730 replies to this topic

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I just took that as a typical "Sunday game" managerial move, getting the bench guys a start at the end of the week. I loathe Valentine but won't hold that against him as Tito used to do that quite a bit as well.

[Toe Nash]

I just took that as a typical "Sunday game" managerial move, getting the bench guys a start at the end of the week. I loathe Valentine but won't hold that against him as Tito used to do that quite a bit as well.

Plus, he doesn't want to bat a high-SLG guy leadoff. This is probably misguided since he will if they're fast like Ellsbury, but not particularly unusual. Nava had been hitting leadoff but he's not very good against lefties.

Lillibridge had a .340 OBP last year, so he may not be that bad, either. But I don't think we're going to see a pattern of him leading off.

[judyb]

Last minute replacement, Aviles was leading off in the original lineup, and he turned up sick. He probably didn't want to rearrange too much at that point.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Makes sense. Of course that's a opp to question why a .280 OBP man was leading off, but we've caused enough trouble today.

[judyb]

Makes sense. Of course that's a opp to question why a .280 OBP man was leading off, but we've caused enough trouble today.

Just in case, Aviles has the 3rd highest OBP on the team vs. LHPs, behind Ross and Ortiz. Unless we're counting Morales, who I imagine was not available.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Point noted. Objection withdrawn. Your witness.

[JakeRae]

I brought this up in the game thread when it happened and, in light of today, think it is worth revisiting. Why did Morales pitch out of the bullpen on Wednesday? Throwing in games is not the same as throwing on an off day. There is a reason teams do not use their starters out of the bullpen in between starts. Morales struggles today may or may not be related to this, but there was absolutely no reason to take a guy who was performing as our best pitcher and has a history of struggling to maintain his mechanics and mess with his routine. You do stuff like this in the playoffs during must win games, not in the regular season during a random road series in Seattle with a well rested bullpen.

[Plympton91]

I brought this up in the game thread when it happened and, in light of today, think it is worth revisiting. Why did Morales pitch out of the bullpen on Wednesday? Throwing in games is not the same as throwing on an off day. There is a reason teams do not use their starters out of the bullpen in between starts. Morales struggles today may or may not be related to this, but there was absolutely no reason to take a guy who was performing as our best pitcher and has a history of struggling to maintain his mechanics and mess with his routine. You do stuff like this in the playoffs during must win games, not in the regular season during a random road series in Seattle with a well rested bullpen.

Yeah, that seemed pretty crazy to me, too. I could have seen using him on Monday, or maybe Tuesday, but to have him do it on Wednesday when they have so many other options seems ridiculous. I was too busy to be following the past week or so of commentary, but why was there so much juggling of rotation spots that took people out of their regular rest?

[ookami7m]

Who ha the call to send Shoppach with the bases loaded and Papi coming up to end the inning? Wasn't even particularly close - I was stunned they sent someone as slow as Shop

Edited by ookami7m, 14 July 2012 - 08:50 PM.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Its amazing how once again Bobby V turns a good start into a not-good start by trying to squeeze out another inning from a starter who is starting to lose it. I know Buchholz's pitch count was not in the stratosphere, but he hadn't pitched in almost a month. How many times has this happened this year?

[bloodysox]

Its amazing how once again Bobby V turns a good start into a not-good start by trying to squeeze out another inning from a starter who is starting to lose it. I know Buchholz's pitch count was not in the stratosphere, but he hadn't pitched in almost a month. How many times has this happened this year?

His pitch count was considerably below his limit for the night.

I can't blame Bobby for letting a pitcher who had been on a roll stay in the game into the 7th.

[bloodysox]

Who ha the call to send Shoppach with the bases loaded and Papi coming up to end the inning? Wasn't even particularly close - I was stunned they sent someone as slow as Shop

It's the third base coach's call.

[seantoo]

Its amazing how once again Bobby V turns a good start into a not-good start by trying to squeeze out another inning from a starter who is starting to lose it. I know Buchholz's pitch count was not in the stratosphere, but he hadn't pitched in almost a month. How many times has this happened this year?

Not in the stratosphere? how about way to soon to consider pulling him. Don't let your feelings for BV cloud your rational here, because it clearly has. There is no arguement for having pulled Buchholz before he did. He had about 70 pitches up to that innings and of course he pitched in the last month it's called rehab.

[Plympton91]

I was wondering if sending Buchholz out there was the right move. It's a close call, but I think it was o.k. Buchholz had just breezed through the sixth, his velocity was stable, he was only half-way through the lineup for the third time, and he had a very low pitch count. It's unfortunate that he hit Keppinger.

What we discovered tonight was why Pedro Ciriaco has no business batting second, ever. Of course, with the M.A.S.H. unit still overcrowded, there wasn't really a much better option. Perhaps Aviles.

I thought the IBB to Matsui was assinine. Albers is not a control artist and Matsui sucks. That said, the umpire clearly blew strike 3 to Loboton, and if that call gets made correctly the Red Sox are still up 3-2 going to the 8th.

Also thought leaving Miller in to face Upton in the 9th was questionable.

On a separate note, I'd love to know which of the many bogus Florida pharmacies Keppinger and Rodney are using this year.

Edited by Plympton91, 14 July 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[Plympton91]

Left the lefty specialist in to face Andew Jones, then goes to Aceves instead of Padilla even though Padilla is a) better and b) Russell Martin was 3-5 against Aceves. A is much more important than the SSS of B, but still

Why is the 20 million dollar man with all value tied to his speed not stealing 2nd base on 2 occasions where they needed him to be on 2nd base.

Edited by Plympton91, 29 July 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[Adrian's Dome]

Left the lefty specialist in to face Andew Jones, then goes to Aceves instead of Padilla even though Padilla is a) better and b) Russell Martin was 3-5 against Aceves. A is much more important than the SSS of B, but still

Why is the 20 million dollar man with all value tied to his speed not stealing 2nd base on 2 occasions where they needed him to be on 2nd base.

I also thought letting Aceves face Granderson was a mistake. Granted he got out of it, but their best HR hitter (who is also LH) vs. our RH reliever with that short porch in right, I was expecting a disaster. Turns out, Granderson hit it about 15 feet short of a distaster.

Would've liked to see Morales in that situation, especially with Teix and Cano coming up next inning. That's not to mention that Morales could've given you a few innings had it gone further into extras, too. Don't think Bobby should've tried to squeeze that last inning out of Doubront either, even if the HR was another New Toilet special.

Edited by Adrian's Dome, 30 July 2012 - 03:12 AM.

[Cellar-Door]

Left the lefty specialist in to face Andew Jones, then goes to Aceves instead of Padilla even though Padilla is a) better and b) Russell Martin was 3-5 against Aceves. A is much more important than the SSS of B, but still

Why is the 20 million dollar man with all value tied to his speed not stealing 2nd base on 2 occasions where they needed him to be on 2nd base.

I'm fine with Miller, his stuff was great, and he made Jones look silly on 2 breaking pitches, the mistake was throwing a hittable FB there, pitch has to be higher than that or another breaking ball.
thought they should have sent Crawford though,

Edited by Cellar-Door, 30 July 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[joe dokes]

The Sox dont have any great relievers. So when a guy "has it," as Miller did last night, I have no problem with the manager sticking with him.

[Hokie Sox]

Left the lefty specialist in to face Andew Jones, then goes to Aceves instead of Padilla even though Padilla is a) better and b) Russell Martin was 3-5 against Aceves. A is much more important than the SSS of B, but still

Why is the 20 million dollar man with all value tied to his speed not stealing 2nd base on 2 occasions where they needed him to be on 2nd base.

1. Please watch this AB again. Miller was absolutely dealing with good command of his breaking pitches. He challenged Andrew Jones with a rising fastball at 97 mph (which ESPN showed replay of and was actually a very good pitch), and he got beat by Jones. If you want to question throwing the fastball (albeit, a great one) in that kind of situation, then question the pitch calling. I despise Bobby V (although I did laugh when he threw his gum into the stands after getting ejected last night), but Miller was dealing.
2. Martin against Aceves was the right move. Martin's OPS vs. lefties is 1.012, compared to .579 versus righties. Furthermore, bringing in Padilla brings the crowd into it even more after what happened Saturday. He's also not the better pitcher of the two.

In conclusion, I have no problem with how Bobby managed the pen last night. The only problem I have is that EVERYTHING was about him, but that's just a product of ESPN and their nonsensical analysis due to their stranglehold on Sunday night baseball.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Just back from watching tonight's game, and I thought Bobby absolutely let this one slip through his fingers.

Under absolutely no circumstances should Cook have been allowed to face Cabrera a third time. There was no question he was going to hit that home run. He had a single and a very loud out already, and Cook was looking Cooked, with balls starting to come up and his early ground ball dominance melting away in front of the whole park.

But, fine, whatever, it was the fifth inning. I supposed it would have been fairly radical to lift him there. So Cabrera hits his home run and the game is probably spent anyway, but, when you already have Breslow warm, why in fuck would you let Cook pitch to Fielder, too? Just to see how far he could hit it? Asinine.

Should Miller have been allowed to pitch to that righty? He's been dealing, but after the Andruw Jones double last week, there's at least some indication that Miller is indeed nothing more than a loogy and he was on his third batter with a sit in the dugout in the middle. How about having Padilla ready for him since you had all the time in the world to get him warm?

This is a team the Sox are absolutely head to head with for the wild card, and that was a winnable game. That insurance run was brutal. With the horrible Twins coming to town, there was no reason not to play that game like a playoff game.

And just for good measure, what good is it having Ells and Crawford at the top of the line-up if they're not going to actually steal bases? Ellsbury leads off with a double. Crawford strikes out in the most pathetic three-pitch at-bat I've seen in years. You've got to have Ellsbury on third with Pedey up. But no. When Pedroia makes his loud out, Ells tags and moves to third. Did it end up working out? Yes. But what do the Red Sox have to lose at this point? Be aggressive and use your assets for Christ's sake. What are they waiting for?

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Maybe we could break the Cook discussion out into a "When to DFA Cook: Now or yesterday?" thread of its own?

[Corsi]

At least one coach asked out of his contract when Valentine was hired but was denied. Now he doesn’t speak to the manager.

http://bostonherald....0380&position=0

[Rudy Pemberton]

Don't we know that it's Gary Tuck, who wanted to go to the MFY?

[EP Sox Fan]

Just back from watching tonight's game, and I thought Bobby absolutely let this one slip through his fingers.

Under absolutely no circumstances should Cook have been allowed to face Cabrera a third time. There was no question he was going to hit that home run. He had a single and a very loud out already, and Cook was looking Cooked, with balls starting to come up and his early ground ball dominance melting away in front of the whole park.

But, fine, whatever, it was the fifth inning. I supposed it would have been fairly radical to lift him there. So Cabrera hits his home run and the game is probably spent anyway, but, when you already have Breslow warm, why in fuck would you let Cook pitch to Fielder, too? Just to see how far he could hit it? Asinine.

Should Miller have been allowed to pitch to that righty? He's been dealing, but after the Andruw Jones double last week, there's at least some indication that Miller is indeed nothing more than a loogy and he was on his third batter with a sit in the dugout in the middle. How about having Padilla ready for him since you had all the time in the world to get him warm?

This is a team the Sox are absolutely head to head with for the wild card, and that was a winnable game. That insurance run was brutal. With the horrible Twins coming to town, there was no reason not to play that game like a playoff game.

And just for good measure, what good is it having Ells and Crawford at the top of the line-up if they're not going to actually steal bases? Ellsbury leads off with a double. Crawford strikes out in the most pathetic three-pitch at-bat I've seen in years. You've got to have Ellsbury on third with Pedey up. But no. When Pedroia makes his loud out, Ells tags and moves to third. Did it end up working out? Yes. But what do the Red Sox have to lose at this point? Be aggressive and use your assets for Christ's sake. What are they waiting for?

Leaving in Cook to face Cabrera a third time was unwise. Especially since it was pretty obvious to anyone watching the game that he had nothing that last inning and a half. Letting him face Fielder with the lefty ready in the pen was really inexcusable.

I didn't have that much of an issue with letting Miller face Young though. Miller looked good and had Young on the ropes. The HR was on a FB that looked way off the plate. Young didn't even make great contact, just hit it to the right part of the park. Thought that was just unlucky.

Fake Edit: Okay before I posted that, I took a quick look at his 2012 splits vs. RHP. It's not good. in 8IP his triple slash v. RHP is .324 / .395 / .618. With that in mind, perhaps BobbyV left Miller out there to face Delmon Young was a bridge too far.

[Toe Nash]

Regardless, that HR went 305 feet. It's at worst a double and likely foul in every other park. A few feet to the left or right and it's not a HR even in Fenway.

[SoxScout]

http://fullcount.wee...-get-me-better/

Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine, in his appearance on The Big Show on Wednesday, said that the only time that team owners have talked to him about his communication with players was when, at the conclusion of a rough defensive inning in which Will Middlebrooks made a couple of defensive miscues, the manager offered a sarcastic remark to the rookie.


“Ownership did come and say that they heard that a game when — or someone, actually ownership — that they heard when Will Middlebrooks made two errors in a game and he came off of the field and got into the dugout, I said, ‘Nice inning, Will,’ and that maybe that upset him,” said Valentine. “Now, they didn’t take it further and find out after the game that I went over to Will’s locker, I was trying to be light at the time with the ‘Nice inning,’ then I went over to his locker and told him about my experience of making three errors, being booed off the field and cushions being thrown from the Dodger Stadium fandom and me dodging them as I got into the dugout. If you’re going to deal with part of the story, then believe me, it’s not the story.”

[Corsi]

http://fullcount.wee...-get-me-better/

Seems like a smartass thing to say, to a rookie no less, but even so, someone's relaying this stuff to management.

[glennhoffmania]

Every story I read about him makes me dislike him more. He's not even really coherent anymore. It's like he came in with a chip on his shoulder and it's only getting bigger.

[Lose Remerswaal]

True, he's quite unlikable. Moreso than I imagined.

Still can't figure out who should have been hired instead of him this past offseason.

Thinking Bogar gets promoted to the position next year and hope Farrell doesn't re-sign with Toronto after his contract expires in 2013.



Or hoping for a Billy Martin-esque return of Tito. Hopefully lessons have been learned!

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

It must be Shoppach..... Rumor has it he's the bad apple in this bunch of angels.

[Plympton91]

Every story I read about him makes me dislike him more. He's not even really coherent anymore. It's like he came in with a chip on his shoulder and it's only getting bigger.

The "him" you're referring to is Will Crybaby Middlebrooks, right? Seriously? That remark upset him? My Lord, kids today are spoiled rotten. I wish Valentine had gone up to his locker after the game and gone all Tom Hanks in League of their Own on him. There's no crying in baseball, Will.

[glennhoffmania]

I think we can criticize both Bobby and Will in this particular situation, but I haven't heard any other negative stories about Will while the list of crap on Bobby's ledger keeps growing.

[Rudy Pemberton]

So someone, presumably a player or coach, went to ownership to complain about what Bobby said; and then ownership went to Bobby to talk to him about it? Really?

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

I just don't get why all this garbage is newsworthy all the time, so some players don't like Valentine, some coaches think they'd do a better job, front office likes to second guess the manager and the GM was undermined by the owner's henchman. The players don't try, there's a snitch who goes over the manager's head or uses the media to spew crap.

Why can't it ever just be about what is happening on the field. This team has struggled to stay healthy and thier two star pitcher's are having off years at the same time.

If this team were winning we'd be hearing about how the manager was a genius for refusing to ballwash these overpaid whiners. How it's gamesmanship and stealth that they don't communicate everything and how the players hold hands on the way to the team bus.

[glennhoffmania]

So someone, presumably a player or coach, went to ownership to complain about what Bobby said; and then ownership went to Bobby to talk to him about it? Really?

Or maybe it's been a consistent pattern of him being a total ass and his was the last straw. It's not like there haven't been multiple reported incidents, and those are just the ones we know about. But sure, look at this one incident in isolation and call it absurd if that makes more sense.

[Captaincoop]

So someone, presumably a player or coach, went to ownership to complain about what Bobby said; and then ownership went to Bobby to talk to him about it? Really?

As if we needed more evidence about how dysfunctional this club is. The fact that either WMB or some mole in the dugout went to the front office with this bothers me ten times more than the fact that Valentine said it. If the players want to be mollycoddled, they shouldn't have run roughshod over the last manager to mollycoddle them.

[HillysLastWalk]

I think we can criticize both Bobby and Will in this particular situation, but I haven't heard any other negative stories about Will while the list of crap on Bobby's ledger keeps growing.

To be fair, Bobby came into this situation with certain people's mind's made up (media, players, coaches, SOSH members). Therefore, these same people will be looking for anything (whether warranted or not) to confirm their narrative. The fact that the Sox suck makes it easy to perpetrate this.

What about the Andrew Bailey's of this world that love this guy? And I'm sure there are those on the roster that do. Basically, I don't think all of this is on Bobby. As has been pointed out throughout the year, this is a clusterfuck from everywhere (medical, ownership, players, coaches).

I'm still trying to figure out how saying "nice inning will" would have gotten anyone into a tizzy. Especially if Bobby was joking and then told the story of his three errors. If I were Will Middlebrooks I would have laughed and enjoyed the quick ribbing and listened to the advice and story from my seasoned manager. Heck, Will might have even done this. Now, the couple of people in the clubhouse that hate Bobby with the fire of a thousand suns might be blowing this out of proportion and tattling to the media and upper management. Let's all guess and determine what bend they put on this story as they told it.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 02 August 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[Corsi]

As if we needed more evidence about how dysfunctional this club is. The fact that either WMB or some mole in the dugout went to the front office with this bothers me ten times more than the fact that Valentine said it. If the players want to be mollycoddled, they shouldn't have run roughshod over the last manager to mollycoddle them.

And it was especially stupid for Valentine to admit this crap to the media. Damn, this stuff never happened under Francona. Even when the shit hit the fan, it's not like we found out about this stuff right away.

[rembrat]

To be fair, Bobby came into this situation with certain people's mind's made up (media, players, coaches, SOSH members). Therefore, these same people will be looking for anything (whether warranted or not) to confirm their narrative. The fact that the Sox suck makes it easy to perpetrate this.

What about the Andrew Bailey's of this world that love this guy? And I'm sure there are those on the roster that do. Basically, I don't think all of this is on Bobby. As has been pointed out throughout the year, this is a clusterfuck from everywhere (medical, ownership, players, coaches).

I'm still trying to figure out how saying "nice inning will" would have gotten anyone into a tizzy. Especially if Bobby was joking and then told the story of his three errors. If I were Will Middlebrooks I would have laughed and enjoyed the quick ribbing and listened to the advice and story from my seasoned manager. Heck, Will might have even done this. Now, the couple of people in the clubhouse that hate Bobby with a thousand fires might be blowing this out of proportion and tattling to the media and upper management.

Andrew Bailey doesn't stay on the field for more than 40 innings a year so he doesn't have to deal with a dumbass manager. People's minds were made up because the book on Valentine had been out for a while now and to nobody's surprise he has been just as advertised. He is cancer and he needs to go.

[TheoShmeo]

I just don't get why all this garbage is newsworthy all the time, so some players don't like Valentine, some coaches think they'd do a better job, front office likes to second guess the manager and the GM was undermined by the owner's henchman. The players don't try, there's a snitch who goes over the manager's head or uses the media to spew crap.

Why can't it ever just be about what is happening on the field. This team has struggled to stay healthy and thier two star pitcher's are having off years at the same time.

If this team were winning we'd be hearing about how the manager was a genius for refusing to ballwash these overpaid whiners. How it's gamesmanship and stealth that they don't communicate everything and how the players hold hands on the way to the team bus.

Because

- anything about Bobby that could be construed positively, neutrally or negatively immediately gets portrayed in the worst possible light by many people, particularly those who disliked the hiring and concluded from day one that it was a major blunder;

- the level of fascination around this team leads to a soap opera like following; and

- the media knows that drama sells and pumps it up for all it's worth, at every single turn.

In Bobby's case, it's almost like clockwork. Input in, disgust out.

I mean, sure, without the benefit of any context, saying what Bobby reportedly said to Will sounds bad. But context is kind of important and without it we really don't know squat about this.

Edited by TheoShmeo, 02 August 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[glennhoffmania]

To be fair, Bobby came into this situation with certain people's mind's made up (media, players, coaches, SOSH members). Therefore, these same people will be looking for anything (whether warranted or not) to confirm their narrative. The fact that the Sox suck makes it easy to perpetrate this.

What about the Andrew Bailey's of this world that love this guy? And I'm sure there are those on the roster that do. Basically, I don't think all of this is on Bobby. As has been pointed out throughout the year, this is a clusterfuck from everywhere (medical, ownership, players, coaches).

I'm still trying to figure out how saying "nice inning will" would have gotten anyone into a tizzy. Especially if Bobby was joking and then told the story of his three errors. If I were Will Middlebrooks I would have laughed and enjoyed the quick ribbing and listened to the advice and story from my seasoned manager. Heck, Will might have even done this. Now, the couple of people in the clubhouse that hate Bobby with the fire of a thousand suns might be blowing this out of proportion and tattling to the media and upper management. Let's all guess and determine what bend they put on this story as they told it.

I agree with your first paragraph 100%.

Everyone is drawing conclusions with imperfect information here. For example, you're asuming that there are only a couple of people in the clubhouse that hate Bobby. I think it's far more than that based on the stories we've heard and the fact that I don't see Bobby's personality winning a lot of people over. Also, if two coworkers or boss/employee have a good relationship, sure, some ribbing is fine. If you hate your boss and he ribs you, maybe it ain't that funny.

And finally, like Corsi said, regardless of whatever happened why can't he ever keep his mouth shut?

[HillysLastWalk]

Andrew Bailey doesn't stay on the field for more than 40 innings a year so he doesn't have to deal with a dumbass manager. People's minds were made up because the book on Valentine had been out for a while now and to nobody's surprise he has been just as advertised. He is cancer and he needs to go.

Way to focus on one particular player name. There *are* people that love this guy ya know, not just Bailey. And I'm guessing the people that are keeping the hate narrative going are also the ring-leaders behind the Beckett hate. It's just more fun to hate I guess. Hate. Hate. Hate.

Personally, I haven't been caught up in the Bobby-hate stories and/or vendetta. As noted, this is a cluster-fuck from all angles. But I do notice that I really like the way he handles a bullpen. And this may have nothing to do with his handling of the players, but we sure do score a lot of runs for a team that had like 80 outfielders on the DL at one time and there isn't a single player (minus Ortiz, Nava and Ciriaco) who have an OBP over .342 - that was from just looking at last night's boxscore so I could be missing a player.

In conclusion, I get it (since spring training) you don't like the guy.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 02 August 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[HillysLastWalk]

For example, you're asuming that there are only a couple of people in the clubhouse that hate Bobby.

To quibble, that was more a poor choice of words my part than an assumption. I'm not sure what number to use. I haven't been that caught up in the drama. Then again, I can barely watch these games anymore.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 02 August 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Here's the thing- we didn't hear about this kind of thing happening with Tito because management supported him. If he did something the players liked, they weren't going to go run to Theo because he woudln't have given them the time of day.

[glennhoffmania]

Here's the thing- we didn't hear about this kind of thing happening with Tito because management supported him. If he did something the players liked, they weren't going to go run to Theo because he woudln't have given them the time of day.

Wait, are you saying that Larry doesn't support Bobby? Because at this point management equals Larry for all intents and purposes.

[HillysLastWalk]

Here's the thing- we didn't hear about this kind of thing happening with Tito because management supported him. If he did something the players liked, they weren't going to go run to Theo because he woudln't have given them the time of day.

Or it could be when you are winning 90+ games every year, there's not too much to bitch about. Or you would look ridiculous doing it, unless it was something really egregious.

As soon as the 2011 swoon happened? Tito got the shaft. From everyone it seemed.

In 2012, the Sox still suck? Time to shit on Valentine - because it's easy. If they were on pace for 95 wins these tattle-tellers would be punked down (along the lines of: "STFU, why are you trying to disturb our season!?). It's much easier to carry out your vendetta and point blame when things aren't going as planned.

Edited by HillysLastWalk, 02 August 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Well, I'm assuming the players are taking their complaints to the GM, who doesn't appear to be supporting his manager. But, who really knows. Maybe Pedroia is texting Tito in between innings.

[glennhoffmania]

Well, I'm assuming the players are taking their complaints to the GM, who doesn't appear to be supporting his manager. But, who really knows. Maybe Pedroia is texting Tito in between innings.

Read the article. Ownership talked to Bobby, not Ben. Either way, it seems clear that Larry cut off Ben's balls so he isn't doing anything on his own anyway.

What is there to like about this guy? That's what I really don't get. It's not like he has a history of great success. Do you know how many division titles he's won? Zero. I believe he's been to the playoffs twice in 16 seasons, and to the WS once. This isn't some baseball genius who just happens to have a big mouth. He's not a guy who consistently has won but can be kind of a dick, a la Parcells. He's a mediocre manager who pisses people off. Do you really think the team would suffer if he quit tomorrow? I just don't get why people are upset about the criticism he gets around here.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I'd be fine with them firing him tomorrow, just don't think it would make a lick of difference.

After the season, I suspect Bobby and Ben are both gone.

(By the way, why didn't they let Tuck go? The organization has gone out of their way to accomodate players who wanted out, yet they've got a bullpen coach who wants out, a new manager coming in, and they refuse it? WTF?)

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 02 August 2012 - 02:56 PM.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

so who hates Valentine in that cubhouse other than Gary Tuck and Shoppach?

I keep hearing the narrative that theres this huge percenatge of players that is in mutiny mode, yet I don't see it.

maybe the same guy who's not speaking to Bobby because he didn't get to go coach for our absolute arch enemy is the same guy who's leaking like a garden hose in a blender. Maybe this whole thing is one coach mad at the world. The thing is that we simply don't know. I've seen no comments from players (even those who have since left).... Everything is annonymous sources. It's all Boston Media...

Bobby has been guilty till proven innocent since day 1.

Until I hear a player saying he's a problem I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. A manager means sooo little in the scheme of things, I think most people are so overbowing Bobby's impact.

Edited by Carl Everetts Therapist, 02 August 2012 - 02:55 PM.