95 replies to this topic

[AlNipper49]

Maddon makes it very clear that the blame lies with the Sox

http://blogs.provide...ches-clear.html

[AlNipper49]

Maddon: "We will respond, I can promise you that."

[AlNipper49]

By the way - this article isn't completely fair. It doesn't cover what actually started it -- a tweet a few weeks ago retweeted by David Price that Moore should hit Agon for calling a HR.

Not saying that has everything to do with it, but it does flesh out the story somewhat more.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Wow. That's some pretty strongly worded stuff there - from a manager that might be the most respected manager in the game at this point. Pretty embarrassing.

Is this part of Valentine trying to win the clubhouse by creating an us against the world mentality? Is this Valentine trying to show the team how "old school" he is?

I completely agree that no one in their right mind would put Pedroia on in front of Papi on purpose, and Maddon is very frank about the frailties of his young pitchers. Hard to argue with him there.

Maybe the Sox really are just trying to wear this unlikable thing like a mantle. Might as well own it?

[snowmanny]

I don't know. For their entire history Tampa Bay has been in a state of moral outrage about all this stuff. Anytime they hit anyone there's some valid reason, including that their pitchers are off target and therefore blameless, or they are have an excellent reason for throwing at someone, therefore nobody should complain. Whenever
their guy gets hit OMG this is an outrage.

There are lots of reasons for the Red Sox to throw at Luke Scott, but I don't expect Joe Maddon to understand that.

[AlNipper49]

Out of curiosity, what reasons would the Red Sox team have to throw at Luke Scott?

[snowmanny]

Well there's insulting Red Sox fans and flipping his bat and watching his HR off of Beckett late last year.

Edit: also, they did hit Pedroia with a fastball in the middle of the back, not that that has anything to do with Scott.

Edited by snowmanny, 26 May 2012 - 06:43 AM.

[DLew On Roids]

He's Luke Scott. It's like throwing at Eric Byrnes a decade ago--you don't need a specific reason.

Congratulations to Maddon for earning his five-day suspension in advance. Maybe it's just me, but he comes across as medicinally impaired in some of those quotes.

Edited by DLew On Roids, 26 May 2012 - 06:54 AM.

[AlNipper49]

Well there's insulting Red Sox fans and flipping his bat and watching his HR off of Beckett late last year.

Edit: also, they did hit Pedroia with a fastball in the middle of the back, not that that has anything to do with Scott.

I mean, I have zero problem if his head was taken off, just because that would mean more delicious air for me, but I'm curious to hear why criticizing fans or watching a home run is reason for someone to throw a baseball at you intentionally.

[snowmanny]

I mean, I have zero problem if his head was taken off, just because that would mean more
delicious air for me, but I'm curious to hear why criticizing fans or watching a home run is reason for someone to throw a baseball at you intentionally.

Fair enough. Valentine did mention the criticizing the fans issue. And I'd bet Maddon would have his pitchers throw at a Red Sox player who criticized their fan, or flipped a bat. But you make a good point.

[PortageeExpress]

Joe Maddon ‏@RaysJoeMaddon


Very proud of our effort 2nite. What occurred in the 9th reeked of intent. Was ridiculous, absurd, idiotic, incompetent, cowardly behavior.

[judyb]

Bogar knows what they're doing. There's nothing new about "our rookie pitchers can't help it" and "why would they hit him in that situation?", the only new thing is tweeting they were going to hit their opponent's best player, hitting him, and still getting away with playing innocent.

[LeoCarrillo]

Sox now harbor more blood-boiling animosity toward the Rays and Orioles than MFY. (Only recent flair-up with NY that comes to mind was the Cervelli home-plate slap hot doggery.)

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Sox now harbor more blood-boiling animosity toward the Rays and Orioles than MFY.

Why should a last place team bother harboring animosity toward a third-place team?

[Jinhocho]

http://scores.espn.g...ameId=320525102

Saw this segment this morning and it might tie into this discussion.

[Dick Pole Upside]

Bogar knows what they're doing. There's nothing new about "our rookie pitchers can't help it" and "why would they hit him in that situation?", the only new thing is tweeting they were going to hit their opponent's best player, hitting him, and still getting away with playing innocent.

This.

Total posturing from Maddon. He's just being silly... more of the stupid "unwritten rules" garbage. I think the question of "Why Luke Scott?" is fair, but I would also ask "Why Adrian Gonzalez?". The Moore-Price conspiracy could have been stopped by Maddon. He just chose not to. The "young pitcher" argument is almost as idiotic as his comments. He is merely reinforcing the Twisted-Sister-spunky-young-underdogs status the Rays seem to be enjoying. He's kind of a tool.

This goes all the way back to Brian Daubach and Jerald Williams.

Hitting Luke Scott in the leg with two out in the ninth down three? Yawn.

[Montana Fan]

We have every reason to throw at the Rays. I'm still pissed about the way they made Daubach dance multiple times in the same game.

[Rudy Pemberton]

But Daubach was a scab! A scab!

If Maddon has a problem, handle it on the field.

Rushing to tweet about how cowardly an act was seems somewhat of a bizarre act by a manager, especially considering the Moore / Price / Gonzalez nonsense, but it's the world we live in.

Thank god Valentine isn't on twitter (don't get any ideas, Dentist).

[CaptainLaddie]

In fairness, Pedro made the Rays his bitch that day in a way that was pretty epic.

[mabrowndog]

Great to see Salty borrowing the "Take your fucking base, asshole" page from Tek's incident response manual.

[RGREELEY33]

F Maddon and his righteous outrage. First, to act as if your guys only hit guys because they are inexperienced and lack command at times as a result is a joke. Secondly, to act as if the only time a team needs to retaliate is when they know somebody was purposely throwing at them is also ridiculous. Hey Joe, if your young guys are drilling our guys - for any reason, we can drill your guys in an effort to say "get some better fucking command and stop hitting our guys.". Lastly, he totally contradicts himself and sounds like a bow-tied idiot when he says, "There's no vengeance in our soul, there's none of that crap. But we will respond to others that do attempt to do it to us. I promise you that, too."

[fineyoungarm]

Some Red Sox player should enhance the dialog by going to the media with something like "We'd criticize their fans - if they had any". Then, we can just pull the plug on more games and exhange quips.

[LeoCarrillo]

It's also been widely reported that Dauber grabbed or punched at someone's Hogan in the pileup in 2000.

The precedents:

2000 Pedro v. Gerald Williams, first0batter fight after which Pedro throws 1-hitter and Ks 13.
2005 Something with Aubrey Huff that's sorta whocares v. Arroyo
2006 "Julian Loses His Coolian" Tavarez v. Gathright, home-plate Julian punch in a spring training game.
2008 Coco v. Iwamura, spikes up a few years ago, leading to Coco v. Shields

Edit: fixed a date

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 26 May 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[fineyoungarm]

Why should a last place team bother harboring animosity toward a third-place team?

BP, it seems to me no one reason - throw the O's in there. Among others - Vengence. Also,I do believe that our traveling fans invading their home turf has something to do with it. There's the individual managers - you have competitive and then there's they way one is competitive and Maddon, Showalter and our very own BV5 fall into the latter categorie of being extroverts. It's the part of their personality that makes all three love the TV cameras.

[Dick Pole Upside]

Some Red Sox player should enhance the dialog by going to the media with something like "We'd criticize their fans - if they had any". Then, we can just pull the plug on more games and exhange quips.

P.S. Salty is one large dude. At least Scott had the common sense to heed the "You Shall Not Pass" sign.

Edited by Dick Pole Upside, 26 May 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[Tim Naehrings Girl]

With Beckett going tonight, things could get interesting quickly.

[Montana Fan]

With Beckett going tonight, things could get interesting quickly.

Maybe he could throw one into the dugout at Longoria.

I would really like to see the snarling Beckett out there. I love snarling Beckett and hate passive Beckett!

[Tim Naehrings Girl]

Snarling Beckett would be a nice way to show his teammates that he is interested in them more then beer and chicken.

[bosockboy]

They deserve whatever they get after the years of Sweet Caroline at The Trop...talk about classless.

[Doctor G]

Sox now harbor more blood-boiling animosity toward the Rays and Orioles than MFY. (Only recent flair-up with NY that comes to mind was the Cervelli home-plate slap hot doggery.)

I have a feeling they might also remember NIck the Dick howling and pounding his chest in the comeback game. That might elicit a response.

[BlackSox Jack]

"The most respected manager in baseball" aside, after the Price tweet and Moore deliberately hitting A-Gon while Price and others had a laughfest, Maddon's comments are really small, smarmy and insulting.

There are plenty of smart and engaging
individuals that act inappropriately. Joe Maddon implies that he and his "classier" team are above reproach and we should beg to differ.

It will be interesting to see if there is a pre-game warning tonight as well as how Beckett performs.

Edited by BlackSox Jack, 26 May 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[JohntheBaptist]

Joe Maddon ‏@RaysJoeMaddon


Very proud of our effort 2nite. What occurred in the 9th reeked of intent. Was ridiculous, absurd, idiotic, incompetent, cowardly behavior.

Seriously, does he have a three day vacation booked coming up? Even if you think this is true you shut your mouth about it after a point, right?

[LeoCarrillo]

I have a feeling they might also remember NIck the Dick howling and pounding his chest in the comeback game. That might elicit a response.

Yes. Swisher in the 7-and-7 game.

[Doctor G]

As far as the Pedroia HBP, Maddon had an open base, and had Mc Gee ready for Ortiz, who has been cold for the last week.

[BoSoxLady]

It will be interesting to see if there is a pre-game warning tonight as well as how Beckett performs.

There will absolutely be a warning for the game tonight. Typically, nothing happens immediately after a dust-up. Teams just file incidents away for later. Element of surprise.

[BoSoxLady]

They deserve whatever they get after the years of Sweet Caroline at The Trop...talk about classless.

The first time I heard Sweet Caroline after a Rays win at the Trop I was bull shit. Low class.

[941827]

Tampa hit Pedroia, so the Sox hit Scott. What's the issue?

Valentine is not the type of manager who's going to adopt the Yankees' approach of rarely retaliating for hit batters.

It may help team chemistry for the hitters to know that the pitchers will protect them. And given that (at least some of) the pitchers aren't going to support the hitters by actually getting outs, protecting the hitters is the least they can do.

[URI]

They deserve whatever they get after the years of Sweet Caroline at The Trop...talk about classless.

"Only the Red Sox can have a 10 year old tradition of playing a song written by a 28 year old man about an 11 year old girl!!! HOW DARE OTHER TEAMS MOCK THIS!!! CLASSLESS!!!!"

[URI]

"As long as you aren't Davidson University or the University of Pittsburgh, you're stealing our bit! Classless!"

[fineyoungarm]

Here's the plan. Red Sox FO offers cash strapped Rays all MLB rights to "Sweet Caroline" - paying good money to Tampa Bay and agreeing to absorb all royalties owed N Diamond. ("Play it whenever you want! On us! It's fun!") Substitute Standell's version of Dirty Water after last out of games won at home. That will improve morale of important segment of fan base by 20% and usher in an Era of Good Feelings between the two organizations.

Edited by fineyoungarm, 26 May 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[EdRalphRomero]

If Red Sox fans wanted to get back at Tampa, all they need to do is stop buying tickets for the games down in the Trop. Without the pick-up from the big out-of-town sellers they could drop off their third from the bottom in the league attendance.

[someoneanywhere]

With Beckett going tonight, things could get interesting quickly.

As long as you got Padilla in your pen, it's interesting. It's interesting every day.

The Sox are out of line here. Sorry. The pitch behind Scott's back was enough. Message sent, party over. Maybe, maybe, you go at him twice to ensure it's known that there is a message and not a getaway ball. But to go at him four straight times is headhunting.

Yes, Maddon is playing then self-righteous victim. Yes, there's no asshole I'd rather plunk than Birther Boy. But the hometown nine are on the wrong side of this deal.

[YTF]

"We were all out there. They were out there," Valentine said of the scrum. "I liked the spirit of the guys going out there. Salty was great. I had a little adrenaline going and the guys had some adrenaline going, so that's good. Nothing wrong with that. ... Maybe it was the ghost of Fenway past remembering that he bad-mouthed all our fans and our stadium or something, just directing the ball at his leg."

THIS is another example of where Bobby should just shut the fuck up. He needs to offer nothing more than "It looked to me as if Morales was just having some trouble with his control tonight." Anyone who understands babseball knows what's going on here. There's no need to be a smug little cunt and draw further attention to your team. But he's like that little kid we all grew up with that just can't help himself.

[JayMags71]

The first time I heard Sweet Caroline after a Rays win at the Trop I was bull shit. Low class.

In the spirit of fairness, some of us believe that "Sweet Caroline" at Fenway is low class bullshit.

[Judge Mental13]

I'll take Bobby V being a smug little Beloved Aunt over Madden's hammy outrage over a guy getting drilled when both teams have been drilling each other on purpose all year. These sorts of things can bring a team together. I'm not saying go out and hurt someone, but the Red Sox have no obligation to take any shit from the Tampa Bay Rays.

My favorite part was right after getting hit in the shin if you read Scott's lips he clearly yelled "Was that on purpose?!?!" to Morales with this incredulous look on his face.

No, dummy, he only threw at your 4 friggin times.....like, I get that Luke Scott isn't a particularly intelligent guy, but the fact that he still wasn't sure if it was on purpose after dodging 3 pitches and then getting hit by the 4th was pretty funny

Edited by Judge Mental13, 28 May 2012 - 09:22 AM.

[rembrat]

I loved it. You don't get to call our dump a dump even though its a dump especially while your at the dump. Players only meeting and now this leads me to believe that the team is finally coming together and I wouldn't mind if they turned a bit nasty in the process.

[Shelterdog]

It's also been widely reported that Dauber grabbed or punched at someone's Hogan in the pileup in 2000.

The precedents:

2000 Pedro v. Gerald Williams, first0batter fight after which Pedro throws 1-hitter and Ks 13.
2005 Something with Aubrey Huff that's sorta whocares v. Arroyo
2006 "Julian Loses His Coolian" Tavarez v. Gathright, home-plate Julian punch in a spring training game.
2008 Coco v. Iwamura, spikes up a few years ago, leading to Coco v. Shields

Edit: fixed a date

[flymrfreakjar]

They can be as nasty as they want, but if they don't finally claw their way over .500 soon, this is all moot. You can't be a tough guy while losing all the time...

[E5 Yaz]

"That’s truly somebody flexing their muscles on the other side that really needs to put them in their back pocket and understand that they can’t hurt their own team by doing something like that."

Edited by E5 Yaz, 26 May 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

They can be as nasty as they want, but if they don't finally claw their way over .500 soon, this is all moot. You can't be a tough guy while losing all the time...

Tampa tried to do just that for years before they finally got good.

In any case, it sounds like this is going to be an ugly situation that will carry through the season and possibly into future seasons. I don't know what Maddon thought he was doing with his statement beyond fanning the flames, but a situation that could have ended last night will almost assuredly carry through the rest of the series and could end up now leading to suspensions and maybe even injuries.

I've never really had a problem with him before, but this is absolutely uncalled for and the innocent act is really annoying.