129 replies to this topic

[SoxScout]

I wonder if this is Dent's last day in the Org, the minor league guys all take off in the morning.

[Rasputin]

Go look at Ciriaco's career.

Go look at Punto's.

They both suck. I am as convinced that Punto is better than Ciriaco as I am that Ciriaco is better than Punto.

Ciriaco is cheaper.

[ThePieholeOfDavidWells]

But that is exactly what we need right now.

To be clear, I'm not saying they would or should trade Doubront now. He's the only player that has any trade value out of the 4 players that are up for 3 spots (except Bard, who's not going anywhere).

[E5 Yaz]

We need Punto so that we can watch Foulkey implode this summer

[SoxScout]

Go look at Punto's.

They both suck. I am as convinced that Punto is better than Ciriaco as I am that Ciriaco is better than Punto.

Ciriaco is cheaper.

I think Punto is pretty awful, but Ciriaco can't hold his jock.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

Does Melancon have any options left? He may need some more seasoning in Pawtucket

[SoxScout]

Jesus, Valentine wouldn't announce his rotation after the game.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

I know that Ciriaco is the definition of noodle bat, but wasn't he a pretty decently respected prospect at one time in the bucks org? Maybe he is finnally figuring this game out

[MalzoneExpress]

Ciriaco is Crespo with speed.

[Pumpsie]

What the heck is the delay at this point?

The back end of the bullpen is still shaky...that's what. There's no question that Bard would be inked in as a starter IF our set-up pitcher and closer were rock-solid...but they're not. It's not a question if Bard can do it. It's a question if Melancon and Bailey can do it. Is anyone comfortable with the thought of Melancon closing games against the Yankees, Rangers, Angels et al this season? He'll have to when Bailey has been used in back-to-back games. I think that some of the people making this decision would feel better if Bard were back there as well with Doubront and Aceves starting. They have a point.

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

The back end of the bullpen is still shaky...that's what. There's no question that Bard would be inked in as a starter IF our set-up pitcher and closer were rock-solid...but they're not. It's not a question if Bard can do it. It's a question if Melancon and Bailey can do it. Is anyone comfortable with the thought of Melancon closing games against the Yankees, Rangers, Angels et al this season? He'll have to when Bailey has been used in back-to-back games. I think that some of the people making this decision would feel better if Bard were back there as well with Doubront and Aceves starting. They have a point.

I agree with your statement on Melancon, I'm nervous about him too. But it sounds like the two he let in today might be a little misleading.

From Pete Abe's Game Log:

Game over: Red Sox 9, Twins 7: Sorry for the lack of recent updates. Had to conduct some interviews in the clubhouse.

Big Mauro Gomes belted a two-run homer for the Sox in the eighth inning. Albers allowed two runs as did Melancon. Melancon gave up a bunch of bleeders and was hampered by a double-play grounder that Ryan Dent booted.

[Pumpsie]

I agree with your statement on Melancon, I'm nervous about him too. But it sounds like the two he let in today might be a little misleading.

From Pete Abe's Game Log:

That makes me feel better.

[rembrat]

The back end of the bullpen is still shaky...that's what. There's no question that Bard would be inked in as a starter IF our set-up pitcher and closer were rock-solid...but they're not. It's not a question if Bard can do it. It's a question if Melancon and Bailey can do it. Is anyone comfortable with the thought of Melancon closing games against the Yankees, Rangers, Angels et al this season? He'll have to when Bailey has been used in back-to-back games. I think that some of the people making this decision would feel better if Bard were back there as well with Doubront and Aceves starting. They have a point.

Do you even think for yourself anymore? How is this a valid point?

The question if Bailey and Melancon can handle the 8th and 9th innings should have been asked BEFORE THE FRONT OFFICE FUCKING TRADED FOR THEM. AND IN TRADING FOR THEM THE FRONT OFFICE EFFECTIVLY ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. Valentine is just being a dick as usual.

[nvalvo]

That makes me feel better.

Melancon's a groundballer, so he lives and dies by his infield defense. Late in spring training games, when some of the guys getting IF looks aren't any good, he's going to get roughed up a bit.

[soxhop411]

I would expect a rotation announcement by sunday

[Rasputin]

I think Punto is pretty awful, but Ciriaco can't hold his jock.

Punto doesn't have a jock to hold.

[Pumpsie]

Do you even think for yourself anymore? How is this a valid point?

The question if Bailey and Melancon can handle the 8th and 9th innings should have been asked BEFORE THE FRONT OFFICE FUCKING TRADED FOR THEM. AND IN TRADING FOR THEM THE FRONT OFFICE EFFECTIVLY ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. Valentine is just being a dick as usual.

Total nonsense, as usual. Now that they've had these guys in camp and have watched them close-up and personal, and if they doubt they can do it, then it would be ridiculous to go ahead anyway because of previous decisions. Your Valentine hatred is numbing your brain.

[soxhop411]

brianmacp
Daniel Bard said he thinks there might be an announcement as early as Saturday about the makeup of the rotation: http://t.co/qyFaHDkm

[rembrat]

Total nonsense, as usual. Now that they've had these guys in camp and have watched them close-up and personal, and if they doubt they can do it, then it would be ridiculous to go ahead anyway because of previous decisions. Your Valentine hatred is numbing your brain.

You are accusing the front office of trading for players without thoroughly talking to their scouts and or scouting them via video.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

The question if Bailey and Melancon can handle the 8th and 9th innings should have been asked BEFORE THE FRONT OFFICE FUCKING TRADED FOR THEM. AND IN TRADING FOR THEM THE FRONT OFFICE EFFECTIVLY ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. Valentine is just being a dick as usual.

All-caps nonsense aside, this is a valid point.

In fact, I'd expect the starters have been told who they are at this point, and to not to talk about it until a formal announcement has been made -- my speculation is that BobbyV is just being a hyper-competitive jackass in stringing us (and the advance scouts of the Jays) along.

[ThePieholeOfDavidWells]

All-caps nonsense aside, this is a valid point.

In fact, I'd expect the starters have been told who they are at this point, and to not to talk about it until a formal announcement has been made -- my speculation is that BobbyV is just being a hyper-competitive jackass in stringing us (and the advance scouts of the Jays) along.

If that's the case--and it's hard to believe it is--Bard is an excellent actor. I don't think that this makes much sense, though. I know there is a vocal minority around here with strong suspicion of BV, but maybe he just hasn't made a final decision yet. I'd also think that he wants to get input from his staff, talk to BC, etc., before making a decision I don't know why we have to elevate it to conspiracy to fuck with the Blue Jays.

[Edited for clarity.]

Edited by ThePieholeOfDavidWells, 30 March 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

If that's the case--and it's hard to believe it is--Bard is an excellent actor. I don't think that this makes much sense, though. I know there is a vocal minority around here with strong suspicion of BV, but maybe he just hasn't made a final decision yet. I'd also think that he wants to get input from his staff, talk to BC, etc., before making a decision I don't know why we have to elevate it to conspiracy to fuck with the Blue Jays.

Well, considering that will be the first and second games thrown by the 4/5 starters, I don't think it's a conspiracy so much as it's a strategic advantage.

And I do think BobbyV knows exactly who his starters are already, whether or not he's told the guys involved.

[Rasputin]

You are accusing the front office of trading for players without thoroughly talking to their scouts and or scouting them via video.

Actually, I think he's suggesting that they left themselves room to change their mind and may actually have done so.

[koufax37]

Is there anything that would lead you to belive that Punto is a better player than Ciriaco? other than the ability to draw a walk here and there?

I'm going to go by the last seven year sample size. Just go compare numbers a little bit and you will see. While the fun thing to do right now is hate Punto, he is a perfectly acceptable utility infielder and is better at baseball than Ciriaco, March 2012 notwithstanding.

[ThePieholeOfDavidWells]

And I do think BobbyV knows exactly who his starters are already, whether or not he's told the guys involved.

This I agree with. Having been a member of the media, he knows what they want to know and I'm sure he's enjoying having a piece of information that they desperately want.

[koufax37]

I am not worried about Aceves-Melancon-Bailey pitching effectively at the end of games, and I don't think we need to worry about a couple of ground ball runs Melancon gives up in March before deciding if Bard can be allowed to try to develop into a mini-Verlander or not. I still think the "We can't let you start, we need more middle relief!!!!" argument is relatively mind numbing.

I think Bobby already knows what is going on, and I'm 99% sure it has Bard in the rotation, and 90% sure it will be Doubront instead of Aceves. I would expect the announcement to come tomorrow, but it would be a little silly for it to come while Bard has ice on his arm. It would make it seem like today's performance was what counted and Bobby decided without Ben. So the perception of the announcement factors in as well. I don't think they are trying to keep the Blue Jays off balance, and I don't think they are seeing if Melancon can do the job.

[SoxScout]

Melancon has a 2.51 FIP, 3:1 K:BB ratio.

.374 BABIP, 46% LOB% in 8.2 IP....

[Pumpsie]

Actually, I think he's suggesting that they left themselves room to change their mind and may actually have done so.

Correct, Ras. This is an extremely complicated decision with a LOT of moving parts. They basically have to decide what's going to happen with a lot of different pitchers, not just Bard and Aceves. How many can they hang onto and for how long? Who would they lose on May 1st if they're not on the club? Who could they trade, and for what? What other teams have already expressed an interest in which pitchers currently on the staff and could trades be made midseason for them? How do Rich Hill and Dice-K enter into the picture? If Dice-K comes back to the rotation on June 1st, who does he replace? Ditto with Rich Hill. This decision is much more like five-dimensional chess than checkers. Is Bard capable of being a starter to begin the season? Yes, he is. Would that be best for the club? We'll find out how the braintrust answers this question quite soon.

[rembrat]

Why would they change their minds? What happened in 4 weeks that out weighed years of data? Did Valentine not like how Melancon handled the Spring Training environment?

This is the main problem I'm going to have with Valentine. Overthinking. Just stop overthinking and try not to fuck things up. Melancon and Bailey have better than average stuff therefore they will be fine in the later innings, not perfect, but fine. Just fucking stop already.

[Adrian's Dome]

Why would they change their minds? What happened in 4 weeks that out weighed years of data? Did Valentine not like how Melancon handled the Spring Training environment?

This is the main problem I'm going to have with Valentine. Overthinking. Just stop overthinking and try not to fuck things up. Melancon and Bailey have better than average stuff therefore they will be fine in the later innings, not perfect, but fine. Just fucking stop already.

So the easiest decision is obviously the correct one? Is that what you're saying? Is there no reason whatsoever to even so much as think about the roster? Just fuck it all, let's go with our gut and pray for the best, that seems like an awesome way to run a professional ballclub.