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Beckett to skip 5/5 start due to "stiffness" (No DL... yet)


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#251 YTF

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:49 AM

This still sort of stinks to me and not sure where the smell is coming from. If this is true why wouldn't the organisation repeatedly put this out there to try to take media and fan scrutiny off of Beckett and avoid the shit show that would obviously follow?

#252 StuckOnYouk

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:49 AM

Because Beckett is one dumb defiant sumbitch and he'll be damned if he gives the press the blood in the water they're looking for. It makes him look petulant and childish, but that's seemingly the way he's wired.

But not saying that he was perfectly fine to take the ball is giving the press the blood they want. Telling the press he was fine but the team ordered him not to make his start is actually doing the opposite of throwing more blood in the water. Does he just enjoy the frenzy?

#253 86spike


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:51 AM

This still sort of stinks to me and not sure where the smell is coming from. If this is true why wouldn't the organisation repeatedly put this out there to try to take media and fan scrutiny off of Beckett and avoid the shit show that would obviously follow?


Yup. This is Cherington and Valentine showing Beckett (whom they are clearly desperately trying to keep happy and motivated) that the team will jump on the grenade for him. Both of them made 'we don't think the golf was a problem' statements and now this "leaks."

This is exactly what Francona would do.

#254 StuckOnYouk

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:51 AM

This still sort of stinks to me and not sure where the smell is coming from. If this is true why wouldn't the organisation repeatedly put this out there to try to take media and fan scrutiny off of Beckett and avoid the shit show that would obviously follow?

agreed. this isn't adding up. It's almost like the Sox themselves are doing what they can to put the situation to bed by throwing that out there. It's smart if they want to dump him. Get rid of the controversy, hope he pitches better making him more attractive to other teams and then sayonara.
Just doesn't make sense that neither the team or the pitcher put this out there at any time since the story hit. Would have immediately wiped it off the newspapers.

#255 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:52 AM

But not saying that he was perfectly fine to take the ball is giving the press the blood they want. Telling the press he was fine but the team ordered him not to make his start is actually doing the opposite of throwing more blood in the water. Does he just enjoy the frenzy?


If he did as you suggest he would be accused of shifting blame from himself onto the team IMO. He can't win.

Best way to stop the wolves baying at his door (and in this case given Roche's tweet I am of the opinion that the whole deal has been badly overblown) is to pitch better. Sadly he didn't do that last night.

#256 cshea


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:52 AM

Seems like the Red Sox created an unecessary crisis here. What exactly was the point of making up an injury in the first place? Why couldn't they have just said something along the "Josh threw 126 pitches him his last outing, and given his importance to the long term success of the club, we felt it was best to give him some extra rest early on in the season." That would be the end of it.

#257 JimD

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:53 AM

So he felt good, wanted to pitch and was told not to. Feeling fine, he then did what any golfing fanatic would do on his day off: play golf.

I'm failing to see the reason for outrage now.


There would have been no outrage if Beckett or Valentine (or both) had followed up the original story with a little wink-wink act that made it clear that it had nothing to do with an injury and was all about getting Aaron Cook a start, followed up by a solid outing last night by a well-rested Beckett. Instead, they let the story fester and Beckett shat the bed last night. Just a collosal shitshow of incompetence all the way around.

#258 fineyoungarm


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:54 AM

Roche:
Was told by a #RedSox source that Beckett felt he was fine and wanted to pitch last Sat, but team told him to take the day off. #wbz

http://twitter.com/R...935886278496256


Counting Sunday 4/29, that week the team went 1 - 4 with a day off on Thursday - through Friday. If the decision was made on Thursday, the team had just dropped 2 out of 3 to the mediocre As - at home. The Saturday start was against the Os - at the top of the pack (or close to) in the division.

The alternative is a washed up/emergency use only Aaron Cook (and, no, I am not saying that in hindsight).

Under any of those scenarios, that your ace or #2 starter, or whatever he is, was told to take a day off sounds like baloney to me.

Edited by fineyoungarm, 11 May 2012 - 08:56 AM.


#259 mabrowndog


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:55 AM

I'm going to take Abs' guidance and try to get the discussion back to baseball.

This was Beckett's 31st pitch of the night, a flat changeup at the knees but directly over the heart of the plate. The batter is Jack Hannahan, the guy who spent 27 games as Pawtucket's 30-year-old, .255-hitting third baseman a year and a half ago. Hannahan deposited it into the seats behind the RF corner 380 feet away.

It was also the third straight changeup of the at-bat. The first was a 1-1 offering (after a 4-seamer & cutter) that got a swinging strike. The second was a ball, bringing the count to 2-2.

According to Fangraphs, the changeup has been BY FAR the most valuable pitch to Hannahan over the course of his MLB career. I wasn't paying close enough attention to the details, so I can't recall if there were any shake-offs by Beckett during this sequence. But while pounding repeated fastballs is a time-honored tradition of the sport, and something Papelbon did most of last season, I can't recall the last time I saw three straight changeups.

Posted Image

#260 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:56 AM

'Dog, that info does not allow us to blame Salty for all the pitching staff's woes. Please reconsider your statements. :lol:

#261 YTF

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:56 AM

Something still stinks and I'm not sure where the smell is coming from. If this is the case, why didn't the Red Sox step in and clear the air from the begining and continue to do so until the questions subsided. Why didn't they back up their guy in a more public way given the shitstorm of the past few days. Either there's something more to this or this organisation is more adept to fucking things up than I thought. OR BOTH

Sorry for the repeat, didn't think that #251 actually posted

Edited by YTF, 11 May 2012 - 10:22 AM.


#262 rembrat


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:56 AM

Seems like the Red Sox created an unecessary crisis here. What exactly was the point of making up an injury in the first place? Why couldn't they have just said something along the "Josh threw 126 pitches him his last outing, and given his importance to the long term success of the club, we felt it was best to give him some extra rest early on in the season." That would be the end of it.


I believe the point was to give Aaron Cook a start. Josh stepped aside like a good little soldier.

#263 John Marzano Olympic Hero


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:01 AM

agreed. this isn't adding up. It's almost like the Sox themselves are doing what they can to put the situation to bed by throwing that out there. It's smart if they want to dump him. Get rid of the controversy, hope he pitches better making him more attractive to other teams and then sayonara.
Just doesn't make sense that neither the team or the pitcher put this out there at any time since the story hit. Would have immediately wiped it off the newspapers.


In the last six months the team's organization has told things to the press that were less than accurate ("Bobby Valentine was always on our short list of managers") and now we're believing them about Beckett not being injured? Seriously?

There are a bunch of reasons to skip a start, the Sox do this all the time, but to say that the pitcher is "injured" or at least let that notion float around for more than a week and then when shit hits the fan say, "LOL! We were just fooling, he was fine!" is disingenuous to me. And if he wasn't injured and didn't offer to throw the 17th inning on Sunday, then he's still a douche.

#264 StuckOnYouk

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:07 AM

I believe the point was to give Aaron Cook a start. Josh stepped aside like a good little soldier.

He could have pitched on Sunday if he wasn't hurt and the point was to give Cook a start.

#265 Al Zarilla


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:10 AM

Sports Center did a pretty good number on Beckett on their 9 a.m. Eastern show today. First, they had "Beckett struggles" as the second bit after Kobe's tummy ache in the hour long show. That's pretty high (for both). Showing Beckett's struggles, for each home run against him they played the sound of a driver hitting a golf ball. They showed a golf-like scorecard, having Beckett as 0 on the first hole, +3 on the second and +4 on the third. They showed him saying "my day off" several times when asked after the game about why he played golf after missing a start. They showed and talked about BV getting cheered for once, on his way out to get Beckett. They then had Tim Kurkjian on to talk about the disaster. I didn't think the whole thing was worth all this attention. ESPN did.

#266 YTF

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:12 AM

If all of this was JUST to give Cook a start, couldn't they have done that the following day during Buchholz' sheduled start? Or even give Beckett just the extra day off and start him in place of Buchholz?

#267 glennhoffmania


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:22 AM

If all of this was JUST to give Cook a start, couldn't they have done that the following day during Buchholz' sheduled start? Or even give Beckett just the extra day off and start him in place of Buchholz?


I don't mean this to be snarky or sarcastic or anything like that. What makes you think this team will do anything logical at this point? I've stopped expecting rational behavior. I don't know the cause, whether it's Larry, Ben, Bobby, or someone else. But over the last 8 months or so illogical decision-making seems to be the norm from an outside perspective in my opinion.

#268 cornwalls@6

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:26 AM

In the last six months the team's organization has told things to the press that were less than accurate ("Bobby Valentine was always on our short list of managers") and now we're believing them about Beckett not being injured? Seriously?

There are a bunch of reasons to skip a start, the Sox do this all the time, but to say that the pitcher is "injured" or at least let that notion float around for more than a week and then when shit hits the fan say, "LOL! We were just fooling, he was fine!" is disingenuous to me. And if he wasn't injured and didn't offer to throw the 17th inning on Sunday, then he's still a douche.


Exactly. This reeks of a way too late, ham-fisted attempt to diffuse all the heat surrounding Beckett. For the already mentioned purposes of pacifying him, in the hopes that his trade value isn't completely ruined. This organization has completely lost the plot in terms of getting all parties on the same page when it comes to getting their message out, whether it's a BS message or not.

#269 YTF

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:29 AM

I don't mean this to be snarky or sarcastic or anything like that. What makes you think this team will do anything logical at this point? I've stopped expecting rational behavior. I don't know the cause, whether it's Larry, Ben, Bobby, or someone else. But over the last 8 months or so illogical decision-making seems to be the norm from an outside perspective in my opinion.


No offense taken and I should probably give up on expecting logic, but my reponse really was just me sort of saying I don't fully buy the "giving Cook a start" argument in light of all that's followed.

Edited by YTF, 11 May 2012 - 09:34 AM.


#270 DLew On Roids


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:31 AM

Why not just say up-front that they were giving Beckett a start off so they could get Cook up before he could opt out? It's a sensible thing to do and it's not throwing Beckett under the bus. Then Beckett could play golf and no one cares. Now they're going off the record to try to correct the narrative?

This is clownshoes stuff you expect from organizations run by men like Peter Angelos. It reminds me of the Buddy LeRoux era.

#271 YTF

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:32 AM

Why not just say up-front that they were giving Beckett a start off so they could get Cook up before he could opt out? It's a sensible thing to do and it's not throwing Beckett under the bus. Then Beckett could play golf and no one cares. Now they're going off the record to try to correct the narrative?

This is clownshoes stuff you expect from organizations run by men like Peter Angelos. It reminds me of the Buddy LeRoux era.


Makes you wonder if they realise or even care how laughable this franchise has become on so many levels.

#272 John Marzano Olympic Hero


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:34 AM

Why not just say up-front that they were giving Beckett a start off so they could get Cook up before he could opt out? It's a sensible thing to do and it's not throwing Beckett under the bus. Then Beckett could play golf and no one cares. Now they're going off the record to try to correct the narrative?


Furthermore, they could have said, "We have 20 games in 20 days, it's still early in the season and we want to give our guys an extra day of rest." It's simple and easy and I'm sure that "the smartest baseball fans in the world" would have understood.

So here's the thing, the Red Sox are lying to their fans about why Beckett's Saturday start was skipped or they're lying now.

#273 RingoOSU


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:38 AM

If Josh Beckett was simply getting extra rest, his "vacation" would have ended sometime around the 12th inning on Sunday. Unless we're supposed to believe he was so hurt about missing his start Saturday he refused to suit up the next day when they needed him.

#274 sachilles


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:40 AM

He pitched poorly last night.
The concern that he should have pitched in the 17 inning game, when he was told to take the day off is piling on in my opinion. If he was even remotely, injured, at what point do you get him up in the pen of a game that you don't know will go 17 innings? He's a starter. He takes a while to get warm. If he is injured or just plain sore, he'll likely need to be seen by a trainer before he even starts to warm up. As much as you'd like that he volunteered to play that night, it wouldn't have made sense unless it was premeditated, or a decision was made before the 9th.
So if you want to be pissed that he golfed, fine. You want to be pissed that he is defiant about it fine. You want to be pissed that he pitched poorly, fine. He shouldn't have pitched in the 17 inning game unless he was starting. Makes no sense to trot him out there, unless it is do or die playoff time.

#275 Harry Hooper


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:50 AM

I believe the point was to give Aaron Cook a start. Josh stepped aside like a good little soldier.


C'mon, they didn't push Josh back a day or two, they skipped him completely in the rotation. There was a injury concern/protection thing going on. These new leaks that he was fine are just a lame attempt to turn down the heat -- perhaps as a prelude to making a trade.

#276 HomeBrew1901


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:00 AM

In the last six months the team's organization has told things to the press that were less than accurate ("Bobby Valentine was always on our short list of managers") and now we're believing them about Beckett not being injured? Seriously?

There are a bunch of reasons to skip a start, the Sox do this all the time, but to say that the pitcher is "injured" or at least let that notion float around for more than a week and then when shit hits the fan say, "LOL! We were just fooling, he was fine!" is disingenuous to me. And if he wasn't injured and didn't offer to throw the 17th inning on Sunday, then he's still a douche.

This really just makes the situation worse for both the Sox and Beckett. Sure it will pacify a small segment of fans like rembrat and SJH that want to cut Beckett some slack, but it just fans the flames for the rest. Earlier today it was just Beckett being an dick, now "a source" is trying to defuse the situation by coddling Beckett and saying it wasn't his fault. All of this AFTER Cherington and Valentine have spoken about it.

So now instead of just Beckett looking bad, someone is making the Sox look bad by trying to defent him too late and Beckett looks worse because it looks like he needs even more coddling.

What a clusterfuck.

Edited by HomeBrew1901, 11 May 2012 - 10:01 AM.


#277 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

Brew, you're assuming the source is lying. Why?

#278 HomeBrew1901


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:08 AM

Brew, you're assuming the source is lying. Why?

Stinks like a cover up. If the source wasn't trying to cover up for Beckett, why didn't Valentine and Cherington say it when the story broke?

#279 StuckOnYouk

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

Brew, you're assuming the source is lying. Why?

Probably because the organization could have came out with this within hours of the original golfing story breaking and hitting the fan. This organization has to know that coming out with such a simple and truthful answer would have been the right thing to do considering the awful PR stank around this team for the past 7 months.
The fact that they withheld such a simple answer until after Beckett is booed off the mound and story is being mocked nationally means it's probably a lie. Not 100% definitely but probably.

#280 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:13 AM

Stinks like a cover up. If the source wasn't trying to cover up for Beckett, why didn't Valentine and Cherington say it when the story broke?


This org couldn't pull off a coverup if their lives depended on it. This stinks like official incompetence to me. Had the news come out that Beckett was fine and wanted to pitch but instead Cook went out there to get destroyed, then they also look bad.

#281 glennhoffmania


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:16 AM

Probably because the organization could have came out with this within hours of the original golfing story breaking and hitting the fan. This organization has to know that coming out with such a simple and truthful answer would have been the right thing to do considering the awful PR stank around this team for the past 7 months.
The fact that they withheld such a simple answer until after Beckett is booed off the mound and story is being mocked nationally means it's probably a lie. Not 100% definitely but probably.


But then they would've been caught in a lie a couple of days earlier. They couldn't win. They lied about Beckett being hurt. He purposely or unknowingly put them in an impossible situation by playing golf. Now they're backed into a corner with no easy way out. What they should've done from the start is say, Beckett threw a lot of pitches, we want him to be fresh for the long haul so we're giving him extra rest, Cook will take his spot, he's physically fine, nothing to see here.

The problem with this is that it still makes zero sense to sit a healthy pitcher for a whole turn through the rotatation. That doesn't suggest to me that he was really hurt. It further proves to me that management has their heads up their asses.

#282 RedOctober3829


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:16 AM

Brew, you're assuming the source is lying. Why?


SJH, don't you find it a bit of a coincidence that after this shitstorm that these kinds of tweets are coming out now? It's one of two things: 1) they screwed this situation up so bad by not simply coming out and saying they were going to skip his start in favor of Cook as a precation or 2) there was an injury and they pushed him back for that reason but now are changing the story to get the heat off Beckett.

Also, PeteAbe reported on May 4th that Beckett said he had discomfort in his shoulder. What is the actual injury: shoulder, lat, both, or none of the above? Any way you look at it, the organization looks totally incompetent.

#283 Buzzkill Pauley

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:20 AM

This org couldn't pull off a coverup if their lives depended on it. This stinks like official incompetence to me. Had the news come out that Beckett was fine and wanted to pitch but instead Cook went out there to get destroyed, then they also look bad.


Plus, without a physical reason involved there's absolutely no logical reason to skip Beckett over his golf partner.

Especially against the division leaders.

#284 YTF

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:27 AM

Problem is that at this point you can't put the Genie back into the bottle and in this instance there are several Genies floating around out there. Big clusterfuck that could have been largely avoided or at the very least contained.

#285 HomeBrew1901


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:30 AM

This org couldn't pull off a coverup if their lives depended on it. This stinks like official incompetence to me. Had the news come out that Beckett was fine and wanted to pitch but instead Cook went out there to get destroyed, then they also look bad.

I was distracted and immediately didn't like my use of "cover up". I think someone close to Beckett or in ownership is trying to defuse the situation and doing a shitty job of it.

Beckett has been taking shit for having a sore lat that he didn't tell the team about. That was the story as to why Cook was getting a start. Then he goes golfing, it gets reported and then takes 2 days for "a source" to whisper to Roche that it was an excused PTO day? Why didn't Cherington or Valentine come out with this 2 days ago.

Again, reeks of someone trying to save Beckett from drowning and doing a shitty job.

#286 502 to Right


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:33 AM

Awesome. So how does the mob feel now?


Let's find out if this source is actually correct. All of the public information we have shows Beckett to be an idiot.

#287 MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:39 AM

Everything is fine if Beckett came out last night and pitched well. He didn't. He pitched terribly. And it wasn't bad luck.

My biggest concern would be with his change-up, which is reaching the point where it should really never, ever be used. Not only is it not really much of a change of speed (we're talking a 5-6 mph difference on average - 92.04 vs. 86.2 mph on average, but the change average is brought down by a couple of outliers and there were at least six of them 87 mph or above), but it also doesn't seem to even travel much differently from the four-seamer. Sure, this could be an advantage if there's an 8-10 mph difference, but if the change of speed isn't there, it's just basically a slow fastball, which will inevitably get crushed, especially when he leaves it, like he did at least four times, essentially middle-middle.

Check out this chart of the different pitches' paths. Green is the four-seamer, red is the change. Look much different to you? Not surprisingly, the change carried by far the most linear weight last night.

Posted Image

His four-seamer was actually really good last night, results-wise, in that he got 13 strikes not in play, but it seems like it was just that he was throwing it early in the count and batters were letting it go or fouling it off. There were quite a few right down broadway and there wasn't a single swinging strike on the four-seamer last night.

If this is what Beckett has going forward, he's going to have to be a radically different pitcher. He sure ain't a power pitcher. Fastest pitch last night was 92.9. Can he work backward with the curve and the cutter? Can he improve the change so that it's not a total disaster? I have my doubts.

#288 brs3


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:41 AM

Is Beckett's attitude and actions much different than that of John Lackey's? Especially his latest post game comments? John Lackey is universally agreed upon to be awful all around. What's the difference here?

#289 86spike


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:51 AM

Brew, you're assuming the source is lying. Why?


I think the "source" is Cherrington and Valentine and they've put this out there specifically to show Beckett that they have his back and are willing to look bad in order to save him from the pitchforks.

They absolutely need Beckett to be dedicated and motivated. They're desperate to placate him.

#290 LeoCarrillo


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:00 AM

It's astounding how much this issue hinges on "who decided Beckett would miss a start."

If it's Beckett, a few notable dissenters aside, his villainy is justified regardless of how strenuous his round of golf was. And subsequently his defiance after last night's game and "my off day is my off day" stance compounds that villainy exponentially.

If it's the team, to get Cook a start while spinning it (and why the white lie? to not anger ticket holders to that one game?), then Beckett is a good soldier who now is the team's public personification of bad soldier because the front office needlessly created this mess.

Either way, bad times ahead for Beckett and his relationship with the team, the media and the fans.

#291 cannonball 1729

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:01 AM

But while pounding repeated fastballs is a time-honored tradition of the sport, and something Papelbon did most of last season, I can't recall the last time I saw three straight changeups.

Pedro did this on occasion. He once threw a bunch in a row (I think 7 or 8 over the course of a couple of at-bats) to Carlos Delgado.

#292 pokey_reese

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:10 AM

Interesting piece on Fangraphs about Beckett today:

http://www.fangraphs...ssing-fastball/

Cameron seems to believe that this is a real injury, and that it is affecting his ability to generate his normal velocity on all pitches.

#293 mabrowndog


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:14 AM

Pedro did this on occasion. He once threw a bunch in a row (I think 7 or 8 over the course of a couple of at-bats) to Carlos Delgado.


That was the first name that came to mind, but it was also a long time ago (much longer than I'd like to admit). Plus he had so many variations on that one pitch type in terms of speed & movement that it wasn't like he was throwing BP the way Beckett did to Hannahan.

So I'm left wondering why it happened. Did Shoppach call for them? Did Beckett shake him off until he got the CH sign? Did anything come up in the pre-game planning process and analysis of the Cleveland lineup that would lead Beckett, Shoppach, McClure and/or Valentine to conclude this would be a sound approach to take?

If anyone DVRd the game and can replay the top of the 2nd, I'd be interested to know what the communication was like between Beckett & Shoppach.

Granted this was just one pimple on a pizza-faced complexion of a pitching performance, but...

Edited by mabrowndog, 11 May 2012 - 11:15 AM.


#294 bob burda

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:16 AM

Pedro did this on occasion. He once threw a bunch in a row (I think 7 or 8 over the course of a couple of at-bats) to Carlos Delgado.

Well yeah....thought it helps to have a batter who has trouble with the change-ups combined with being able to throw an an almost unhittable change-up, and also to be packing 96mph heat. The point in Beckett's favor is that Hanrahan is a worse hitter than Delgado was.

Edit: mabrowndog beats me to it and says it more thoroughly

Edited by bob burda, 11 May 2012 - 11:18 AM.


#295 drtooth


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:30 AM

Looking at brooksbaseball.com, the trend since 2007 with his fastball is definitely concerning. Attitude without the stuff to back it up has Beckett going from having bravado to being a tool. I am using his FB numbers since that is what he throws with the most frequency.


2007

Four Seam Freq-39%
MPH-96.15
Whiffs-9.22%
BIP-15.21%

2008

Freq-37%
MPH-95.23
Whiffs-7.51%
BIP-17.89%

Injury toward the end of the year may have effected the BIP numbers???

2009

Freq-34%
MPH-95.15
Whiffs-6.62%
BIP-14%

2010

Freq-33%
MPH-94.23
Whiffs-6.87%
BIP-16.88%

2011

Freq-33%
MPH-93.82
Whiffs-8.42%
BIP-15.11%

Was having a Cy Young type year until Sept

2012

Freq-33%
MPH-92.16
Whiffs-5.39%
BIP-20.96%

2011 was the exception to the trend in terms of Whiffs% and BIP%, but the velocity has certainly continued to go down. I realize the numbers this year could be considered SSS, but he has obviously not missed as many bats as in the past.

http://www.brooksbas...p?player=277417

#296 StuckOnYouk

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:43 AM

I think it was Paul O'Neil who said that Pedro could tell him a changeup was coming and he still couldn't hit it. Pedro's changeup was one of the best pitches anyone in the bigs had and his consistency or repetition with throwing it shouldn't really compare to Beckett's

#297 Tony C


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:44 AM

This org couldn't pull off a coverup if their lives depended on it. This stinks like official incompetence to me. Had the news come out that Beckett was fine and wanted to pitch but instead Cook went out there to get destroyed, then they also look bad.


Well, they could pull it off if there were more people like you out there.


Interesting piece on Fangraphs about Beckett today:

http://www.fangraphs...ssing-fastball/

Cameron seems to believe that this is a real injury, and that it is affecting his ability to generate his normal velocity on all pitches.


Good break down. The idea that he wasn't injured could only be believed by the most naive of kool-aid drinkers. Pitchers don't get starts skipped in MLB unless something is up (and that "up" doesn't refer to Aaron Cook). If anything, the problem is the opposite -- there's a culture that you play/pitch through "minor" owies.

#298 The Gray Eagle


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:56 AM

C'mon, they didn't push Josh back a day or two, they skipped him completely in the rotation. There was a injury concern/protection thing going on. These new leaks that he was fine are just a lame attempt to turn down the heat -- perhaps as a prelude to making a trade.


This makes the most sense to me. He probably had some soreness after the 126-pitch start, but wanted to pitch anyway but the team said no. So he said fuck it, I'm gonna go play golf on my off day, why not, I'm healthy enough to pitch but they won't let me. I doubt the team was happy about him playing golf, since they said they felt he was injured a couple days before.

The whole golf thing isn't as bad as the rumor about him not doing his offday work with the other pitchers anyway. That is the big issue when it comes to his attitude. If true. Maybe that's been made up, who knows?

The team source leak thing today was definitely the team trying to calm down the angry response to Beckett though. Probably not going to work. Just from public appearances, the team seems to be a mess of entitled jerks with management doesn't know what it's doing.

Talk about a team that needs a long winning streak right now...

#299 absintheofmalaise


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Posted 11 May 2012 - 12:04 PM

Looking at the pitch info over at Brooks Baseball, in the third, the pitches that were clubbed were 2 curves, a cutter and a 4 seam.

In the second, the ones that fell for hits were 1 change and 2 four seams.

You can also see that there was not a lot of separation in speeds between his change and the various fastballs he threw except on a couple of pitches. Not enough to really deceive the hitters IMO. Luckily, he couldn't really control them and he only threw 4 for strikes.

#300 geoflin

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

Seems like the Red Sox created an unecessary crisis here. What exactly was the point of making up an injury in the first place? Why couldn't they have just said something along the "Josh threw 126 pitches him his last outing, and given his importance to the long term success of the club, we felt it was best to give him some extra rest early on in the season." That would be the end of it.


Because that would lead to questions about Valentine and his managerial decision-making, which Lucky and Co. won't do. Why would Valentine allow Beckett to throw 126 pitches if the end result was having to skip his next start?




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