443 replies to this topic

[biollante]

My vitriol is not connected to last year. It is connected to the perpetual selling of the brand that goes too far. I am ready to move on from the "streak" but I am not so sure about the ownership's ability to do so.

 

If they keep retiring numbers, everyone will have 3 digits on their back. I can't see retiring any more numbers right now but I am sure they will retire some because that is the way it goes now.   Soon they will be building monuments in the triangle in center field.

 

Of course, my rambling comments are always tempered by a good year.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

If they keep retiring numbers, everyone will have 3 digits on their back. I can't see retiring any more numbers right now but I am sure they will retire some because that is the way it goes now.   Soon they will be building monuments in the triangle in center field.

 
Has this ownership really gone overboard with retiring numbers?  They've retired just two numbers in the 11 seasons they've been in place (the previous ownership retired five numbers plus 42 in an 18 year period).  The first was Pesky, which was a very special case that universally is viewed as well deserved and arguably it was best to get it taken care of while he was still in relatively good health.  Rice was most recent and he fit all of the original number retirement criteria (Hall of Fame, 10+ years with Sox, finished career with Sox).  It's very likely he was going up on the facade regardless of who owned the team. 
 
While there's plenty of marketing and PR ploys that the ownership could be criticized for, I don't see how there should be any concern over this ownership going wild with retiring numbers.  Almost all speculation of what numbers should/could/will go up on the right field roof is coming from outside the walls of 4 Yawkey Way.  It's only a topic of conversation at all because Boggs is all but begging for them to retire his number.  I haven't seen or heard any kind of response out of the front office on that issue one way or the other.

Edited by Red(s)HawksFan, 11 April 2013 - 02:32 PM.

[PedroKsBambino]

My vitriol is not connected to last year. It is connected to the perpetual selling of the brand that goes too far. I am ready to move on from the "streak" but I am not so sure about the ownership's ability to do so.

 

If they keep retiring numbers, everyone will have 3 digits on their back. I can't see retiring any more numbers right now but I am sure they will retire some because that is the way it goes now.   Soon they will be building monuments in the triangle in center field.

 

Of course, my rambling comments are always tempered by a good year.

 

Your final comment suggests the vitriol actually is related to last year's on-field product, doesn't it?  And from reading this thread along the way I'm confident that is true of most all here to a greater or lesser degree, at least.  We care a lot, that is why we are all here, and when things go wrong sometimes we get focused on things that may or may not be real or material to the success on the field.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

28,926 at the park last night. Now that the streak is over, it will be interesting to see how much the official attendance numbers fall off in the tough-to-sell mid-week April and May games.

[mabrowndog]

On the NESN pregame last night, Tom Caron noted the earlier start times this week (6:35 games on Mon, Tues & Thurs; a 4:05 getaway game for the A's on Wed) and acknowledged that this was done to attract more families on school nights. Last week's games (save Patriots Day) were the typical 7:05 starts since it was school vacation week.

 

However, this week's games are the only such dates for these early start times. All the rest of their "school night" home games through June, except a rescheduled game with TB at 1:05 pm on 6/18 and a Rockies getaway game at 4:05 pm on 6/26 (by which time many schools will already be out for the year), will start at 7:05 pm or later. I'm wondering if the opposing teams' TV arrangements play into this, because I would think the Sox might have wanted all their Mon-Thurs games from May through mid-June starting earlier to entice more families.

[wutang112878]

Its pretty clear they are hurting.  Is it time to ask the question if payroll will be affected next year if this continues all season?

[MakMan44]

Its pretty clear they are hurting.  Is it time to ask the question if payroll will be affected next year if this continues all season?

I doubt it. Lowering the payroll would end up hurting the team and hurting the team makes it less likely they're going to win. If they don't win attendance will keep slipping. 

 

You have to spend money to make money. 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Winning solves everything. They sucked last year and fans were fed up with the ongoing farce. So, they're staying away. This year's team appears far more likable, so if they continue to play well the fans will come back.

[The Allented Mr Ripley]

That's why I have to laugh at how in the last few years HWL had marketing teams assembled with an eye toward input for attractive roster construction, when all they needed to be concerned about was winning.

 

Hell, the only explanation for hiring Bobby Valentine was for the buzz HWL felt it would create, but it had the opposite effect because he sucks and the team was shitty.

 

All of this in pursuit of attendance figures higher than the 100% they were already getting.

 

Win and the fans will show up. To think otherwise is stupid, stupid, stupid.

Edited by The Allented Mr Ripley, 23 April 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[caminante11]

Using attendance numbers from baseballreference, it looks like they are down 12% from the first 10 home games of last season.  They averaged 37,578 then and so far are averaging 33,009.  The first 10 home games did include 2 with the Yankees last season.

[Lose Remerswaal]

That differential will drop when the weather gets better, assuming the team continues to play above .500 ball.

 

Unless Neil Diamond continues to show up, in which case they will drop precipitously

[mabrowndog]

Using attendance numbers from baseballreference, it looks like they are down 12% from the first 10 home games of last season.  They averaged 37,578 then and so far are averaging 33,009.  The first 10 home games did include 2 with the Yankees last season.

 

And if you pull Opening Day and Patriots Day, considering both are pretty much guaranteed sellouts even in the shittiest of years, the difference is a little more stark for the remaining 8 games:

 

2012 - 301,437 total ... 37,679 per game

2013 - 255,634 total ... 31,954 per game

DIFF -  45,803 total ... 5,725 per game (-15.2%)

 

But I won't weep for them. They're still pretty much swimming in cash with the 9th-best YTD average home attendance in baseball despite having by far the lowest seating capacity. Imagine being responsible for growing April ticket sales in Cleveland, where they drew 32,361 TOTAL for the 3-game series with the Sox. Their 2013 average over the first 8 home games is 15,195 -- and that's actually an increase of 193 over last year.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Not close to 10,000 folks in the stands at game time tonight

[Average Reds]

Not close to 10,000 folks in the stands at game time tonight

 

Not much more than that in the 2nd inning. 

 

Granted, it's a miserable night out. But it's been a very long time since I've seen Fenway this empty.

Edited by Average Reds, 23 April 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[Fratboy]

There have been some fairly miserable nights at Fenway, weatherwise, and this is one of them.

[richgedman'sghost]

Just announced on NESN...that anybody who has a ticket to tonight's game can attend tomorrow or Thursday's game for free. Nice gesture, but another example of how desperate management must be. On another point, maybe somebody could compare the weather for the first home games of this year versus last year.

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

Just got this e-mail from the Sox - nice gesture, I suppose - 

 

 

To all of you who patiently endured the game on Tuesday, April 23, we have a special gift for you.

We invite you to join us at Fenway Park - as our guest - on either Wednesday, April 24 at 4:05 pm or on Thursday, April 25 at 6:35 pm, when skies are expected to be clear. 

To attend either game, bring your ticket stub from 4/23 to Gate E starting two hours prior to the game on Wednesday (4/24) or Thursday (4/25), where it can be exchanged for a ticket to that night's game, subject to availability. 

We appreciate your hearty dedication; we thank you for your loyalty, and we hope you can join us tomorrow afternoon or Thursday evening. 

Boston Red Sox Ticket Services

 

Oh my.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Not sure it's "desperation" as much as "doing something nice for folks who had tix for a game in shitty weather and this time, for the first time in 10 years, we can actually do this for people".  Other teams have done this for years.

[Trautwein's Degree]

Not sure it's "desperation" as much as "doing something nice for folks who had tix for a game in shitty weather and this time, for the first time in 10 years, we can actually do this for people".  Other teams have done this for years.

It's smart business. The Sox were dealt a tough hand this April. Lots of night home games coming off a terrible season. No one longs for raw April nights at Fenway Park. Twenty Seven years ago this week, Roger Clemens struck out 20 Mariners......in front of a crowd of 13,414. 

 

Sometimes this ownership can't win. They do the right thing from a customer service and business standpoint and they're seen as desperate. They don't do this and they're seen as miserly.  

[Alex18]

Did they give an attendance number last night?

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Did they give an attendance number last night?

 

29,006 (per b-r.com boxscore)

 

Clearly a lot of no-shows, which is probably why they're offering the 2-for-1 deal.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Kind of amazing that despite their relative struggles, playing to 88% of capacity ranks behind only SF (94%) and St Louis (95%).

 

Yankees are at 76% (down from 87% last year). 11 teams have an average home attendance of less than 60% capacity; with Cleveland, Seattle, and CWS below 50%.

[maufman]

Kind of amazing that despite their relative struggles, playing to 88% of capacity ranks behind only SF (94%) and St Louis (95%).

 

Yankees are at 76% (down from 87% last year). 11 teams have an average home attendance of less than 60% capacity; with Cleveland, Seattle, and CWS below 50%.

 

Also, the Sox aren't the only club that has ever announced dubious attendance numbers. There appeared to be a few thousand empty seats at the Giants' game I attended two weeks ago, even though it was announced as a sellout.

 

Pretty rough to see the White Sox below 50% capacity, despite a winning season last year.

[canderson]

Philly last night had its smallest crowd in years. I went to the Pirates-Phillies game Monday and there were probably 30 percent Pirates! fans there.

 

Monday's announced crowd wasn't bad but there were entire sections empty in the lower bowl. Fenway might be less full than in years, but a lot of teams are seeing the same thing this season.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Yankees are at 76% (down from 87% last year).

Isn't this the equivalent of looking at batting averages in April and conclude that offense will be down for the season?  Its cold (particularly this year) and damp.  Its not the time of year people are thinking of going to ball games, particularly on school nights.  I'm not saying the Yanks are going to make up the whole difference, but I'd be surprised if the number stays that low.

 

That said, I was surprised that I was able to purchase Green Monster seats at face value from the Sox website for a game in early May a few weeks ago.  I had assumed these were basically not available unless you paid through the nose on StubHub.  Have I been missing something for a while or is this a 2013 phenomenon? 

[mabrowndog]

Pete Abraham @PeteAbe

#RedSox ended up giving away 6,200 tix the last two nights to people who had ducats for the rain game on Tuesday

[teddywingman]

That's a chunk of tickets.

[underhandtofirst]

That's a chunk of tickets.

Probably sold a lot more concessions than they would have to empty seats too.  They got people in to see the top 2 Sox starters AND and 2 wins.  I bet there are a few people that might go to another game down the road they otherwise may not have.  The team is trying to build back the good feeling people got going to the park and this will help.  In this case they were up front about giving tickets away.  Last season they were just part of the "sellout".

[pokey_reese]

I love this move, quite frankly.  It's a nice gesture from the organization.  Good for the fans, good for the ownership, and good for the players, too.  No one loses here.

[Stu Nahan]

I love this move, quite frankly.  It's a nice gesture from the organization.  Good for the fans, good for the ownership, and good for the players, too.  No one loses here.

 

Exactly. Also, as others have said, winning will drive the sale of tickets. If the team is still playing well as the weather warms up, Fenway will be full on a nightly basis.

[Seven Costanza]

Probably sold a lot more concessions than they would have to empty seats too.  They got people in to see the top 2 Sox starters AND and 2 wins.  I bet there are a few people that might go to another game down the road they otherwise may not have.  The team is trying to build back the good feeling people got going to the park and this will help.  In this case they were up front about giving tickets away.  Last season they were just part of the "sellout".

 

Concession lines were PACKED at the park yesterday.  2 for 1 dogs and the 5 buck beers seem to be a big hit.

[mt8thsw9th]

Pete Abraham @PeteAbe

#RedSox ended up giving away 6,200 tix the last two nights to people who had ducats for the rain game on Tuesday

 

The tickets are now gold coins?

[Clears Cleaver]

Got a call today from the Sox. My time on the season tix waiting list is up. They have several tix available and I'd have to get 64 games this year. Most of the tix available are field box or better.

Btw, I got on the wait list in 2005

[tonyandpals]

Probably sold a lot more concessions than they would have to empty seats too.  They got people in to see the top 2 Sox starters AND and 2 wins.  I bet there are a few people that might go to another game down the road they otherwise may not have.  The team is trying to build back the good feeling people got going to the park and this will help.  In this case they were up front about giving tickets away.  Last season they were just part of the "sellout".

 

Last year I was told by someone in the front office that a warm body in the building is worth $20 in concessions.  There's a nice chunk of change (120k) that wouldn't have been there otherwise.  I'd be willing to bet a patron who gets in for free is apt to spend more on concessions than the person who paid for their ticket.  Probably not more than the ticket would have cost them though...

 

All in all, a smart play by the Sox.  They'll be banged out again by the end of May.  Ticket demand is already rising on the T&P market...

[tonyandpals]

Got a call today from the Sox. My time on the season tix waiting list is up. They have several tix available and I'd have to get 64 games this year. Most of the tix available are field box or better.

Btw, I got on the wait list in 2005

 

Are you buying in?

 

I spoke with a 10 game holder in RF Box 87 who put in a request for an upgrade this year. He got a message from the Sox before the season to talk about upgrade options.  The moved them up one row. Same section...  Seems like full season packages is the only way to get close to between the bases.

[SumnerH]

mt8thsw9th, on 26 Apr 2013 - 15:00, said:
The tickets are now gold coins?

"Ducks being ducats being tickets to a big sports event. If you don't have them, the scalper does—for a price." hey, I got the Ducks, Roy Blount Jr, Sports Illustrated, Feb 5, 1979.

[Clears Cleaver]

 
Are you buying in?
 
I spoke with a 10 game holder in RF Box 87 who put in a request for an upgrade this year. He got a message from the Sox before the season to talk about upgrade options.  The moved them up one row. Same section...  Seems like full season packages is the only way to get close to between the bases.

Meeting with sox this afternoon and looking at the available seats. Have to given all the obstructed views.

[tonyandpals]

Meeting with sox this afternoon and looking at the available seats. Have to given all the obstructed views.

Just watch out for aisle traffic. Especially if you're meeting them with nobody in the park.  I don't just mean the aisle in front of you.  there could be an aisle that runs up the stairs that you need to look across.  I missed that fact my first year and had people walking by me all game.

[Clears Cleaver]

Just watch out for aisle traffic. Especially if you're meeting them with nobody in the park.  I don't just mean the aisle in front of you.  there could be an aisle that runs up the stairs that you need to look across.  I missed that fact my first year and had people walking by me all game.

 

great advice, thanks. we ended up seeing five or six different options of four seats together. the GS seats all had one obstructed view or were piggyback in the middle of two rows. final decision came down to RF box 93 and loge box 101. We went loge box. first game is May 6. Was told today that all the GS tix they showed us were taken

 

so, if anyone is looking for good tix at face value, don't be afraid to ask

Edited by Clears Cleaver, 29 April 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[Lose Remerswaal]

What row did you get?

 

We sat in AA, Loge 140 on Sunday, and the foot traffic was annoying but not dreadful. Not like the old days before they lowered the aisle.

 

Of course it helped that the usher (Gene, the guy who looks like he's almost 100 years old) was on his game, keeping folks moving along.

[Clears Cleaver]

We got row RR, the last row in the section. Aisle seats, but behind us so not a problem. Sucks that they are last row (GS seats behind is are $50 apiece vs our $95 apiece), but we are second row under the overhang, a necessity.

[sittingstill]

Disappointed to discover yesterday that they have changed gates-opening for all games to be 90 minutes before first pitch. (Most recently it was 90 minutes M-Th and 120 minutes F/Sa/Su.) Also disappointed that when I asked staff about it, I was told "It's to bring Fenway in line with other parks in the league." So, Fenway's "America's Most Beloved Ballpark," but not so special that they should do anything different. Check. (I've only re-checked the AL East, but the Yankees open 120 minutes before first pitch, the Rays do the weekday/weekend split the Sox had last year, and the Orioles at least open Eutaw Street to see some BP 2 hours ahead before opening the whole seating area at 90 minutes. But we're in line with Toronto!)

 

Don't get me wrong--I understand the cost savings of opening later, especially when attendance is down. And I realize that not everyone likes to spend that extra time walking around Fenway drinking $9 beers the way I do. Maybe it's an unavoidable consequence of the trend a lot of us noticed last year that the crowd was arriving well after first pitch. But I think that a lot of infrequent Fenway attendees are hoping to see some Sox BP (which will be long over by the time gates open) or snag an autograph (and one of the most reliable times for that used to be Sundays after the pitchers did long-toss; there's a good chance they're done 90 minutes before first pitch).

[geoflin]

Fenway is open 2 1/2 hours before game time for season ticket holders at Gate C only. In my experience, other than opening day they haven't been checking as to whether you actually have season tickets - you just present your ticket and in you go. You are then confined to the monster seats or the bleachers until the rest of the park opens to everyone.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Friday night looked like a full house to me, there were even folks in standing room and the Bud Deck was full.  Announced crowd of 33K.  Thursday night looked like 20K, announced crowd of 31K, IIRC.  Of course it was raining all day on Thursday, so I'm sure there were lots of no shows.