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Where to play WMB when Youks comes back


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#151 Eric Van


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Posted 20 May 2012 - 06:01 AM

There's no question that the league has made an adjustment after his insane first week, but the data strongly suggests that it hasn't taken the form of identifying a hole. And when you think about it, if he really had a hole in his swing big enough that MLB pitchers could hold him to .179 / .220 / .282 (May 9 to 18), he couldn't possibly have succeeded in the minors.

Rather, what happened is that they figured out what his surprising strengths were and have tried to avoid those.

I looked at the TexasLeaguer plots for 5/1 to 5/8 versus 5/9 to 5/18 and broke down pitch location in a 5 x 5 grid (dividing the zone into thirds). The big difference is a big reduction in pitches on the outer third of the plate, middle-high and low, from 21% of all pitches to 10%, and a big increase in pitches in the middle of the zone, at all heights, from 9% to 27%. (Presumably most of the latter are offspeed pitches rather than fastballs.) Another difference is a reduction in pitches mid-high, and inner 3rd or inside from 13% to 7%.

He's also just not hitting as well. In his hot streak he only swung at 2 outside or low and outside pitches, out of 12 and 6 respectively, while cold he's chased 21% outside and 35% low and outside.

Here are pitch locations, catchers POV, with lumping of pitches outside the zone in only one axis.

WMB Hot
0% 10% 2%
1% 2% 2%
7% 10% 1% 11% 13%
4% 6% 10%
0% 12% 7%


WMB Cold
0% 5% 1%
2% 7% 3%
3% 5% 9% 5% 12%
4% 11% 5%
2% 17% 9%


And here's a breakdown vertically and horizontally, five ways each.

WMB Locations
Vertical Hot Cold
High 12% 6%
Top 3rd 7% 14%
Mid 3rd 33% 25%
Bot 3rd 29% 27%
Low 19% 28%
Horizontal Hot Cold
Inside 7% 5%
Inner 3rd 18% 16%
Mid 21% 39%
Outer 3rd 31% 18%
Outside 22% 22%


#152 redsoxstiff


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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:32 AM

Danke sehr for the knowledge,Eric...

Youk at 1st
Middlebrooks at 3rd
Gonzalez in rf
All of the outfielders on the DL gives some time to trade Youk,,,
Then WMB remains and Adrian goes back to 1st when hopefully the cripples come back...

13 men on the fritz , very strange but maybe interesting,tis.

Edited by redsoxstiff, 22 May 2012 - 09:47 AM.


#153 Reverend


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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:12 PM

I think I wasn't very precise before, and that's a neat breakdown of where they are throwing to WMB. I definitely agree there's been a lot of off-speed stuff towards the middle lately, but, while it's SSS, it has seemed to me that some pitchers are having great success using that in a sequence. Like getting a first strike, throwing a couple off-speed pitches low ad center, and then getting a strike on the outside.

Bracketing, that, though, abs found this in a tweet from Mark Simon before last nights game and I thought it was worth putting up:
Posted Image

#154 LeoCarrillo

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:36 AM

Per PeteAbe last night:

Kevin Youkilis left without speaking to reporters after going 1 for 3 with a home run.



Gotta be an awkward situation for Youk, an elder statesman of the team playing hard just to possibly be traded. I hope in his mind he's competing for his 3B job.

#155 lexrageorge

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:38 AM

It's amazing that the media continues to blame the Sox players for acting entitled, but have no problems acting entitled themselves when a player refuses to answer their dumb questions.

Let's step back and take a look at this. CHB lambastes the team for no apparent reason while they're right in the middle of winning 7 of 9. A national reporter writes a poorly sourced piece of speculative garbage that claims Youks' manager thinks he's a liability. Other folks have speculated on his being a clubhouse snitch, although there's been absolutely zero evidence advanced towards this accusation. Meanwhile, Youks is coming up to the end of his guaranteed years, and at age 33 is struggling with back problems that don't seem to be going away. And, yes, there's a very real possibility of his getting traded.

I realize that he's not necessarily the most likeable guy, either in person or in the clubhouse. And he's obviously not the most athletic player on the team by any means, although he still runs hard down the line every play and is always giving 100% focus when he's on the field. But there has been a bit of piling on in this case, and in some cases it's even worse than what Beckett has been dealing with. So, don't expect him to be the most media friendly guy on the team going forward, and noone should blame him for that either.

#156 redsoxstiff


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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:58 AM

The only down sides to Youk are one his advancing age and a possible brittleness... It hasn't been a
walk in the park for the boy...

IF he shows up at the plate and WMB is the goods...Several teams need 3rdBasemen...To be fair I've never taken to him..
Of course my feelings don't obviate the fact tat he is a very good player...

#157 bluefenderstrat

  • 767 posts

Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:42 AM

Is anyone else worried that WMB approaches hitting like Shea Hillenbrand? That 3/25 K-BB ratio doesn't exactly inspire confidence. When the inevitable slump comes, he's going to be an out machine. He's had a nice start to his career, but I think the eventual answer to the thread title's question (assuming the Sox actually have a functioning ML outfield at some point) is Pawtucket.

#158 Soxfan in Fla

  • 4,935 posts

Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:38 AM

It's amazing that the media continues to blame the Sox players for acting entitled, but have no problems acting entitled themselves when a player refuses to answer their dumb questions.

Let's step back and take a look at this. CHB lambastes the team for no apparent reason while they're right in the middle of winning 7 of 9. A national reporter writes a poorly sourced piece of speculative garbage that claims Youks' manager thinks he's a liability. Other folks have speculated on his being a clubhouse snitch, although there's been absolutely zero evidence advanced towards this accusation. Meanwhile, Youks is coming up to the end of his guaranteed years, and at age 33 is struggling with back problems that don't seem to be going away. And, yes, there's a very real possibility of his getting traded.

I realize that he's not necessarily the most likeable guy, either in person or in the clubhouse. And he's obviously not the most athletic player on the team by any means, although he still runs hard down the line every play and is always giving 100% focus when he's on the field. But there has been a bit of piling on in this case, and in some cases it's even worse than what Beckett has been dealing with. So, don't expect him to be the most media friendly guy on the team going forward, and noone should blame him for that either.


I'm not sure why any Red Sox player bothers to give the Boston media clowns the time of day. Even when they are slurping all over you for being great you are only one non-hustle play or slump away from being villified by those morons.

The local media surrounding the Pats, Celts and Bruins for the most part are pretty fair to the players. The Sox media is just awful, lead by the CHB. Has there ever been a Sox player that hasn't been stabbed in the back by those buffoons at some point in their career?

#159 PrometheusWakefield


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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:07 PM

I'm not sure why any Red Sox player bothers to give the Boston media clowns the time of day.

I agree. I think it's well past time for an all out media blackout by the Red Sox, or at least a blackout by the players against the print reporters. The Boston Red Sox aren't public officials; there is no responsibility for players to talk to the media at all. The Red Sox don't need the publicity, and if they want to talk to their fan base, there are far better ways to do that directly through social media. The Boston media, especially the newspapers and radio, are archaic, inane, unnecessary, and have a purely destructive impact on the team. Silence is the best option for all concerned.

#160 Rasputin


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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:42 PM

Oops,nvm.

Edited by Rasputin, 23 May 2012 - 12:44 PM.


#161 PrometheusWakefield


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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:43 PM

Breaking: unnamed sources tell me that Youks dogged that turn around third to avoid giving WMB an extra RBI.

#162 Clears Cleaver


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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:17 AM

cbssports Dennis Knobler tweeted that

"Red Sox are telling teams they definitely intend to trade Youkilis."

#163 Zona90

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:32 PM

Rumor out here is Joe Saunders to the Red Sox for Youkilis.

#164 absintheofmalaise


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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:58 PM

Rumor out here is Joe Saunders to the Red Sox for Youkilis.

If you're going to post something like that, you need to have a source and a link. That does not include some random website.

#165 Pumpsie


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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:23 PM

Rumor out here is Joe Saunders to the Red Sox for Youkilis.


Just say NO! We have NO need for a Joe Saunders. The guy has a lifetime WHIP of about 1.4 in the AL. Terrible. If that's all you can get for Youks, you hang onto Youks. it's that simple.




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