377 replies to this topic

[BucketOBalls]

SVG says Dwight Howard wants him fired

That has to be one of the mist bizarre things I've ever heard. Not that I don't believe it. But why would SVG tell the press that?

[jmm57]

I always liked Dwight, but he has come off really bad this year, IMO.

First saying who he would and wouldn't play for publicly while still a member of the Magic, and now this? He is becoming pretty unlikeable.

What an awkward moment when he had his arm around SVG. And the game he played last night after all this left a lot to be desired, including playing to the NY crowd on the bench. What a bizarre day.

Edited by jmm57, 06 April 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[redsahx]

SVG says Dwight Howard wants him fired

That has to be one of the mist bizarre things I've ever heard. Not that I don't believe it. But why would SVG tell the press that?

Yeah I can't recall a coach publicly accusing a player of trying to get him run out of town. If this were 5 days ago, I'd call it an April fools joke. Unless SVG has totally lost it, he wouldn't say such a thing unless he knew his situation was hopeless, and was just trying to get his side out BEFORE he officially becomes an ex-coach. Given how desperate the Magic ownership and management still must be to keep Howard long term, if they think that's truly how Dwight feels, SVG is gone. It might even be worth doing it before the playoffs now, on the slight chance they can catch lightning in the bottle. It couldn't make their playoff odds any worse at this point.

[AimingForYoko]

If he's on his way out, it's not that bizarre. Might as well take everyone down with you.

Especially if ownership thinks that Dwight might stay if SVG goes.

[wutang112878]

Great move by SVG. He gets to call out Howard for all to see, once he gets fired he can explain to potential future employers why that happened, and he gets to screw over the Magics management which sucks. Chances are he already knows he is fired, so I commend him for going down in a blaze of glory like this.

[Nomar813]

Great move by SVG. He gets to call out Howard for all to see, once he gets fired he can explain to potential future employers why that happened, and he gets to screw over the Magics management which sucks. Chances are he already knows he is fired, so I commend him for going down in a blaze of glory like this.

That's pretty much it. Probably the only reason to come out with something like this is if he knows he's in a lame duck session. Dwight comes off like a prick to match his flying elbows and often childish attitude and Van Gundy gets some quality schadenfreude. My guess is that Dwight brought the request to management while discussing his contract option and that he agreed to the extra year if they would let SVG go after his contract expires this summer.

[BucketOBalls]

Great move by SVG. He gets to call out Howard for all to see, once he gets fired he can explain to potential future employers why that happened, and he gets to screw over the Magics management which sucks. Chances are he already knows he is fired, so I commend him for going down in a blaze of glory like this.

While he gets to call out howard...who is gonna hire him again? A coach who can't get along with his star player is worthless in this league. He could go into broadcasting I suppose.

[BigSoxFan]

who is gonna hire him again?

A franchise that likes winning games? SVG is a very good coach.

[collings94]

The sad thing is that even if Howard is mailing in games and being a prima donna, he still might win Defensive Player of the Year and be First Team NBA. Says something about Dwight's talent and the sad state of Centers in the NBA.

[Brickowski]

Rumor is that boy scout Dwight wanted Brian Hill fired too-- and got his wish.

[Nomar813]

Rumor is that boy scout Dwight wanted Brian Hill fired too-- and got his wish.

And that marked the second time a Magic player successfully ousted Hill as head coach.

[CJM]

SVG says Dwight Howard wants him fired

That has to be one of the mist bizarre things I've ever heard. Not that I don't believe it. But why would SVG tell the press that?

The story itself is bizarre, but one of my favorite aspects right now is Wojnarowski's article. Not only does he bring the flaming sword of righteous indignation better than any current sports reporter I can think of, but in an article that has absolutely nothing to do with Lebron he still manages to work in a couple of Lebron digs.

Lebron must have snuck into Wojnarowski's house and farted into his cereal for a month straight, because Adrian's disdain burns like the eternal flame.

Edited by CJM, 06 April 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[Statman]

I can't find the articles, but there were reports that Howard was exaggerating the extent of his injuries in order to conveniently sit out two supposedly winnable games against DEN and DET. Well, the Magic lost those games and apparently some of the other Magic got fed up with Howard's excuses. I guess SVG just put the cherry on top.

[Sprowl]

While he gets to call out howard...who is gonna hire him again? A coach who can't get along with his star player is worthless in this league. He could go into broadcasting I suppose.

Stan Van Gundy has a face for radio and a voice for print. I can't imagine an announcer I'd mute faster.

[Brickowski]

Stan Van Gundy has a face for radio and a voice for print. I can't imagine an announcer I'd mute faster.

He could always do porn.

[Zomp]

Well played.

[pedrosdaddy]

Stan Van Gundy has a face for radio and a voice for print. I can't imagine an announcer I'd mute faster.

yeah much better to listen to a clown who sounds good rather than a guy who's probably the best coach in the NBA.

[pedrosdaddy]

A franchise that likes winning games? SVG is a very good coach.

Tibs and Pimplevich seem like the only two other coaches in his league. If he gets fired I would be very surprised if he wasn't flooded with offers.

[Sprowl]

yeah much better to listen to a clown who sounds good rather than a guy who's probably the best coach in the NBA.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Is it the championship rings? (Oh wait.) Is it the feuds with star players? Is it the offensive scheme that can't get Dwight Howard the ball where he needs it?

It's gotta be the shoes.


I'd rather listen to an intelligent, experienced commentator who works well with others, doesn't hog the camera, and knows when to shut up. That's not Stan, although it might be his brother.

[fairlee76]

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Is it the championship rings? (Oh wait.) Is it the feuds with star players? Is it the offensive scheme that can't get Dwight Howard the ball where he needs it?

It's gotta be the shoes.


I'd rather listen to an intelligent, experienced commentator who works well with others, doesn't hog the camera, and knows when to shut up. That's not Stan, although it might be his brother.

I was about to respond to the "great coach" post with something along these lines. A huge part of being a successful head coach in the NBA is getting along with your star players. If Howard has come across as a spoiled, stupid child over the last few years, SVG has come across as an intelligent child. The screeching during timeouts, the passive-aggressive prodding, and the calling out of Howard for being too happy (or whatever it was) were all antics best left to guys like Phil Jackson. AKA, coaches who have won a bunch of titles and have some cachet with their star players.

Edit: But I absolutely loved yesterday's interview, especially the part where oblivious Howard comes onto the scene. Great theater.

Edited by fairlee76, 06 April 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[radsoxfan]

I too think SVG probably knows he is gone, and wanted to set up his departure on his own terms. No other reason to say what he said, unless he is just a complete moron (entirely possible).

As far as him being a good coach.......

I thought he was average when he started, and expected him to be very good with more experience. Given the recent events, I don't know how much of his last 1+ years has been spent trying to get fired, but recently he has been horrible. Completely amateurish stuff. Probably one of the worst 5 coaches in the league over the last year and a half. Of course I don't see them play as often as the Celtics, but Id say he's made at least 5 unequivocally terrible decisions in each of the last 6-8 games I've seen him coach.

Edited by radsoxfan, 06 April 2012 - 08:01 PM.

[Brickowski]

It doesn't matter whether or not SVG is a top flight coach, just average, or below average. The probem is that, due to the star system in the NBA, players can demand that coaches be fired, whether its Dwight Howard or Carmello Anthony. The franchises where that happens rarely win squat and neither will the players involved until they grow up. Can you imagine Tim Duncan demanding that Popovich be fired after a down year by the Spurs? The inmates can't run the asylum.

The blame falls squarely on Orlando management in this case. They should have traded Howard AND fired SVG. Of course, the irony is that if they had traded Howard, it would have been to LA for Bynum, who is trying almost as hard to get Mike Brown fired.

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Rumor is that boy scout Dwight wanted Brian Hill fired too-- and got his wish.

Didn't Howard also want Bass gone for Big Baby Davis?

[pedrosdaddy]

How did you arrive at this conclusion? Is it the championship rings? (Oh wait.) Is it the feuds with star players? Is it the offensive scheme that can't get Dwight Howard the ball where he needs it?

It's gotta be the shoes.


I'd rather listen to an intelligent, experienced commentator who works well with others, doesn't hog the camera, and knows when to shut up. That's not Stan, although it might be his brother.

So we should use championship rings to quantify just how good a NBA head coach is? Seems like a really inefficient way of doing so.

Regarding "feuding with superstars", I think Dwight Howard is a legit drama queen nut-bag. If thats what Orlando wants, then hire a Mike Brown bobblehead and hope you gather enough talent to overcome a massive decision making hole.

Regarding why I think hes a great coach, I will give you my reasons. I bet fantasy sports pretty heavily and as a result of this watch close to 75% of the NBA games each season. SVG is almost without peer when it comes to end-game clock management. Scott Skiles appears to be damn good also but those two are on a different planet that the rest of the league. This is a huge edge over the course of 82 games.

SVG (and 3-4 other HC's) coached teams also do two things that are pretty damn important and thats scheme an offense thats focuses on creating looks from the corner three area and having defenses focused on preventing the other team from doing so. This is super important because of how efficient this shot is. This is no secret, as anybody who follows the NBA will know, but as we see in other sports (see Belichick being so far ahead of the curve with 4th down decisions) head coaches do dumb obvious stuff all the time.

I have no idea about the mans people skills, but considering his current 'fued' is with a guy who appears to be a whack-job I will cut him some slack. I would also love to hear him as an analyst as opposed to some buffoon who spouts cliches non stop.

If I was starting an NBA franchise and could have any coach, he would be on the short list. He 'gets' it.

Edited by pedrosdaddy, 07 April 2012 - 05:03 AM.

[pedrosdaddy]

I also want to add that if ORL management has to decide between SVG or DH, then I am in agreement with the rest of you that SVG is the one to go...Unlike somebody like Carmelo taking the team hostage, DH is just too damn hard to replace.

Trading DH and then firing SVG would be epic stupidity.

[Brickowski]

I also want to add that if ORL management has to decide between SVG or DH, then I am in agreement with the rest of you that SVG is the one to go...Unlike somebody like Carmelo taking the team hostage, DH is just too damn hard to replace.

Trading DH and then firing SVG would be epic stupidity.

Why? With a handful of exceptions, coaches are fungible. As for trading stars, it depends on what you get back. Denver is a better team now than when they had Melo. And even though Memphis got little back for Pau Gasol (except draft picks and flexibility) they are a better team now than when they had Pau.

[Ed Hillel]

While he gets to call out howard...who is gonna hire him again? A coach who can't get along with his star player is worthless in this league. He could go into broadcasting I suppose.

Probably an organization that doesn't give one of its player the power to hire and fire GMs and coaches. SVG is doing absolutely nothing wrong here. The situation he has been put in is a traveshamockery. What is he supposed to do? Sit back and take it? Whatever negative thing he has to say about Howard and/or Magic management makes me happy.

[radsoxfan]

Regarding why I think hes a great coach, I will give you my reasons. I bet fantasy sports pretty heavily and as a result of this watch close to 75% of the NBA games each season. SVG is almost without peer when it comes to end-game clock management. Scott Skiles appears to be damn good also but those two are on a different planet that the rest of the league. This is a huge edge over the course of 82 games.

SVG (and 3-4 other HC's) coached teams also do two things that are pretty damn important and thats scheme an offense thats focuses on creating looks from the corner three area and having defenses focused on preventing the other team from doing so. This is super important because of how efficient this shot is. This is no secret, as anybody who follows the NBA will know, but as we see in other sports (see Belichick being so far ahead of the curve with 4th down decisions) head coaches do dumb obvious stuff all the time.

With the caveat that I do not watch 75% of all NBA games like you.....

In the last 2 seasons, I have probably seen SVG coach only 10 games, mostly against the Celtics, so perhaps my opinion is based on a small sample size. His end game management, substitution pattern, general strategy, etc has been an absolute train wreck. Just totally nonsensical. It's honestly felt like he was trying to get fired to me, and now I wonder if there might be some truth to that.

Obviously I'm not going to go back and watch the tapes to get the evidence, so this is just one persons opinion. But I don't think he has been a good coach at all the last few years.

Out of curiosity, do you play fantasy sports, bet on sports, or bet fantasy sports? Just a bit confused on your reasoning for watching approximately 900 NBA games every season.

[pedrosdaddy]

Why? With a handful of exceptions, coaches are fungible. As for trading stars, it depends on what you get back. Denver is a better team now than when they had Melo. And even though Memphis got little back for Pau Gasol (except draft picks and flexibility) they are a better team now than when they had Pau.

DH is on a different planet in terms of overall worth that Melo and Pau, they are poor examples. Lebron leaving CLE is a far better example.

I agree most coaches are fungible but I thought I already explained why I thought that wasn't the case with SVG. IMO, hes very special. Of couse thats just MO but I feel its an educated one. The only reason to fire him would be if it would keep DH in town. As crazy as DH appears to be, he is just too good to not have on your team.

[pedrosdaddy]

Out of curiosity, do you play fantasy sports, bet on sports, or bet fantasy sports? Just a bit confused on your reasoning for watching approximately 900 NBA games every season.

I bet fantasy sports at reasonable sums and also used to do a lot of player prop betting.

[Brickowski]

DH is on a different planet in terms of overall worth that Melo and Pau, they are poor examples. Lebron leaving CLE is a far better example.

LeBron is a terrible example. The Cavs got NOTHING for him. At least the Magic would have gotten Bynum for Howard. Or, if they had traded him to the Nets, they would have gotten Lopez and picks, plus they would have unloaded Hedo and his terrible deal.

The LeBron scenario is exactly why you trade a player like Howard before he hits free agency. As it is, the Magic have postphoned the inevitable for a year. That's all.

[pedrosdaddy]

LeBron is a terrible example. The Cavs got NOTHING for him. At least the Magic would have gotten Bynum for Howard. Or, if they had traded him to the Nets, they would have gotten Lopez and picks, plus they would have unloaded Hedo and his terrible deal.

The LeBron scenario is exactly why you trade a player like Howard before he hits free agency. As it is, the Magic have postphoned the inevitable for a year. That's all.

The poster I was responding to was giving examples of "star" players leaving a team and said team going on to be just fine. I was just pointing out that losing Dwight is nothing like losing Melo or Pau. The only examples of teams losing somebody this good (or trading him off) that come to mind are Bron and Shaq.

I'm not arguing the Magic should or shouldnt trade him...just that hes pretty clearly the second best player in the NBA and probably closer to #1 than #3.

[Brickowski]

I'm not arguing the Magic should or shouldnt trade him

Of course you were. You said that firing SVG and then trading Howard would be "epic stupidity." Are you taking that back?

Edited by Brickowski, 07 April 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[pedrosdaddy]

Of course you were. You said that firing SVG and then trading Howard would be "epic stupidity." Are you taking that back?

I think if you re-read the thread and apply proper context to what I wrote (not to mention the order of the events) you will see that's not what I said. If you don't see that....well then I don't know what to say.

[Brickowski]

I think if you re-read the thread and apply proper context to what I wrote (not to mention the order of the events) you will see that's not what I said. If you don't see that....well then I don't know what to say.

Well, here is your entire post: "I also want to add that if ORL management has to decide between SVG or DH, then I am in agreement with the rest of you that SVG is the one to go...Unlike somebody like Carmelo taking the team hostage, DH is just too damn hard to replace. Trading DH and then firing SVG would be epic stupidity."

If I misread it, could yoou explain what you really meant?

[Royal Reader]

LeBron is a terrible example. The Cavs got NOTHING for him. At least the Magic would have gotten Bynum for Howard. Or, if they had traded him to the Nets, they would have gotten Lopez and picks, plus they would have unloaded Hedo and his terrible deal.

The LeBron scenario is exactly why you trade a player like Howard before he hits free agency. As it is, the Magic have postphoned the inevitable for a year. That's all.

You'd think, but in the NBA it's better to be terrible than mediocre. All getting Andrew Bynum does is give your team a slightly worse lottery pick for the next couple years.

Of course you were. You said that firing SVG and then trading Howard would be "epic stupidity." Are you taking that back?

He called one of three options stupid: Fire SVG and trade Howard. That leaves two, Fire SVG and keep Howard, or Keep SVG and trade Howard. Between which he didn't express a preference. The point pedrosdaddy is making, which is a good one, is that it's stupid to fire a good coach to appease a star player if you're planning on trading that star player anyway. (YMMV on how good a coach SVG actually is).

[Brickowski]

Frankly I think Howard is gone to the Nets. He stayed for one more year to help defray the salary hit he will take if he goes to free agency instead of staying in Orlando. Orlando would be wise to trade him whether or not the franchise elects to keep SVG. Wouldn't it be "epic stupidity" to fire a good coach (assuming SVG is one) in a futile attempt to keep a player who is almost certain to leave?

Edited by Brickowski, 10 April 2012 - 01:26 PM.

[Royal Reader]

Sure. But the level of stupidity in that case depends on how close to certain Howard is to leave, and how much value you put on that one extra year of Howard. Given the crucial importance of having a superstar, if Howard were, say, 20% to choose to stay in 2013 if Van Gundy goes, and absolutely certain to go if SVG stays, it may be worth the risk. I'd tend to lean (much) more strongly to your scenario than that one. But you know, staying in Orlando for one more year without signing a long-term extension would probably have been the single thing I felt Howard was least likely to do, so I'm slightly wary of asserting anything about what Dwight Howard is or isn't going to do with any confidence.

But if they're planning on trading Howard anyway, then doing anything with a real cost to the franchise to appease him (read: make him more likely to stay) is so clearly self-defeating, that it merits being singled out for its stupidity.

[Brickowski]

My guess is that they'll do everything they can to keep Howard (including firing SVG) but they'll lose him anyway.

[Royal Reader]

I don't disagree, but they may feel even if it's a longshot they have to try.

[collings94]

Does Howard still make first team all NBA? Do you reward Howard for being a good teammate this year?

[Brickowski]

Allegedly he now has a herniated disc. Is the injury real, or is Howard just packing it in?

[Ed Hillel]

If Miami gets bouned early, I could still see a Wade for Howard trade. It almost makes too much sense.

[TomRicardo]

If Miami gets bouned early, I could still see a Wade for Howard trade. It almost makes too much sense.

How does that make any sense? For Orlando, you get Wade who at best drags your corpse of a team to an 8th seed a couple of times until his legs give out. At worst, he is absolutely miserable getting traded to an absolutely horrible situation with no help of ever playing a relevant game again in his career.

For the Heat, you are trading away the leader of your team and your franchise player for another mercurial superstar who doesn't get the big picture. Watching Howard, Bosh, and LeBron play hot potato with the last shot of the game on the line should be fun.

[BigSoxFan]

How does that make any sense? For Orlando, you get Wade who at best drags your corpse of a team to an 8th seed a couple of times until his legs give out. At worst, he is absolutely miserable getting traded to an absolutely horrible situation with no help of ever playing a relevant game again in his career.

For the Heat, you are trading away the leader of your team and your franchise player for another mercurial superstar who doesn't get the big picture. Watching Howard, Bosh, and LeBron play hot potato with the last shot of the game on the line should be fun.

I can see why Miami wouldn't do it but Wade is a 30 years-old and Howard is 26. Doing that trade would give Miami the perfect NBA frontcourt. Howard would control the paint, Bosh would be able to operate in the high post where he is at his best, and LeBron would be the primary scorer. All you'd need is a shooter at the 2 and a guy who can take the ball handling burden off of LeBron. Basketball-wise, I think it makes sense for Miami without factoring in all the "Dwight and LeBron" are losers talk.

As for Orlando, if you're going to lose Howard, getting Wade is a coup. Either you keep him and have something to sell to your fanbase or you trade him and get a very good package of young players/picks.

Ultimately, I don't think Miami would ever trade Wade so this scenario has a very small chance of actually being relevant.

[TomRicardo]

Orlando would be an awful team with Wade. Florida fans hate pro sports and are about as fair weather as you can get. The trade kills ticket sales for both teams as Orlando fans would quickly lose interest in the perennial ~40 win team Wade would drag on his back (better just to lose and get a exciting new young player in the lottery)

[simplyeric]

Now they're saying that Howard might be unavailable for the playoffs.

I wonder if that's just the physical reality of his herniated disk, or if he's trying to manipulate the SVG situation.

Hmm.

[Stitch01]

http://espn.go.com/n...-stan-van-gundy

Supposedly wont play the playoffs if SVG coaches

[Ed Hillel]

Howard needs to be suspended without pay ASAP.

[Ed Hillel]

Oh wait, I have a joke.

Looks like Orlando now has two Big Babies.

BOOM.