214 replies to this topic

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

Thanks DRS.

That'll be ten dollars

[Redkluzu]

You docs never charge $10

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

Link to complete article:
http://www.weei.com/...d-be-dislocated

He cites an "industry source with knowledge of the situation"...I don't know if he's referring to that doctor he mentioned earlier or someone inside the Sox. Or he just read DRS post above.

I believe I'm the "industry source", and I'm going strictly off the video I saw. Keep in mind, however, I'm WILDLY intelligent.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

You docs never charge $10

That's his "diagnosis from 250 feet away after eight beers" rate.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

That's his "diagnosis from 250 feet away after eight beers" rate.

Well played.

To be fair, I did watch the video sober and at very close proximity. His shoulder goes back... and to the left

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

I believe I'm the "industry source", and I'm going strictly off the video I saw. Keep in mind, however, I'm WILDLY intelligent.

I believe you're right. I added the DRS comment after realizing they were identical diagnoses. When Speier said his source had "knowledge about the situation", I initially assumed it was somebody inside MLB...but I guess not. I'm a dumbass for quoting him in retrospect.

Edited by BannedbyNYYFans.com, 13 April 2012 - 09:25 PM.

[SoxScout]

I read it as DRS was the 8:46 story and someone else was the 9:47 story. Why wouldn't he use the name he had earlier in the second story?

Edited by SoxScout, 13 April 2012 - 09:29 PM.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

I read it as DRS was the 8:46 story and someone else was the 9:47 story. Why wouldn't he use the name he had earlier in the second story?

I stand corrected - I think this is actually correct. Unfortunately for Sox, me and the "industry source" came up with the same diagnosis - subluxation, torn labrum. Timeframe and course of action yet to be announced.

Anyone want to buy a crapload of season tickets?

[E5 Yaz]

I stand corrected - I think this is actually correct. Unfortunately for Sox, me and the "industry source" came up with the same diagnosis - subluxation, torn labrum. Timeframe and course of action yet to be announced.

Anyone want to buy a crapload of season tickets?

I'll give you ten dollars

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I stand corrected - I think this is actually correct. Unfortunately for Sox, me and the "industry source" came up with the same diagnosis - subluxation, torn labrum. Timeframe and course of action yet to be announced.

Anyone want to buy a crapload of season tickets?

I'll give you a dollar... for each one!

If it ends up being a torn labrum, we'll be lucky to see the MVP Ellsbury at any point this season. Even if he gets back on the field, and there'd be a realistic chance of him doing so in 2012 assuming immediate surgery and physical therapy, he's likely to have his power sapped until some time next season.

A labrum tear would absolutely suck and could mean an increased risk of re-injury and issues down the road. The broken ribs didn't worry me regarding his long term performance, but a torn labrum would. Of course, Gonzo has been able to get back to form and we're all hoping Kalish will do so as well, so I might just be over sensitive about the possibility since I've gone through the injury and have daily pain that my doctor has told me might be permanent. Of course, I'm not a professional athlete and wasn't in very good shape when I got injured, so my experience has about zero relevance to Ellsbury's if it turns out he did tear his labrum.

I'm just gonna hope that isn't the case and that all this worrying is for naught.

[Harry Hooper]

Opening Day shoulder injury...sounds familiar


Raise your hand if you'd be happy with a return in 6 weeks a la Jeter.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

I'll give you a dollar... for each one!

If it ends up being a torn labrum, we'll be lucky to see the MVP Ellsbury at any point this season. Even if he gets back on the field, and there'd be a realistic chance of him doing so in 2012 assuming immediate surgery and physical therapy, he's likely to have his power sapped until some time next season.

A labrum tear would absolutely suck and could mean an increased risk of re-injury and issues down the road. The broken ribs didn't worry me regarding his long term performance, but a torn labrum would. Of course, Gonzo has been able to get back to form and we're all hoping Kalish will do so as well, so I might just be over sensitive about the possibility since I've gone through the injury and have daily pain that my doctor has told me might be permanent. Of course, I'm not a professional athlete and wasn't in very good shape when I got injured, so my experience has about zero relevance to Ellsbury's if it turns out he did tear his labrum.

I'm just gonna hope that isn't the case and that all this worrying is for naught.

For the record, Kalish's situation is much more analagous to Ellsbury's than is Gonzo's - both labral tears but in different areas, causing different symptoms - instability in Kalish/Ells, pain in Gonzo.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

Opening Day shoulder injury...sounds familiar


Raise your hand if you'd be happy with a return in 6 weeks a la Jeter.

This, indeed.

Also not Jeter's throwing shoulder, interestingly.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

For the record, Kalish's situation is much more analagous to Ellsbury's than is Gonzo's - both labral tears but in different areas, causing different symptoms - instability in Kalish/Ells, pain in Gonzo.

From the angle his shoulder moved, I imagine it would be similar to mine. My tear was in the front of my shoulder, near the nerve that runs down into the arm.

[rembrat]

All signs are pointing to an extended DL trip for Ells so what does it mean for the lineup vs RHP? And who leads off? Dont say Nick Punto.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

From the angle his shoulder moved, I imagine it would be similar to mine. My tear was in the front of my shoulder, near the nerve that runs down into the arm.

Did your doctor call it a SLAP tear or a Bankart tear?

[Snodgrass'Muff]

SLAP.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

All signs are pointing to an extended DL trip for Ells so what does it mean for the lineup vs RHP? And who leads off? Dont say Nick Punto.

I honestly don't know. I haven't given much thought to how I would replace Ellsbury in the lineup this year. A quick look at splits suggest Sweeney would be decent (.365 OBP vs RHP last year) or they could move Pedroia up to lead off and try Crawford at 2 with the hope that he bounces back.

This is one of the worst things that could have happened to the lineup this year.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

SLAP.

That's more like Gonzo, not Ells and Kalish.

Don't get me wrong, they all suck, they're just different.

[JakeRae]

All signs are pointing to an extended DL trip for Ells so what does it mean for the lineup vs RHP? And who leads off? Dont say Nick Punto.

Sweeney?

[Buzzkill Pauley]

All signs are pointing to an extended DL trip for Ells so what does it mean for the lineup vs RHP? And who leads off? Dont say Nick Punto.

Spoiler

Nick Punto

Spoiler

Not really, I think Sweeney-Pedroia makes the most sense as the 1-2 or 2-1

[Harry Hooper]

FWIW, here's a site with anatomical illustrations.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

Can anyone tell me how to insert images? I'm not the best with the interwebz, but I can post some pics of an actual, HIPPA-compliant labral repair if I can figure out how.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

There's a little picture icon in the post window. It's two to the right from the link symbol (a chain link icon). Click it and insert the url for the pic (right click the picture, click copy link location) then click OK.

[Sprowl]

Can anyone tell me how to insert images? I'm not the best with the interwebz, but I can post some pics of an actual, HIPPA-compliant labral repair if I can figure out how.

Copy the URL address of the image, go to SoSH "Reply to this topic" window, click on the image/picture icon in the second row (the icon looks something like a landscape), paste URL in the screen that pops up, then post.

[Dogman2]

I honestly don't know. I haven't given much thought to how I would replace Ellsbury in the lineup this year. A quick look at splits suggest Sweeney would be decent (.365 OBP vs RHP last year) or they could move Pedroia up to lead off and try Crawford at 2 with the hope that he bounces back.

This is one of the worst things that could have happened to the lineup this year.

I put it behind Aviles, Punto, Ross, Salty, Shoppach and Sweeney each getting about 350 PA apiece. To each their own.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

Copy the URL address of the image, go to SoSH "Reply to this topic" window, click on the image/picture icon in the second row (the icon looks something like a landscape), paste URL in the screen that pops up, then post.

Thanks - what if it is just a jpg file I have on my computer - do I have to upload it to the web first?

[Sprowl]

Thanks - what if it is just a jpg file I have on my computer - do I have to upload it to the web first?

It has to be hosted somewhere first. I can put them on Photobucket for you, if you like.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Thanks - what if it is just a jpg file I have on my computer - do I have to upload it to the web first?

Yeah, a site like photobucket or flicker would work fine.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

It has to be hosted somewhere first. I can put them on Photobucket for you, if you like.

That seems like a lot of work...

Just kidding, I'll get to it tomorrow. I'm going to go to bed now and try to forget that Reid Brignac was ever born.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I put it behind Aviles, Punto, Ross, Salty, Shoppach and Sweeney each getting about 350 PA apiece. To each their own.

The downgrade from Scutaro to Aviles and Punto, is nowhere near equal to the loss of Ellsbury from the lineup. As for Salty and Shoppach, and Sweeney and Ross, the Sox are treading water or improving from Salty and Tek or Drew and Reddick last year, so I'm not really sure what your point is... unless you're mad that they didn't magically acquire Justin Upton and Carlos Santana.

[Dogman2]

The downgrade from Scutaro to Aviles and Punto, is nowhere near equal to the loss of Ellsbury from the lineup. As for Salty and Shoppach, and Sweeney and Ross, the Sox are treading water or improving from Salty and Tek or Drew and Reddick last year, so I'm not really sure what your point is... unless you're mad that they didn't magically acquire Justin Upton and Carlos Santana.

If the Sox are treading water on those 6 positions this year, the loss of Ellsbury won't really matter.

[TheYaz67]

And things like this are why it is (always) way more likely this team wins 85 than 100.... everything has to go just right to win 100, whereas an injury to a couple major players and regression by others can easily submarine a season...

[Snodgrass'Muff]

If the Sox are treading water on those 6 positions this year, the loss of Ellsbury won't really matter.

So the best offense in baseball last year treading water in the off season isn't good enough? Right...

[JakeRae]

And things like this are why it is (always) way more likely this team wins 85 than 100.... everything has to go just right to win 100, whereas an injury to a couple major players and regression by others can easily submarine a season...

85 is still way too pessimistic for the current team, even if Ellsbury is done.

[Dogman2]

So the best offense in baseball last year treading water in the off season isn't good enough? Right...

Treading water from those 6 players = getting an average of roughly .230/.320/.400 from those 2100 PA. Ellsbury's near MVP last season couldn't save them. You are way to dependent on the top 5 producing/not getting injured similar to last season.

Edited by Dogman2, 13 April 2012 - 11:05 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

He cites an "industry source with knowledge of the situation"...I don't know if he's referring to that doctor he mentioned earlier or someone inside the Sox. Or he just read DRS post above.

They DO seem somewhat similar

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

85 is still way too pessimistic for the current team, even if Ellsbury is done.

Its really unclear because injuries to key players tend to have a compound effect. The Sox are likely to suffer a drop off from Ellsbury's production AND potentially from the change in the line-up. Nick Punto gets a lot of abuse around these parts, most of it for good reason, but a lot of the scorn is for something he really has no control over - where he hits in the line-up. If B5 decides to hit Punto and his lifetime .325 OBP at the lead-off spot this injury may hurt the Sox in more ways than one.

Are Reid Brignac and Bernard Pollard related?

Edited by DeJesus Built My Hotrod, 13 April 2012 - 11:48 PM.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Treading water from those 6 players = getting an average of roughly .230/.320/.400 from those 2100 PA. Ellsbury's near MVP last season couldn't save them. You are way to dependent on the top 5 producing/not getting injured similar to last season.

Actually, it broke down like this in 2011:

RF: 649 PA's, .233/.299/.353
SS: 675 PA's, .279/.330/.401
C: 645 PA's, .229/.291/.446

for a total of 1969, .247/.305/.372 if you want to be technical, but an improvement in RF could certainly get them up to .320/.400 for OBP and SLG this year. But that's not really the point. The point is that last year's team, even with a .247/.305/.372 slash line from their catchers, short stops and right fielders was still the highest scoring offense in baseball. If they have tread water or better in those positions, then the offense should not be in trouble, and is certainly not going to be a bigger problem than losing Ellsbury's bat entirely.

Pitching was the problem last year, not the bats. Arguing the offense wasn't good enough to start the year because they were "only" as good as last year is idiotic. No team in the majors scored as many runs as the Red Sox. Coming into this season, the offense was just fine, even if they regressed a bit.

So again, I don't see your point unless your point. There is simply no way that having Aviles, Punto, Ross, Sweeney, Salty and Shoppach getting 2100 or so PA's is a bigger problem than losing Ellsbury for a huge chunk of the year. At worst, they were still a top 5 offense in the AL coming into the season, and that's with as dismal a view of the lineup as is even close to reasonable.

[Manramsclan]

Are Reid Brignac and Bernard Pollard related?

Sadly, they are now.

The compounding effect is a great point. We've already seen this in the bullpen with the loss of Bailey.

Also, the OF depth took a hit with that trade. Reddick would've been a good backup plan for Ellsbury.

Now the Sox have neither.

I'm not saying that there was anything to be done differently. I am merely stating that impact of the loss of Ellsbury on this team cannot be understated.

Now the Sox have holes at two major positions: CF and Bullpen Ace. Considering CF is one of the most important position on the diamond and Ells was arguably in the top 3 of Sox position players this is a huge loss, even for 6 weeks.

Thinking otherwise is just whistling past the graveyard. This team is in deep trouble and the vaunted $100 Million developmental machine doesn't have any OF prospects to step up and mitigate the void.

[LeoCarrillo]

I love this Ells despair.

A year ago he was a (SPAM filter) whom Youk allegedly insinuated (SPAM filter)-like insinutations. Then he became an almost MVP.

Fuck sake. Let Beckett be a grump. Bring up Lavarnway asap. Hope for health.

Shit. Two months from now when Carl Crawford is an MVP candidate, we'll all be looking underneath to find out where our ass is.

[LeoCarrillo]

I love this Ells despair.

A year ago he was a (SPAM filter) whom Youk allegedly insinuated (SPAM filter)-like insinutations. Then he became an almost MVP.

Fuck sake. Let Beckett be a grump. Bring up Lavarnway asap. Hope for health.

Shit. Two months from now when Carl Crawford is an MVP candidate, we'll all be looking underneath to find out where our ass is.

Pints, yes. Ommegang from upstate NY. Good brew...

[LeoCarrillo]

Sorry. I came in here buzzed, and I think killed the conversation. I'll try to not do that next time.

Might as well provide entertainment. Really early reggae:

Edited by LeoCarrillo, 14 April 2012 - 02:03 AM.

[drtooth]

That'll be ten dollars

If it's Blue Cross, make that $4.

My fears here are that

1. If there is any likelihood of surgery, Boras may push Ellsbury toward surgery to protect his FA status ($$) in 2013.

2. Valentine (and his rather large ego) may try to prove how brilliant he is by using this as an opportunity to get Punto into the lead off spot, thus turning the majority of this line up into a black hole

[SydneySox]

This is all just Bad Karma. No way you could gave predicted anyone good on the Sox would be injured.

[luckysox]

I'll add my two sense and experience. I was going to post in the gamethread about this, but there was a lot of guessing and and subsequent pissiness about said guessing, and I had only seen the replay once. I had the Bankart tear from a basketball injury in college, basically the same trauma, where a player fell on my extended shoulder as I was already on the floor. Mine was totally dislocated and I have never, ever, ever felt pain like that. It is unbearable and it did require the ER and meds to sedate to "pop" that sucker back into joint. It's pain that makes you want to die, really. I also required the surgery, as my labrum was torn. There is very little likelihood that Ellsbury had a full dislocation yesterday (unless the joint was already so loose that it popped all the way out and all the way back in very quickly - I'm not sure how often this happens and would guess we'd have known about it before because he would have had some issues before, I think). I would have heard his screams in Delaware, I think, and I believe they would have been prolonged, not just as the injury was happening. I also felt like him telling Youk that "something moved in there" was actually a good sign - that a subluxation was most likely, and not a full dislocation. My immediate hope after watching it was that the labrum didn't get too f'ed on the subluxation. Here's hoping 6 weeks is all he needs and we see him again in June. I don't think there's too many options between the 6-8 weeks and gone for the season. It'll depend on the labrum. Poor dude, he was having a good day and was probably starting to feel like he was getting over the early season hump.

[irinmike]

Just the latest in a string of bullshit occurrances for this team. Now we get to watch B grade outfielders game after game, as we had to endure as fans two years ago. The beat goes on for the DL Red Sox.

[Eric Van]

I argued all winter that the team needed a LHB corner OF / 1B type on the roster instead of McDonald, and once we knew that not just Kalish but Crawford were going to miss the start of the season that became even more important. And now we'll have several weeks of McDonald starting vs. RHP with his career .274 wOBA / 62 wRC+ vs. them.

Amplifying the myopia ... with their two best healthy OF prospects both RHB (Lin and Linares), they sign three AAAA guys to flesh out the PawSox roster, and two of them, including the best of the lot, are RHB as well (Jason Repko / Mauro Gomez vs. Josh Kroeger). So you have acceptable backups for Ross and McDonald coming out of body orifices and, unless I'm badly misjudging Kroeger or Daniel Nava, nothing that's even replacement level vs. RHP. No wonder why it suddenly occurred to them in ST that Lars should see some LF action.

[JMDurron]

Remember two years ago, when the Red Sox were looking at excellent OF depth in the minors, between Westmoreland, Kalish, and Reddick? Those were good times. It's obscene how medical issues (plus one trade) have completely annihilated this organization's OF talent.

Edited by JMDurron, 14 April 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[luckysox]

Reddick would be perfect here.