411 replies to this topic

[Zososoxfan]

I think that in this context it's more of an issue with Shanahan's dartboard of justice. I think Backstrom should have been suspended and 1 game is perfect (I also would've accepted a fine instead). But when compared to Neal's 1 game suspension, Backstrom's play looks almost trivial. That those 2 plays warrant the same of amount of time is pretty damn awful.

This needs to be a thread title in the future, a member name, or something. Fantastic.

Just to add my .02, there are a few things said in this I absolutely agree with: 1) the Weber and Neal results are bad; 2) injury should only be used to add length/severity to suspension and shouldn't figure into the calculus of whether to suspend or not; 3) intent is incredibly hard to judge sometimes; and 4) just because Shanny screwed up the handling of some of these incidents, doesn't mean he should back track on later ones (i.e. Backstrom probably deserves a 1-game suspension).

In other words...

[AimingForYoko]

But as others have pointed out this is really a problem with the Neal suspension. Just because they screw up one ruling does that mean they should screw up every one after that?

hey, I agree with you. I think a game (or a fine) will suffice nicely. I'm just saying that that's the biggest issue with people who don't agree with ruling. I believe it was KPD who tweeted that Shanny has bigger fish to fry, and I agree with that as well.

If none of these other plays had happened, I'm sure that we would all be debating whether or not Backstrom intended to injure (I personally think he was just pissed and frustrated) but we all could all live with ruling.

The problem is that Shanahan has painted himself into a corner and made himself look like an idiot.

[PedroSpecialK]

Ugh

Michael Giardi‏ @MikeGiardi
No line changes appear forthcoming for the #Bruins. Krejci remains between Seguin and Marchand, Bergy between Pevs and Locch.

[ForceAtHome]

I think Backstrom saw Ovechkin get spilled, and went to shove Pevs, and got his stick up too high.

That's what I think, too. If you really think Backstrom had an intent to go in there to ruin Peverley, I can't change your mind, but that's hard for me to believe. Whether it's a suspension or not is for the league to decide. Surprisingly, given the precedent set in the playoffs, it was deemed to be worth a game. This is unfortunate for the Caps but they'll live. They're a good hockey team without Backstrom and a better team with Backstrom, but they played without him for 40 games this year.

who had just had a collision with Ovechkin who ran him from 20 feet

Seriously?!? Watch the clip again. In particular, watch the Shanahan susension video. You can see from 0:11 to 0:18 that Ovechkin doesn't even take a stride from the blueline to contacting Peverley! Are he RAN him from 20 feet? You've got to be kidding me. Does Ovechkin sometime take runs at players? Yes, but you'll know it when you see it. This wasn't remotely close. At worst, it was matching tripping minors for Ovechkin and Peverley.

[AimingForYoko]

Ugh

boo.

[pedro1918]

From the Caps website:

Statement from the Washington Capitals on the Suspension of Backstrom

Wednesday, 04.18.2012 / 1:23 PM
Washington Capitals

ARLINGTON, Va. – We disagree with the NHL’s decision to suspend Nicklas Backstrom. This has been a competitive and physical series, and we do not understand why a suspension was imposed in this case while other incidents in this series have not been reviewed. Our singular focus now is on Game 4, and we look forward to the energy that our great fans provide.

Edited by pedro1918, 18 April 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[ForceAtHome]

Caps lines this morning:

Ovechkin-Laich-Johansson
Chimera-Perreault-Semin
Hendricks-Beagle-Brouwer
Knuble-Aucoin-Ward

Perreault replaces Backstrom, Aucoin replaces Perreault, and Knuble fills Aucoin's spot. Johansson and Chimera swap lines, too.

Alzner-Carlson
Hamrlik-Green
Erskine-Wideman / Schultz-Orlov

Tough to know on the last two pairs which is actually the third. Either Schultz or Wideman could be sitting, with Erskine replacing the former and Orlov replacing the latter.

Holtby
Neuvirth/Sabourin

Holtby will remain the starter but Neuvirth is fully practicing for the first time since his injury.

[Saints Rest]

Ugh

I agree, ugh. At thsi point, I would like to see Looch, Krejci and Segui, with Marchand, Bergeron, Peverley. Creates a very strong defensive line in the latter grouping, and a very strong (not that they have shown it yet) offensive trio in the former.

[The Four Peters]

Seriously?!? Watch the clip again. In particular, watch the Shanahan susension video. You can see from 0:11 to 0:18 that Ovechkin doesn't even take a stride from the blueline to contacting Peverley! Are he RAN him from 20 feet? You've got to be kidding me. Does Ovechkin sometime take runs at players? Yes, but you'll know it when you see it. This wasn't remotely close. At worst, it was matching tripping minors for Ovechkin and Peverley.

I completely agree there was nothing wrong with the hit itself (other than the fact it was kind of unnecessary), but then after he sticks Peverley in the nuts. However, Peverley turns around and slashes Ovechkin, so in my mind they're even after that...no harm, no foul. For Backstrom to come in after the buzzer and crosscheck Peverley in the face (as the aggressor), it's definitely deserving of SD. If there was no match penalty called, then I think just a fine would have been appropriate. But I don't think the call on the ice should be rescinded because it was a reckless hit after the game was over. I am ok with the 1 game suspension, but wouldn't have raised a fit if there had just been a fine as well.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with everyone that it's asinine for this to equal or exceed the punishments handed out to Neal, Weber, Adams, etc. That's the part that's an absolute joke, not this decision. It's amazing that he actually gets one (relatively) correct and it's still a big deal.

[Dummy Hoy]

That's what I think, too. If you really think Backstrom had an intent to go in there to ruin Peverley, I can't change your mind, but that's hard for me to believe. Whether it's a suspension or not is for the league to decide. Surprisingly, given the precedent set in the playoffs, it was deemed to be worth a game. This is unfortunate for the Caps but they'll live. They're a good hockey team without Backstrom and a better team with Backstrom, but they played without him for 40 games this year.



Seriously?!? Watch the clip again. In particular, watch the Shanahan susension video. You can see from 0:11 to 0:18 that Ovechkin doesn't even take a stride from the blueline to contacting Peverley! Are he RAN him from 20 feet? You've got to be kidding me. Does Ovechkin sometime take runs at players? Yes, but you'll know it when you see it. This wasn't remotely close. At worst, it was matching tripping minors for Ovechkin and Peverley.

My fault...I was confusing that incident with a different one. Clearly could have been matching minors but nothing more. Of course then Backstrom decided to get involved.

[Myt1]

I'm frankly stunned by the comments here. Clearly Backstrom's punishment when compared with the others is probably too severe, but Smas makes the correct point which is that the problem is the decision on the other calls, not this one. Backstrom deserved a game suspension for his actions, no doubt in my mind.

At the end of a game that his team had lost, Backstrom, annoyed, frustrated, and probably frightened from all of the shots he had taken from the Bruins, skated over to Rich Peverly (who had just had a collision with Ovechkin who ran him from 20 feet)and when Peverly turned towards him crosschecked him in the face. Now, if you want to argue that it was self defense, and that Peverly raised his stick first, I want to know 1. Why Backstrom was the one approaching Peverly, and 2. Why when a player (a rather non threatening one mind you) raises his stick in front of his face it warrants an aggressive cross check to the head?

Backstrom did something stupid and dangerous and deserves his punishment. Isn't this the shit we want out of the game?

I completely agree there was nothing wrong with the hit itself (other than the fact it was kind of unnecessary), but then after he sticks Peverley in the nuts. However, Peverley turns around and slashes Ovechkin, so in my mind they're even after that...no harm, no foul. For Backstrom to come in after the buzzer and crosscheck Peverley in the face (as the aggressor), it's definitely deserving of SD. If there was no match penalty called, then I think just a fine would have been appropriate. But I don't think the call on the ice should be rescinded because it was a reckless hit after the game was over. I am ok with the 1 game suspension, but wouldn't have raised a fit if there had just been a fine as well.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with everyone that it's asinine for this to equal or exceed the punishments handed out to Neal, Weber, Adams, etc. That's the part that's an absolute joke, not this decision. It's amazing that he actually gets one (relatively) correct and it's still a big deal.

Agreed.

Edited by Myt1, 18 April 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[Myt1]

I think that in this context it's more of an issue with Shanahan's dartboard of justice.

Bust a deal, face the wheel.

[ForceAtHome]

Indications point towards Erskine jumping into the mix for Schultz. I wouldn't be shocked to see him scrap with Lucic (or Thornton?) tonight.

Alzner-Carlson
Hamrlik-Green
Erskine-Wideman

Edited by ForceAtHome, 19 April 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[TheRealness]

Indications point towards Erskine jumping into the mix for Schultz. I wouldn't be shocked to see him scrap with Lucic (or Thornton?) tonight.

Alzner-Carlson
Hamrlik-Green
Erskine-Wideman

As a Caps fan, aren't you worried Hunter is playing into the Bruins strength with this? When pissed off, the Bruins are a much better team.

[TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle]

If they aren't too busy taking dumb retaliatory penalties.

[cshea]

Shades of the Habs "Let's put Laraque on the first line to shadow Lucic!" idea.

Looch did his job. He won't go with Erskine unless it is out of hand on the scoreboard.

[PedroSpecialK]

It would be monumentally stupid of Lucic to drop them with Erskine. Here's hoping it's Thornton.

[Haunted]

The Caps defense is worse for this move, right? I mean, Schultz isn't exactly a world beater but Erskine kind of stinks, doesn't he?

[PedroSpecialK]

From what I've seen, Schultz is just awful. Immobile, has long reach but has no idea how to use it, isn't physical... IMO he's only in the league because of his +50 a couple years back playing with Green during Green's point-per-game season. Erskine is at least physical, so he could be an upgrade.

[cshea]

In my limited viewing of the Caps during the regular season, I thought Orlov was better than both of them.

[Dewy4PrezII]

In my limited viewing of the Caps during the regular season, I thought Orlov was better than both of them.

IMO Orlov is better than both of them but he is less physical than Erskine...not many big guys in hockey are less physical than Schultz so i really don't know what the deal is there.

[ForceAtHome]

From what I've seen, Schultz is just awful. Immobile, has long reach but has no idea how to use it, isn't physical... IMO he's only in the league because of his +50 a couple years back playing with Green during Green's point-per-game season. Erskine is at least physical, so he could be an upgrade.

This is pretty accurate in my opinion. Schultz has flashes and spurts when he proves valuable. His reach and length sometimes prove valuable on the PK in clogging lanes, but just as often as that happens, his lack of ability to play physical and skate burn him. With the entire team buying into the shot blocking/collapsing scheme, Schultz quickly becomes less valuable. He's also the king of the skating out of the zone and passing it backwards to his d partner maneuver. It worked out okay when Mike Green was a stud, but it's less rewarding now. Schultz is a fine 5th-8th defenseman depending on what team you are.

Erskine is a question mark. Obviously he brings the physicality. In some ways this may be playing into Boston's hands, but that physical game is more than just fighting. He's willing to clear the crease, protect his players, etc. Clearing the crease and slot might be a real point of emphasis because we've seen that Holtby can be pretty damn effective when he gets a clean view of the puck. He had his knee scoped and hasn't played since then, but said he feels healthy. If it's the case, he could be okay.

Orlov is by far the most talented of the bunch. He's also the least responsible. He makes irresponsible passes and jumps up into the play leaving him/the defense in a vulnerable position. He's also right now pretty good at firing rockets that never hit the net. He likes to hit and had a few highlight reel hip checks this year. Once he can learn to hit the net with some consistency with that boomer of his and mature as a defender/decision maker, he should be a fine player. Right now, in a series that is so tightly contested, I agree with Hunter's decision to keep him out. Depending on who the Caps face in round two, if it comes to that, I could see Orlov becoming a more viable option.

Edited by ForceAtHome, 19 April 2012 - 02:43 PM.

[Blacken]

I think the best Orlov comp for SoSH is Johnny Boychuk circa 2010.

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Soooo....I really, really, really want the first two lines to start scoring...Peverley is awesome, but he shouldn't be the best offensive player on the ice for the B's all series.

Something is going to have to give one way or another...

[steveluck7]

Is it possible that Clode has the forwards scared sh**less to get in too deep to avoid odd man rushes coming back the other way? And could that be one of the factors in them not getting bodies in front? Just searching for answers as it seems the team has played very uninspired offensively for most of the series

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I dunno. The Bruins are still getting deep. They're fighting in Gretzky's office and in the corners. The two problems I pointed out after the first two games still seem to be an issue.

1.) Not enough bodies in front. The Bruins have done better at planting a man in front, but when shots start bouncing towards Holtby, there isn't a lot of help. On the two rebounds goals in game three, there were at least two Bruins pounding away in front. Guys need to crash from the slot or from the corners and help out. At least, that's what I think.

2.) The first two lines continue to whip the puck through the slot without any intended target. Marchand and Seguin in particular have been doing it consistently. There's taking a chance and then there's being careless. And, against a team like the Capitals who are trying to build their defense like the Bruins (force teams outside, take away the slot), those passes just aren't going to cut it. The best scoring opportunities the Bruins have gotten all series is when they work the boards and the points. They're not being patient, and it's costing them.

[TheShynessClinic]

Lucic has to play smarter. If he gains entry into the offensive zone one more time, only to make a pass directly to a Capitals defencemen, he should spend game 6 in the press box. He has been a better player for the Caps than he has the Bruins all series.

Edited by TheShynessClinic, 20 April 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[Toe Nash]

Lucic has to play smarter. If he gains entry into the offensive zone one more time, only to make a pass directly to a Capitals defencemen, he should spend game 6 in the press box. He has been a better player for the Caps than he has the Bruins all series.

I thought Lucic had his best game in the series thus far. He made a few turnovers but also made some things happen. They probably should have scored on the one rush he had but Peverly couldn't beat his d-man to the inside to clean up the rebound.

[steveluck7]

I dunno. The Bruins are still getting deep. They're fighting in Gretzky's office and in the corners. The two problems I pointed out after the first two games still seem to be an issue.

1.) Not enough bodies in front. The Bruins have done better at planting a man in front, but when shots start bouncing towards Holtby, there isn't a lot of help. On the two rebounds goals in game three, there were at least two Bruins pounding away in front. Guys need to crash from the slot or from the corners and help out. At least, that's what I think.

2.) The first two lines continue to whip the puck through the slot without any intended target. Marchand and Seguin in particular have been doing it consistently. There's taking a chance and then there's being careless. And, against a team like the Capitals who are trying to build their defense like the Bruins (force teams outside, take away the slot), those passes just aren't going to cut it. The best scoring opportunities the Bruins have gotten all series is when they work the boards and the points. They're not being patient, and it's costing them.

The more I think about it, I should differentiate between getting deep and being in front. They love to get deep, behind the net and in the corners. Systematically, Clode preaches that as it is the first stage of defense since it sets up the forecheck. Getting and staying in front of the net is a purely offensive duty and they seem reluctant. (reluctant is really the only word i can think of since they just aren't there)

The passes are absolutely a problem as well.They need to find a way to effectively move the puck to get quality shots on Holtby. Grabbing an early lead (or maybe not falling behind after 82 seconds) will help as well. Playing from behind is never easy but now that the Caps decide to pack it in on D, grabbing the early lead is crucial

[Zososoxfan]

Soooo....I really, really, really want the first two lines to start scoring...Peverley is awesome, but he shouldn't be the best offensive player on the ice for the B's all series.

Something is going to have to give one way or another...

I feel like Kelly should be considered to move to one of the top 2 lines, just to shake something up, but not too drastic. As for who would go down to skate with Rolston and Pouliot, I have no idea. Take turns with Bergy and Krejci? This is more about getting better play from the wings.

[Dalton Jones]

I thought Lucic had his best game in the series thus far. He made a few turnovers but also made some things happen. They probably should have scored on the one rush he had but Peverly couldn't beat his d-man to the inside to clean up the rebound.

Lucic has been a one trick pony all series. Rush it up the left wing, shoot into the goalie's pads or make a lazy pass to be picked off by the defense. I'd like to see him in the goalie's lap all game long, tipping picks and creating havoc.

[MiracleOfO2704]

I feel like Kelly should be considered to move to one of the top 2 lines, just to shake something up, but not too drastic. As for who would go down to skate with Rolston and Pouliot, I have no idea. Take turns with Bergy and Krejci? This is more about getting better play from the wings.

I am loathe to break up that bottom 6. Right now, any of Seguin, Marchand, or Lucic can sit for Caron for all I care. As it is, if those three keep playing at their current level, they're not surviving this series, let along making any kind of significant run that they're capable of.

[cshea]

I am in the minority that thinks Lucic has been good this series. The bigger issue was Claude's inexplicable decision to flip Bergeron and Krejci for 2+ games. Some of the turnovers were a result of there being no chemistry on the top lines. Lucic has had a few nice rushes where he's swung around the net, and then neither Bergy or Seguin have been able to get open, so he just flings the puck through the top of the crease. The forwards need to do a better job of moving around away from the puck and getting into the open areas. The Caps are overloading in D zone, so there's a lot of open ice on the weak side. It's just a matter of getting the puck there, like they did in game 3.

That Krejci/Bergy decision by Claude made zero sense. Marchand has never played with Krejci, and Bergy has never played with Lucic. So he put guys together that haven't played with each other in the past, which I don't get. I would normally support flipping Kelly and Krejci, but the 3rd line has been so good that I dont think it's worth breaking them up.

[Spaulding Smails]

I am in the minority that thinks Lucic has been good this series. The bigger issue was Claude's inexplicable decision to flip Bergeron and Krejci for 2+ games. Some of the turnovers were a result of there being no chemistry on the top lines. Lucic has had a few nice rushes where he's swung around the net, and then neither Bergy or Seguin have been able to get open, so he just flings the puck through the top of the crease. The forwards need to do a better job of moving around away from the puck and getting into the open areas. The Caps are overloading in D zone, so there's a lot of open ice on the weak side. It's just a matter of getting the puck there, like they did in game 3.

That Krejci/Bergy decision by Claude made zero sense. Marchand has never played with Krejci, and Bergy has never played with Lucic. So he put guys together that haven't played with each other in the past, which I don't get. I would normally support flipping Kelly and Krejci, but the 3rd line has been so good that I dont think it's worth breaking them up.

I completely agree, Lucic needs his linemates to be on track and since no one in the top 6 has their shit together it makes him look bad but I don't have a problem with the way he was played. A couple of other thoughts: I think Marchand has been the worst forward in the top 6 this series, Krejci was handling the puck like a grenade last night and he could have potted at least one goal if he could handle a pass, Seguin looked much more confident last night and he played a stronger game overall, I give the Caps credit defensively for their first two games but I don't think their defense has been anything special the last two.

I'm still confident they get it figured it, its 2-2 and they have gotten jack shit from their best players. It could be much worse.

Edited by Spaulding Smails, 20 April 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[Eddie Jurak]

2.) The first two lines continue to whip the puck through the slot without any intended target. Marchand and Seguin in particular have been doing it consistently.

To be fair, David Krejci is, at least technically, an "intended target". Seguin put it on DK's tape at least twice without him even getting a shot off.

DK made a real nice play in the closing seconds to set Bergy up for what would have been a dramatic tying goal. Maybe he's finally going to get his head out.

Top 5 scorers have 1 assist in a combined 20 man games. It's pretty remarkable that they are tied after 4 games.

[Spaulding Smails]

FWIW:

Boston Bruins ‏ @NHLBruins

Brad Marchand hits the ice early wearing a merlot -colored jersey...^BISH

I wonder if Thornton sits, Marchand gets demoted until he wakes up, and Caron gets inserted in the top 6.

[cshea]

According to Bish, Marchand is sporting the merlot practice jersey today. So there might be some line shuffling. Wonder if we may get a Paille/Caron swap.

Lucic - Krejci - Seguin
Caron - Bergeron - Peverley
Pouliot - Kelly - Rolston
Marchand - Campbell - Thornton

Damn you Smails

Edited by cshea, 20 April 2012 - 12:10 PM.

[Titoschew]

Fluto Shinzawa ‏ @GlobeFluto
Lucic-Krejci-Rolston. Paille-Bergeron-Peverley. Caron/Pouliot-Kelly-Seguin. Marchand-Campbell-Thornton.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Still hate it.

[The Four Peters]

Yeah that's not what I was looking for. I love Paille...he should not be on the 2nd line.

[Zososoxfan]

Fluto Shinzawa ‏ @GlobeFluto
Lucic-Krejci-Rolston. Paille-Bergeron-Peverley. Caron/Pouliot-Kelly-Seguin. Marchand-Campbell-Thornton.

Still hate it.

Even though there's unfamiliarity with these lines, I like that Paille is going to a better line (he's been good this series and I think his game will blend well with Bergy's), I like the potential for Kelly-Seguin, and Marshmont on the 4th line is appropriate - he's been sucking, but has a knack for hustle goals.

Of course, I'm just being optimistic. We're much better than the Caps overall though, so I'm not concerned, but I'm good with the shakeup.

[cshea]

Ugh. We needed a tweak, not a complete overhaul.

[Jed Zeppelin]

I'd just really like to see Caron out there. Sliding Marchand down gives them the opportunity to do it but instead we get Paille on the 2nd?

[PedroSpecialK]

Fuck yeah let's break up the line that's scored 3 goals in 4 games getting 12-14 min a night and bump the fourth line LW up to line 2.

Now watch it work.

[The Four Peters]

Well, I guess this is the flip side of the coin for those who thought Claude was too slow to make changes and adjustments. Can't we find a happy medium?

[Zososoxfan]

Yeah that's not what I was looking for. I love Paille...he should not be on the 2nd line.

I think the 3rd line is going to see as much burn as the 2nd. Talent levels are about even.

[The Four Peters]

Jesus I missed the Rolston and Seguin switch too, I just saw Paille - Marchand. Brutal.

[Spaulding Smails]

Marchand deserves the demotion but jesus Rolston up and Seguin down? I would have understood after the first 3 games but Seguin was much better in Game 4.

[NickEsasky]

I don't understand what Clode is doing here. That's way too much shuffling in the middle of a series. The top two lines had zero chemistry so let's shake them up even more with guys who haven't skated together. Granted watch them put up 6 goals tomorrow, but as of right now it reeks of a panic move.

[Titoschew]

Terminate Clode.