20 replies to this topic

[wine111]

I say we keep Lester, Bard, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Clay B, Adrian Gonzalez and Ryan Lavarnway (who should be back up soon). The rest we should get rid of at all costs including absorbing up to 50% salary due to Crawford, Lackey and Beckett. This team needs to be rebuilt. Mix in some younger acquired players after trading Youk (perhaps to the Tigers for a couple of solid prospects so the Tigers can put the terrible glove of Miguel Cabrera away and let Youk play third) and Ortiz (perhaps to Texas where Michael Young can move to 1b and Ortiz DH).

Beckett could be sent to St. Louis and the best pitching coach in baseball in Dave Duncan to help them compensate somewhat for the loss of Chris Carpenter. If we pay 50 % of his salary, we may get a useful package of Allen Craig or Jon Jay and a pitching prospect or two. Crawford we may be stuck with. Salty could be kept. I just don't see him as a priority keeper. This is all up for debate. Just a few suggestions.

Edited by wine111, 15 April 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[BellhornIsGod]

Dave Duncan is no longer the pitching coach for the Cardinals.

Also, trading Crawford, who is owed 123 million dollars over the next 6 years, while he is recovering from wrist surgery..is the definition of selling low. Not to mention "paying half his salary" would be 61.5 million dollars flushed away. Crawford may be a sunk cost, but it's way to early to just flat out dump him.

Beckett had a 2.89 ERA over 193 innings last year. He had 2 shitty starts in his last 2 games. This year he has had one awful, and one fantastic start. Paying a team 25.5 million (of his remaining 51) to take him makes very little sense. Who replaces him in the rotation this year or next?

Lackey is owed 49 million dollars thru 2015. He is like 6-8 months away from being ready to pitch. He is coming off perhaps, the worst season of all time. How many teams are lining up to give that guy, who will be 34 next year, 25 million bucks over 3 years? You'd have to pay closer to 75-80% to even get a team to take him for nothing in return. See if he can bounce back to even 2010 levels next year. If not, release his stupid face.

If the Sox really are completely out of it by July, I have no problem dealing guys like Youkilis or Ortiz for young talent, but just straight dumping guys and paying upwards of 100 million to teams to take them? Horrible management.

[Sampo Gida]

Short of a disaster (injuries) of 2010, 2006 and 2001 proportions, this is unlikely, however, those who go in trades would be

Mike Aviles (to make room for Iglesias)

Youk (to make room for WMB)

Shoppach (to make room for Lavarnway)

Daisuke (after a couple of starts)

One of Cody Ross/D-Mac/Sweeney (to make room for Kalish)

Some of these might happen anyways.

Nobody else you could trade that makes sense, as those players either are productive and expected to be so in 2013, useless (no trade value), injured, or way too expensive to find a trading partner w/o eating most of the salary.

Of course, if this were to happen and injuries were not the reason for it, you look at the manager, coaches and GM.

[MikeM]

I have my doubts that it's even in this ownership's makeup to approve such a fire sale to begin with. More likely they'd go down swinging for the fence imo, looking for the best possible finish that they could/would spin on latter even in the event it fell short. Things would have to be worst record in baseball, 15+ games out of the wild card type dire for this to even begin to be a possibility imo. With the chances of that happening being beyond "unlikely", fwiw.

That said, we really don't have anything to trade that's realistically going to bring back a noteworthy return. Youk possibly brings back a solid prospect in the event he's having a 2008-2010 type year, but other then that they either make too much money, or simply are not talented enough to generate much beyond "i'll take his salary off your hands" appeal (given that if Aviles ends up being worth anything, it's a fairly safe bet he'll be sticking around with 2 more arby years under our control)

[alwyn96]

If the Sox are 15 out at the All-Star break, that means that several players are either horribly injured or dead and still playing in some sort of zombie form. At that point you probably get rid of the dead players before they eat the brains of the younger prospects or Jenny Dell.

[Tyrone Biggums]

This team won't be 15 games out, they're actually off to a better start than last year. Could we wait a little bit longer than 13 games before we call for the team to be blown up?

[Papo The Snow Tiger]

They'll be lucky not to be 15 games out by Memorial Day.

[ivanvamp]

After Sunday, their next 21 games are against: Min, Chi, Oak, Bal, KC, Cle, and Sea. The way this team is playing, that is pretty formidable, but really, it's much easier than what they've played so far. They have a chance, by the end of that stretch, to have stabilized this thing, gotten back to .500, be within 5-6 games of first place perhaps, and get it together.

Not much can be done to "fix" things. Just keep running those guys out there, hope that Crawford is the good Crawford, maybe bring Lavarnway up, but otherwise, just hope that the guys get their act together. I mean, Aceves isn't going to have a 24.00 era the whole year, right? The bullpen isn't going to have a 9.00+ era the whole year, no matter who is out there, so things will come around.

[LostinNJ]

The thread is less about who should stay than who should go. Of course they should wait -- nobody makes big trades in April, and maybe they can climb back towards contention. Besides, waving the white flag now would be bad for the bottom line.

But by July, it will very likely be obvious that the 2012 Red Sox aren't going anywhere, and then it will be time to look to the future. I would absolutely trade:

• Youkilis, if there's a market for him, to make room for Middlebrooks
• Saltalamacchia to make room for Lavarnway
• Aviles to make room for Iglesias
• Beckett for a blue-chip prospect, maybe even to the Yankees
• Ellsbury for a huge prospect haul

And then I would eagerly await the 2014 season.

[Tyrone Biggums]

The thread is less about who should stay than who should go. Of course they should wait -- nobody makes big trades in April, and maybe they can climb back towards contention. Besides, waving the white flag now would be bad for the bottom line.

But by July, it will very likely be obvious that the 2012 Red Sox aren't going anywhere, and then it will be time to look to the future. I would absolutely trade:

• Youkilis, if there's a market for him, to make room for Middlebrooks
• Saltalamacchia to make room for Lavarnway
• Aviles to make room for Iglesias
• Beckett for a blue-chip prospect, maybe even to the Yankees
• Ellsbury for a huge prospect haul

And then I would eagerly await the 2014 season.

I don't get why people want to jump off the ship after 14 games. It's way too soon to write off this team as if they had started the year like this last year Francona would still be managing the sox.

That being said outside of your idea to trade Beckett to the Yankees it does make some sense. However let's wait and see how this all plays out. I think the only one who will actually be traded sooner rather than later is Youkilis, if you can get an equally talented SP for him then pull the trigger.

The Pittsburgh Pirates have been eagerly awaiting next year since 92...I'm not a fan of throwing a few years away on the prime years of Pedroia Lester etc...If you're going to rebuild you have to trade Pedroia which wouldn't make much sense.

Edited by Tyrone Biggums, 22 April 2012 - 01:07 PM.

[LostinNJ]

I don't get why people want to jump off the ship after 14 games. It's way too soon to write off this team as if they had started the year like this last year Francona would still be managing the sox.

That being said outside of your idea to trade Beckett to the Yankees it does make some sense. However let's wait and see how this all plays out. I think the only one who will actually be traded sooner rather than later is Youkilis, if you can get an equally talented SP for him then pull the trigger.

The Pittsburgh Pirates have been eagerly awaiting next year since 92...I'm not a fan of throwing a few years away on the prime years of Pedroia Lester etc...If you're going to rebuild you have to trade Pedroia which wouldn't make much sense.

Not Pedroia -- unlike the other guys I listed, he has a lot of great years ahead of him, and he loves playing in Boston. Plus I like him.

Beckett to the Yankees makes perfect sense if you forget about hating the Yankees for a minute. They can afford his salary, and they have two hotshot starting pitcher prospects. If this team isn't going to contend now, I'd rather start 2013 with one of them on the roster for the next six years than Josh Beckett for the next two.

This isn't jumping ship, just thinking ahead. Obviously, if the team is in contention in July, you don't trade any of these guys. But if it's a lost cause, be aggressive in setting the stage for future success.

[jaysun6770]

It's. Easy we need pitching we can't get pitching unless we trade BUT we are in a weird spot because rich hill, dice k, Andrew miller, mark melanin, Aaron cook, are in minors and they are expected in majors this year I would see only one or two trades of a fielder fr a good reliever that's it. Send Justin Thomas down cut Padilla if he keeps blowing games. Let everyone come back for injurys

[Tyrone Biggums]

Not Pedroia -- unlike the other guys I listed, he has a lot of great years ahead of him, and he loves playing in Boston. Plus I like him.

Beckett to the Yankees makes perfect sense if you forget about hating the Yankees for a minute. They can afford his salary, and they have two hotshot starting pitcher prospects. If this team isn't going to contend now, I'd rather start 2013 with one of them on the roster for the next six years than Josh Beckett for the next two.

This isn't jumping ship, just thinking ahead. Obviously, if the team is in contention in July, you don't trade any of these guys. But if it's a lost cause, be aggressive in setting the stage for future success.

If the Yankees had great pitching prospects then I wouldn't have an issue trading Beckett. However, if for whatever reason Cincy offers the Sox say Bailey their young catching prospect and Chapman for Beckett I would drive Beckett to Logan personally. I just think there's a lot of smoke and mirrors in that system. If you're going to trade a guy who pitched like an ace 5 months out of the year in 2011 you need to get comparable value. Obviously the Cincy thought is far fetched but Beckett still has a ton of value especially to a national league team.

[alwyn96]

If the Yankees had great pitching prospects then I wouldn't have an issue trading Beckett. However, if for whatever reason Cincy offers the Sox say Bailey their young catching prospect and Chapman for Beckett I would drive Beckett to Logan personally. I just think there's a lot of smoke and mirrors in that system. If you're going to trade a guy who pitched like an ace 5 months out of the year in 2011 you need to get comparable value. Obviously the Cincy thought is far fetched but Beckett still has a ton of value especially to a national league team.

The Yankees do have some very good pitching prospects, but they aren't trading them to the Red Sox so that's a dead end.

Why are we trading Beckett again? It's not like the Red Sox are awash in great pitching. Trading him just creates another hole to fill, and other teams aren't going to trade their young, better and cheaper than Beckett players for him.

[LostinNJ]

The Yankees do have some very good pitching prospects, but they aren't trading them to the Red Sox so that's a dead end.

Why are we trading Beckett again? It's not like the Red Sox are awash in great pitching. Trading him just creates another hole to fill, and other teams aren't going to trade their young, better and cheaper than Beckett players for him.

Unless something changes, for 2013 the Red Sox have these starters: Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Doubront, Lackey. Now, lots of things could force us to revise that list: health issues, changed roles, skills implosions, trades. But if none of those things happen, the team is in a position to make a really advantageous trade. Very good starting pitchers are valuable commodities; if you have an extra one, you can do yourself a lot of good. I agree the Yankees won't want to trade with us, but if they're in a pennant push and feel a guy like Beckett could put them over the top, I believe they would mortgage the future to go for it now. That's what they've done countless times in the past, and it's what they should do with an aging core of veterans for whom this could be the last hurrah.

[Tyrone Biggums]

Unless something changes, for 2013 the Red Sox have these starters: Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Doubront, Lackey. Now, lots of things could force us to revise that list: health issues, changed roles, skills implosions, trades. But if none of those things happen, the team is in a position to make a really advantageous trade. Very good starting pitchers are valuable commodities; if you have an extra one, you can do yourself a lot of good. I agree the Yankees won't want to trade with us, but if they're in a pennant push and feel a guy like Beckett could put them over the top, I believe they would mortgage the future to go for it now. That's what they've done countless times in the past, and it's what they should do with an aging core of veterans for whom this could be the last hurrah.

But if the Sox win the next 7 games everyone is back on the bandwagon and all the talk about blowing it up is shelved. If a package came along that helped us now and the future I would trade Beckett otherwise there really isn't a point.

[wine111]

This team won't be 15 games out, they're actually off to a better start than last year. Could we wait a little bit longer than 13 games before we call for the team to be blown up?

We're 7 1/2 games out as of today. Halfway there. Wow! This is truly a dismal baseball team to watch. The great slugger turned reliever Chris Davis shut
us out for two innings in Fenway. Ugh!

Edited by wine111, 06 May 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[sancap14]

If Pedroia ended up on the DL I have no doubt we would be the worst team in baseball. Just disgusting.

[BostonBrahmin]

They should see if they could get Kameron Loe from Milwaukee for Youk. They'd have to eat some salary, but it might be a good deal for both teams.

[wine111]

After Sunday, their next 21 games are against: Min, Chi, Oak, Bal, KC, Cle, and Sea. The way this team is playing, that is pretty formidable, but really, it's much easier than what they've played so far. They have a chance, by the end of that stretch, to have stabilized this thing, gotten back to .500, be within 5-6 games of first place perhaps, and get it together.

Not much can be done to "fix" things. Just keep running those guys out there, hope that Crawford is the good Crawford, maybe bring Lavarnway up, but otherwise, just hope that the guys get their act together. I mean, Aceves isn't going to have a 24.00 era the whole year, right? The bullpen isn't going to have a 9.00+ era the whole year, no matter who is out there, so things will come around.

Unfortunately, they have started out 8-8 for the first 16 games (2-8.after winning the first six). Signs of life versus Cleveland and Seattle, please! By the way, Middlebrooks was an obvious keep in addition to Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Gonzalez, Clay B, Bard and Lavarnway. I would have to acknowledge that we would have to keep Crawford and Lackey. Rich Hill, Franklin Morales, Scott Atchison, Matt Albers, Andrew Miller, Aaron Cook, Andrew Bailey and Mark Melancon all would not have any real trade value anyway. Dubrondt may be good enough to keep as a fifth starter. Aviles and Iglesias should be kept because they also have negligible trade value (I think until he hits at least a little, Iglesias is seen as a utility infielder by most MLB teams).

In 2013, that would likely leave us with Lavarnway at C, Gonzalez at 1B, Pedroia at 2B, Aviles or Iglesias at SS and Middlebrooks at 3B. Our outfield would be Ellsbury in CF, Crawford in LF and Kalish in RF. We could resign Ross as DH. Our rotation would be Lester, Clay B., Bard, Dubrondt and Lackey. Our bullpen would be 7 out of the 8 pitchers listed above between Hill to Melancon or Tazawa or Alex Wilson. That is before trading Beckett, Ortiz, Aceves, Youk and Salty. The change in the team may not be as debilitating as some people think. But it may acquire some serious $$ to absorb some of Beckett's contract to get the talent back that we want for him. I think my original post for this thread was too far ranging and expensive. Crawford and Lackey aren't going anywhere, realistically. It would be too financially debilitating to cover all those contracts all at once. We may have to wait for free agency to get a starting pitcher to replace Lackey or Dubrondt. We may combine Beckett and Youk in the same trade to get the maximum prospect haul for a team that wants to win this year (L.A. Angels?). Adding a pitching prospect with potential similar to Anthony Ranaudo or Matt Barnes would be important to our future.

Edited by wine111, 11 May 2012 - 04:00 AM.

[BoredViewer]

Beckett + Youkilis for Aroldis Chapman, a prospect and some contract filler.

They owe us one.