730 replies to this topic

[Snakebauer007]

http://brazil.worldc...kers-oscar.html

Very in depth scouting profile on Oscar.

I do like his versatile to play deeper in midfield or as a attacking #10. Could definitely see him compete for time as one of our double pivots, or in the attacking trio with mata, Hazard, Marin etc

[Snakebauer007]

Lots of exciting stuff in the 4-2 win over Seattle.

Hazard was, Impressive. Quick, great turns, looked real nice in the CAm spot nehind the CF.
Marko Marin has a great first step cutting in from the left, will score some goals for sure, best play for him was the theft from midfield and perfect thru ball for Lukaku.
Lukaku with two bullish goals
Kevin De Bruyne really looked good, shame if he gets loaned out, just super exciting to watch.
Awesome to see the top prospect, Chalobah start and Piazon and Patrick Kane as well.

Interesting that RDM again played Ramires on the right and not in one of the Holding mid spots. Clearly we will continue with the 4-2-3-1 and the competition for spots right now appears to be:

Defense:
RB-Ivan and Ferreira
CB-Terry, Luiz, Cahill, Ivan
LB-Cole, Bertrand

The 2 holding mid spots: Lampard, Mikel, Meireles, Essien, McEachran, Romeu

The 3 attacking Mid spots: Mata, Hazard, Ramires, Marin, Yossi, De Bruyne, Kakuta

Center Forwad: Torres, Sturridge, Lukaku

This doesnt account for players yet to be signed, like Oscar, and the Rightback we're clearly looking for. Plus the right wing or CF as well. Clearly too many players, expect a bunch to get loaned out(McEachran, Romeu, KDB, Lukaku the most likely).

To drop Malouda and Kalou for Marin, Hazard, KDB etc, it looked lie a whole different team. Not only was the ball movement quicker and crisper, but the passing was much more incisive and dangerous, and the counters were much MUCH faster. Torres must be drooling, hope he has his shit together

[Snakebauer007]

Got to watch the Brazil-GB Olympic warmup, the 3 Chelsea players impressed

[DLew On Roids]

Wow. Kind of in-your-face, if you ask me:

[BelgianSoxFan]

And Chelsea added another Belgian to the fold, Thorgan Hazard is re-uniting with his bigger brother. It is likely that the re-union will be brief though, as everyone expects Thorgan to be loaned out.

[Snakebauer007]

LOL, I think we choose to keep him no matter what

[DLew On Roids]

Based on what we've seen so far in this tournament, I think I'd rather have Oscar than Neymar. Part of that is that Neymar can be put off with a little physical play that's standard in almost all the big European leagues (maybe Neymar would get the calls he wants in Spain), but also because Oscar seems unfased by physical play despite being small.

[Zomp]

Oof. Not sure if Oscar can do that.

[Zomp]

As far as Chelsea goes though...wow.

-------Mikel-------Lampard-------
Mata--------Oscar----------Hazard
-------------Torres---------------


Their 3 attacking midfielders can play all over the park. Surely it rests on if Torres can discover form? Though Lukaku looks decent in preseason.

[Zomp]

Wow...and I forgot Ramires.

[Snakebauer007]

As far as Chelsea goes though...wow.

-------Mikel-------Lampard-------
Mata--------Oscar----------Hazard
-------------Torres---------------


Their 3 attacking midfielders can play all over the park. Surely it rests on if Torres can discover form? Though Lukaku looks decent in preseason.

Lukaku hasnt been great, he needs a loan somewhere, it def rests on Torres and Danny at CF. I think Oscar has been setup to replace Lampard one day, but can play any of the 5 spots in midfield. Be real interested, once everyone has been in training and is fit, who starts the first big game of the season. Marin has looed the most natural player wide left, but again it is only preseason.

Di Matteo prefers Ramires on the right, Id rather him in the pivots, but options are nice

[Snakebauer007]

Marvin Sordell is going to be picked over Sturridge? Really?!? Stuart Pearce is an idiot

[Snakebauer007]

https://twitter.com/...5/photo/1/large

[Snakebauer007]

http://www.weaintgot...f-transfer-fees

[SoxFanInCali]

Amortizing transfer fees is not exactly a new concept to NFL fans. The same thing happens with signing bonuses against the salary cap.

Yes, if you spend 60 million GBP and amortize it over 5 years, only 12 million counts that season. The problem comes around year 4 or 5, when you are still paying 12 million for the guys you bought 5 years ago, plus the amortized share of the guys you bought 4, 3, 2, and 1 year ago. Then it just comes down to whether you can sell players for enough to offset some of that.

As much as I hate that $%&@# Sir Rednose, that's the thing Man U have been great at in the past, selling off players for a profit while they still have value but are at or near the end of their peak. With a few exceptions, Chelsea and Liverpool have not been as good at doing that.

Edited by SoxFanInCali, 30 July 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[Snakebauer007]

That's why fans are excited to see us going after younger players lie Oscar instead of someone more established

[SoxFanInCali]

I realize that, but the point is, buying up young players over the next 3 or 4 years, and not really having much of value to sell (as most of the veteran core retires or moves on for free) means those transfer fees will really build up over the next few years, even if they are amortized.

I still doubt it will matter, anyways. As I've said in the past, I have serious doubts that FFP will really change behavior. There are enough accounting loopholes to keep teams compliant for the foreseeable future.

[coremiller]

I guess the goal then is to exploit the differing accounting treatment of sales vs. purchases -- the cost of purchases is amortized over the life of the contract but revenue from sales is recognized immediately. That way you can keep buying and selling and as long as you keep turnover going you just keep pushing your costs off into the future.

Take Oscar, 20m fee signed to a 5 year contract. If you sell him after three years, you'd need to recognize 8m in fees against. Anything you can get for him over 8m lets you offset a new purchase. So if you sell him for 12m, you can turn around and buy someone for 20m on a 5-year contract and that year's accounting nets out as even. As long as you're willing to keep turning over your roster you can do this indefinitely and never have to actually realize the costs.

This only works though if your players hold their resale value. Partly that's a function of age (hence the buy younger strategy), but the flip side is that younger players are much riskier. In three years Oscar could be worth 35m or he could be worth 3m. A few 20m players that can't be resold for enough to offset both their remaining amortized fees and a replacement (esp. likely if they're on high wages), and suddenly you have a roster logjam and a big accounting problem as all the amortized fees stick around on the books, as SFiC points out.

[Snakebauer007]

I realize that, but the point is, buying up young players over the next 3 or 4 years, and not really having much of value to sell (as most of the veteran core retires or moves on for free) means those transfer fees will really build up over the next few years, even if they are amortized.

I still doubt it will matter, anyways. As I've said in the past, I have serious doubts that FFP will really change behavior. There are enough accounting loopholes to keep teams compliant for the foreseeable future.

I dont think so, the older players are being replaced as theyre still here-Lampard/Oscar, Terry/Luiz/Cahill, Cole/Bertrand, Cech/Courtois and the players here in 2010 or earlier, wages and fees don't count against the figures. In 3 seasons the core of this team will not be old enough to need replacing imo. We certainly wont be looking at a mass overhaul that was needed with so many managers content to hang on to Mourinho's team for so long. Currently Chelsea have 11 regulars 25 or younger and the future keeper already on the books, gaining huge experience at Atletico.

Edited by Snakebauer007, 30 July 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[Zomp]

Hey Snake, what are you guys hearing about Cole leaving?

[Snakebauer007]

Hey Snake, what are you guys hearing about Cole leaving?

nothing?

[Apisith]

http://www.weaintgot...f-transfer-fees

Clubs have been amortizing transfer fees since forever, though. Check out the Swiss ramble if you're into this stuff.

Chelsea will still fail the FFP if it's as strict as it should be. But they obviously won't because obvious loopholes exist.

[Snakebauer007]

"the sale of Yuri Zhirkov is enough to offset this season's amortized hit of every single player we've bought in the last 2 transfer windows combined"

[DLew On Roids]

Who said that?

Edit: Never mind, I found it.

It's kind of a silly statement, since it doesn't consider that this isn't going to be the rule going forward. Zhirkov didn't have any future amortization to be offset under FFP and the FFP window didn't go back far enough to capture typical Chelsea annual transfer costs.

And "typical" is really the point of amortization. You take your capital costs and spread them over a number of years to make each year's accounting more typical of what you'd expect to spend over time. Chelsea doesn't get to use any magic to make the costs disappear off the books, they just get to spread the cost out over time.

If Chelsea continues to spend this way, the annual amortization number will reflect their annual spending, and unless they find a way to sell players at a real profit, they aren't going to get relief from selling. Look at the Zhirkov signing. If FFP had been in place since 2009, they would have only seen £6 million in FFP relief (£13.2 for the sale to Anzhi - £7.2 remaining on the 5 year/£18 schedule). That wouldn't have covered Edin Hazard's 2012-13 amortization costs, plus they'd have seen £3.6 million in amortization costs assigned for each of the last three years. It's accounting relief that's only available for the next 24 months as fewer players are eligible for FFP relief without having prior transfer fees in amortization schedules.

Edited by DLew On Roids, 31 July 2012 - 01:54 PM.

[Vinho Tinto]

Amortizing transfer fees is not exactly a new concept to NFL fans. The same thing happens with signing bonuses against the salary cap.

Concepts such as amortization and depreciation are taught in introductory cost accounting (I'm pretty sure they were introduced in accounting 101). I think it's an interesting article for anyone who is numbers averse or never taken a financial class, but there was nothing really eye opening to the piece. Despite the author's claim of genius, there is nothing of the sort going on. Your local baseball card shop is doing the same with their assets.

[DLew On Roids]

This really should be Snake's avatar:

[SidelineCameras]

I think it's an interesting article for anyone who is numbers averse or never taken a financial class, but there was nothing really eye opening to the piece. Despite the author's claim of genius, there is nothing of the sort going on.

What? Don't tell me you came up with this on your own: "Clubs that buy smart will be able to spend big, we just have to avoid the Fernando Torres and Stuart Downing purchases of the world and we'll be ok going forward. Buy young, buy upside, and build a strong academy."

[Snakebauer007]

Despite the author's claim of genius

I missed that part

[Snakebauer007]

This really should be Snake's avatar:

agreed strongly

[Vinho Tinto]

I missed that part

"This method of accounting for player sales helps to highlight the genius of what Chelsea are currently doing."

Edited by Vinho Tinto, 31 July 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[Snakebauer007]

"This method of accounting for player sales helps to highlight the genius of what Chelsea are currently doing."

[SoxFanInCali]

Hey Snake, what are you guys hearing about Cole leaving?

nothing?

How about now?

http://soccernet.esp...ay-from-chelsea

http://soccernet.esp...act,-psg-linked

[Snakebauer007]

Harry Harris is a complete hack, a better source and I might worry. Then again if we could get a lot of money for him I wouldn't be especially opposed to it, given Bertrand looking like he's ready to start and be real solid

[Snakebauer007]

Ashley Cole moonlighting at the track

[DLew On Roids]

I hope Chelsea wasn't planning on crossing the ball to Oscar much.

[Snakebauer007]

I hope Chelsea wasn't planning on crossing the ball to Oscar much.

Cant imagine its in the thought process

[soxfan121]

I hope Chelsea wasn't planning on crossing the ball to Oscar much.

It's a damn good thing he's moving to London permanently and not going back to Brazil. I think he would have heard about that miss for a LONG time in Brazil. In North London, he can just glue himself to the bench and think happy thoughts while cashing big paychecks.

The miss was egregious. HE WAS WIDE OPEN!

[DLew On Roids]

The touch Chelsea's #9 showed just then reminds me of this amazing striker Liverpool had a few years ago.

[Snakebauer007]

Oscar isn't being brought in to sit the bench all season, he's too good. That's why De Bruyne and Mceachran are being loaned out and he isn't. His tournament will also be remembered for how great he played, not one miss, that's just a extraordinary narrow line of thinking.

Missed the red card incident live, so can't comment, too bad though, it changed the game. More worried about the suspension for our only capable RB

[DLew On Roids]

Two footed in at the same time. Textbook straight red.

That said, it didn't look dirty, just a situation where Ivanovic was surprised to be in the position, had to make a quick play, and fucked up. It could have been any fullback who accepts that he has to take risks in the tackle sometimes.

[Snakebauer007]

Yeah just saw it, no complaints. Someone sent me a gif of Hazard tripping over the ball, the fact the he was defended by De Jong added to the comedy for me

[DLew On Roids]

Hazard looks very slippery on the ball. He's going to force a lot of yellow cards. Plus, he's happy to, uh, embellish, which always helps.

[teddykgb]

I'm not sure I'd sugarcoat it. Hazard did nothing but embarrass himself flopping and diving yesterday. He's clearly got a touch of class and you can cut him some slack while he adjusts to the league, but if he plays like that all the time he's going to become a villain pretty quickly.

[Zomp]

If he's good enough it won't matter. Sad, but true.

[soxfan121]

If he's good enough it won't matter. Sad, but true.

He's good enough and it won't matter.

Diving cunts on your favorite team are just fighting, doing all they can to win. Diving cunts on rival clubs are diving cunts who play dirty, the diving cunts.

[Snakebauer007]

Drogbas the perfect example: Fans who experienced his tenure with the club, will def remember a lot of the antics and drama, but after the CL win, none will care

[soxfan121]

As a neutral, I can attest that it's not the diving or the cuntiness - just about everyone flops once and awhile and cuntiness is so prevalent in pro athletes that we (fans) are always amazed when a guy doesn't act the cunt.

And yes, Drogba is a perfect example. Dude unquestionably went down trying to draw calls, diving in a cunty way. However, he was also so fucking good that it only bothered me that he was trying to draw a call instead of making a play. There's a ratio - a balance, if you will - to the number of flops to the number of chances & conversions.

This is also why Nani is the unquestioned Captain and top performer on the Diving Cunt scale. In the Euros it was frustrating to watch Portugal because Nani would just try to draw calls unless he was WIDE open. Unlike a Messi - who rarely flops - Nani's first instinct is not to make a play, it's to flop. His flop-to-play ratio is sky high; Messi's would be ridiculously low (for the amount of contact he absorbs). Neymar looks to be a bit of a cunty diver but since I also saw 5 jaw-dropping "holy shit" plays...his 10 or so flops were somewhat less annoying than the the typical 4:1 ratio that Nani maintains.

And Hazard's gonna be an annoying diving cunt because while he is immensely talented, he also seems to think "the dive" is as productive as the "the play". Too bad Drogba's not around to show him the proper ratio of dives to actual great plays made.

[Snakebauer007]

I withold my judgement on Hazard until he gets more than one game in England, but I wont be surprised.

[SoxFanInCali]

Yeah, everyone hates the guy who dives on the opposing team, but it seemed worse with Drogba. Partly because he was so ridiculously theatrical, but mostly because he was one of the most physically imposing guys in the league, yet would go down in agony if someone breathed on him. When he was physically and mentally in the game, he was almost unstoppable, as his scoring record in finals shows. It was disappointing when he would take the easy way out when you knew he was capable of something spectacular.

Even though he killed Liverpool several times in his career, I enjoyed watching him when he was at his best. I just wish it would have been more often.

[JayMags71]

Combine his diving cuntiness with his self-aggrandizing transfer saga, you've got your own version of LeBron!