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OK we're back on our main server.  It was taking a super long time to move *everything* back just to save a day's worth of messages.  I've been at this all day now and need to get back to my real job so.,... sorry.  Working on a better plan in case this happens again.  nip

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Ellsbury hurt


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#1 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:29 PM

Talk about Ellsbury's inury here.

Any extended time missed would be pretty awful. A starting OF of Ross-McDonald-Sweeney?

Lin is the only other OF on the 40-man.

#2 AlNipper49


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:30 PM

Linsanity!

#3 86spike


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:31 PM

Linsanity!


I was seconds too slow.

So I'm not paying attention to the game. Someone explain what happened to JE, please.

#4 JMDurron

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:33 PM

So I'm not paying attention to the game. Someone explain what happened to JE, please.


Same here, any details from those who were watching would be greatly appreciated.

#5 Buzzkill Pauley

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:34 PM

Repko not in the PawSox lineup.

Looking like a McD-Ross-Sweeney OF for the time being, with Repko on the bench.

Get well soon, Carl!

#6 Lefty on the Mound


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:34 PM

Reid Brignac fell on Ellsbury's right shoulder when Jacoby took him out sliding at second. Ellsbury came out of the game holding his right arm as if it were broken (not saying it is).

#7 wutang112878

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:40 PM

A complete guess, but the way he was holding it in that arm folded over his stomach position when he walked off made me think it was dislocated. And the way the guy fell on him it sort of looked to me like the force of the fall could have knocked it out of joint.

#8 86spike


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:41 PM

I just hope the new medical team is sure to X-Ray the front and back of his shoulder.

#9 glennhoffmania


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:00 PM

For however long he's out, I see Bobby somehow getting Punto to be the regular leadoff guy.

#10 Plympton91


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:07 PM

2012 is already looking to be at least as ridiculous as the past two years with injuries to key players. Have the Red Sox considered holding any heathen rituals or an Exorcism?

Hopefully McDonald can play like he did with regular PT in 2010. How'd Lars look in LF the other night?

#11 Harry Hooper


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:10 PM

Maybe Crawford will have a miracle recovery in the next 48 hours once he knows a #1 or #2 lineup slot is up for grabs.

#12 86spike


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:15 PM

so how far away is Crawford?

#13 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:37 PM

From the game thread:

For those who didn't see it.


http://www.raysindex.../GIFs/af29.html



#14 MalzoneExpress


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:41 PM

so how far away is Crawford?


Far. He has a strained elbow.

Edited to add link.

Edited by MalzoneExpress, 13 April 2012 - 04:43 PM.


#15 SoxScout


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:45 PM

so how far away is Crawford?


He hit at Fenway today, is heading back to Fort Myers to DH for a handful of days, then presumably he will be on rehab the April 20s

also,


Jon Heyman
Word is, jacoby was feeling a bit better on way to hospital. Still no word on diagnosis yet tho.


Edited by SoxScout, 13 April 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#16 RedOctober3829


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:18 PM

The key to this injury is if the dislocation is bad enough that it requires surgery. My sister is an ATC and she said a typical rehab for a dislocation is 4 weeks, but it varies on severity. If it needs surgery, she says its months not weeks.
FWIW, she saw the play and thinks he dislocated the shoulder.

#17 Quintanariffic

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:38 PM

Jon Heyman
Word is, jacoby was feeling a bit better on way to hospital. Still no word on diagnosis yet tho


Ellsbury>Boras>Heyman

Try to make it a little more subtle there Jon.

#18 uncannymanny

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

Maybe Crawford will have a miracle recovery in the next 48 hours once he knows a #1 or #2 lineup slot is up for grabs.


Well played. This doesn't look good and I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often on dp breakup slides.

Anyone know if a dislocation of one of the R/L shoulders would be better than the other for a LHH? I'm guessing the right for a lefty is worse hitting-wise, but OTOH it isn't the throwing shoulder.

#19 BannedbyNYYFans.com

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:47 PM

Ellsbury>Boras>Heyman

Try to make it a little more subtle there Jon.


Haha. No shit. I was waiting for a follow up tweet by Heyman explaining how the injury shouldn't affect his arbitration increase next season.

#20 BannedbyNYYFans.com

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:53 PM

Well played. This doesn't look good and I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often on dp breakup slides.

Anyone know if a dislocation of one of the R/L shoulders would be better than the other for a LHH? I'm guessing the right for a lefty is worse hitting-wise, but OTOH it isn't the throwing shoulder.


Merloni was just on tv saying the right shoulder is dramatically worse for a lefty because it affects all aspects of the swing.

#21 SoxScout


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:08 PM

Reports Lin has been scratched from the Paw Sox lineup.

edit: Yep, Kroeger in CF

Edited by SoxScout, 13 April 2012 - 06:09 PM.


#22 DaveRoberts'Shoes


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:11 PM

I saw the replay - I think he subluxed his shoulder - not a full dislocation, but still not good. May be 4-6 weeks of rehab, but if he's having instability or doesn't "trust" the shoulder, he'll have surgery and be out around 5-6 months. Very similar to Kalish.

Shit.

#23 czar


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:13 PM

I saw the replay - I think he subluxed his shoulder - not a full dislocation, but still not good. May be 4-6 weeks of rehab, but if he's having instability or doesn't "trust" the shoulder, he'll have surgery and be out around 5-6 months. Very similar to Kalish.

Shit.


Dammit. I knew when I saw "last post by DRS" I shouldn't look in here. But I did anyway.

Lin a career 0.618 OPS at AAA. Better get used to a McDonald/Ross/Sweeney outfield for a while.

Edited by czar, 13 April 2012 - 06:14 PM.


#24 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:15 PM

I'm holding out hope that the fact that he's in such good shape will minimize the impact of the injury. When I tore my labrum, the fact that I was only in decent shape (if you want to be generous) when it happened, made it harder for me to heal since there wasn't as much muscle mass around the joint to help keep it stable. I'm hoping that the amount of lean muscle he has around his shoulder will help the joint stay stable while he rehabs and that it will speed along the process a bit.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 13 April 2012 - 06:16 PM.


#25 Jinhocho


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:40 PM

Damon the return was missed by a couple days...

#26 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:47 PM

I got a good laugh in section 25 with a loud "NOT THE RIBS" shout.

#27 zimmerolls

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:51 PM

Burn some sage in the clubhouse, time for a smudging ceremony (couple of years late ...but still)

#28 NomarRS05

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:25 PM

I hope Youkilis is OK with all of this.

#29 Harry Hooper


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:40 PM

Damon the return was missed by a couple days...


Cafardo is crying in his beer tonight about this.


Unfortunately it looks like we have all the elements in place for another Boras/Ellsbury vs. Red Sox battle. At a certain point in his healing process, Ellsbury's shoulder likely will be "good enough" to play but Boras & Co. will want to stay out for a virtual 100% recovery.

I'm going to hope for a return in 5 weeks.

#30 SoxScout


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:42 PM

Heyman is tweeting that Ells is sore, but nothing broken. Obviously, we still have to worry about the shit DRS was talking about.

#31 rembrat


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:48 PM

@nickcafardo
From what I'm hearing the Jacoby Ellsbury injury to his right shoulder doesn't sound good.


https://twitter.com/#!/nickcafardo/status/190964009544060928 mabrowndog is a dingus

#32 RedOctober3829


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:49 PM

https://twitter.com/#!/nickcafardo/status/190964009544060928 mabrowndog is a dingus

Good, so he'll be back tomorrow.

#33 Hendu's Gait


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:52 PM

https://twitter.com/#!/nickcafardo/status/190964009544060928 mabrowndog is a dingus


C'mon, his source was DRS' post.

#34 Rasputin


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:54 PM

So in a season where all we need is for the injuries to happen to the crappy players instead of the good players in order to win a bunch o games we've lost our closer for months and may be losing our coming-ogg-an-MVP-caliber-season center fielder.

It's like taking your car to the mechanic and having him tell you that buying a new car would be cheaper.

#35 NDame616


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:57 PM

http://fullcount.wee...y-very-very-bad

excuse format.....phone .... Alex Speier paints a bad picture

Edited by NDame616, 13 April 2012 - 07:58 PM.


#36 RedOctober3829


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:00 PM

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2012/04/13/worst-case-scenario-for-jacoby-ellsbury-very-very-bad

excuse format.....phone .... Alex Speier paints a bad picture


That was DRS saying what he said in here.

#37 DaveRoberts'Shoes


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:01 PM

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2012/04/13/worst-case-scenario-for-jacoby-ellsbury-very-very-bad

excuse format.....phone .... Alex Speier paints a bad picture


Well, yeah, but consider his source. Sounds like a douche...

#38 El Tiante

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:02 PM

Can the Sox ever catch a break? No pun intended.

#39 RedOctober3829


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:03 PM

Well, yeah, but consider his source. Sounds like a douche...


I thought he was a hand specialist

#40 absintheofmalaise


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

DRS, what are the "normal" recovery times for the various grade shoulder separations?

#41 yecul


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:27 PM

There video of the play?

#42 DaveRoberts'Shoes


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:27 PM

I thought he was a hand specialist


Damn. DAMN. That's cold.

#43 twoBshorty


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:29 PM

There video of the play?


It's in this MLB.com recap of the game: http://boston.redsox...ws_bos&c_id=bos

#44 DaveRoberts'Shoes


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:41 PM

DRS, what are the "normal recovery times for the various grade shoulder separations?


Well, first off, there is a very important distinction to be made between shoulder "dislocations" and "separations" - they are frequently used interchangeably but they are very different things. A "separation" is an AC joint separation - the small joint on top of the shoulder. Those are commonly are graded I to V, and frequently can be treated without surgery. The usual mechanism of injury is falling onto the side, or "point" of the shoulder. So, long story short, this is NOT what I think Ellsbury has, based on how he was injured.

I think Ellsbury subluxed, or "partially separated" his shoulder joint - I say that I think it was a subluxation because if it had gone all the way out, the on-field scene would have been MUCH uglier- full dislocations (specifically first-time ones) rarely go back in on their own and frequently require a trip to the ER to get sedation in order for it to be popped back in. If that is indeed what happened, I would expect a short period of rest followed by a lot of physical therapy and possibly a return in 6 to 8 weeks. When you dislocate or sublux your shoulder, however, you frequently tear your labrum, the ring of cartilage around the socket. This can result in sensations of instability or ("not trusting" the shoulder) or frank instability (the shoulder actually dislocates recurrently) and that can cause the person to need surgery to fix the labrum- the rehab for that in my patients (and most people's) is 4 to 6 weeks in a sling, no lifting more than a couple pounds for about three months, and no contact or risky sports for five to six months. They may be able to rehab him to the point where he can tolerate it for the season and then get it fixed in the off-season - that's what the Heat did with Dwayne Wade back in 2006 or '07.

Meh.

#45 maufman


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:44 PM

Well, first off, there is a very important distinction to be made between shoulder "dislocations" and "separations" - they are frequently used interchangeably but they are very different things. A "separation" is an AC joint separation - the small joint on top of the shoulder. Those are commonly are graded I to V, and frequently can be treated without surgery. The usual mechanism of injury is falling onto the side, or "point" of the shoulder. So, long story short, this is NOT what I think Ellsbury has, based on how he was injured.

I think Ellsbury subluxed, or "partially separated" his shoulder joint - I say that I think it was a subluxation because if it had gone all the way out, the on-field scene would have been MUCH uglier- full dislocations (specifically first-time ones) rarely go back in on their own and frequently require a trip to the ER to get sedation in order for it to be popped back in. If that is indeed what happened, I would expect a short period of rest followed by a lot of physical therapy and possibly a return in 6 to 8 weeks. When you dislocate or sublux your shoulder, however, you frequently tear your labrum, the ring of cartilage around the socket. This can result in sensations of instability or ("not trusting" the shoulder) or frank instability (the shoulder actually dislocates recurrently) and that can cause the person to need surgery to fix the labrum- the rehab for that in my patients (and most people's) is 4 to 6 weeks in a sling, no lifting more than a couple pounds for about three months, and no contact or risky sports for five to six months. They may be able to rehab him to the point where he can tolerate it for the season and then get it fixed in the off-season - that's what the Heat did with Dwayne Wade back in 2006 or '07.

Meh.


Ellsbury's a FA after 2013. If he needs surgery eventually, there's no way Boras lets him put it off until the fall.

#46 Snodgrass'Muff


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:47 PM

There video of the play?


In addition to twoB's link, there's a gif linked in post 13 with a good look at the collision from the third base side.

Edited by Snodgrass'Muff, 13 April 2012 - 08:48 PM.


#47 absintheofmalaise


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:55 PM

Thanks DRS.

#48 mr_smith02

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:00 PM

Since this past September I have been trying like crazy to remember all the things I was willing to have happen if the baseball gods let the Sox win the ALCS and WS in 2004. I am certain I said I was willing to die one year earlier than the fates had planned. Looking back at this past September, the glorious off-season, the first week of this season, the Tito drama, Punto, and now the injuries...this may all be my fault. Either that or it is Lackey's fault!

#49 BannedbyNYYFans.com

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:02 PM

Posted Image

Link to complete article:
http://www.weei.com/...d-be-dislocated

He cites an "industry source with knowledge of the situation"...I don't know if he's referring to that doctor he mentioned earlier or someone inside the Sox. Or he just read DRS post above.


According to an industry source with knowledge of the situation, Red Sox center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury likely suffered a dislocation or subluxation of his right shoulde

Ellsbury's condition was announced by the Sox as a right shoulder injury, with Ellsbury being sent to Mass General for further testing. While the results of those tests have not yet been announced, the source confirmed that Ellsbury likely suffered a dislocation or subluxation in which the shoulder slipped out of the joint. With such a diagnosis, Ellsbury would be expected to be sidelined for six to eight weeks to see if the injury responds to rest and rehabilitation. If not, then season-ending surgery would be a possibility.


Edited by BannedbyNYYFans.com, 13 April 2012 - 09:10 PM.


#50 SoxScout


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Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:03 PM

Here is the MLB video: http://mlb.mlb.com/v...py_20578307&v=3

I wonder if the OF really starts to suck if Linares will be given a shot.

Edited by SoxScout, 13 April 2012 - 09:07 PM.





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