's pitching tomorrow, I'm good enough that I'll hit a homerun because I want to." It's a perfectly good reason to get a 4-seam tattoo.

[YTF]

I'll take Bobby V being a smug little cunt over Madden's hammy outrage over a guy getting drilled when both teams have been drilling each other on purpose all year. These sorts of things can bring a team together. I'm not saying go out and hurt someone, but the Red Sox have no obligation to take any shit from the Tampa Bay Rays.

Agreed, but the SLC has a team that has played nearly 1/3 of it's games and can't break .500, has about about half a roster's worth of guys on the DL and doesn't have to stand in the batter's box and take one for the team this weekend. If one of his guys takes one in the face or shatters a hand over the next few days you think he's going to be so smug? STFU Bobby and just say what's expected in a circumstance like this. If there is such a thing as the high road, for fuck's sake take it.

[LeoCarrillo]

Meh.

I don't really think it matters why he said it. By saying "I'm going to hit a homerun tomorrow", he's calling his shots. Players calling their shots don't have to do with the other team, It has to do with ego.

"I'll start hitting homeruns. I'll hit one tomorrow." Is essentially saying "I don't care who's pitching tomorrow, I'm good enough that I'll hit a homerun because I want to." It's a perfectly good reason to get a 4-seam tattoo.

IIRC, it was really a get-off-my-ass throwaway quip to a dozen pesky wiener guys with notepads and digi-recorders. Like, jesus almighty, "I'll hit one tomorrow, okay." Now can I powder my crotch and get dressed already?

If Price and the Rays are using that as fighting words, then that's the lamest move in this whole l'affair.

[EvilEmpire]

Maddon complaining about his player getting hit intentionally is over the line? Really?

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I know URI covered this earlier but I suspect it - and forgive me for this - sailed over a few heads here. But are we really getting indignant over Sweet Caroline? The song is creepy and only appeals to Sox fans who need queues for everyday life activities or the narrow, tired few who see the societal benefits of older men coveting pre-pubescent girls.

And the difference between Maddon and Valentine is pretty stark here. One is clearly using enhanced Centrum while the other seems capable of spouting only basic pablum.

[bosockboy]

Not the song itself.....it was the act of mockery.

[deconstruction]

I know URI covered this earlier but I suspect it - and forgive me for this - sailed over a few heads here. But are we really getting indignant over Sweet Caroline? The song is creepy and only appeals to Sox fans who need queues for everyday life activities or the narrow, tired few who see the societal benefits of older men coveting pre-pubescent girls.

You just wanted a reason to say pubes. A couple of people seem annoyed, so I "suspect" the moronic opinion you're railing against is not a majority one.

[rembrat]

Maddon complaining about his player getting hit intentionally is over the line? Really?

Yes. I really don't remember Tito throwing a bitchfest every time Joba threw the ball at Youk's head. The only thing he might have said was "If that young man wanted our attention then he certainly has it," or something along those lines.

[EvilEmpire]

Yes. I really don't remember Tito throwing a bitchfest every time Joba threw the ball at Youk's head. The only thing he might have said was "If that young man wanted our attention then he certainly has it," or something along those lines.

Well to be fair, Tito seemed pretty laid back on things in general. And he probably thought Youkilis was a douche too. In fact, Valentine stirring shit up might be his way of getting Youkilis hit again. He doesn't like him anyway, and maybe if he gets banged up he'll be able to play Middlebrooks some more. Maybe Valentine is a genius after all.

[fineyoungarm]

Yes. I really don't remember Tito throwing a bitchfest every time Joba threw the ball at Youk's head. The only thing he might have said was "If that young man wanted our attention then he certainly has it," or something along those lines.

Then he secretly placed a curse on Chamberlain.

[dbn]

It's also been widely reported that Dauber grabbed or punched at someone's Hogan in the pileup in 2000.

The precedents:

2000 Pedro v. Gerald Williams, first0batter fight after which Pedro throws 1-hitter and Ks 13.
2005 Something with Aubrey Huff that's sorta whocares v. Arroyo
2006 "Julian Loses His Coolian" Tavarez v. Gathright, home-plate Julian punch in a spring training game.
2008 Coco v. Iwamura, spikes up a few years ago, leading to Coco v. Shields

Edit: fixed a date

I was at that game in St. Petersburg. It was kind of awesome watching Manny go yard one pitch after being obviously thrown at, Ortiz hitting a moonshot in a game his head was thrown at, and Trot Nixon's ejection replacement hitting a slam. I used to hate those Lou Piniella coached Devil Rays teams, much more than the current version.

[ngruz25]

I have a problem with the two people least involved with the situation (Maddon, Valentine) trying to become the focus of the conversation. Managers call the shots, the pitchers are the trigger men, and then everyone denies everything.

What the fuck is going on here? Maddon and Valentine just need to fuck already.

Isn't one of the manager's responsibilities to deflect attention from the players? If the media is hounding Valentine and Maddon instead of their players, the players don't have to deal with that distraction and can focus on the game instead.

Then again, it's a different situation when there is no story and the managers are stirring up trouble. I don't think that's what's happening here, though.

[bosockboy]

I was at that game in St. Petersburg. It was kind of awesome watching Manny go yard one pitch after being obviously thrown at, Ortiz hitting a moonshot in a game his head was thrown at, and Trot Nixon's ejection replacement hitting a slam. I used to hate those Lou Piniella coached Devil Rays teams, much more than the current version.

I was there too....I swear Papi's homer was the hardest hit ball I've ever seen. Agree on Piniella....as much as I hate Maddon it amuses me he was able to fix that franchise and Piniella wasn't.

[JohntheBaptist]

I know URI covered this earlier but I suspect it - and forgive me for this - sailed over a few heads here. But are we really getting indignant over Sweet Caroline? The song is creepy and only appeals to Sox fans who need queues for everyday life activities or the narrow, tired few who see the societal benefits of older men coveting pre-pubescent girls.

I mean, getting indignant over it at all is silly for sure but the idea isnt an attachment to the song as if its been violated--its that another organization took a song the Sox openly associate themselves with and used it to taunt them a bit. Again, hardly a big deal but come on, you know the reaction has nothing to do with the song itself. Teams don't often do that sort of thing, it gets your attention.

Anyone else remember the DBacks playing like three bars of "start spreadin the news" after beating nyy at home in one of the 01 ws games?

[URI]

Anyone else remember the DBacks playing like three bars of "start spreadin the news" after beating nyy at home in one of the 01 ws games?

I do remember that, it was so fucking awesome classless.

[JohntheBaptist]

I do remember that, it was so fucking awesome classless.

I felt a little less-than-classy even bringing it up!

[mabrowndog]

Isn't one of the manager's responsibilities to deflect attention from the players? If the media is hounding Valentine and Maddon instead of their players, the players don't have to deal with that distraction and can focus on the game instead.

The whole "deflecting attention from the players so they can focus on the game" premise is one of the most perpetuated fallacies of the sport. The players are ALL paying attention to this no matter what the managers or coaches say. Their adrenaline is on full flow over this stuff. They're watching the highlights on TV, reading the articles, listening to the sports talk shows, following on Facebook, tweeting about it, and discussing it among themselves.

Christ, Ortiz has admitted he has a search app set up in his web browser that alerts him to any article that mentions "Ortiz" or "Papi" in a headline.

[E5 Yaz]

#espnjoeymac Ortiz said it was his job to keep the peace. He's talking with numerous Rays players near the cage during BP. Hugs all around

[mabrowndog]

#espnjoeymac Ortiz said it was his job to keep the peace. He's talking with numerous Rays players near the cage during BP. Hugs all around

I'd much rather Papi be the Ray Lewis or Kamala the Ugandan Giant of this club instead of Jimmy Carter, Nelson Mandela or Kofi Annan of this club.

[E5 Yaz]

#espnjoeymac

Valentine on TBR coaches: “I thought their coaches were really aggressive. I took offense to their aggressiveness to their coaches."

More Bobby V on TBR coaches:"I thought it was very unprofessional . . . It seemed very immature and out of control.”

Bobby V “We’re in it to win it. There was no doubt that the coaching staff, me and the players were together – unified.”

Bobby V said he might take the lineup card up tonight to "get the temperature of everyone."

[fineyoungarm]

#espnjoeymac

Valentine on TBR coaches: “I thought their coaches were really aggressive. I took offense to their aggressiveness to their coaches."

More Bobby V on TBR coaches:"I thought it was very unprofessional . . . It seemed very immature and out of control.”

Bobby V “We’re in it to win it. There was no doubt that the coaching staff, me and the players were together – unified.”

Bobby V said he might take the lineup card up tonight to "get the temperature of everyone."

Having regained my sanity (and with thanks to the deleter) - BV5's words are pretty contradictory to Ortis yukking it up with TB players during BP. Was he talking about the scrum ? If so, there appeard to be a good amount of aggressivness "to" the Red sox coaches too - which was fine in my book.

[E5 Yaz]

Having regained my sanity (and with thanks to the deleter) - BV5's words are pretty contradictory to Ortis yukking it up with TB players during BP. Was he talking about the scrum ? If so, there appeard to be a good amount of aggressivness "to" the Red sox coaches too - which was fine in my book.

Not to mention that BV basically used the same kind of adjectives Maddon had used in the first place. That's third-grade playground level tactics.

Which might be appropriate is this case

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I mean, getting indignant over it at all is silly for sure but the idea isnt an attachment to the song as if its been violated--its that another organization took a song the Sox openly associate themselves with and used it to taunt them a bit. Again, hardly a big deal but come on, you know the reaction has nothing to do with the song itself. Teams don't often do that sort of thing, it gets your attention.

Anyone else remember the DBacks playing like three bars of "start spreadin the news" after beating nyy at home in one of the 01 ws games?

I know what you are saying here and if I understand you correctly, you are simply describing why the Rays using that song might rile Sox fans. I get that. I also think the fans who give a shit about that stuff are stupid. I wish they would root for the Yankees as I'd prefer not to associate with mouth-breathers other than myself.

To me, there is a difference between the Rays using Sweet Caroline or something like Luke Scott coming out between innings, dropping Yaz' jersey (or his old favorite trench-coat) on the ground and then pissing on that. I would understand fans ire at that sort of thing.

Another team playing a popular (yet stupid and disgusting) old song that the Sox starting playing just a few short years ago is essentially a non-issue.

As a side note, I wonder how many Sox players hate that craptastic tune. I recall being at a game a few years back when Ortiz came out to hit and they were still playing it as he stepped in the batter's box. He quickly turned up to the announcer's booth and made a cutting motion across his throat. The music abruptly stopped. I still have no idea whether he was simply asking for quiet or was so disgusted with Sweet Caroline that he wanted to kill himself at home-plate.

[JohntheBaptist]

I know what you are saying here and if I understand you correctly, you are simply describing why the Rays using that song might rile Sox fans. I get that. I also think the fans who give a shit about that stuff are stupid. I wish they would root for the Yankees as I'd prefer not to associate with mouth-breathers other than myself.

Well no, I'm describing why using that song isn't riling Sox fans, it's that the Rays are obviously trying to antagonize by stepping outside the norm that is riling Sox fans. Really, it could have been anything--"Dirty Water" instead of "SC", whatever. Teams don't usually do such a knowingly taunting thing, so when they do, yeah, people react. I don't see the particular connection to "SC" which yes, does in fact suck. "They're making fun of us," not "Oh dear, that's our tradition they're trying to steal!"

Yeah, Luke Scott pissing on Yaz' jersey would be worse but the same category to me: shit that is meaningless in the real world but changes in the "baseball world" with the unwritten rules and actions that tell everyone weird, specific things. Both instances are the Rays/ Scott obviously saying "fuck you Red Sox." Neither of which would interrupt my overall life at all, both would crack me up, but yeah, Scott's would kind of piss me off for real a little too because wtf brought Yaz into this, Luke? The "SC" example is obviously not even a "deal" let alone a big one, but you can count on your hand how often one team does that to another, and so in that "universe," it was going to get a response, it was asking for one.

Agree with everything else. Actually caring about it beyond dry jerk posts like my own here is really pathetic. And even then.

Edited by JohntheBaptist, 26 May 2012 - 05:40 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

#espnjoeymac Players and coaches on both sides (more than usual) seem to be talking and shaking hands during BP.

[JGray38]

I'd much rather Papi be the Ray Lewis or Kamala the Ugandan Giant of this club instead of Jimmy Carter, Nelson Mandela or Kofi Annan of this club.

Maybe he's just being Michael Corleone? "I know it was you Fredo"

[dwainw]

I'll readily admit, I'm as easily jacked up by a good baseball brawl as your average Neanderthalic fan. Something about tapping into those primal instincts, etc. etc. But honestly, it's kind of like a one night stand. It gets your juices going and makes you feel good in the moment and maybe for a while after, but ultimately the feeling fades and everything is just as crappy as before, and sometimes worse (in the case of ensuing injuries/suspensions/hurt feelings/genital warts).

All this to say, I'm glad nothing happened today. Just a terrific pitchers duel and great performance by Josh, followed by an exquisite walk-off home run, all of which may or may not happen, and certainly gets overshadowed if the beanbrawl saga had continued. Obviously they could resume it all again tomorrow, but for now I'm glad they set things aside as they did.

[dbn]

I'll readily admit, I'm as easily jacked up by a good baseball brawl as your average Neanderthalic fan. Something about tapping into those primal instincts, etc. etc. But honestly, it's kind of like a one night stand. It gets your juices going and makes you feel good in the moment and maybe for a while after, but ultimately the feeling fades and everything is just as crappy as before, and sometimes worse (in the case of ensuing injuries/suspensions/hurt feelings/genital warts).

All this to say, I'm glad nothing happened today. Just a terrific pitchers duel and great performance by Josh, followed by an exquisite walk-off home run, all of which may or may not happen, and certainly gets overshadowed if the beanbrawl saga had continued. Obviously they could resume it all again tomorrow, but for now I'm glad they set things aside as they did.

This was a good, sober post. Also, it's probably in the SOSH all time top-10 posts involving a brawl-genital warts analogy.

[Beomoose]

I'd much rather Papi be the Ray Lewis or Kamala the Ugandan Giant of this club instead of Jimmy Carter, Nelson Mandela or Kofi Annan of this club.

I can sympathize with this point of view, but I'll take peace-loving Papi. Especially since Luke Scott and Maddon are just about 100% guaranteed to run their mouths again this season, and I'll be glad to point to Papi's actions and say "he's classy, they're dicks."

[joyofsox]

It's also been widely reported that Dauber grabbed or punched at someone's Hogan in the pileup in 2000.

The precedents:

2000 Pedro v. Gerald Williams, first0batter fight after which Pedro throws 1-hitter and Ks 13.
2005 Something with Aubrey Huff that's sorta whocares v. Arroyo
2006 "Julian Loses His Coolian" Tavarez v. Gathright, home-plate Julian punch in a spring training game.
2008 Coco v. Iwamura, spikes up a few years ago, leading to Coco v. Shields

Edit: fixed a date

May 5, 2002: Trot swinging and tossing his bat at pitcher Ryan Rupe after two Sox batters are drilled.

More: http://www.tampabay....ticle846142.ece

[snowmanny]

Schilling pointing out that Lou Piniella is an idiot.Lou saying his young pitchers have lousy controland shouldn't be held accountable for throwing at Papi's head. Edit: 2005

http://www.boston.co...exchange_barbs/

Edited by snowmanny, 27 May 2012 - 07:16 AM.

[Hyde Park Factor]

I mean, getting indignant over it at all is silly for sure but the idea isnt an attachment to the song as if its been violated--its that another organization took a song the Sox openly associate themselves with and used it to taunt them a bit. Again, hardly a big deal but come on, you know the reaction has nothing to do with the song itself. Teams don't often do that sort of thing, it gets your attention.

Anyone else remember the DBacks playing like three bars of "start spreadin the news" after beating nyy at home in one of the 01 ws games?

Yes. That was hilarious.

[Harry Hooper]

That Dauber stuff was B.S. I believe it was Gammons who noted he was nonsensically being attacked for "fighting in a fight."


I don't know who did it first, but in Toronto they would often start "Sweet Caroline" and quickly end it with the big phonograph scratch noise. It's a very tacky and cheap move to get some revenge on all the Sox fans who have paid to watch the game in your venue.

[mrsbeasley]

That Dauber stuff was B.S. I believe it was Gammons who noted he was nonsensically being attacked for "fighting in a fight."


I don't know who did it first, but in Toronto they would often start "Sweet Caroline" and quickly end it with the big phonograph scratch noise. It's a very tacky and cheap move to get some revenge on all the Sox fans who have paid to watch the game in your venue.

I've never been to Toronto, but I know that they do the record scratching thing to "Sweet Caroline" in Baltimore as well.

[Toe Nash]

That Dauber stuff was B.S. I believe it was Gammons who noted he was nonsensically being attacked for "fighting in a fight."


I don't know who did it first, but in Toronto they would often start "Sweet Caroline" and quickly end it with the big phonograph scratch noise. It's a very tacky and cheap move to get some revenge on all the Sox fans who have paid to watch the game in your venue.

They do this in Baltimore for both Yanks and Sox games. It doesn't really bother me, it's their park.

Players and coaches on the field should be professional though. Maddon wasn't.

[Fratboy]

I was there too....I swear Papi's homer was the hardest hit ball I've ever seen. Agree on Piniella....as much as I hate Maddon it amuses me he was able to fix that franchise and Piniella wasn't.

I think Friedman and company vs. Chuck La Mar and company had more to do with it than Piniella/Maddon, but whatever.

[nvalvo]

I think Friedman and company vs. Chuck La Mar and company had more to do with it than Piniella/Maddon, but whatever.

Several years of very good draft position didn't hurt, either.

[trekfan55]

Joe Maddon, aka "The bestest manager in all of baseball" went at BobbyV and the coaching staff:

Link

Again they must have a little program up there that if one of their guys gets hit you are going to hit them back regardless of the situation and that’s what it appeared to be to me.

Not really sure what to think or what this does when they next meet. IMO it looks like the rays always come with a chip on their shoulder to play the Sox, and unfortunately, they have come up big.

[TheoShmeo]

If Bobby had belittled Maddon in exactly the same terms that Maddon belittled Bobby -- praising the opposing players and purposefully leaving the manager out of it, and all the rest of the dribble -- I suspect that many here and elsewhere would have interpreted it as more of that same old, tired Bobby buffoonery.

Really, Maddon sounds delusional with this stuff. Morales hitting his player was utterly shocking, right? Unprecedented I tell you!