41 replies to this topic

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Josh Beckett is turning into Manny Ramirez. Someone who's done a lot for this team in the past, but in this "what have you done for me lately" enviornment, is rapidly falling out of favor with the fans and organization because of a lackadaisical and selfish attitude. Manny's head was no longer in the game here for whatever reasons and it seems that Josh has already settled into the same mindset. I don't think that it's wrong to look at what said player is doing now as opposed to rehashing the past to rationally pass judgement.

Proffesional sports is one of the only jobs I can think of in which you get paid for what you've done and are not given a pay cut if you under-perform. That in itself seethes entitlement. I don't expect someone who makes $16 million a year to throw a baseball every 5 days to give a crap what I think, but it goes both ways. He shouldn't expect any of us to care about his "hardships" either.

Is Beckett an asshole? Of course, but he was our asshole. Was Manny a head-case. Of course, but he was our head-case. All of their baggage was easier to deal with when they were performing. When the ability fades and the attitudes change and the anger gets directed inward instead of at the opposition that's when a change needs to be made. Do I appreciate what they did here? Absolutely, but I don't need to be reminded of what they DID every time they screw up NOW. Don't get me wrong what they did brought some of the happiest and most exciting moments of my entire life, but in life there's always a time when things need to be let go no matter how cherished they used to be.

Josh Beckett was one of the best pitchers to ever play for this organization. Unfortunately none of that matters for this team as it presently stands. It's becoming more and more evident that a change needs to be made. I'm not on board with blowing this team up, but something needs to be done with him.

[alwyn96]

The media is really getting its two minutes hate on with Beckett - I think Edes basically implied that Beckett murdered Carl Beane, and that he's some sort of crazed sociopath who "infects" people with bad thoughts against their will. This is a situation where Valentine should probably step up to either vigorously defend Beckett (who has certainly been crappy this season, but the character-assassination is downright insane and unproductive) or call him out or whatever. Francona was the type to do this behind closed doors and defend the player in a low-key way to the press - ownership decided that didn't work, and they brought Valentine on board to try a different direction. Hopefully whichever direction he goes, Valentine can coax a decent performance out of him.

[jnlevetoncnmt]

The Red Sox have given up the most runs in all of baseball so far this year.

Boston needs Beckett more than Beckett needs Boston, and he knows this. With his attitude and injury history I don't think Ben will be able to get any kind of overpay in prospects. We really need starting pitching.

[collings94]

I'm still going with the Manny approach here, as long as Beckett plays well, I don't care how much of a prick he is. But when a prick like Beckett starts getting hammered, everybody hates him really quick.

[ifmanis5]

Fat idiot golfer made Yahoo's front page.

Edited by ifmanis5, 11 May 2012 - 10:15 PM.

[Bone Chips]

The media is really getting its two minutes hate on with Beckett - I think Edes basically implied that Beckett murdered Carl Beane, and that he's some sort of crazed sociopath who "infects" people with bad thoughts against their will.

Wow. The Beckett defenders have now resorted to blaming the media. I guess sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

In my opinion what Beckett has done here, and continues to do, is give a big old middle finger to the unentitled majority that has to play by the rules on a daily basis. Boston in particular has a long history of rebelling against this type of detachment and entitlement. I can guarantee one thing - this story, and these feelings, will not just go away - whether the evil media reports on it or not.

[alwyn96]

The Beckett defenders? Get a grip, dude. He is a baseball pitcher who isn't pitching well.

Edited by alwyn96, 11 May 2012 - 10:17 PM.

[Bone Chips]

The Beckett defenders? Get a grip, dude. He is a baseball pitcher who isn't pitching well.

Yes, Beckett defender. Aren't you the same guy who said in the "Blow it up" thread that chickengate and the other Beckett controversies were "made up"? Talk about get a grip.

[Sampo Gida]

Beckett had one great year in 2007, but for years he has been treated and pampered as an ace by team, fans and writers.

Beckett has not changed one bit, except he has lots 3 mph off his best FB and can be counted on to fade or be injured sometime in Aug/Sep/Oct

Aug/Sep-Oct/Post Season ERA

2008 - 5.82/2.16/8+
2009- 5.03/4.14/5.4
2010- 6.03/4.50/
2011- 3.89/5.48/

The annual ritual at the start of every ST in recent years has been Becketts gut watch, which shows his commitment to off-season conditioning. Last year before the collapse he was whining about the schedule, too many chartered flights and 5 star hotels in a short period for his taste. Tough guy? I think not.

In 2010 he was in a contract year yet still reported to camp with his usual paunch. Despite a poor finish to 2009, he still put up decent numbers and he was poised for a big pay day if he could have a great year in 2010. Yet he chose to sign what was considered at the time a team friendly extension in April of 2010. At the time I said this could be a catch-22 situation, and that Beckett might be signing the extension because he does not think he would have a good 2010. Sure enough, he was awful and went to the DL in May with what we were told was a back problem.

His FB velocity had dropped in 2010, and never recovered even after his back was ok. This is a guy who has had labrum and rotator cuff problems and chose conservative treatment over surgery with good results, so it is always something to consider when he skips a start or goes on the DL.

In 2011, he had a great 5 months, but faltered in September due to a sprained ankle. So whatever ailed him in 2010, he was able to recover and adjust to pitching with a diminished FB effectively.

In 2012, he pitched well after an awful 1st start until being left in to throw 126 pitches and experiencing more soreness than usual after the game. As a result, the Red Sox decided to skip his next start to give him additional rest. According to some reports, Beckett wanted to pitch on schedule but was not allowed to. If so, it is doubtful Bobby V uses him in the 17th inning game, even if he volunteered, as this would have required him to come into the game on an abbreviated warm up relative to his starter routine

As for the golf outing, to me it is a non-issue if he had wanted to make his scheduled start. What bothered most people was his answers to the questions, showing what he really thinks of the fans and the team.

Beckett has his guaranteed contract and can't be traded w/o permission. Nothing anyone can do to him, and he has a strong union behind him if the Red Sox try to discipline him for anything but the most flagrant violation of the rules.

So all you can do is hope Beckett pitches well over the next 2 1/2 years. As big a jerk as I think Beckett is, even he does not want to embarrass himself on the mound. Most players are competitive and have pride, so if he is physically OK, I think he should pitch ok, at least until August/September when he usually fades away due to poor conditioning and/or arm/back/neck/etc problems.
.

Edited by Sampo Gida, 11 May 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[alwyn96]

Talk about get a grip.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about? I don't care about Josh Beckett. He is a currently underperforming player on a baseball team. I don't think getting worked up into a frenzy over a man eating chicken makes a lot of sense. Beckett's been heavy for years and pitchers have been getting fat for a long time. Fat pitchers actually seem a little more durable than thin ones.

I'm apparently in the minority on this, but what Beckett thinks about the fans or whatever doesn't really interest me. Baseball players are dumb. They are not my heros. They're big jocks who happen to be awesome at a sport I love. I don't watch baseball to see a bunch of really nice people doing nice things. Maybe they have a league for that somewhere,* but I watch to see them do amazing things I could never, ever do. Beckett does seem like a jerk on the mound, but his teammates seem to like him, so who knows? I'm pretty reluctant to make judgments about people's character unless I actually know them. (Except Julio Lugo. I did not like that guy.)

But like Sampo said, let's all just hope Beckett can figure out whatever it is that's ailing him, because he's likely to stick around for a few more years.

*I kind of like this idea! Maybe the MVP is the nicest guy in the league, and they give the batting title to the guy who gives the most hugs? Something like that.

Edited by alwyn96, 11 May 2012 - 11:46 PM.

[touchstone033]

I'm apparently in the minority on this, but what Beckett thinks about the fans or whatever doesn't really interest me. Baseball players are dumb. They are not my heros. They're big jocks who happen to be awesome at a sport I love. I don't watch baseball to see a bunch of really nice people doing nice things. Maybe they have a league for that somewhere,* but I watch to see them do amazing things I could never, ever do. Beckett does seem like a jerk on the mound, but his teammates seem to like him, so who knows? I'm pretty reluctant to make judgments about people's character unless I actually know them. (Except Julio Lugo. I did not like that guy.)...

*I kind of like this idea! Maybe the MVP is the nicest guy in the league, and they give the batting title to the guy who gives the most hugs? Something like that.

I get this, I really do, and agree with it about 85%. But baseball is also entertainment, and -- maybe it's just me -- I often develop irrational emotional attachments to ballplayers based on how they play the game and present themselves. And some teams are just likable, and some are downright unlikable. And, yes, just as hunger is the best sauce for any dish, winning makes players and teams a lot more likable.

That said, I thought I'd throw out my "likable" Red Sox All Stars!

C: Jason Varitek
1B: George Scott
2B: Dustin Pedroia
3B: Bill Mueller
SS: Orlando Cabrera
OF: Fred Lynn
OF: Ellis Burks
OF: Dwight Evans
DH: David Ortiz
SP: Luis Tiant
SP: Bruce Hurst
SP: Mike Boddicker
SP: Tim Wakefield
RP: Mike Timlin
RP: Bob Stanley
RP: Rich Garces

[alwyn96]

That said, I thought I'd throw out my "likable" Red Sox All Stars!

Totally! Baseball is supposed to be fun! There's a weird joylessness that seems to creep into Boston sports fandom that makes it less fun sometimes. Some guys just play with a certain joy, or panache, that is just irresistible. I'd have to add:

2B: Mark Bellhorn (I loved his Three True Outcomes game, and that he was so without affect that he appeared to have some sort of mental disorder)
3B: Adrian Beltre (Some of the most raw talent I've seen in a player - making crazy plays at 3B, hitting HR from his knees, his weird 'don't touch my head' thing, amazing)
OF: Manny (at his best, he was one of the best hitters I've seen, he seemed to have an almost-childlike joy in baseball)
P: Pedro! (Maybe the best pitcher ever. Just a pitching genius. Intimidating and arrogant and silly and awe-inspiring. Hands down my favorite player.)

Of course, I'm under no illusions about who these guys are. The most lovable player might be a terrible person in real life, and the worst, most evil jerk on the field might actually be some kind of saint away from it. Beckett doesn't seem like a wonderful person on the mound, but he can have his moments.

Edited by alwyn96, 12 May 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[SoxLegacy]

That said, I thought I'd throw out my "likable" Red Sox All Stars!

Totally! Baseball is supposed to be fun! There's a weird joylessness that seems to creep into Boston sports fandom that makes it less fun sometimes. Some guys just play with a certain joy, or panache, that is just irresistible. I'd have to add:

Two terrific points! It should be fun, and I agree that there is some strange phenomena that occurs at times to make less fun. Hopefully attending my very first game at Fenway this year, and while I hope that the Sox 1) are playing better ball by July and 2) win the game I attend, I plan on having a great time at Fenway no matter what the Sox record is or who wins.

As to my "likeable Red Sox stars" Touchstone and Alwyn have 'em pretty well covered!

1B: Scott
2B Pedey!
3B: Mueller
SS: Cabrera
OF: Lynn
OF: Burks
OF: Evans
C: 'Tek
DH: Papi
SP: Pedro
SP: Hurst
SP: Tiant
SP: Wakefield
RP: Timlin

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Guess this started as somewhat of a rant and a bunch of thoughts I wanted to get out. Samp made some good points and added some hard facts but not sure where its headed now.

The likeable Red Sox lists are fun (and well done, I can't argue with any of those) but not really what this was intended for.

If the mods want to keep it, cool, if not feel free to delete.

[SoxLegacy]

Guess this started as somewhat of a rant and a bunch of thoughts I wanted to get out. Samp made some good points and added some hard facts but not sure where its headed now.

The likeable Red Sox lists are fun (and well done, I can't argue with any of those) but not really what this was intended for.

If the mods want to keep it, cool, if not feel free to delete.

Eck, I completely agree with your initial post--took the words right out my mouth almost entirely. Sorry for the hijack--perhaps the mods can delete the posts of put them in another thread?

[Towney007]

Gordon Edes shoe-horning the juxtaposition of a team mourning a guy who died on one side of a room and a self-arrogant jerk on the other was one of the most desperate attempt to shoehorn B.S. narrative into the lead of a story I've ever seen in my life. It just feeds into the frantic stupidity of the fans lately - who've turned the age-old Boston sports fan gimmick being perpetually nervous into a contest between them to see who can fake-faint onto the couch harder.

Now we're seriously hen-pecking at what people do on their off days. And people are literally that functionally retarded to *seriously* think that it's the team that's embarrassing...

[touchstone033]

The likeable Red Sox lists are fun (and well done, I can't argue with any of those) but not really what this was intended for.

If the mods want to keep it, cool, if not feel free to delete.

I'll tell you what, I'll start an "unlikable" list and stick Beckett on it, and we can get back on topic.

In fact, let's call 'em the "Josh Beckett All Starts."

Okay:

C: Jim Leyritz
1B:
2B: Jose Offerman
3B: Shea Hillenbrand
SS: John Valentin
OF: Carl Everett
OF: JD Drew
OF: Wil Codero
DH: Jack Clark
SP: Josh Beckett
SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Matt Young
RP: Bobby Jenks
RP: Rob Murphy
RP: Ugueth Urbina

Surely there must be an unlikable first baseman that played for the Red Sox! Help me out here!

[etakbear]

Can't think of an unlikable 1st baseman, but I'm tossing in Mike Lowell on the nice guy all star team.

As for Beckett, I did not know he was an asshole all along but starting last Sept I started thinking that he probably is the clubhouse cancer and needs to go or go to rehab in AZ or something to separate him from the team and then maybe they'll start acting like a team again.

[paulb0t]

Josh Valentin over Lugo or Renteria?

I don't remember there really being any notable clubhouse problems with Valentin, except for some grumblings from him when Nomar came up (which was somewhat understandable, since he was a pretty good offensive shortshop).

Back on point, I think that Josh Beckett's assholishness is acceptable, so long as he performs at his general level of excellence. And, he has been excellent in 3 seasons in Boston, and pretty good in one other. SoSH as a whole loved Josh's f-bomb filled press-conferences when the team as a whole was playing well. We knew he was unapologetic, and we loved him for it. Now that the sky is falling, it's been flipped over to him being the root of all evil.

Which is fine, I guess. If you think the Sox are done this year and next, and you can trade him for fair value, I suppose you do the deal. I'm not for grabbing the tar and feathers and driving him out at ten cents on the dollar, though.

[touchstone033]

Josh Valentin over Lugo or Renteria?

I don't remember there really being any notable clubhouse problems with Valentin, except for some grumblings from him when Nomar came up (which was somewhat understandable, since he was a pretty good offensive shortshop).

Good point about Valentin. I was stretching there. I just remember him sulking all the time. It was probably having to move to third to make room for Nomar.

That said, I immediately felt bad making this list. I mean, some of these guys -- Urbina, Codero, Everett -- are genuinely really bad people, and your run-of-the-mill discontents like JD Drew or Josh Beckett don't really deserve to be placed alongside them in a list.

[alwyn96]

and your run-of-the-mill discontents like JD Drew or Josh Beckett don't really deserve to be placed alongside them in a list.


In order to express discontent, JD Drew would have to be capable of expressing actual human emotion, which I think we all know is impossible.

Edited by alwyn96, 13 May 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Papo The Snow Tiger]

At first base Wil Cordero, one game each in 1996 and 1997. Put Jose Canseco in th OF and we're all set.

[Papo The Snow Tiger]

At first base Wil Cordero, one game each in 1996 and 1997. Put Jose Canseco in th OF and we're all set.

On second thought, Jose Offerman played lots of 1B for the Sox from 2000 through 2002. Let him and Cordero flip flop.

[sancap14]

"The Beckett defenders? Get a grip, dude. He is a baseball pitcher who isn't pitching well."

Beckett hasn't pitched well since last August. It's more than that and you know it.

[paulb0t]

Josh Beckett had a pretty severe ankle injury in August that he (apparently) attempted to pitch through after a DL stint. So, yeah, there's more than that.

He also strung together 4 consecutive good starts prior to golf-gate and his recent shellacking at the hands of the Indians.

[alwyn96]

Beckett hasn't pitched well since last August. It's more than that and you know it.

It's more than what? I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Did he suck a couple days ago? You bet. But he was awesome most of last year (he would have had the 3rd best ERA in the league had he not tried to pitch through injury), and he's had several quality starts this year - he's had 2 blow-outs, but has pitched decently otherwise.

People may have forgotten that Beckett sprained his ankle last September and tried to gut out a few more starts because it was either that or even more 7.66 ERA Kyle Weiland. Of course, not many Red Sox have pitched very well since last August:

August 2011 ERA
Beckett - 5.48
Lester - 5.40
Bard - 10.64
Buchholz - injured in June
Doubront - in AAA
Albers: 7.20
Morales - 4.00
Aceves - 1.80

Aceves was really the only one who pitched well in September, while Beckett was pitching through an injury. No one's exactly been covering themselves in glory lately.

Edited by alwyn96, 13 May 2012 - 11:54 PM.

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Boston Red Sox's Josh Beckett is long on motivation, if hazy on ...

The ankle injury was never used as an excuse, but his focus was, and I mean that overall. He's lost focus with his work ethic as well as the importance of his job. It's obvious that baseball is no longer a priority to him and he is beyond not apologizing for it. I'm not going to label him a clubhouse malcontent, because there are no definitive facts supporting that, but his horrendous attitude could be mirrored by others on the team if it continues to be coddled.

Josh Beckett : ‘I want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem’

In that interview he tries to say all the right things but it ends up being muddled in more excuses. He admits to being distracted again this time by all the talk leading up to his start against Cleveland. His head is clearly not in the game right now and it's the driving factor behind his poor performances.

[wine111]

I vote for Rick Burleson on the likeable list for SS over Orlando Cabrera.

Josh Beckett was acquired to be the ace of this staff. He is too fragile and inconsistent to carry that mantle. The team is getting good overall numbers from him, but the question that has to be asked is how well will Josh Beckett do as he gets older. Given how fragile and inconsistent he has been in his prime, the outlook has to be questionable.

In 3 seasons out of 6, he has been more like a number 3 or 4 starter rather than a number 2, as his earned.run average was just above 4 in one of those years and above 5 in two of them. This is not Roy Halladay, Justin Verlander or anyone like that. That being said, we cannot just give him away. He is losing some velocity, but he has time to convert to more of a pitcher than a thrower. Is he wearing down mentally from the scrutiny in Boston? Is it sapping his competitive edge?

This may be a prime case where Josh can re-emerge after a change of scenery (especially in the N.L.) and still has trade value as a result. Perhaps Beckett could be traded to Atlanta for a package that includes Randall Delgado (which would require us taking at least 50 % of Beckett's salary IMO). The Braves could use an experienced arm to support what looks like a high probability of getting into the playoffs. Once they get there, a rejuvenated Beckett could be a real boost for them. Delgado, who is 22, has some issues with control, but he also has a strong arm (said to have a 92-96 mph fastball with movement with developing curve and changeup with plus potential). The Braves are moving him up too fast. If the Sox are out of the race at the July trading deadline, getting Delgado and another prospect or two and letting Delgado develop along with Ranaudo and Barnes in our minor leagues could work out pretty well. The Sox may decide to trade Beckett even if they are still in the race, a la Nomar in 2004.

Edited by wine111, 14 May 2012 - 06:02 PM.

[touchstone033]

I vote for Rick Burleson on the likeable list for SS over Orlando Cabrera.

I thought about that one, too.

You know, it's telling that we could probably put together a second- and third-team all-nice-guy squad, but had some trouble filling out the Beckett All-Stars. Guys like Tony Pena, Cody Ross, Ryan Kalish, Mike Lowell, Rico Petricelli, Mike Cameron, Victor Martinez, Kevin Millar and on and on, I enjoyed watching or rooting for (not necessarily the same thing, heh). There are really only a few players I actively dislike...

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

His performance today showed me that he still cares about the game and he can still focus on what needs to be done. I'm pleasantly surprised he went out and did what he needed to. It's nice to be proven wrong sometimes. Although he's still an ass and his attitude sucks, if he continues to look the way he did today he's going to shut a lot of people up.

Edited by Eck'sSneakyCheese, 15 May 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[touchstone033]

His performance today showed me that he still cares about the game and he can still focus on what needs to be done. I'm pleasantly surprised he went out and did what he needed to. It's nice to be proven wrong sometimes. Although he's still an ass and his attitude sucks, if he continues to look the way he did today he's going to shut a lot of people up.

I'd love to be shown up by that pr*ck. Still, I'm not ready to say he's "fixed" yet. Let's see what he can do against a major-league offense first.

[alwyn96]

I'd love to be shown up by that pr*ck. Still, I'm not ready to say he's "fixed" yet. Let's see what he can do against a major-league offense first.

Seattle's lineup can certainly do wonders for making your rotation look better. But what is your hypothesis here? That Beckett was pitching through injury in his game against Cleveland, and despite today's results is still injured? I suppose that's possible, but I suspect they skipped Beckett more to make sure Cook didn't opt out than any serious concern about Beckett's injury. I wonder if the long layoff between starts could have made him a little rusty. Beckett was pretty good for 4 out of 5 starts before the lousy Cleveland game.

Edited by alwyn96, 15 May 2012 - 07:09 PM.

[Hairy Kerry]

His performance today showed me that he still cares about the game and he can still focus on what needs to be done. I'm pleasantly surprised he went out and did what he needed to. It's nice to be proven wrong sometimes. Although he's still an ass and his attitude sucks, if he continues to look the way he did today he's going to shut a lot of people up.

After the last game I was concerned about his desire and pride levels, especially after his press conference. If he can string some quality starts together, I'll feel better about his adjustment to the 91-92 velocity level.

[keyalyn]

After the last game I was concerned about his desire and pride levels, especially after his press conference. If he can string some quality starts together, I'll feel better about his adjustment to the 91-92 velocity level.

Which is exactly what he was doing prior to the Cleveland start. He has pitched a quality start or better in 5 of his last 6 games, and overall has a 3.89ERA with great peripherals in that span. The start in Cleveland combined with the news about him going golfing has greatly overshadowed that more often than not he has been pitching well this season.

Edited by keyalyn, 16 May 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[Hairy Kerry]

The Cleveland start made him look like he was done. The press conference made him sound like he didn't care if he was done. He has been better more often than not this year, prior to Cleveland. Maybe at 32 we shouldn't expect him to pitch like a 27 year old. The odd poor start is probably baked in going forward. I'll take an ERA around 4 and his post season swag. Some call him an asshole, but that's part of he package and what makes him good on the mound. I don't care if he signs for kids (have no idea if he does or not) or interviews well. I care how he pitches.

Edited by Hairy Kerry, 16 May 2012 - 09:34 AM.

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

The Cleveland start made him look like he was done. The press conference made him sound like he didn't care if he was done. He has been better more often than not this year, prior to Cleveland. Maybe at 32 we shouldn't expect him to pitch like a 27 year old. The odd poor start is probably baked in going forward. I'll take an ERA around 4 and his post season swag. Some call him an asshole, but that's part of he package and what makes him good on the mound. I don't care if he signs for kids (have no idea if he does or not) or interviews well. I care how he pitches.

It's only a problem when the attitude interferes with the performance. He's a great pitcher when he's angry at the competition, not so much when it's directed at the media or teammates or coaching staff.

It was justifiable to question him after what occured last week based on what facts were presented before the whole story became convoluted. This isn't the first time his heart or focus has been questioned and it probably won't be the last. I'm sure there will be another "injury" as the year goes on.

It's arguable that distraction played a large part in both his Detroit start and his Cleveland start when his performances suffered.

I'd love to be shown up by that pr*ck. Still, I'm not ready to say he's "fixed" yet. Let's see what he can do against a major-league offense first.

I agree. His next two starts against the Phils and the Rays should provide a little more competition and will be a better gauge. I'm not taking anything away from what he did yesterday, it may have been a weak lineup but he pitched very well and with purpose. He had great movement and great location.

After the last game I was concerned about his desire and pride levels, especially after his press conference. If he can string some quality starts together, I'll feel better about his adjustment to the 91-92 velocity level.

His average velocity is only 1 mph less than what it was last year and it's still early. I'd be more concerned about his desire than his fastball velocity. He can pitch extremely well when he wants to.

[Hairy Kerry]

He is such a hot mess. I just hope he finds that snitch soon so he can turn that page...........

[Sampo Gida]

Seattle's lineup can certainly do wonders for making your rotation look better. But what is your hypothesis here? That Beckett was pitching through injury in his game against Cleveland, and despite today's results is still injured? I suppose that's possible, but I suspect they skipped Beckett more to make sure Cook didn't opt out than any serious concern about Beckett's injury. I wonder if the long layoff between starts could have made him a little rusty. Beckett was pretty good for 4 out of 5 starts before the lousy Cleveland game.

One can make an argument that most pitchers are pitching through a sore ( injured) something(shoulder/elbow/lat) since pitching is such an unnatural act. Beckett had a labrum tear with the Marlins that was never surgically repaired and had an elbow problem in 2008 that required him to make a trip to see Dr Andrews who judged he could do without surgery and opt for the conservative approach.

He has lost almost 3 mph off his FB since 2009. Some of that may be age related, but who knows what shape his arm is in.

So when a guy who is 32 and throws a career high number of pitches experiences more soreness than usual, he may not be "injured", but the prudent course of action would be to skip a start, especially as you have a guy like Cook who could step in.

You raise a good point about his poor performance against the Indians being due to 10 days between starts, but it could also be the number of LHB'ers the Indians had. LHB'ers have hit him pretty well the past couple of years.

So while the Indians may not be a good game to judge Beckett, like you said, neither is the Mariners game (or any single game really). I think Daisuke faced better hitters with Pawtucket and the ump had a generous strike zone, and there were some loud outs and 2 almost HR's.

That said, Becketts been the teams best starter for over a year, aside from an awful September and 2 bad starts in 2012, so he should be ok the rest of the way if his health does not deteriorate.

[alwyn96]

That said, Becketts been the teams best starter for over a year, aside from an awful September and 2 bad starts in 2012, so he should be ok the rest of the way if his health does not deteriorate.

Yep, like any pitcher he has his ups and downs and needs to stay healthy, but his work ethic is apparently pretty strong, so you'd hope he'd age ok. Trading him is only a good idea if you get something awesome (doubtful) and you're giving up on the season, which seems crazy since the Red Sox are only 3 games out of the wild card race in mid-May.

Edited by alwyn96, 16 May 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Yep, like any pitcher he has his ups and downs and needs to stay healthy, but his work ethic is apparently pretty strong, so you'd hope he'd age ok. Trading him is only a good idea if you get something awesome (doubtful) and you're giving up on the season, which seems crazy since the Red Sox are only 3 games out of the wild card race in mid-May.

As far as the article you quoted, Smoltz was with the team 3 yrs ago. It's a fluff piece. It has no relevance when it comes to 2010 and on.

So when a guy who is 32 and throws a career high number of pitches experiences more soreness than usual, he may not be "injured", but the prudent course of action would be to skip a start, especially as you have a guy like Cook who could step in.

And not play 27 holes of golf a few days later.

You can't ignore the fact that his personality effects his performance, both good and bad.

[alwyn96]

As far as the article you quoted, Smoltz was with the team 3 yrs ago. It's a fluff piece. It has no relevance when it comes to 2010 and on.

None of us know exactly what Beckett does for training, or how it compares to what other successful pitchers do. Obviously a pitcher's training can change over time, but to say it has no relevance is a wild overstatement. If you have some specific information about Beckett's training regimen in 2010 I'd love to hear it.

Edited by alwyn96, 17 May 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

I agree none of us know specifically what he did or what he's doing now, really it's more of an educated guess.

They're working on their third different pitching coach in 3 yrs, I'm sure training regimens have changed, and I'm also sure that the organization fired the training staff last year for a reason. It's not a wild overstatement to say that his workouts in 2009 have changed from year to year especially since he was hurt for a good portion of 2010.