83 replies to this topic

[drtooth]

Apparently none of the living GM's were. A bit strange. JWH was not aware of this.

http://www.csnne.com...92&feedID=10948

Terry Francona may be in attendance for Fenway's 100th anniversary Friday, but Theo Epstein won't be.

The general manager of the team's only two championship teams of the last 93 years was not invited to the celebration.

The news came as a surprise to principal owner John Henry, who said he was unaware of the decision until contacted by a reporter.

"Apparently we decided to just invite uniformed personnel," said Henry, noting that the team hadn't invited former GMs Mike Port and Dan Duquette either.


Epstein could not be reached for comment.

Edited by drtooth, 19 April 2012 - 12:10 PM.

[Harry Hooper]

This is pettiness on the highest level.

Agreed, very shabby show by LL & Co.

Dopes, you might want to break this ex-GM news out into its own thread.

[Hendu's Gait]

If LL and Co. were smart, they'd invite the immediate Epsteins, and introduce them as "on behalf" of theo (busy in Chicago etc.) like they do at the acceptances at awards shows,. and they'd get even louder applause than Theo perhaps.

[Clears Cleaver]

I am guessing the fan's reaction to Theo might be muted at best and hostile at worse

[Jinhocho]

Well, this is about what you expect from the Red Sox when LL is running them and JH is focused overseas to at least some degree. Shabby indeed.

[Jinhocho]

I am guessing the fan's reaction to Theo might be muted at best and hostile at worse

Guessing Theo will be all class - he has not been the sort to engage in this shit and even if pissed will recognize that it is in his own interest to let LL and co's actions do all the talking.

[Al Zarilla]

I am guessing the fan's reaction to Theo might be muted at best and hostile at worse

Nah. The distribution of people that will be in attendance, from pink hats to hardcores, will be a lot different from the distribution on SOSH. The vast majority would have cheered, IMO.

[86spike]

I cannot wait for this stupid celebration to be over.

[smastroyin]

Too bad the original Epstein died in January. They could have invited him.



On a more serious note, Duquette and Epstein have full time jobs with other teams. I don't think there is any reason to think they would be able to make an in-season celebration. I don't know what Port's deal is nowadays though. However, this doesn't have the stink of the pettiness of the Tito decision.

[HomeBrew1901]

On a more serious note, Duquette and Epstein have full time jobs with other teams. I don't think there is any reason to think they would be able to make an in-season celebration. I don't know what Port's deal is nowadays though. However, this doesn't have the stink of the pettiness of the Tito decision.

It doesn't have the same stink, but again shows how detached Henry is from this team.

[RGREELEY33]

Bob Lobel is reporting that Haywood Sullivan and Buddy Leroux were not invited. Shame on Larry.

[RedOctober3829]

If people don't think that simply sending an invitation to Theo Epstein is not the right thing to do or doesn't matter is not seeing the big picture. This ownership is so detached from reality it's insane. It doesn't matter that Theo(and Duquette) has a full-time job or not; he needs to be given the option to turn them down. This is a PR nightmare and they are bringing it on themselves. This team is a circus and a joke at this point. You have to recognize the job that Theo did for this franchise and realize that Henry wouldn't be making money hand over foot from this team if it wasn't for winning the '04 and '07 World Series. They are embarrassing themselves at every turn.

[yecul]

LL just wants to be loved. Out of sight out of mind, right? You're going to cheer him and his guys. Or else.

[86spike]

If people don't think that simply sending an invitation to Theo Epstein is not the right thing to do or doesn't matter is not seeing the big picture. This ownership is so detached from reality it's insane. It doesn't matter that Theo(and Duquette) has a full-time job or not; he needs to be given the option to turn them down. This is a PR nightmare and they are bringing it on themselves. This team is a circus and a joke at this point. You have to recognize the job that Theo did for this franchise and realize that Henry wouldn't be making money hand over foot from this team if it wasn't for winning the '04 and '07 World Series. They are embarrassing themselves at every turn.

a PR nightmare?

really?

Tomorrow's little festivities will come and go. Saturday's papers will have coverage. Some of it will probably mention that Epstein and Duquette weren't invited.

In the meantime one of two things will happen:

(A) the Sox will get their ass kicked by the MFYs and everyone will freak out about that, completely forgetting the 100 year party; or
(B) the Sox paly well against the MFYs and everyone will be pumped about that, completely forgetting the 100 year party.

no one will be talking about this dumb celebration by Monday.

[BelgianSoxFan]

If people don't think that simply sending an invitation to Theo Epstein is not the right thing to do or doesn't matter is not seeing the big picture. This ownership is so detached from reality it's insane. It doesn't matter that Theo(and Duquette) has a full-time job or not; he needs to be given the option to turn them down. This is a PR nightmare and they are bringing it on themselves. This team is a circus and a joke at this point. You have to recognize the job that Theo did for this franchise and realize that Henry wouldn't be making money hand over foot from this team if it wasn't for winning the '04 and '07 World Series. They are embarrassing themselves at every turn.

This is not a celebration of the '04 and '07 team, but of 100 years Fenway. If you invite Epstein, you have to invite all living GMs. You probably have to invite all living execs. It is like a wedding, at some point you have to make a cut. I would have invited all living GMs, but I dont know any of the details.

[Hendu's Gait]

This is not a celebration of the '04 and '07 team, but of 100 years Fenway. If you invite Epstein, you have to invite all living GMs. You probably have to invite all living execs. It is like a wedding, at some point you have to make a cut. I would have invited all living GMs, but I dont know any of the details.

1) Gorman is dead. Other than Theo, Port, Duke, and Hoyer, who is there?

2) Theo noticed the fatal flaw, made a gutsy trade, it worked out, giving the Red Sox their first title in 86 years. He deserves an invite to the wedding.

[glennhoffmania]

I am guessing the fan's reaction to Theo might be muted at best and hostile at worse

The only GM to win a WS in almost a century? I disagree.

[bankshot1]

Theo should have been invited to the party.

I also would like to see Pedro and the Gerbil dance to Sweet Caroline

Edited by bankshot1, 19 April 2012 - 01:14 PM.

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

It's okay, Theo will probably be there anyway using his old office. Shit, he announced the Cubs' Marshall trade from there. I think he was supposed to be in Fenway to raid the supply cabinet that weekend anyway.

[Pumpsie]

I cannot wait for this stupid celebration to be over.

Boy, you ain't kidding, spike. Public relations....a 20th century invention by Edward Bernays, first used to convince the American people that entering WW I was a great idea, based on his uncle Sigmund Freud's discoveries of the human subconscious, and causing nothing but rotten outcomes ever since. This 100th celebration thing will just be another vile cherry in the massive, stinking sundae of PR awfulness. Let's get it behind us.

[Rasputin]

I am guessing the fan's reaction to Theo might be muted at best and hostile at worse

Not a chance in hell.

Not inviting them is sheer stupidity. Someone fucked up.

[E5 Yaz]

[Yazdog8]

Boy, you ain't kidding, spike. Public relations....a 20th century invention by Edward Bernays, first used to convince the American people that entering WW I was a great idea, based on his uncle Sigmund Freud's discoveries of the human subconscious, and causing nothing but rotten outcomes ever since. This 100th celebration thing will just be another vile cherry in the massive, stinking sundae of PR awfulness. Let's get it behind us.

While I'm sure Theo has a love for the Red Sox, and the opportunity that the GM presented him, he absolutely loathed the Lucchino inspired PR/Marketing/Oversaturation of the market with all things Red Sox. Should he have been invited? Absolutely. I'm thinking he'd use his current position as an excuse to avoid this entirely.

[mauidano]

Anyone still talking about the Titanic today? 100 years, big news for a couple of days in public consciousness and done. These type of things aren't perfect; whatever. Enjoy the moment with who's there and then move on.

[86spike]

While I'm sure Theo has a love for the Red Sox, and the opportunity that the GM presented him, he absolutely loathed the Lucchino inspired PR/Marketing/Oversaturation of the market with all things Red Sox. Should he have been invited? Absolutely. I'm thinking he'd use his current position as an excuse to avoid this entirely.

The PR/Marketing/Oversaturation strategy that filled Fenway every night at ridiculous ticket prices and built huge TV audiences for NESN's advertisers? The one that filled Theo's budget with enough cash to be amongst the absolute biggest payrolls in the sport? That strategy?

Yeah, I'm sure he loathed it.

[Delicious Sponge]

You guys are forgetting they're setting the world record for the biggest toast. World record. That's the headline we'll be reading about.

[BelgianSoxFan]

While I'm sure Theo has a love for the Red Sox, and the opportunity that the GM presented him, he absolutely loathed the Lucchino inspired PR/Marketing/Oversaturation of the market with all things Red Sox. Should he have been invited? Absolutely. I'm thinking he'd use his current position as an excuse to avoid this entirely.

I am sure he loathed having one of the highest payrolls in baseball too. '04 and '07 does not happen with the A's payroll. The marketing allowed him to spend more than most teams.
Again, I would have invited all living GMs, but I understand making a cut-off at uniformed folks.

[Yazdog8]

The PR/Marketing/Oversaturation strategy that filled Fenway every night at ridiculous ticket prices and built huge TV audiences for NESN's advertisers? The one that filled Theo's budget with enough cash to be amongst the absolute biggest payrolls in the sport? That strategy? Yeah, I'm sure he loathed it.

He loved the constant Red Sox media maelstrom enough to leave Fenway in disguise.

http://boston.redsox...ws_bos&c_id=bos

"At some point, there's sort of a lot of pressure to have big names or to win every single year, which is not part of the small-market mentality," Epstein said. "It's usually more of a building effort ... It's more of a balancing, a need to take a small step back to ensure a better long-term future. You fight that fight for a while in a big market, I think when you're at your best, you fight it successfully.
"Sometimes the sheer force of being a big market kind of takes over. But it is what it is. There's tremendous resources that come with being a big market, there's also potential pitfalls. I think every small market would trade places for the opportunities that come with more resources."

Now, the debate on whether Theo fought that temptation successfully has been already hashed out on this board ad nauseum. There was certainly a constant pressure to have big names towards the end of his reign. For such a private guy, I don't think he liked the constant media circus both around the team (and his moves) and somewhat around his private life. There's still somewhat of a circus atmosphere in general, and especially what's going on after last September. While it's nice to be honored, I think that he's just rather avoid it all as he's the GM for the Cubs now. That's all I'm saying.

edit: clarity

Edited by Yazdog8, 19 April 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[86spike]

2) Theo noticed the fatal flaw, made a gutsy trade, it worked out, giving the Red Sox their first title in 86 years. He deserves an invite to the wedding.

Theo is also the groom's ex-wife who just dumped him and left town with another guy while leaving her credit card debt on the groom's account.

That chick doesn't get invited to the wedding.

[TomRicardo]

God I hate Lucchino. He is the worst thing attached to any Boston based team, Lackey included.

[Myt1]

Anyone still talking about the Titanic today? 100 years, big news for a couple of days in public consciousness and done. These type of things aren't perfect; whatever. Enjoy the moment with who's there and then move on.

[JimD]

This would have been a footnote in one of Cafardo’s columns if they hadn’t been so petty about inviting Tito.

[E5 Yaz]

Anyone still talking about the Titanic today? 100 years, big news for a couple of days in public consciousness and done. These type of things aren't perfect; whatever. Enjoy the moment with who's there and then move on.

[wutang112878]

This is really classless. My first reaction is to critique Larry, but after thinking about this a bit more this is really Henry and Werners fault. There has been more than enough evidence and issues that have come up to demonstrate how Larry operates. They either dont care that he can be a scumbag when he chooses to be and have decided to allow him to be that way because he makes them money, or they arent involved enough in the day to day operations, its one or the other. Either way, it give me a reason not to like them as owners.

I can understand the 'we cant invite everyone' issue, but how many living GMs are there? Would it add another 10 or 20 people? If they invited every person 'every in uniform', there really isnt anyway they could invite all living GMs? That just makes zero sense. I think they could maybe forget to mail the invitation to say Carl Everett, Lugo, Clemens, Offerman, Lansing, Alcantara, and Cordero to make room for them.

[litigator02]

"Shabby"? "Classless"? When did our collective sphincter become this delicate?

Guess who else wasn't invited: every year's batboys. All the career AAA guys who spent their careers trying for, but never quite getting to, Fenway. All of the groundskeepers and maintenance staff of the past 100 years, who were the ones who actually kept Fenway standing and playable long past its intended lifespan. The GMs, assistant GMs, special assistants to the president, area scouts, cross-checking scouts, wives of scouts, and wives of players. The same-sex partners of same. You. Me. Lots of people who had lots to do with the Sox over the last century.

FFS, the reactionary pissing and moaning about any and everything related to ownership and Bobby V around here for the last few months is unbelievable. In 2003, the board didn't have anywhere near this much knee-jerk snark, and the team hadn't won anything in 85 years at that point. The number of people locked into "whatever ownership/management do, I'm opposed" mindsets is staggering. At some point, you've got to run out of indignation.

[RedOctober3829]

"Shabby"? "Classless"? When did our collective sphincter become this delicate?

Guess who else wasn't invited: every year's batboys. All the career AAA guys who spent their careers trying for, but never quite getting to, Fenway. All of the groundskeepers and maintenance staff of the past 100 years, who were the ones who actually kept Fenway standing and playable long past its intended lifespan. The GMs, assistant GMs, special assistants to the president, area scouts, cross-checking scouts, wives of scouts, and wives of players. The same-sex partners of same. You. Me. Lots of people who had lots to do with the Sox over the last century.

FFS, the reactionary pissing and moaning about any and everything related to ownership and Bobby V around here for the last few months is unbelievable. In 2003, the board didn't have anywhere near this much knee-jerk snark, and the team hadn't won anything in 85 years at that point. The number of people locked into "whatever ownership/management do, I'm opposed" mindsets is staggering. At some point, you've got to run out of indignation.

I haven't been opposed to pretty much anything ownership has done until recently where it's evident they've botched one thing after another. You comparing what Theo Epstein and Duquette did for this franchise to the groundskeepers and career AAA guys is laughable. Those two led the efforts to draft and sign players that resulted in the only 2 world championships since 1918. To not even extend invitations to them is not right.

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

You guys are forgetting they're setting the world record for the biggest toast.

[rembrat]

According to a team source, former Red Sox GM Theo Epstein has been invited to attend Friday's game, in which the Fenway Park is celebrating its 100th anniversary. Epstein was not, however, extended an invitation to participate in the pre-game ceremony, which was designated for uniformed personnel only. It is believed the invitation to attend the game was delivered via phone call.

According to another source, the invitation for Epstein to attend the game wasn't extended until Thursday afternoon.

http://www.weei.com/...heo-fenway-bash

[NomarRS05]

You mean the GM who loaded up the 2012 Red Sox with bloated contracts, left the farm system bare and cut and run won't be here to smile and wave to the crowd? What a shame.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

The only GM to win a WS in almost a century? I disagree.

Two words explain why I think you are mistaken here:

John

Lackey

FFS, the reactionary pissing and moaning about any and everything related to ownership and Bobby V around here for the last few months is unbelievable. In 2003, the board didn't have anywhere near this much knee-jerk snark, and the team hadn't won anything in 85 years at that point. The number of people locked into "whatever ownership/management do, I'm opposed" mindsets is staggering. At some point, you've got to run out of indignation.

Amen, brother.

Edited by Gene Conleys Plane Ticket, 19 April 2012 - 04:01 PM.

[gammoseditor]

This whole event has clearly been handled poorly but I think it's unfair to blame ownership. John Henry and even Larry Lucchino have better things to do with their time than to make out an invite list.

[Foulkey Reese]

The good news is that the game is at 3pm on a workday so the vast majority of people won't even be able to watch it. Well done with that.

[koufax32]

You are a wonderful human bean. Thank you.

[rembrat]

The good news is that the game is at 3pm on a workday so the vast majority of people won't even be able to watch it. Well done with that.

I really don't understand this at all.

[RedOctober3829]

I really don't understand this at all.

It's the time of the first game ever in Fenway.

[Foulkey Reese]

It's the time of the first game ever in Fenway.

That's so stupid that it makes me want to break something.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

It's the time of the first game ever in Fenway.

Are they going to let fans stand in the outfield during the game?

[Hendu's Gait]

Are they going to let fans stand in the outfield during the game?

Who cares about that. As long as they have the same prices for hookers, food, and alcohol, as in 1912, and the same success in the playoffs, I would have no problem with a 3:15 first pitch.

[RedOctober3829]

Are they going to let fans stand in the outfield during the game?

I'm sure a couple people could be better OFers than Cody Ross.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

It doesn't have the same stink, but again shows how detached Henry is from this team.

I dunno. I'd like to think the owner of a sports empire as large as Henry's isn't too involved in the invitation process. He may have assumed that he didn't need to say: "also make sure to invite the GMs." They didn't. He didn't know. They asked him about it. He said he didn't know.

Yeah, the event is a big deal, and I'd like to think Henry is engaged big picture. But he's got people for the details. Sometimes the people underneath fuck up. That doesn't mean you're not paying attention.