184 replies to this topic

[E5 Yaz]

4/20 is about celebrating the greatest facility in the history of sport. It is not about any player, manager, championship, owner or anything else.

Well, it is Hitler's birthday

[Doug Beerabelli]

If Grady isn't there, does this mean Timlin and Williamson will be let on the field?

[Pumpsie]

Well, it is Hitler's birthday

And that's funny.

Springtime For Lucky in Boston.

[EvilEmpire]

Ah, well. He can't show up "for the fans" and "take the high road" at the same time. It's not that simple. He will get cheered and huzzahed and worshiped as Caesar -- which necessarily, and although he wouldn't mean to do it, cast the organization as the evil empire.

This would be very bad.

[dcmissle]

Yup. I first heard about this at the gym early this evening and someone was interviewing CHB and it was high comedy watching him try to tiptoe down the line of simultaneously acknowledging that the Sox seem to stab a lot of people in the back and not antagonize his source and column writer Larry Lucchino. In the end he can do it because he's CHB. Nothing's too low to write and no one's too low to refuse to let them write his column for him.

I support Tito in this.

I'm sure it was side splitting, but pace yourself because this is CHB's spring training. He is writing Tito's book.

With regard to "what are the RS suppose to do here?", the answer is pretty simple: man up on your decisions and the consequences that naturally flow from them. They are just harvesting a crop they planted last November.

Don't act surprised or aggrieved. Try for once not to approach everything with the emotional maturity of a 7 year old boy by wanting everything your way.

If they had taken the high road 5 months ago and dealt with Tito forthrightly, there is little doubt he'd still be hurt and disappointed. But there is a decent chance he would attend. They didn't take that approach, so effing live with it.

[24JoshuaPoint]

That's what I was getting at. I'm very frustrated this is still going on.

Aren't we all. I'm sorry my post on this recent news report made you angry.

[Average Reds]

But who is he supposed to be mad at? LL and JH ?

Yes.

From that article, it seems he is taking them both at face value that they weren't involved.

He may say this, but clearly he doesn't believe it. Nor do I.

So what are they supposed to do to appease him? I don't fault the guy for being pissed about the article, but if he's accepting that Sox ownership/management weren't the sources - what the heck does he want? Why Isn't he going after the Globe or Hohler and demanding their source or at least pissing and moaning about them?

The only thing they could have done to appease him was to act appropriately at the moment the firestorm broke last fall. Instead, they allowed their relative inaction to be interpreted as tacit agreement with those portions of the article.

And yeah, I know that JH made a few comments where he strenuously denied that he or anyone in the ownership group was the source, but that's not how you defuse something like this. If you don't want this to be perceived as an ownership smear job, you come out quickly and you flatly deny the substance of the report. Not that Tito was taking pain medication - everyone knew that - but that this fact would have anything to do with their decision to retain him or not. Further, you talk about how the source for the story was irresponsible and unprofessional to leak speculation about Tito's private life when they clearly were not in a position to know the truth of the matter.

That last sentence is the key part, because if the source was not the ownership group, they would not have been in a position to know the truth about what the ownership group was concerned about. By not specifically disavowing this part of the story, they hung Tito out to dry. And by waiting months to reach out to him - and then for LL to act as if Tito owes them something rather than the other way around - they have shown that they are completely tone deaf on this issue.

Your comments about the Globe and Hohler are somewhat baffling to me, so I won't even address them other than to point out the obvious - Tito didn't work for Hohler, and he (Hohler) wasn't the source for the story.

I just don't see an end game here, and he has clearly continued to play this up in the media. And regardless if he is asked or not, he can certainly say "no comment" or "I have moved on" or whatever - but he's not. Again, what does he want the Sox to do???

There is no end game. As far as I can tell, Tito feels - with some justification - that he was the good soldier for 8 years, was stabbed in the back on the way out and no longer owes it to the ownership group to present a united front on behalf of Red Sox management at a very public celebration of the team's history.

The ownership group has sown the seeds of discord, and they are reaping the whirlwind.

Edit: I could have saved myself a lot of time if I had read dcmissle's post before creating this reply.

Edited by Average Reds, 12 April 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

I'm sure it was side splitting, but pace yourself because this is CHB's spring training. He is writing Tito's book.

With regard to "what are the RS suppose to do here?", the answer is pretty simple: man up on your decisions and the consequences that naturally flow from them. They are just harvesting a crop they planted last November.

Don't act surprised or aggrieved. Try for once not to approach everything with the emotional maturity of a 7 year old boy by wanting everything your way.

If they had taken the high road 5 months ago and dealt with Tito forthrightly, there is little doubt he'd still be hurt and disappointed. But there is a decent chance he would attend. They didn't take that approach, so effing live with it.

Where is the evidence that they did not "deal with Tito forthrightly"?

Basically, this whole thing comes down to the fact that Tito got some bad press on the way out the door, press which included airing a couple of details about his personal life that, if true, probably affected his work as manager. So he's still throwing a hissy fit six months later.

Fine, that's his business and if he doesn't feel like attending the Fenway 100 thing, that's his prerogative as well. I'm not really big on these types of celebrations myself -- they just distract from the season and I probably won't even watch it. Still, I have the feeling that as time goes by, Tito will regret his decision and wish that he had been there.

But I'll just say what I said a few weeks ago. For eight years Terry Francona held one of the best jobs in the world. Sure, it's a demanding job, but he was paid quite generously for it. In fact, he became a multimillionaire as a result and probably could spend the rest of his life on a beach somewhere with no worries if he felt like it. The job and his mostly commendable performance on it made him famous and respected (as well as rich), so much so that he now holds one of the most prominent baseball broadcasting positions in the entire industry, a job he obtained with no prior experience.

And yet, he's still so pissed off about a single piece of negative press -- the source of which was probably not anyone representing the Red Sox in any official capacity -- that he can't attend an event where he is certain to be one of the favorite attractions. To me, that reflects much more poorly on Tito than on the Red Sox or anyone else.

[dcmissle]

Where is the evidence that they did not "deal with Tito forthrightly"?

Basically, this whole thing comes down to the fact that Tito got some bad press on the way out the door, press which included airing a couple of details about his personal life that, if true, probably affected his work as manager. So he's still throwing a hissy fit six months later.

Fine, that's his business and if he doesn't feel like attending the Fenway 100 thing, that's his prerogative as well. I'm not really big on these types of celebrations myself -- they just distract from the season and I probably won't even watch it. Still, I have the feeling that as time goes by, Tito will regret his decision and wish that he had been there.

But I'll just say what I said a few weeks ago. For eight years Terry Francona held one of the best jobs in the world. Sure, it's a demanding job, but he was paid quite generously for it. In fact, he became a multimillionaire as a result and probably could spend the rest of his life on a beach somewhere with no worries if he felt like it. The job and his mostly commendable performance on it made him famous and respected (as well as rich), so much so that he now holds one of the most prominent baseball broadcasting positions in the entire industry, a job he obtained with no prior experience.

And yet, he's still so pissed off about a single piece of negative press -- the source of which was probably not anyone representing the Red Sox in any official capacity -- that he can't attend an event where he is certain to be one of the favorite attractions. To me, that reflects much more poorly on Tito than on the Red Sox or anyone else.

By essentially inviting him to "interview" for his job again, among other things. They didn't want to take the heat for firing him when they plainly wanted him gone. That explains a lot of what went down.

[Number45forever]

If Grady isn't there, does this mean Timlin and Williamson will be let on the field?

This is just top notch, well done.

I couldn't be happier to see Tito telling the ownership where they can stick their Ballpark Party. That said, if the whole band isn't back together for, say, Opening Day 2014 ... to celebrate 10 years ... it will be very upsetting.

[Lynchie]

This is just top notch, well done.

I couldn't be happier to see Tito telling the ownership where they can stick their Ballpark Party. That said, if the whole band isn't back together for, say, Opening Day 2014 ... to celebrate 10 years ... it will be very upsetting.

Same here. Tito deserves an appreciation day for what he gave to this city. To see it happen twice was beyond my wildest dreams.

[trekfan55]

Tito feels hurt, and he has every right to do so.

Yes, he should be out there to receive the biggest cheers on that day, but he simply does not want to, he feels the wounds and they are still too fresh.

He will be on Fenway that Sunday, someone in the PA should point him out and he should get his standing O there.

I have no idea who was the source(s) to the Hohler story, neither do anyone of us. I also have no idea how the conversation went between him and Lucky. I will give him the benefit of the doubt though.

What I do is at least appreciate that the FO did reach out and make some effort to have him there.

[JBill]

I'm glad he spoke his mind, but Tito said he regrets going into detail:

After a follow-up question about his decision not to attend the 100th anniversary celebration at Fenway Park next week, Francona backpedaled a bit on comments he made Wednesday regarding the invitation issued by the Red Sox.

"That came out the other day and I wish I had handled it a little differently," he said. "I think I'm smarter than that. ... But I'm not comfortable going back there. But I wish I would have kept some of the reasons to myself and I'm a little disappointed in myself for that."

http://m.espn.go.com...ed-sox&id=18134

[Savin Hillbilly]

I'm glad he spoke his mind, but Tito said he regrets going into detail:



http://m.espn.go.com...ed-sox&id=18134

I wish reporters would try for some precision in the way they use words. This isn't "backpedaling"--he's not backing off one iota from what he said. He's just saying it would probably have been wiser not to say it.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

I'm glad he spoke his mind, but Tito said he regrets going into detail:

After a follow-up question about his decision not to attend the 100th anniversary celebration at Fenway Park next week, Francona backpedaled a bit on comments he made Wednesday regarding the invitation issued by the Red Sox.

"That came out the other day and I wish I had handled it a little differently," he said. "I think I'm smarter than that. ... But I'm not comfortable going back there. But I wish I would have kept some of the reasons to myself and I'm a little disappointed in myself for that."

http://m.espn.go.com...ed-sox&id=18134

Now he's just playing a childish game. He pours out his bitterness and anger in public, then says, oh gee, I regret saying that, I wish I'd taken the high road. He wants it both ways and there's no way he doesn't know exactly what he's doing. He's not exactly green when it comes to dealing with the media. The reality is, either you take the high road or you don't. I mean, Larry Lucchino hasn't exactly covered himself in glory in this episode, but at least he isn't engaging in this sort of nonsense.

Tito will always have a unique and special place in my Red Sox fan's heart and I've even enjoyed his ESPN work so far. But I'm losing respect for him as a person the longer he keeps this up.

[Harry Hooper]

On his baseball show last night, Mazz discussed Tito's comments on WFAN and the disappearing quotation from the Globe story.

Again, Tito needs to smarten up about his partnership with Iago. The CHB wants to get college tuition money raised for the next 2-3 generations of family by stirring up as much crap as possible.

[PT Sox Fan]

If you are John Henry, do you stroke him a check, and if you are Tito, how big would that check have to be to make you attend? What is the price you would need to be paid to be worshipped by thousands? There must be a break-even point where positive PR makes it worthwhile for the organization. I would also think that Tito would step back and look at the celebration in larger historical context. There will never be another moment like this, and the opportunity to celebrate it with his players (and potentially avoid interaction with the FO) should mean something.

[Rocco Graziosa]

Now he's just playing a childish game. He pours out his bitterness and anger in public, then says, oh gee, I regret saying that, I wish I'd taken the high road. He wants it both ways and there's no way he doesn't know exactly what he's doing. He's not exactly green when it comes to dealing with the media. The reality is, either you take the high road or you don't. I mean, Larry Lucchino hasn't exactly covered himself in glory in this episode, but at least he isn't engaging in this sort of nonsense.

Tito will always have a unique and special place in my Red Sox fan's heart and I've even enjoyed his ESPN work so far. But I'm losing respect for him as a person the longer he keeps this up.

The other thing, to me, thats strange is that Francona seems to want this "feud" to continue. Which to me is strange because at the heat of all this is, to me, the truth. Which is Terry Francona was abusing painkillers to the point where it was concerning to his family and his employer. His employer thought it effected his job performance. Thats fucking embarrassing. If it were me I wouldn't speak on the subject ever.

Does he realize that the first thing people think about when this topic is brought up is "the Red Sox thought Terry Francona was addicted to painkillers"???


Edit: And it doesn't matter whos side your on........maybe you think "those backstabbing snakes in the front office thought Francona was addicted to painkillers and leaked it to the media".......but the meat of the story is still Francona and painkiller abuse.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 13 April 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[BoSoxLady]

I love Tito and really would like to see him attend the celebration.

That said, he and the FO need to get together and put this bullshit to rest, once and for all.

Tito also needs to return whatever the advance is that he received from the Globe for the book he's writing with the CHB. Based upon comments Tito has already made for which he's apologized, no good will come from allowing the CHB to air the dirty laundry in public. The book smacks of revenge. Tito is dealing with the devil. I thought he was smarter than this.

This will not end well.

[Savin Hillbilly]

He's not exactly green when it comes to dealing with the media.

But he's in a position we've never seen him in before, and that maybe he's never been in before. It was always fun watching Tito's press conferences, and a large part of the reason is that Tito came across as a guy with a very low bullshit factor. His natural response to any question seems to be to tell the truth--but this was always tempered by the need to protect and affirm his players. So you got to see two very appealing qualities at work: honesty and loyalty (along with some self-deprecating wit).

Now he's in a situation where the honesty impulse is still at work, but the loyalty impulse isn't there to temper it--quite the opposite. If he's going to resist the temptation to say what's on his mind, it has to be out of regard for his own reputation and image.

[trekfan55]

I love Tito and really would like to see him attend the celebration.

That said, he and the FO need to get together and put this bullshit to rest, once and for all.

Tito also needs to return whatever the advance is that he received from the Globe for the book he's writing with the CHB. Based upon comments Tito has already made for which he's apologized, no good will come from allowing the CHB to air the dirty laundry in public. The book smacks of revenge. Tito is dealing with the devil. I thought he was smarter than this.

This will not end well.

I totally agree with this.

While I'm dying to read a book written by Francona about his tenure with the Sox, we all know the vitriol that will spill out with CHB in charge.

Besides, I feel dirty when I click on one of his links (and I very rarely ever do so) so I really don't know if I can purchase that book.

[dcmissle]

I totally agree with this.

While I'm dying to read a book written by Francona about his tenure with the Sox, we all know the vitriol that will spill out with CHB in charge.

Besides, I feel dirty when I click on one of his links (and I very rarely ever do so) so I really don't know if I can purchase that book.

Will it, though? That's the interesting question Rough Carrigan touched on.

If this book includes full bore spleen venting, then you have to figure CHB will reliquish his retainer as mouthpiece for Larry and the Dentist. Which wouldn't make a lot of sense unless CHB is on the cusp of packing it in with the Globe. It will be interesting to see how he pulls his punches and walks the tightrope.

Francona, I think, needs to let this go. He has more to lose than the front office demons. They are in a whirlpool of suck that has been several years in the making -- and, to be fair, to which Theo made major contributions before leaving for Chicago. On the other hand, the Tito I saw and heard in last year's playoffs has star potential. He should stop diminishing it and let this go.

[Al Zarilla]

I wonder how much a 2 time world series winning manager gets turned on by commentating games though. I know, John Madden and Jon Gruden are examples of guys that had success both ways and love the booth. Madden had the flying bugaboo though. Tito said he thinks he'll get the itch to manage again in a year or two, didn't he?

As a long time fan, the only ex manager I care to see there other than Tito is Johnny Pesky, and Pesky not exactly for managing.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

But he's in a position we've never seen him in before, and that maybe he's never been in before. It was always fun watching Tito's press conferences, and a large part of the reason is that Tito came across as a guy with a very low bullshit factor. His natural response to any question seems to be to tell the truth--but this was always tempered by the need to protect and affirm his players. So you got to see two very appealing qualities at work: honesty and loyalty (along with some self-deprecating wit).

Now he's in a situation where the honesty impulse is still at work, but the loyalty impulse isn't there to temper it--quite the opposite. If he's going to resist the temptation to say what's on his mind, it has to be out of regard for his own reputation and image.

Well, I'm sympathetic to the fact that he's in an unfamiliar position. But his years of experience, I believe, should have given him plenty of preparation to deal with it an i believe it has. He not only had 8 years as manager in Boston where we know what the media is like. Before that he had four years in Philly which had to be even tougher, in a way. The fans and media there are if anything more hostile than in New England and he presided over a losing team every year.

Of course, he had 10 years as a Major League player before that. And now, he is, himself, a member of the media. So, either he's never learned anything from his vast experience with the media, or he knows exactly what he's doing. I'm sure there's a gray area in there somehwere, but it's not too gray.

Edited by Gene Conleys Plane Ticket, 13 April 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Gambler7]

FYI Gresh and Zo just said on 98.5 Schilling spoke with someone (missed the name) who just tweeted that Schilling just got the invitation for the 100th Anniversary event today.

Edit: Found it, it was Adam Jones, ESPNBoston

Adam Jones ‏ @adamjonesESPN
Just spoke to Curt Schilling. Says he just got his invite to the 100th anniversary of Fenway Park today and that he likely can't go.

Edited by Gambler7, 13 April 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[RedOctober3829]

Schilling said he just got his invitation to the 100-year celebration a few days ago. Seriously? They are botching this thing so badly.

[E5 Yaz]

Schilling said he just got his invitation to the 100-year celebration a few days ago. Seriously? They are botching this thing so badly.

Ed Sprague and his wife were told their invitation was rescinded

[dcmissle]

FYI Gresh and Zo just said on 98.5 Schilling spoke with someone (missed the name) who just tweeted that Schilling just got the invitation for the 100th Anniversary event today.

Edit: Found it, it was Adam Jones, ESPNBoston

LMAO ... that's like the Carlton Fisk contract renewal sent too late. For the kids out there, wiki elaborates --

Fisk was reportedly among a group of several Red Sox players who lobbied Boston management for players to be paid what they deserved, which made him none too popular with Haywood Sullivan, the Boston general manager. When Fisk's contract expired at the end of the 1980 season, Sullivan in fact mailed him a new contract, but put it in the mail one day after the contractual deadline. As a result, Fisk was technically a free agent and he signed a $3.5 million deal with the Chicago White Sox, beginning with the 1981 season.

This crap is in our DNA.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Schilling said he just got his invitation to the 100-year celebration a few days ago. Seriously? They are botching this thing so badly.

And the reason we believe anything Schilling says is, what, again?

[E5 Yaz]

And the reason we believe anything Schilling says is, what, again?

Because not everyone drank the Kool-Aid?

[RedOctober3829]

And the reason we believe anything Schilling says is, what, again?

Why the hell would he lie about something like that?

[The Allented Mr Ripley]

LMAO ... that's like the Carlton Fisk contract renewal sent too late

Well, it's a good bet Fisk's contract was mailed late on purpose.

Edited by The Allented Mr Ripley, 13 April 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Why the hell would he lie about something like that?

I don't know. Why would he lie about talking to players on the Red Sox during spring training who told him things were "going bad"? I have no idea, either, but he almost certainly did.

[dcmissle]

Well, it's a good bet Fisk's contract was mailed late on purpose.

And you think this invite wasn't? Given the Dentist's flair with these sorts of things, it's a good bet those invitations were sent out with great fanfare on the finest stationary. Top shelf.

This was probably chin music. Which makes this collection of individuals -- Lucky, the Dentist, Bobby V. -- highly entertaining. They appear pyschologically incapable of letting the smallest thing slide

[Lynchie]

And the reason we believe anything Schilling says is, what, again?

He tells it like he sees it. I may not always like what I hear but I do not believe he is a liar.