570 replies to this topic

[mikeford]

IN:
Lukas Podolski
Olivier Giroud
Santi Cazorla

Kevin Mirallas?
Yann M'Vila?
Etienne Capoue?



OUT:
England's #1 Manuel Almunia
Bendtner
Denilson
Benayoun
van Persie

Arshavin?
Song?


Needs:
Defensive mid (cover for Song)
Backup RB
4th CB
Striker

Edited by mikeford, 15 August 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[sachmoney]

The list going out is going to be a lot longer than that. I see Bendtner, Arshavin, Park, Vela, Almunia, Chamakh, Squillaci, Mannone, Fabianski, and possibly Diaby [needs full-time football to actually come back, he's 26] all leaving the Emirates. Most of these guys were on loan this season and did not contribute to the team at all this season.

The problem with a lot of these guys will still be the wages that they are making. We saw the trouble that Arsenal had with trying to unload Bendtner and Denilson last season. Let's hope there isn't the same trouble this season. Dortmund is interested in Bendtner. I see Fabianski going to Germany as well. Vela already has a few suitors in Spain. Arshavin shouldn't have trouble finding a club in Russia. It's important to move these players in order to free up money for new player wages.

I'm pretty sure that this would free up at least £20-25 million on the wage bill for new signings and hopefully, that means M'Vila and an attacking midfielder, in addition to Podolski. It probably wouldn't hurt to bring in a defender that at the very least can provide cover for Sagna.

We'll see what happens.

Edited by sachmoney, 20 May 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[SidelineCameras]

I said it in last year's thread, I'll say it again - the important thing is to get this stuff done early and have this team finalized about 6 weeks before last year's was.

[DLew On Roids]

Good post, sach.

I get the feeling Wenger learned his lesson about doing business early, at least if the Podolski and M'Vila cases are any indication. Leverage flows to the sellers as the summer wears on.

[mikeford]

Wenger basically said he had learned his lesson when they announced the Podolski signing.

[Lukiewerle]

IN:
Lukas Podolski
Shinji Kagawa?
Eden Hazard?
Yann M'Vila?


OUT:
Bendtner
Denilson
Arshavin?
Benayoun?


Needs:
Attacking mid
Defensive mid (cover for Song)
Backup RB
4th CB

Unfortunately, I don't see Kagawa, Hazard, or M'Villa as realistic targets. Arsenal has never paid more than 15MM pounds for a player. Kagawa might be right in that range, but M'Villa and certainly Hazard will cost quite a bit more than that. I know M'Villa was rumored to essentially be a done deal, but I'm not buying that -- especially for the rumored fee. I'v also heard more recent rumors that a deal for M'Villa is quite a ways off and there hasn't been any contact since last summer. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we should temper our expectations and prepare ourselves for another long summer.

Edited by Lukiewerle, 21 May 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[sachmoney]

Unfortunately, I don't see Kagawa, Hazard, or M'Villa as realistic targets. Arsenal has never paid more than 15MM pounds for a player. Kagawa might be right in that range, but M'Villa and certainly Hazard will cost quite a bit more than that. I know M'Villa was rumored to essentially be a done deal, but I'm not buying that -- especially for the rumored fee. I'v also heard more recent rumors that a deal for M'Villa is quite a ways off and there hasn't been any contact since last summer. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we should temper our expectations and prepare ourselves for another long summer.

So who do you see as more realistic targets then? What are your expectations? Who do you think we'll buy? What type of money do you expect us to spend?

I realize as far as money goes that those players are more expensive than the usual Arsenal signings. However, it's not like Arsene isn't spending money on transfers. He brought in three players last season (Gervinho, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Arteta) that cost £10 million or more. In recent years, he has shown a propensity to spend in the £10-15 million range to get a quality player. I'm not saying that he will spend more than that on a player, but I'm not sure that it is as implausible as in years past.

The key thing in this to keep in mind is that Arsenal brought in around £70 million in transfer fees while spending £51.57 million. They're not going to get that kind of money coming in this season, and I'm not sure that the money from last year is available [i.e. to be spent] for this season. I don't see us spending big money on a player unless we end up selling Van Persie, but I guess "big money" is relative.

In that regard, I don't think there are any players that we aren't going to have to break the bank for, besides may be Vertonghen [who I am not sure that we're actually pursuing]. Kagawa is near the end of his contract [one year left], but it seems like he won't come cheap regardless [at least from the latest reports]. There was a rumor that his fee was accepted for both Arsenal and United. There was a rumor that he wanted to hear both clubs out. Now, it seems like this whole thing is going to be prolonged. I like the player a lot, but I think United have the advantage [cash and draw] to get him regardless.

The M'Vila rumor seems to have been pushed by his agent. With our defensive problems and Song possibly missing time due to the ACN, you have to believe that Arsene will take a look at a player like M'Vila. Not necessarily him [another defensive midfielder perhaps?], but M'Vila is a player that we've been linked with in the past and have been rumored to have monitored. Spending that much on a defensive midfielder, though, is not very Wenger-like.

I'm not even going to talk about Hazard.

I agree that we should temper our expectations as far as getting star players [I do consider M'Vila and Kagawa stars]. That doesn't mean that Wenger won't spend money on a player who he deems worthwhile. He spent the money to get Ox and he spent the money to get Arteta [by this, I mean he spent above what I believe he valued them at]. I do agree that it's going to be a long Summer though. With the Euros, a lot of players are putting contract/transfer talks off to focus on the competition. Additionally, bringing players in is further complicated by having to sell off other players first, as I mentioned in my last post in this thread.

You sell off those players, you're clearing £20-25 million in wages and bringing in around £15-20 million [conservative estimate as I'm not certain that all of those players have a market value] in transfer fees. Even after you factor in raises to Van Persie, Walcott, and Song, there should be some money to play with and to add to the squad. The players that would be let go are players who did not contribute much to the squad this season, essentially the dead weight.

You don't lose anything from this past year's squad by letting those guys go, but you gain for next year's squad by adding any new players. Podolski is a good start, but getting one or two more players would be great. If Wilshere can come back [not holding my breathe at the moment] and a young player like a Lansbury, Coquelin, or Frimpong [there are others too] can step up, Arsenal might be able to enter the title picture.

The instability and injuries early helped unsettle Arsenal last year and while there were some stretches of brilliant form, it didn't make up for the early season blunders. With stability and a potentially deeper and stronger squad this season, I believe that Arsenal will be better built to make a title charge. Arsene is going to have to put in the work to make it happen though.

[Lukiewerle]

Sachmoney, I'm not sure we disagree? I was nodding my head with nearly every point you made in the post above.

Wenger will spend, I just think it's highly unlikely to be on the aforementioned players. I think you said it best yourself:

I realize as far as money goes that those players are more expensive than the usual Arsenal signings. However, it's not like Arsene isn't spending money on transfers. He brought in three players last season (Gervinho, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Arteta) that cost £10 million or more. In recent years, he has shown a propensity to spend in the £10-15 million range to get a quality player. I'm not saying that he will spend more than that on a player, but I'm not sure that it is as implausible as in years past.

I have no doubts that quality players will be brought in (e.g. Podolski), and it's not implausible that he'd spend more than in past years on a single player, but I just don't think it's realistic to expect a player from Mikeford's list of targets.

Edited by Lukiewerle, 21 May 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[sachmoney]

I guess what we *may* agree/disagree on is whether those players are realistic targets (again, I'm only including Kagawa and M'Vila in this, Hazard is not realistic at all). My whole ordeal here is whether the prices that have been rumored are what the actual prices will be. For Kagawa, I think £16.1 million is too high for a player a year from the end of his contract and still establishing himself as a star. With M'Vila, £17.7 million is a lot for a defensive midfielder. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors right now driven by agents and tabloids. We need the dust to settle and see where the real numbers lie before anyone is realistic or not. At the quoted prices, I'd be more likely to say that both of these deals would not get done. If the prices are more favorable, we'll see. M'Vila is a player I really want, and I think that he would significantly improve this club.

[twhan1978]

What do y'all think of Nuri Sahin? I saw him mentioned somewhere a few weeks ago as someone who, because of lack of playing time, might like out of RM. Although there are players I might prefer (guys like Hazard, Christian Eriksen and Gotze come to mind), I don't think any of them will be available for a price that could realistically be within Arsene's price range (see the rest of this thread) - Sahin could be if his wages aren't TOO unreasonable. If Kagawa is seriously being considered, the reuniting of two Dortmund players might also speed the acclimation process. Plus, Dortmund play seriously good football and one would hope that both Kagawa and Sahin would bring some of those lessons with them.

For the same financial reason, I agree with Sach that M'Vila probably isn't a realistic target. I also think he'd be a less-than-wise long term buy for the club. The club has defensive and holding midfielders coming up through the ranks; Frimpong, Coquelin and even Wilshere can fill that role; one of Frimpong or Coquelin probably will at some point. What they really lack are young attacking midfielders. Ramsey still has potential, but think of how poorly they played without Arteta all year long - they need someone who will take his place and, hopefully, be a whole lot better than him. No matter how many goals the defense conceded this year, it seemed like the bigger problem was that they had no idea how to turn lots of possession into goal-scoring chances. More often than not, long spells of Arsenal possession involved more lateral than diagonal passing, with three or four players lined up straight across the field. This allowed their opponents to remain organized and, when the ball was turned over, to break back the other way with speed.

[mikeford]

Eriksen is a player I have wanted at this club for several years. There was back page rumors a few weeks ago that we were trying to swap out Arshavin + cash for him and Verm's BFF at Ajax

Obviously not gonna happen but he's definitely someone who would fit this clubs model of doing business.

[sachmoney]

What do y'all think of Nuri Sahin? I saw him mentioned somewhere a few weeks ago as someone who, because of lack of playing time, might like out of RM.

<snip>

For the same financial reason, I agree with Sach that M'Vila probably isn't a realistic target. I also think he'd be a less-than-wise long term buy for the club. The club has defensive and holding midfielders coming up through the ranks; Frimpong, Coquelin and even Wilshere can fill that role; one of Frimpong or Coquelin probably will at some point. What they really lack are young attacking midfielders. Ramsey still has potential, but think of how poorly they played without Arteta all year long - they need someone who will take his place and, hopefully, be a whole lot better than him. No matter how many goals the defense conceded this year, it seemed like the bigger problem was that they had no idea how to turn lots of possession into goal-scoring chances. More often than not, long spells of Arsenal possession involved more lateral than diagonal passing, with three or four players lined up straight across the field. This allowed their opponents to remain organized and, when the ball was turned over, to break back the other way with speed.

Arsenal conceded the 8th fewest goals last season. City conceded 20 fewer goals and United conceded 16 fewer goals. That's a big difference. The defense is still a big problem. Arsenal actually scored 2 more goals than last season. Ideally, you'd always want to score more and concede fewer, but I think the defense is a bigger issue personally, especially after you've brought in Podolski.

Looking at the players we have:

Mikel Arteta - Why start with Arteta? Because he's the oldest. At 30, he has 3 years left on his deal and you have to wonder a little bit how much he can play going forward. He's had issues with his knee and his ankle in the last few years. He's still a good player, but I don't know if you can count on him for 45 games. He played in 41 games combined between Arsenal and Everton this season for what it's worth.

Alex Song - He's probably going to get a raise this Summer, so he should be around for the long-haul. The big issue with Song is his role on the team. As his passing ability improves and he becomes more important to the attack, what are you going to do to free him up to move up the pitch? He is the bread winner in the midfielder, but if new responsibilities are pulling him out of position, something is going to suffer.

Jack Wilshere - I see his situation similar to Song's. While he can win balls back for Arsenal, the big issue becomes his positioning. He's also a great play maker and played between Song and Fabregas last season [when he was still alive]. Obviously, he and Song can switch roles and things like that, but I still think you need someone to be in front of the back four, especially when the centerbacks are joining in on the attack.

Emmanuel Frimpong - I see Frimpong going on loan again because he's not ready. He's still very raw, like what Song was 2-3 years ago. I think Wenger seriously needs to have a talk with him about maturing and settling down. I love him as a character [#dench], but he seems more likely to become our Mario Balotelli at this point. I need to see more of him before I judge him. I love his toughness, but I need to see more of his positional acumen. A holding midfielder needs to be able to cover for multiple positions and not get thrown by the draw of the attack. I think Frimpong is 1-1 1/2 years away from really challenging for a starting XI place. At that time, Arteta will be nearing the end of his contract.

Francis Coquelin - I think Coquelin, like Arteta, does a good job of getting into passing lanes. I also like his versatility and I think in the short term, that is what will keep him in the squad, so long as he stays healthy. My big concern with Coquelin is his ability to compete physically. I thought he was overwhelmed against West Brom and he made Song's job more complicated. Song and Frimpong are as tough as they come and Wilshere is fearless. I'm not sure what we have in Coquelin.

So that brings me to M'Vila. I do think it's important to have a pure defensive midfielder. At the very least, it allows you tactical mobility. M'Vila is the type of player who frees up everyone. If a fullback charges up the pitch, he'll fill in there. If Verm or Kos decide to jump into the action, he can fill in there. He's never more than 10-15 yards ahead of his back four. His positioning and discipline are fantastic, and to me, would be a welcome addition and change for this club. He can still tackle and pass, but his disciplined positioning stands out to me.

You also have to keep in mind that you could lose Song for two of the next three Januarys with the ACN. It's the same possibility with Frimpong. Who will play the holding midfielder then? Long term, I think it does make sense to bring in M'Vila. He gives you flexibility, cover, and freedom. I think he'd be a fine addition to the club.

EDIT: Also, we released Manuel Almunia today. He was on something ridiculous like £60,000 per week wages. It'll be good to get him off the books.

Edited by sachmoney, 22 May 2012 - 02:32 PM.

[mikeford]

RIP England's #1

[sachmoney]

The latest rumor is that we've turned our attention to Etienne Capoue because Yann M'Vila might be too expensive. I don't know why City would want to add another defensive midfielder to the legions of defensive midfielders they already have [may be Mancini wasn't satisfied with their bus parking at the Emirates?], but it's good to see Arsene looking at multiple options that fulfill the club's needs. I think, at times in the past, he has focused to heavily on one target and that has hurt when it's fallen through.

From what I've seen of Capoue:

Wait, wait, wait, this is probably better, right [cannot embed]?

He's a very long, lanky player that makes good use of his length to disrupt opponents' runs/dribbling. He seems to be a good tackler and has some good foot skills. He was captain of his Toulouse side, which I think is important of a defensive/holding midfielder [being the glue/backbone of the team, you need to be a leader]. He's had a couple of nice headed goals off corners, so that's another plus.

It is interesting to see Capoue included in the Team of the Season for Ligue 1 over M'Vila. I think that he's a good player and would be a fine addition to Arsenal. At £10 million, he is a much better value and fits into the criteria we talked about up-thread.

We'll see what happens and how this develops.

[sachmoney]

Shit, I should put together a breakdown on Giroud at some point. Just came here to post this on Arteta:

Arteta missed six league games through injury in his debut season (having joined after the opening three matches of the campaign) and Arsenal's record for those fixtures was W1 D4 L4. The record for league games he did play in was W20 D3 L6. In all competitions his personal playing record was P38 W25 D5 L8 for a win percentage of 65.8. By way of comparison, Arsenal's overall win percentage for the season was 57.4.

With Arteta, Arsenal averaged 2.17 points per game (82 point pace). The club was significantly worse without him (7 points in 9 games). I don't know if this is 100% about Arteta so much as the fact that we had three good midfielders through out the season, considering Ramsey's abysmal form this past campaign. Without Arteta, it was like playing with 10 1/2 men with a major hole in the midfield. If Arsene can add some [quality] depth in the midfield for next season, we should be well equipped to challenge for something.

[sachmoney]

Arsenal really do have a player in Ox, the best move the manager is making is blooding him this early.

Funny that most of us were upset that Wenger was spending on a kid rather than bringing in players that could help the club immediately. I know I liked Ox, but I questioned Wenger's motives when he signed Ox instead of a replacement for Cesc or Nasri (at the time). Definitely happy that he is at Arsenal.

The real reason I dropped in here is because we might be closing in on Olivier Giroud:

Groover @GrooverBlog
Coach of Montpellier Girard said Arsenal has made a bid. The player wants to come to Arsenal. His club is ok to sell.

I know that he's rooming with Koscielny and the two of them were seen at the French Open together. It seems like Koscielny is doing a good recruiting job. If we do sign Giroud, I do not see him as a replacement for Van Persie, but more ammo for our attack. Keep in mind that Van Persie scored 39.3% of our total goals (37 of 94) and 41.7% of our league goals (30 of 72). Not only did we not score enough, but we relied on one player to score too high a percentage of our goals. By bringing in Podolski and Giroud, you're taking some of the pressure off Van Persie, though I don't expect him to have the type of season he had this year.

Speaking of Van Persie, FT Magazine had a great article/interview with him:

Although Robin van Persie is the best of his peers (he was voted Footballer of the Year 2011/2012 by both the Professional Footballers’ Association and Football Writers’ Association in England), he can still admire talent in others. In 2011, when I interviewed him again for Dutch television, he was fulsome in his praise of Dennis Bergkamp, his compatriot who was Arsenal’s resident genius when the 20-year-old Van Persie joined the club in 2004: “I had such gigantic respect for that man. I sat next to him in the changing room. He had number 10, I had number 11, so every day I sat next to my idol. I once saw a training session of his that was proof to me that this man is bizarre. I’d already finished, and I was sitting in the bubble bath watching him train ... They were doing a passing exercise. In that 45-minute session, he didn’t hit a single bad pass. He didn’t make a mistake, everything 100 per cent, to the maximum. Passing in really hard, receiving the ball, bouncing it back at once – so beautiful. I thought it was art. In that way he gave me the answers I was looking for. It was his drive and concentration that opened my eyes. From that day on I knew I had a long way to go if I ever wanted to reach that level. From then on, I did every exercise 100 per cent. Because I wanted to be like Bergkamp.”

Because of my love of Cesc:

Van Persie has repeatedly expressed his admiration for teammates Arteta, Alex Song and Theo Walcott. But he still misses the team’s former playmaker, Cesc Fàbregas, who, since moving to Barcelona, has been unable to find his old form. Van Persie calls Fàbregas’s assists “art”. He speaks lyrically about the frequency with which Fàbregas could put a forward unmarked in front of the keeper. Usually that forward was Van Persie.

“Cesc is slow, you know,” he told me. “With us he was one of the slowest. And yet he was the fastest of us all. He always thinks two seconds ahead. I’d sometimes think, ‘Why doesn’t the opponent take the ball from him?’ Then, peep, he’d do a little feint. At training once I was running three, four metres behind him. I caught up and thought, ‘Now I’ll get you.’ But with the point of his boot he gives – peep! – a tiny little pass for a one-two. That gives him another metre and a half. I catch up with him again, but – peep! – he suddenly turns away with a body feint. So irritating! We strikers could always expect a deep ball from him. Most midfielders look sideways first, and then maybe forward. Cesc always looked forward first.”

Relationship with his Dutch teammates:

A striker is dependent on supply, and in the 2010 World Cup Robin van Persie depended chiefly on Arjen Robben and Wesley Sneijder. While both are world-class, Robben doesn’t like sharing the ball, making him the target of his teammates’ ire at his club, Bayern Munich. Bayern’s Franck Ribéry recently gave him a black eye in a dispute over who was to take a free kick. In June 2011 Van Persie was substituted in a game against Brazil and uncharacteristically disappeared to the changing-room without a word: Robben had blatantly ignored him when he was totally unmarked in front of goal. Van Persie said afterwards, “I shouldn’t have walked away. That was wrong of me. But I just see football differently from Robben.”

It’s the same problem with Sneijder. Van Persie depends on his passes, but Sneijder always looks for his own chance first. He scored five times at the World Cup; Van Persie once. “However hard I find it to accept, I wasn’t on top of my game,” he told me in March 2011, adding: “In the whole World Cup, I was only put [through] in front of the keeper four or five times. Cesc did it four or five times a match.”

There's some good stuff about his youth and some other stuff. Worth a look.

[smokin joe wood]

An article on M'Vila's interest in Arsenal:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1105132/yann-m'vila-interested-in-arsenal-switch?cc=5901

[sachmoney]

It always seems like we have stretches of ridiculous runs of games. This season is no different. Arsenal start the season home against Sunderland and head to Stoke the next week. After that, it gets interesting as in the month of September, Arsenal faces Liverpool, defending Champion Manchester City, and European Champions Chelsea with newly promoted Southhampton mixed in. November features a similar challenge as they start at Manchester United and get Tottenham at home two weeks later. Arsenal ends the year at home against Newcastle.

January will again be difficult, and with the potential absences of Alex Song and Gervinho, Arsenal could struggle. They again face City, at Chelsea, and Liverpool. This is why it's so vital that Arsenal get a player like Yann M'Vila at least as cover for Song. Arsenal face Spurs at the beginning of March, Manchester United at the end of April, and Newcastle United the day after my birthday to end the season.

Here's the fixture list. We always seem to have some brutal stretches in the schedule and this season doesn't seem much different. I think January is the part that will make or break the season because it is a time where players are injured and others are going to the Africa Cup of Nations; it is the time of the season when squads, or at least Arsenal, seem most thin.

Edited by sachmoney, 18 June 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[sachmoney]

And meanwhile:

Sky Sports sources understand Arsenal have reached an agreement with Montpellier for striker Olivier Giroud.

The 25-year-old was the joint top-scorer in Ligue 1 last season with 21 goals and was instrumental in his side claiming the league title.

Arsene Wenger would have also been impressed with his all-round play which led to him providing nine assists for his team-mates.

[sachmoney]

Done.

[Snakebauer007]

Does Giroud+Podolsi mean a RVP exit is likely?

[Zomp]

Thats what a lot of the press are reporting.


How many strikers do City need?

[Spacemans Bong]

I'd rather just hold on to him for a year unless City are offering stupid money.

[teddykgb]

Scoring 6 at Old Trafford is exhausting. Gotta rotate strikers through so everyone gets a chance to make De Gea throw a fit.

Seriously though, I don't want him at City. He's a good player but I don't think he'll excel in our system and he's a bit old to be throwing huge money at. I'd rather he stayed at Arsenal or went to Juve. If he does come to City, I reserve the right to delete this post and act like I wanted him all along. If Tevez and Dzeko were to move, I think it might be different, as I don't think you can go into a season with just Balotelli and Aguero and youth, since Balotelli will likely miss a dozen games due to suspension.

[Zomp]

Yeah, well....your strikers only scored 5 that day.

[sachmoney]

We'll find out in the coming weeks.

I've both heard that bringing in Podolski and Giroud is to fortify the squad to supplement retaining Van Persie and that Giroud's signing means Van Persie is leaving. Conveniently after the signing of Giroud yesterday, there was a huge rumor that Van Persie had already left the club and was going to join City. I honestly can't see him joining that circus act. I'm not sure about other places. All of the speculation seems to be in the media as far as him leaving and I've heard nothing concrete. From what we have heard, his wife and mother have said publicly that they think he should stay. His father listed a bunch of clubs that he doesn't see Van Persie at. Van Persie complimented Juve, but he's been relatively quiet and we haven't heard from his agent. Most of the gossip you hear is all speculation.

It's frustrating because this is the one Summer over the last few that Wenger has acted early and added quality. It would be another blow to lose a player of Van Persie's caliber.

[mikeford]

Stop me if you've heard this one before: Jack Wilshere will miss the start of the season

[sachmoney]

Well.

[Royal Reader]

So do they hold onto him for one more year, sell him abroad, or let him go to Citeh or something?

[Lukiewerle]

His site is down likely due the massive spike in traffic.

"As announced earlier this year I had a meeting with the boss [Arsene Wenger] and Mr [Ivan] Gazidis after the season. This was a meeting about the club's future strategy and their policy. Financial terms or a contract have not been discussed, since that is not my priority at all.

"I personally have had a great season but my goal has been to win trophies with the team and to bring the club back to its glory days. Out of my huge respect for Mr Wenger, the players and the fans I don't want to go into any details, but unfortunately in this meeting it has again become clear to me that we in many aspects disagree on the way Arsenal should move forward.

"I've thought long and hard about it, but I have decided not to extend my contract. You guys, the fans, have of course the right to disagree with my view and decision and I will always respect your opinions.

"I love the club and the fans, no matter what happens. I have grown up and became a man during my time with Arsenal. Everybody at the club and the fans have always supported me over the years and I have always given my all (and more) on and off the pitch. I am very proud of being part of this fantastic club for the last eight years. As soon as Mr Gazidis is back from his two-week holiday in America further meetings will follow and I will update you if and when there are more developments."

Edited by Lukiewerle, 04 July 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[Dernells Casket n Flagon]

I say they sell him now while they can and he's at absolute peak value. This seemed like the obvious conclusion after they signed Giroud and Podolski.

There's a number of sources claiming that Arsenal is in on the hunt for French Keeper Hugo Lloris, but that Lyon is looking for about 16M pounds for him. He'd obviously be an upgrade over Szczesny, I'm a big fan of Wojciech and I'm not sure that's where Arsenal needs to be spending their money.

Edited by Dernells Casket n Flagon, 04 July 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[Spacemans Bong]

Do NOT sell him. Under no circumstances should he be sold. For two reasons:

1) who the fuck is he to dictate to us when he comes and goes. If he wants to do that he can pay us in kind for the 70 games he missed from being crocked. Same with Man City - who the fuck are they?

2) the best use of him is to win trophies and ensure further CL qualification. That comes by him playing. This year should be when CC Sabathia was a Brewer - you don't give a fuck about his pitch count because he's not yours next year. So he goes out on three days rest to get you into the playoffs and throws a complete game.

Tied game in the QF of the Carling Cup? He comes on. He plays in the fourth round of the FA Cup. He plays at home to Lech Poznan in the group stages. If he plays 70 games then no problem here - it means we got deep in the cups and if he's buggered by June then it's not our problem.

[mikeford]

They can't sell him now anyway since he just took away all their leverage. They'd be lucky to get a couple meat pies and a pint for him.

[cjdmadcow]

They have to sell him as there's no way a malcontent can hang around the squad having a detrimental effect on the rest, but as mike says they've lost all leverage they might have had by him publicly stating that he's not going to sign an extension. You simply cannot afford to let him walk away as a free agent next summer and not receive anything in return. He's worth £25m+ but you might be lucky to get £15m now.

City & PSG are the two obvious destinations but if Man Utd wanted to make a statement following their NYSE listing yesterday they might put in a cheeky bid.

[mikeford]

Sell him to that friggin team Eto'o plays for.

[Dernells Casket n Flagon]

They have plenty of leverage to sell him. As long as there's more than one team then you've got your leverage, and for a player with his skill there absolutely will be. I mean, they got 35M for Fabregas when everyone knew he was leaving and the only team he would ever go to was Barca.

[SoxFanInCali]

Arsenal weren't 12 months from losing Cesc for nothing, though.

They can do their best to get teams to bid against each other (or themselves) but the other teams know that Arsenal pretty much has to accept a bid.

[Spacemans Bong]

That's why you don't accept a bid.

15m? Fuck off, keep him. I know his letter was basically his way of trying to sabotage negotiations but don't let him get his way.

[DLew On Roids]

His agent would love to spike his transfer value, because if a team is willing to spend X on him, the transfer fee means he gets X - [transfer fee].

Juve were offering £10M this week. For that money you keep him, given the value of CL qualification and the hit your chances take if you sell him. For £18-20M, though? Sell.

Edited by DLew On Roids, 04 July 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[Tony the Pony]

1) who the fuck is he to dictate to us when he comes and goes.

Huh?!

Van Persie's got every right in the world saying he doesn't want to sign a new contract. at this time.

[Spacemans Bong]

He's got every right not to sign a new contract but not every right to try and force his way out of the club while he's still under contract.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 05 July 2012 - 03:00 AM.

[Apisith]

You'll get 20m+ for him. You got 22m for Nasri. Although he's s older, he's s also much better than Nasri. You don't t have to sell him. Just keep him and play him. Players can change their minds. Rooney did, for one.Who knows, if you win a title or two next year, stay in the Premiership race until March/April then he might stay. He's s never actually been fit for any of your title races, so it's pretty hypocritical for van Persie to talk about wanting to win trophies etc

Edited by Apisith, 05 July 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[SidelineCameras]

You'll get 20m+ for him. You got 22m for Nasri. Although he's s older, he's s also much better than Nasri. You don't t have to sell him. Just keep him and play him. Players can change their minds. Rooney did, for one.Who knows, if you win a title or two next year, stay in the Premiership race until March/April then he might stay. He's s never actually been fit for any of your title races, so it's pretty hypocritical for van Persie to talk about wanting to win trophies etc

This is mostly where I am. I'm still pretty new to these delightful transfer windows but it doesn't seem like RVP is a malcontent, or is banging on the door to get the hell out ASAP, just that he's not reupping at this time and wants to see more next year. Call me naive, but for some reason I sort of take him at his word on this.

Now all we have to do next season is win a trophy or two.

Edited by SidelineCameras, 05 July 2012 - 07:49 AM.

[soxfan121]

This is mostly where I am. I'm still pretty new to these delightful transfer windows but it doesn't seem like RVP is a malcontent, or is banging on the door to get the hell out ASAP, just that he's not reupping at this time and wants to see more next year. Call me naive, but for some reason I sort of take him at his word on this.

Now all we have to do next season is win a trophy or two.

Stop making sense or they're gonna kick you out of the fan club.

[mikeford]

World War 3 just broke out between Usmanov and Kroenke.

This is massive and unavailable to people in the US (had to use Witopia to make my IP look like it originated from London before I stopped getting 403 errors), so I'm pasting the entire letter below the spoiler.

Spoiler

To: The Board of Directors of Arsenal Holdings Plc:
Peter Hill-Wood,
Ivan Gazidis,
Ken Friar,
Sir Chips Keswick,
Lord Harris of Peckham,
Stanley Kroenke
With copy to:
David Miles,
Mark Gonnella
Re: Open Letter to the Board o(Directors o(Arsenal Holdings Pic (the "Club")
Dear Sirs,
5th July 2012
In recent weeks a couple of separate actions have occurred, which have caused us, as a near 30%
shareholder in the Club, to have serious concerns about the approach of the Board and the
management team:

• Firstly, there were some very deliberate and public comments by Ivan Gazidis which
were intended to leave the Club's supporters with an impression that Red & White is in
some bitter stand-off with the Board over its desire for a Board seat and that our
involvement on the Club's Board might cause conflict and "destabilize" the Club; and
• Secondly, OJSC MegaFon (Russia) received a cold call letter from Mr Gazidis requesting
a meeting to discuss a possible international partnership deal including shirt sponsorship.
MegaFon is one of the three largest mobile phone companies in Russia and also happens
to be over 50% owned by Alisher Usmanov. Is this really the level of professionalism
that is being applied to securing long-term commercial contracts?
Let us not forget that we have invested circa £200 million of cash in the equity of the Club. We
are part of this Club and naturally want the best for it, but our investment is less important than
the fact that we are loyal supporters and will never do anything that would destabilize or "create
conflict" at the Club.

We do however believe that you, the Board, and the executive management team should focus
your energies on the most efficient operation of the Club and desist from seeking to create a false
enemy in Red & White. In our view it is clear that you are trying to distract attention from the
more fundamental issues facing the Club, and which indeed many of the supporters discuss
through social media sites and other forums on a regular basis. These are the financial model,
the lack of investment and the Club's future strategic direction.

However, before addressing these points, it is important to deal with the issues surrounding a
Board seat for Red & White once and for all. As you all know well, Mr Usmanov has never
sought for himself a Board seat at the Club. Indeed Mr Usmanov does not hold any board seat in
any of the companies where he is an investor. Since the purchase of our first share in the Club,
we have not only steadfastly adhered to a policy of non-interference in the running of the Club,
but have consistently supported the management and given no reason whatsoever to be accused
of subversion or sabotage. The history of our voting in support of the Board at the annual
general meetings is proof of this.

Indeed, in any conversation about conflict, it is clear from a look at the history of the Club in
recent years that the Board has achieved conflict without the help of any outside parties, notably
the aclimonious departures of David Dein, Keith Edelman, Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith and
Richard Carr, who then reappeared on the Football Club Board. You also instituted a lock-down
agreement oliginally to prevent Mr Kroenke from gaining control and then, later, to exclude our
involvement even though there were no grounds or need to do so.

The real conflict seems to be between the supporters' expectations and your vision for the Club
and at the heart of this is the policy of so-called self-financing. The self-fmancing model was
created to suit the major shareholders at the time, all of whom subsequently sold their shares.
The previous decision by the Board to fund the building of the Emirates Stadium with long-term
debt was, we believe, certainly not about self-financing. If it had been, it would have been
funded through a mixture of debt and non-dividend equity. Instead it allowed, in our view, the
major shareholders of the time, who happened to all be Board directors, to load the Club with a
liability, to benefit from increased future revenue streams and consequent increase in the value of
their holdings, whilst avoiding dilution of their equity. The Board of the time then appeared to
pursue a policy of increasing ticket prices and squeezing the fans to cover the short term cost
increases which allowed them to bridge until all of these shareholders and Board directors sold
100% of their holdings and cashed out at vast profits.

This policy does not seem to have changed. We have sought and been refused any meetings with
Mr Kroenke despite the fact that we own almost 30% of the Club or to put another way almost 1
in every 3 seats in the stadium. It is clear that our stated policy for the major shareholders,
namely Mr Kroenke and ourselves, to inject non-dividend paying equity into the Club by way of
a rights issue to reduce the debt and invest in the future is of no interest to the Board. Mr
Kroenke was sold a vision by the Board at the time that the Club could be successful without
further investment, so he is pursuing a similar policy which is to run the Club without any
investment and to avoid any dilution of his equity, a good part of which was funded by a loan
from Deutsche Bank AG to KSE, UK, Inc. at the time of the mandatory offer. The status of that
loan and whether it is still outstanding has not been clarified by Mr Kroenke.

As a consequence of this policy, which is dressed up as prudent financial planning, it is down to
our manager, and not the shareholders, to have to deal with the Club's tight finances, carry the
burden of repaying the stadium debt by selling his best players and having to continue to find
cheaper replacements. All of that, naturally, comes at the expense of performance on the pitch.
This policy is leading to the loss of our best players, often to our main competitors, and even
causes the players themselves to question their future at the Club and the Club's ambitions. The
situation with our captain and outstanding performer from last season Robin van Persie sums this
up. Yet again we are faced with losing our true marquee player at the Club because we cannot
assure him of the future direction and give confidence that we can win trophies. Where are the
safeguards to ensure that this doesn't happen again and again in the future? As a top Club we
should, at the very least, match if not beat the offers that other clubs make to try and lure our
very best players away, and also provide a more compelling vision of the future. You can try
and put a good face on a bad game for as long as you want, pontificating about the merits of this
model, but it will not hide the obvious fact that it just does not allow our great manager to fully
realize his managerial talent and deliver success for the fans who are paying the highest prices in
the land. It appears that a place in the Champions League will be the pinnacle of our ambition
again next season. Unfortunately, in the future we may see this ambition lowered further. It
doesn't help to tum a blind eye to the reality of the situation and keep thinking of ourselves as
being in the same league as Real Madrid, Chelsea, Manchester City and Barcelona. To have a
fighting chance of success, which means winning trophies, we need to match them in every
aspect, including, if not first and foremost, financial.

So what is Red & White's vision for the Club? It is simple. A debt free Club, with a big enough
war chest to buy top talent players who can hit the ground running and who can complement the
Club's long tradition of developing young players and homegrown talent. Together they can
help the Club win the most prestigious trophies - because it is the trophies which are the
crowning achievement for everybody at the Club. The trophies are also key to the commercial
success of the Club - they increase the value of the players, the value of the brand, attract the
best sponsors and maximize the value of our commercial contracts which should in tum mean
that the Club does not have to squeeze any more income from hard pressed fans. We also
believe in the transparency that a stock market listing brings so are committed to the Club
remaining listed on the stock exchange and to greater fan involvement both through share
ownership and also Board representation for the fans.

Today we wish the majority shareholder Mr Kroenke every success in running the Club, even
though we have deep reservations about the viability of the policies being pursued by his
management team and sanctioned by the Board.

Finally and reflecting our long-term commitment to the Club, we will continue to purchase more
shares in the Club from anyone who wants to sell them to us. Also in order to formalize our
long-term involvement with the Club and put an end to any speculation over our position, we, as
the co-owners of Red &White, will proudly retain our holding in the Club as a long-term
investment for ourselves and our family members to benefit for generations to come. We want
the absolute best for the Club and will do what is necessary to ensure the success of the Club that
we all love.

[mikeford]

Ugh.


Edited for clearer picture.

Edited by mikeford, 11 July 2012 - 12:38 PM.

[cjdmadcow]

Wow! If that's real...wow!

I thought our Purple Warrior third-kit was bad but that is just shocking.

[PedroSpecialK]

[mikeford]

Wow! If that's real...wow!

I thought our Purple Warrior third-kit was bad but that is just shocking.

Nothing is as bad as that 3rd kit.

Nothing.

This doesn't have tribal tattoo design on the sleeves at least.

[SoxFanInCali]

Yeah, but this is your away kit, which will be worn a lot more often than our 3rd kit will.