280 replies to this topic

[dynomite]

Figured this is worth it's own topic, perhaps apart from who we'd prefer to be the long-term option.

"On the days when Alfredo’s not available, if Mark Melancon is available, he’ll be doing it. I think the guys reading up to that will be very credible," Valentine said. "Just from what we’ve seen this spring and [he’s] a little more familiar with the American League. He was in the plans while he was starting.

"He loves competition. I think he’s one of the better competitors that I’ve seen. I could be wrong, I haven’t seen him up close and personal in battle. But I believe that he’s a very good competitor to say nothing of a very good pitcher."

Globe

What say ye?

Edited by dynomite, 04 April 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[mauidano]

Bring it. Ace has the makeup. He's fearless, slightly off center and a hell of a pitcher.

[Yaz4Ever]

I, for one, am pretty happy. Love Aceves and the fire he brings. The inherited runner issues others have brought up will, hopefully, not be an issue as he's trotted out in the 9th inning.

[C4CRVT]

One way to find out. I think he'll be pretty good.

[DanoooME]

Hopefully he'll get chances to come in the 8th inning for 2 inning saves. He might be better utilized like that at least on occasion, particularly if the pen falters early in the year.

[Rasputin]

If used in a conventional manner, this is a bad idea. If used in an unconventional manner, it might not.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

[TheGoldenGreek33]

Bobby V needs to grow a pair. Aceves gets pissed when he's told he won't be in the rotation, so BV throws him a bone when there was a better pitcher with closer experience available.

Aceves is coming off a season with a .231 BABIP, 80.1% LOB and a 5.3 HR/FB.

Short leash, please.

[RedOctober3829]

Nice job Bobby. Let's take the most versatile reliever on the roster and shoehorn him into a 3 out role. Yes, I'm aware that he might be brought into the game in the 8th inning on occasion but Aceves is the guy I want when it's the 6th inning of a close game.

[cornwalls@6]

Can live with it. I was of the opinion in the Bailey injury thread that Bard made the most sense for a long term need at closer, but Ace has has the durable arm we've all seen, a good, and slightly bat-shit, make-up, and will probably do fine here. Hopefully he takes the job by the balls and ends all conversation about needing to move Bard back to the pen.

[LeoCarrillo]

Good long-horizon sea captain move by V. Even if in reality it's a two-headed closer (with Melancon), smart to pump up Ace after the disappointment of getting sent back to the pen. If Ace falters, he'll take a middle-relief role w/o a grudge. If he excels, crazy man will be more entertaining than Kenny Powers.

[SoxScout]

If used in a conventional manner, this is a bad idea. If used in an unconventional manner, it might not.

On the radio Valentine just said he will be used in a traditional role.. "but wouldn't be scared to sit him down and send him back out."

[glennhoffmania]

Since I can't stand the idea of a closer I don't really care. My only issue is Red's point above- his versatility may be his biggest strength, and now he won't be used in close games in the 6th or 7th.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Bobby V needs to grow a pair. Aceves gets pissed when he's told he won't be in the rotation, so BV throws him a bone when there was a better pitcher with closer experience available.

Aceves is coming off a season with a .231 BABIP, 80.1% LOB and a 5.3 HR/FB.

Short leash, please.

The idea of a short leash makes no sense -- how can he vulture wins as a closer, if he's not blowing saves?

FWIW (not much), I actually love this idea. Aceves will achieve Boston immortality in 2012.

[Jinhocho]

I would have preferred to see Bard - will wait and see on Aceves but man o man Bard has the stuff and the makeup to be the closer.

[Lose Remerswaal]

Good for Fettucini!

Bobby V needs to grow a pair. Aceves gets pissed when he's told he won't be in the rotation, so BV throws him a bone when there was a better pitcher with closer experience available.

Aceves is coming off a season with a .231 BABIP, 80.1% LOB and a 5.3 HR/FB.

Short leash, please.

Yeah, that's it, that's why he's now the closer. Actually, BV bent Bailey's finger back until the ligament snapped so he could do this.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Actually, BV bent Bailey's finger back until the ligament snapped so he could do this.

Nah, BobbyV's Italian, so it's obvious he directed Beckett to do it for him.

[dynomite]

If used in a conventional manner, this is a bad idea. If used in an unconventional manner, it might not.

Say more. What kind of "unconventional" are you looking for? Bringing him into the 7th inning when we have a 1-run lead? Two inning saves?

It's also funny to see the two groups who are upset:
Group 1: He's too good to be a closer!
Group 2: He's too crappy to be a closer!

[Clears Cleaver]

More importantly, what is going to be his entrance music?!?!

[judyb]

Nice job Bobby. Let's take the most versatile reliever on the roster and shoehorn him into a 3 out role. Yes, I'm aware that he might be brought into the game in the 8th inning on occasion but Aceves is the guy I want when it's the 6th inning of a close game.

I think that's what the other crazy guy is for, he's not going to be able to do it 5 times a week like Aceves did, but, if they need a guy to do that 5 times a week again, they'd better do something about the rotation or they're screwed anyway.

[E5 Yaz]

More importantly, what is going to be his entrance music?!?!

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

I would assume that if Aceves struggles they'll look to acquire another potential closer early in the season.

[E5 Yaz]

I would assume that if Aceves struggles they'll look to acquire another potential closer early in the season.

Or, you know, give the job to the guy in the pen who has done it before

[Sprowl]

Nice job Bobby. Let's take the most versatile reliever on the roster and shoehorn him into a 3 out role. Yes, I'm aware that he might be brought into the game in the 8th inning on occasion but Aceves is the guy I want when it's the 6th inning of a close game.

It looks like Aceves got the more prestigious closer job as a sop to his ego, but I agree that it doesn't take best advantage of his unique assets. I would have preferred Aceves as the Jamesian relief ace, based on his past excellence in the role.

The idea of a short leash makes no sense -- how can he vulture wins as a closer, if he's not blowing saves?

FWIW (not much), I actually love this idea. Aceves will achieve Boston immortality in 2012.

If he wakes up in the morning, he's good. He certainly has a springboard to immortality from September 2011. He nearly carried the team to the playoffs single-handedly.

I would have preferred to see Bard - will wait and see on Aceves but man o man Bard has the stuff and the makeup to be the closer.

I agree that Bard has the stuff, but what makes you think that he has the makeup to be a closer? I think he has the makeup to be a starter, but as a reliever he does not rise to the occasion, and occasionally does the opposite.

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

So ACE will not be vulturing this season.

[Red(s)HawksFan]

It looks like Aceves got the more prestigious closer job as a sop to his ego, but I agree that it doesn't take best advantage of his unique assets. I would have preferred Aceves as the Jamesian relief ace, based on his past excellence in the role.

Seems Ace agrees with that.

@TBritton_Projo

Aceves on closing: "It's not a challenge. It's a compromise."

[E5 Yaz]

Aceves on closing: "It's not a challenge. It's a compromise."

This better start out well on the field

[luckysox]

Yeesh. That's an interesting quote...hope he can walk the walk with this sort of talk.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

The Best thing about Ace is that he never Sweats the small stuff.....

His entrance music should be La Vita Loca


I love this move. I don't think Ace will relinquish the role anytime soon. He'll get guys out and intimidate in the process. I think the move fits his personality well and Bobby V. may be right about Melancon not having the sack to close in the AL East, plus I like Melancon coming on in the 7th and 8th and getting a double play grounder when needed. You have an extreme groundball pitcher who might be just as wasted in the closer role as Ace's versatility.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Aceves on closing: "It's not a challenge. It's a compromise."

Shows just the perfect combination of confident anger and angry confidence of which 9th-inning legends are born.

Can we get Caleb Clay on moustachio duty for this man, stat? And has the staff Texan Brigade been placed on high alert yet?\\\

[edit:] And can someone let him know that the intro to "Killing in the Name" may be as to for unspoken this season?

Edited by Buzzkill Pauley, 04 April 2012 - 03:10 PM.

[PaulinMyrBch]

If he had said, "It's not a promotion, its a compromise" I'd understand better. I would think just about any role as a pitcher would be a challenge (save perhaps Pedro starting an All-Star game).

Needless to say, I'm rooting for lights out here.

[Toe Nash]

If used in a conventional manner, this is a bad idea. If used in an unconventional manner, it might not.

I agree. "Stuff" trumps "Makeup" for 98% of what it takes to be a good closer. His year last year was a mirage. He has value in being rubber-armed and giving you 1-3 innings on the drop of a hat. Not in what you look for from the closer as it's now known -- getting 3 (sometimes 4) tough outs.

[bluefenderstrat]

He does have a career .889 winning percentage and all, but "compromise"? Sheesh.

[Laser Show]

I like Melancon more in the set-up role with his groundball abilities, so I like that they're giving this a shot.

I think Aceves will do well. That being said, I'll be disappointed if Valentine doesn't take advantage of his rubber-arm and use him as a multiple-innings closer.

[Savin Hillbilly]

Shows just the perfect combination of confident anger and angry confidence of which 9th-inning legends are born.

Really? I think it shows narcissistic douchery on a scale that is practically begging the baseball gods to squash him like a bug.

We shall see.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

I agree. "Stuff" trumps "Makeup" for 98% of what it takes to be a good closer. His year last year was a mirage. He has value in being rubber-armed and giving you 1-3 innings on the drop of a hat. Not in what you look for from the closer as it's now known -- getting 3 (sometimes 4) tough outs.

Really

I've seen more "Stuff" guys like Billy Koch, Kyle Farsworth, Bobby Parnell, Bobby Jenks who throw 100mph fail at closer than guys like Trevor Hoffman, Kieth Foulke, Reardon, Eckersly, who were more about make-up who succeeded.

Edited by Carl Everetts Therapist, 04 April 2012 - 03:32 PM.

[Rasputin]

Really

I've seen more "Stuff" guys like Billy Koch, Kyle Farsworth, Bobby Parnell, Bobby Jenks who throw 100mph fail at closer than guys like Trevor Hoffman, Kieth Foulke, Reardon, Eckersly, who were more about make-up who succeeded.

You're using odd definitions of "stuff" and "makeup."

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

True, but guys tend to term stuff as high velocity, when guys have a good change-up (Foulk, Hoffman) they term them change of speed guys, slop throwers etc. Guys like Eck and Quisenberry were even side-armers who were known for guile. I'd go more towards a 60-40% stuff to make-up split

[Toe Nash]

True, but guys tend to term stuff as high velocity, when guys have a good change-up (Foulk, Hoffman) they term them change of speed guys, slop throwers etc. Guys like Eck and Quisenberry were even side-armers who were known for guile. I'd go more towards a 60-40% stuff to make-up split

OK, by "stuff" I mean "good results backed by solid peripherals." How's that?

A nasty changeup that you can control like Foulke's counts as good "stuff" too, by the way. Or Eckersley's slider.

[rembrat]

Not a fan. An already thin bullpen just became thinner. Aceves' greatest strength is going multiple innings on any given day and he is given a role where he cant do so. It's like telling Ortiz to hit singles the other way.

[Al Zarilla]

True, but guys tend to term stuff as high velocity, when guys have a good change-up (Foulk, Hoffman) they term them change of speed guys, slop throwers etc. Guys like Eck and Quisenberry were even side-armers who were known for guile. I'd go more towards a 60-40% stuff to make-up split

I think Quiz was a submarine style pitcher, at least for his most effective years. Would you label Eck as a sidearmer? I thought he varied from 3/4 to occasional sidearm, but I could be wrong. The sidearm option was for RHHs to soil themselves like with two strikes on them. I don't remember him as mostly sidearm.

Edited by Al Zarilla, 04 April 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

Eck was pretty close to sidearm, he wasn't a knuckle scraper like Bradford, but he brought his hands down below his leg kick on his wind-up.


Pete Abe has some quotes from Aceves that sound more Gratious then the above quote:

"I'm excited, I'm really excited, I know it doesn't look it because I have a bad face , but I'm really excited"

per fat abe's tweet

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Or, you know, give the job to the guy in the pen who has done it before

If Aceves fails as a closer, I would assume he would be failing as a pitcher. Right now we have two relievers that we have confidence in (Aceves, Melancon) with others that are relative unknowns. If you promote Melancon after Aceves fails, your pen becomes much shorter. If you don't acquire a closer to replace Aceves, you still need to acquire a setup man to replace Melancon.

I don't expect Aceves to be Papelbon. In fact, my expectation is that the bullpen shakes out to be similar to Cleveland's bullpen in 2007. The difference potentially being that Aceves can go more than 1 inning if need be. Joe Borowski wasn't the best guy in that bullpen, Rafael Betancourt and Rafael Perez were much better. My hope is that something like that with Melancon and Morales comes together in front of Aceves.

[Van Everyman]

Is there anydecision Bobby V could make that would please his detractors? I feel like if he'd picked Melancon, the same people bitching about this would complain he's never pitched in the AL. Or if he'd picked Bard, they'd say he was jerking the guy around.

Edit: formatting

Edited by Van Everyman, 04 April 2012 - 04:25 PM.

[trekfan55]

If Aceves fails as a closer, I would assume he would be failing as a pitcher. Right now we have two relievers that we have confidence in (Aceves, Melancon) with others that are relative unknowns. If you promote Melancon after Aceves fails, your pen becomes much shorter. If you don't acquire a closer to replace Aceves, you still need to acquire a setup man to replace Melancon.

I don't expect Aceves to be Papelbon. In fact, my expectation is that the bullpen shakes out to be similar to Cleveland's bullpen in 2007. The difference potentially being that Aceves can go more than 1 inning if need be. Joe Borowski wasn't the best guy in that bullpen, Rafael Betancourt and Rafael Perez were much better. My hope is that something like that with Melancon and Morales comes together in front of Aceves.

Totally agreed with this. There are some times when leaving the best option at setup is more valuable than doing so at closer.

That being said, I think Aceves will surprise us (in a good way).

[Rasputin]

Is there anydecision Bobby V could make that would please his detractors? I feel like if he'd picked Melancon, the same people bitching about this would complain he's never pitched in the AL. Or if he'd picked Bard, they'd say he was jerking the guy around.

Edit: formatting

I would be pleased if he picked Melancon.

I am pleased that Bard and Doubront are in the rotation.

[joyofsox]

More importantly, what is going to be his entrance music?!?!

[kieckeredinthehead]

For all the complaints about not being able to use Aceves in middle relief, it's hard not to forget about what actually happened last September: Aceves showed that he was the greatest, fiercest, most reliable, rubber-armed middle reliever the Red Sox had ever seen, which added up to absolutely nothing at month's end.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

For me, it starts and ends with his .235 BABIP over 240 total innings. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that it could be sustainable. I don't think it's a question of whether it'll come up so much as how much. Combining that rise in BABIP with a move to higher leverage innings seems like a recipe for disaster. I am not enthusiastic about this.

[behindthepen]

2011
1st PA, SP 167/324/167 47 ops+
1st PA, RP 194/274/330 74 ops+
High levg 163/303/213 48 ops+

Definitely not a traditional closer with all the walks, but obviously that batting average was damned good.