184 replies to this topic

[Harry Hooper]

What does this have to do with anything? All this means to me is that Hohler contacted the medical people hoping they would open up if he used CHB's name.

You'll need to listen to the {hopefully} archived segment on 98.5.

[Oil Can Dan]

Because they've done this before at multiple occasions, most notably in 2005 which led to their GM quitting for 5 months due to constant media leaks?

It's not some huge leap of logic to make here. It's on JWH and Lucky because they've done it before and have shown to have hair-triggers when it comes to deflecting blame upon others.

Oh I see. So because *something* happened a certain way six years prior then it simply must have happened the same way six years later. Got it. And it certainly couldn't have been Theo because....well, just because.

I'll move along now.

[Dogman2]

His statement makes perfect sense in talking about Henry, it is strictly business with him which is why he didn't even bother calling Tito until February. If Henry cared about the personal side of things he would have called him that day. Now that Tito is not showing up it is hurting his brand and potentially costing him money.

Now if you want to argue that the reason they threw Francona under the bus was because they took his "FO didn't ahve my back" comments personally I can accept that.

That's what I was getting at. I'm very frustrated this is still going on.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Oh I see. So because *something* happened a certain way six years prior then it simply must have happened the same way six years later. Got it. And it certainly couldn't have been Theo because....well, just because.

I'll move along now.

Same owners, same pattern, and it happened to Theo in 2005.

So yeah, I'm pretty comfortable in thinking they're at their same games again.

[mauidano]

Tito can do whatever he wants to do or not do. He's not obligated to show up except on april 22 for the ESPN game. Enough discussion already. Bridges have been burned. There will come a time when this wound heals but apparently not now. Anyone remember how poorly Yogi Berra was treated by the Yankees for awhile? Let's move forward and not have this whole thing be about Tito and ownership.

[TheoShmeo]

As i mentioned above, their letting the story sit for a few days before denying they had anything to do with it is what stinks to me. Had they categorically denied that they had anything to do with that story the day it came out, I might agree with you, that they didnt' have anything to do with it.

I dunno. Had they issued some kind of denial when that story hit the fan, I think it would have played like Tricky Dick Nixon's "I am not a crook." A lot of people would have said "methinks thou dost protest too much...."

I think they were in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. The other complicating factors are that there was probably some truth to the story re Tito's drug use, they probably knew that and focusing on the conversation on whether they were the leak would have been seen as making a terrible story for Tito all about them.

[Worst Trade Evah]

I'd have to think that we'd have a lot fewer chats with people like Ben Cherington if we did this.

I don't really think this is a consideration, but even if it were, my feeling is so what? Cherington's appearance on SoSH was about as much of a dud as any chat I can recall. He offered nothing of interest, and didn't even write well. A great get by the mods, but the guest just didn't deliver much.

In general, I'm pretty down on the new baseball ops, but I'm willing to see what happens. It just annoys me that we keep looking to the Rays for interesting innovation and better ways of working. It's hard for me to escape the feeling that we're left with the guy who was ultimately, what? 3rd on Theo's depth chart? Apparently he's the plodder who managed not to get hired away to a more desirable job sooner. At any rate, if he boycotts SoSH because we like Tito, I don't think we'll really feel the loss.

I'm glad Tito is kind of forcing the issue, because ownership needs to confront this perception -- at least -- that they destroy everyone who leaves town. Let's hope the next guy who is chased out of Boston has cause to appreciate that.

Edited by Worst Trade Evah, 11 April 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[dcmissle]

Tito can do whatever he wants to do or not do. He's not obligated to show up except on april 22 for the ESPN game. Enough discussion already. Bridges have been burned. There will come a time when this wound heals but apparently not now. Anyone remember how poorly Yogi Berra was treated by the Yankees for awhile? Let's move forward and not have this whole thing be about Tito and ownership.

Generally, nobody wins in these things and almost everyone comes to regret them. Relatively recent local example -- Bob Kraft and Bill Parcells.

I hope for Tito's sake that he lets it go and doesn't delve into this much down the road. He has too much going for him, and it's ultimately beneath him.

I have zero confidence that the RS will follow that course. It's in the team's DNA. They were spinning like crazy before the current regime -- when Harrington and Duquette used Will McDonough as their pit bull. And Lucky made his bones as a lawyer in DC, where this crap is raised to an art form. The Dentist is back in the saddle. So I suspect it will raise its head again as soon as the need for a new fall guy materializes.

[Savin Hillbilly]

This is exactly why Tito's not coming. He doesn't want to distract from the birthday party, nor does he want to serve as the good guy while fans boo players and the current manager.

That's a nice thought, and a plausible one, but if that's his real reason why doesn't he just say so, instead of saying things that fuel discussions like this one?

[twothousandone]

And the last picture that was painted of him is always the one not easily forgotten.

I've forgotten it. Just as I "forgot" that Garciaparra asked to be shipped out.

If/when Francona returns, I'll seek out the clip, and I have no doubt I'll wish I could have been there to thank him for the good years, just as I reacted when Garciaparra came back. If that's this season or in 10 years, it'll be the same (except we saw Francona in September). Do whatever you want, Tito. I've been fired, and never really been able to stick it to them. If you can and want to, go right ahead.

[Reverend]

I respect his choice, but he's not the bigger man unless he acts like the bigger man.

He doesn't want to be there. He's a man. So he's not going. I think from his point of view, it's as simple as that.

I think many people here often do things they don't want to. But I also think that when they don't have to, they often don't do things they don't want to.

The exception is if you're doing something you don't want to for other people. So who would he be doing it for? The fans? For me?

I know that I don't need him to do it for me. I don't want him to do it for me. I understand.

[Laser Show]

Well after today's spectacle, I'm starting the "We want Tito" chant at the home opener too.

[soxfan121]

(1)I'm not making anything up. You're reading far more into what I said than is warranted. (2)Tito denied that THE PILL USAGE HAD BECOME A PROBLEM OR WAS AFFECTING HIS JOB. No one denied he was taking painkillers, his physical ailments were well known to all.

(3)Red Sox sources means front office sources...do you really think Hohler talked to Pookie Jackson for his story? He talked to many people in the organization, (4)but there's very little doubt that people in the front office and operations played a major part in him getting the story in the first place.\

1. You're not the only person to make that claim, just the only one to do it in a sentence that was easily quotable.

2. Sorry - you're free to believe that. But I don't. It's not plausible that his adult children, who certainly know more about him than anyone, were so concerned they approached him but "it wasn't a problem". YMMV and this is close to V&N territory, but no one ever says "I have a problem" without a family member noticing that problem first. Guy deserves his health - he almost gave his life more than once for this team and we're all grateful - but let's not gallop to conclusions we can't possible make. All I'm saying is that Terry admitted to Hohler that Terry's kids were concerned AND a "team source" also expressed concern. So, more than one person was concerned. Again - it shouldn't have been printed, but that's not the issue.

3. I'm on record with this from almost the beginning - the source on the pills is most likely someone who saw Terry every single day and probably someone with great personal affection for Terry. I don't think Ownership (H/W/L) is that involved (to have the knowledge that usage "increased") and I'm hopeful they aren't stupid enough to leak private medical information about an employee, as that's against the law. For similar reasons, I doubt the medical staff were Hohler's source.

The strength & conditioning staff? The guys who took a lot of public heat for the team being out of shape and were eventually fired? That's as good a guess as I can give you. But when I run Occam's Razor on the "who gave Hohler the info that Tito's pill usage went up and it might have affected him personally & professionally?" my suspect list never includes H/W/L and is focused on people who saw him every day (players, staff) and people who might be looking to deflect blame from themselves (players, staff).

4. You have no facts that back that up. I do believe that what you have is confirmation bias; you love Tito, you distrust ownership and you're inclined to believe the former over the latter. And I do admit - the former is more likable than the latter. But let's not mistake your feelings for facts.

Fact: Hohler got the anonymous allegation of pill usage "affecting job performance" from TEAM SOURCE (not front office source - that is speculation)
Fact: Terry Francona confirmed that he had been approached by his adult children with concerns about his pill usage.

Lastly: Fuck Lucchino. Tone-deaf doesn't even begin to describe how dumb this whole thing was, especially because Larry knows TF is writing a book with CHB and this is just more grist for the mill. Good god, this is the single dumbest thing LL has done during his entire baseball career. Call, ask Tito to come, say "that's too bad" when he declines, hang up the phone. Don't argue with him, you stupid shit!

That's what I was getting at. I'm very frustrated this is still going on.

Holy shit - you and me both. That the Red Sox Ownership keeps stepping on it's collective dick as it regards Terry Francona is getting very irritating. I'm usually an ownership shill but even I won't defend them on this latest mis-step. Stupid, stupid, stupid Larry.

Edited by soxfan121, 11 April 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[Reverend]

Well after today's spectacle, I'm starting the "We want Tito" chant at the home opener too.

Good man; I endorse this, but with a caveat: tweak it so that it's not something where the FO can say, "See, you should have come," or hold any such sentiment. So something like, "We love Tito" or just "Tito!" or maybe something else. Just to be clear.

I don't follow the personalities of the FO as closely as some--or, perhaps, many--I still think they fouled this up one way or another and like the idea of a clear, pure pro-Tito sentiment going out.

[Guapos Toenails]

I guess I shouldn't have told Hohler about Tito's quirky little habit of coming into the vending rooms after games to drink the old hotdog water. He would wink and call it his "pain medication".

Six months too late?

[Laser Show]

Good man; I endorse this, but with a caveat: tweak it so that it's not something where the FO can say, "See, you should have come," or hold any such sentiment. So something like, "We love Tito" or just "Tito!" or maybe something else. Just to be clear.

I don't follow the personalities of the FO as closely as some--or, perhaps, many--I still think they fouled this up one way or another and like the idea of a clear, pure pro-Tito sentiment going out.

I had thought that as well. Hopefully the crowd is feeling particularly spirited.

[The Gray Eagle]

So Grady Little will be at this ceremony but Francona won't? That alone makes it an utter farce. This organization can't stop botching eveything they do, and it's been going on for quite a while now.

Inviting past managers is moronic if it's only going to be the chumps and boobs who show up, and the one good one doesn't.

[cornwalls@6]

LL seems pathologically incapable of taking the high road. Ever. As the front man for the ownership group, he has fucked this up 6 ways to sunday from day one. Smirky, non-denial denials of the story itself intially, doing nothing over the winter to mend any fences with Tito, and now his laughable arrogance and contentiousness in this latest phone conversation between the two. And in the process he has taken a big shit all over the 100 year birthday party that he has been actively promoting for almost 2 years. Because other than the Bruins playoff games, this will be the 24/7 focus of every mediot in this town until the 20th. To say nothing of what could be a somewhat negative, if not hostile, crowd that day. I don't question his prowess and value as bad cop/executive, but my god his head has been 100 miles up his ass on this.

[genivive]

Fenway Park's 100th anniversary = Tito's revenge....




Paybacks are always hell

[Jinhocho]

Same owners, same pattern, and it happened to Theo in 2005.

So yeah, I'm pretty comfortable in thinking they're at their same games again.

Nails it. LL and the Dentist have an MO. It is not like its Mother Teresa and Saint Francis handling this stuff for the sox. LL won his battle with Theo. Theo's gone, the manager Theo supported is gone, and we now get to see whats its like when LL runs the Boston Red Sox.

[Stu Nahan]

Ownership looks bad here. Tito could take one for the fans, but I understand his point of view. They smeared him on the way out the door, and they want him to bail them out. The Sox, at 1-5, come home and compound the problem by making Francona a martyr. Well done. It's almost comical discussing how badly things have gone since 9/1/11.

[dcmissle]

LL seems pathologically incapable of taking the high road. Ever. As the front man for the ownership group, he has fucked this up 6 ways to sunday from day one. Smirky, non-denial denials of the story itself intially, doing nothing over the winter to mend any fences with Tito, and now his laughable arrogance and contentiousness in this latest phone conversation between the two. And in the process he has taken a big shit all over the 100 year birthday party that he has been actively promoting for almost 2 years. Because other than the Bruins playoff games, this will be the 24/7 focus of every mediot in this town until the 20th. To say nothing of what could be a somewhat negative, if not hostile, crowd that day. I don't question his prowess and value as bad cop/executive, but my god his head has been 100 miles up his ass on this.

And the juxtaposition of taking the high road in a public statement yet busting Tito's balls on the matter privately is the cherry on the effing sundae. That would be sociopathology.

[BelgianSoxFan]

As great as Francona has been for the Red Sox from 2004-2009, but he was terrible in 2011. He is not to blame for everything that went wrong, but managers are held accountable for the performance of their team in baseball and outside of it. I understand that Francona is pissed about being fired, hopefully he will get over it with time. He seems to have a great job now, I thank him for what he did. I wish him well, but let us not pretend he has been all class about his firing either.

I always felt that the best explanation about the Hohler story is that all this stuff was very well known, and when the press did not have to remain friends with Francona, they could finally release it. Reporting any of this stuff during a season would be career suicide in Boston (not in NY though). Francona is a public figure, it comes with the territory. He has been compensated for it.

They invited everyone to the 100 year anniversary, the good and the bad. They have little control over who shows up. They did not chose Grady Little over Francona. Francona has every right not to show up, I am sure it will be one hell of a party and he will miss out if he doesn't. I hope most fans will be happy to celebrate. I wish I could be there, there are plenty of other occasions to boo the team.

[RedOctober3829]

“Larry called me yesterday,’’ Francona said Tuesday. “I was in a phone store in Arizona. I had three people standing around me. I was at a little bit of a disadvantage. He got a little perturbed at me, telling me I was being unfair to them. I called him back last night and left him a message. He called me back and we ended up getting into an argument. I just feel like someone in the organization went out of their way to hurt me and the more we talked I realized we’re just not on the same wavelength. They’re probably better off going forth and leaving me out of it.’’

http://www.boston.co...ys_celebration/

Francona is totally in the right here. Someone did go out of their way to portray him as the bad guy. If Lucky did get all defensive and it turned into an argument, then there's even more evidence in my view that either he was behind it or knows who is. It's bullshit that these slimeballs leaked the info in the first place and I'm glad Tito is standing up for himself. The whole organization should be ashamed of themselves and with this start the natives are undeniably restless. With the next 3 series against the 3 best teams in the AL, it could get a lot worse before it gets better.

Edited by RedOctober3829, 11 April 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[JBill]

That's weird, when I read the Globe story earlier, there was a section where Tito said that when he talked to Larry and told him about his earlier convo with Henry and how Henry swore they would try to find out who was behind the smears, Larry said he hadn't spoken to Henry about it. And Tito said something like "then how important could it be?"

It's no longer part of the story. Strange.

ESPN still has it:

"For me to go back and start waving and hugging, I'm just not comfortable doing that. I made it pretty clear to John Henry. When I told Larry that, he said, 'Well, I haven't talked to John about it.' I said, well then how (expletive) important could it be?

The Globe article now just has:

For me to go back and start waving and hugging, I’m just not comfortable doing that. I made it pretty clear to John Henry.

Edited by JBill, 11 April 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[brs3]

I hope Terry Francona never returns to Fenway unless it is as the Red Sox manager. I'm convinced there will be booing if he ever did, and that would be the worst thing to ever see as a Sox fan. If Fenway can loudly boo a twice-removed-from-the-MFY Johnny Damon(WAY different situation, but the point stands), there's no reason a Fenway crowd wouldn't boo Terry Francona. Especially as the team puts the publicity spotlight on his decision to not return for a celebration. Think of the few folks here who are saying he 'owes it' to the fans. CHB and the rest of the Globe will ride that until it becomes 'he's too good for us, eh?' and then he's disliked.

The Red Sox FO never loses a PR war.

[RGREELEY33]

http://www.boston.co...ys_celebration/

Francona is totally in the right here. Someone did go out of their way to portray him as the bad guy. If Lucky did get all defensive and it turned into an argument, then there's even more evidence in my view that either he was behind it or knows who is. It's bullshit that these slimeballs leaked the info in the first place and I'm glad Tito is standing up for himself. The whole organization should be ashamed of themselves and with this start the natives are undeniably restless. With the next 3 series against the 3 best teams in the AL, it could get a lot worse before it gets better.

There is no arguing the fact that LL is a dick in general, but what are the Red Sox required to do here? Francona is the guy who won't let it go, says himself in the Shaughnessy article that JH and LL have made it clear they had nothing to do with the Globe article (and he seems to believe them), but wants some sort of investigation by the Sox to weed out the ne'er-do-wells? I don't get it. What kind of resolution is he looking for? They invited him to the ceremony, JH reached out to him when he heard he was pissed, LL has reached out to him - and nothing has been good enough, and he has been very open about sharing details of those convos making the Sox ownership look bad in a very purposeful manner.

To me, he seems very bitter about losing his job and being labeled (correctly IMO) as one of the root causes of all of the clubhouse tumult last year. He lost the team, they choked, he got fired. The Globe story was certainly way over the line, but if it was a clubhouse guy or medical staff guy that leaked it, what the hell does he want done? It seems to me he is playing this up to help protect his legacy and get the fans to forget that he did a horrible job at his job in 2011 and deserved to be fired. I will always love the guy and all, but enough is enough.

[Worst Trade Evah]

I hope Terry Francona never returns to Fenway unless it is as the Red Sox manager. I'm convinced there will be booing if he ever did, and that would be the worst thing to ever see as a Sox fan. If Fenway can loudly boo a twice-removed-from-the-MFY Johnny Damon(WAY different situation, but the point stands), there's no reason a Fenway crowd wouldn't boo Terry Francona. Especially as the team puts the publicity spotlight on his decision to not return for a celebration. Think of the few folks here who are saying he 'owes it' to the fans. CHB and the rest of the Globe will ride that until it becomes 'he's too good for us, eh?' and then he's disliked.

The Red Sox FO never loses a PR war.

$50 to the Jimmy Fund says that whenever Francona returns to Fenway he will not be booed.

[brs3]

To me, he seems very bitter about losing his job and being labeled (correctly IMO) as one of the root causes of all of the clubhouse tumult last year. He lost the team, they choked, he got fired. The Globe story was certainly way over the line, but if it was a clubhouse guy or medical staff guy that leaked it, what the hell does he want done? It seems to me he is playing this up to help protect his legacy and get the fans to forget that he did a horrible job at his job in 2011 and deserved to be fired. I will always love the guy and all, but enough is enough.

$50 to the Jimmy Fund says that whenever Francona returns to Fenway he will not be booed.

The bold part will continue to fester, and it'll be an easy re-hash for the beat writers. Since it'll be years before he returns, as a guest or an opposing manager, there's no reason to think the focus will be on his departure. Especially if he maintains his attitude.

I'll be happy as hell if I'm wrong, but I don't have much faith in the crowd that makes up Fenway nightly.

[HriniakPosterChild]

$50 to the Jimmy Fund says that whenever Francona returns to Fenway he will not be booed.

The man could come back to Fenway in pinstripes and he wouldn't be booed (well, not until he came out of the dugout to argue with an umpire.)

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

For those who think Tito should just get over it... it just happened. This is the first home game since he was fired/run out of town/humiliated.

So he is supposed to walk out on to the field all Golly-Gee and act like he wasn't just handed his ass last season?

I can see if this was 3 years after the fact. The wound is too fresh. Let it friggin heal a bit.

[Average Reds]

There is no arguing the fact that LL is a dick in general, but what are the Red Sox required to do here? Francona is the guy who won't let it go, says himself in the Shaughnessy article that JH and LL have made it clear they had nothing to do with the Globe article (and he seems to believe them), but wants some sort of investigation by the Sox to weed out the ne'er-do-wells? I don't get it. What kind of resolution is he looking for? They invited him to the ceremony, JH reached out to him when he heard he was pissed, LL has reached out to him - and nothing has been good enough, and he has been very open about sharing details of those convos making the Sox ownership look bad in a very purposeful manner.

To me, he seems very bitter about losing his job and being labeled (correctly IMO) as one of the root causes of all of the clubhouse tumult last year. He lost the team, they choked, he got fired. The Globe story was certainly way over the line, but if it was a clubhouse guy or medical staff guy that leaked it, what the hell does he want done? It seems to me he is playing this up to help protect his legacy and get the fans to forget that he did a horrible job at his job in 2011 and deserved to be fired. I will always love the guy and all, but enough is enough.

I'm sorry - this is just ridiculous.

He wasn't mad at being labeled as the cause of the clubhouse problems - he was (and is) mad at being smeared as having his personal life fall apart and his professional competence questioned because it was implied that he might have a drug problem.

It's been 6+ months since the story ran. John Henry reached out to him only recently. LL apparently chewed him out over not coming back, and you think he should just get over it?

He's not getting over it. Nor should he.

[OBPercent1]

So Grady Little will be at this ceremony but Francona won't? That alone makes it an utter farce. This organization can't stop botching eveything they do, and it's been going on for quite a while now.

Inviting past managers is moronic if it's only going to be the chumps and boobs who show up, and the one good one doesn't.

Grady Will NOT be at the ceremony

[E5 Yaz]

Grady Will NOT be at the ceremony

Still looking for an explanation about why he was let go, eh?

Edited by E5 Yaz, 11 April 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[terrynever]

The man could come back to Fenway in pinstripes and he wouldn't be booed (well, not until he came out of the dugout to argue with an umpire.)

Irrelevent quibble on my part: Yanks don't wear pinstripes on the road.

[RGREELEY33]

I'm sorry - this is just ridiculous.

He wasn't mad at being labeled as the cause of the clubhouse problems - he was (and is) mad at being smeared as having his personal life fall apart and his professional competence questioned because it was implied that he might have a drug problem.

It's been 6+ months since the story ran. John Henry reached out to him only recently. LL apparently chewed him out over not coming back, and you think he should just get over it?

He's not getting over it. Nor should he.

But who is he supposed to be mad at? LL and JH ? From that article, it seems he is taking them both at face value that they weren't involved. So what are they supposed to do to appease him? I don't fault the guy for being pissed about the article, but if he's accepting that Sox ownership/management weren't the sources - what the heck does he want? Why Isn't he going after the Globe or Hohler and demanding their source or at least pissing and moaning about them? I just don't see an end game here, and he has clearly continued to play this up in the media. And regardless if he is asked or not, he can certainly say "no comment" or "I have moved on" or whatever - but he's not. Again, what does he want the Sox to do???

[Dick Pole Upside]

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I think Tito looks pretty small by publicly rejecting two private invitations.

I know it's how he feels, and he believes he's acting on principle, which I understand. He's obviously justified in feeling this way.

But everyone knows the FO is a bunch of insensitive pricks, whether Tito attends or not. That doesn't change one way or another.

(It may not matter to him, but) Tito could've been King of Kings. There will be stiffs and superstars in attendance... heels and Hall of Famers. But there would only be one... ONE... living manager of the local nine that brought a championship to Boston.

I've thought of the HOFers that could be in attendance.... Doerr... Yaz... Pudge... Jim Ed.... even Boggs... stars such as Looie, Dewey, Freddie, Nomar and Gentleman Jim. Future HOFers like Schill and.... Pedro.

Tito would've trumped them all, in my opinion, front office be damned. And the fans would have acknowledged this and voted with their lungs and hands.

For the guys arguing about what Tito and Lucky did/did not say, we have no idea, and are relying on an account that Tito gave to an absolute shit stain in Shaughnessy, his own hired Hit Man. This perhaps disappoints me most, that Tito would stoop to this petty low by shivving the team via Shaughnessy.

Very sad.

Edited by Dick Pole Upside, 11 April 2012 - 08:21 PM.

[OnWisc]

I hope Terry Francona never returns to Fenway unless it is as the Red Sox manager. I'm convinced there will be booing if he ever did, and that would be the worst thing to ever see as a Sox fan. If Fenway can loudly boo a twice-removed-from-the-MFY Johnny Damon(WAY different situation, but the point stands), there's no reason a Fenway crowd wouldn't boo Terry Francona. Especially as the team puts the publicity spotlight on his decision to not return for a celebration. Think of the few folks here who are saying he 'owes it' to the fans. CHB and the rest of the Globe will ride that until it becomes 'he's too good for us, eh?' and then he's disliked.

The Red Sox FO never loses a PR war.

The way this team and organization look right now, if Tito showed up not only would he not get booed, but he would potentially get the loudest ovation of anybody.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Let me get this straight, he won two World Series with the Sox, will never have to buy a drink in any bar or restaurant that a Red Sox fan is in World wide, has been cheered by crowds of tens of thousands while on duck boats and in ballparks, and he is giong to regret not showing up for a dog and pony show to get a standing ovation at Fenway?

He's going to be "Thanked" by fans for the rest of his life, I don't think he is going to regret missing the 100th anniversary of Fenway.

Since I was the one who suggested this, let me respond.

If you think this is a dog and pony show, you are probably right. However, I would think that getting together with every living member of the Red Sox is more than that. Not just to be with the players but also the people who have spent much of their lives working in the park.

I've never been asked to participate in anything like this, but I would think that it is kind of like Ted Williams showing up for the 1999 all-star game. Players are still talking about that moment.

[Dogman2]

I've never been asked to participate in anything like this, but I would think that it is kind of like Ted Williams showing up for the 1999 all-star game. Players are still talking about that moment.

Why would you be asked?

[Buzzkill Pauley]

The way this team and organization look right now, if Tito showed up not only would he not get booed, but he would potentially get the loudest ovation of anybody.

Abso-fricking-lutely.

I can't recall any time Tito ever said anything against his team or any specific players -- all his fire and vitriol has been directed against Henry and Lucchino of Fenway Sports Group LLC. That distinction makes a huge difference, and is why Tito would never be booed at Fenway. Doesn't matter if he was effective or not in his last season here. He managed to win 2 World Series for the Boston Red Sox -- the only titles in living memory -- while orchestrating comebacks from 0-3 against the MFY's in 2004 and 1-3 against CLE in 2007. His appearance would, and should, bring the house down.

Of course, nothing could rock Fenway like Dave Roberts and Bill Mueller walking out together while "The Steal" starts playing on the jumbotron. But that belongs in a whole other universe.

[mr_smith02]

The way this team and organization look right now, if Tito showed up not only would he not get booed, but he would potentially get the loudest ovation of anybody.

It would take an absolute imbecile to boo Francona...an absolute entitled imbecile.

[Rudy Pemberton]

If you think this is a dog and pony show, you are probably right. However, I would think that getting together with every living member of the Red Sox is more than that. Not just to be with the players but also the people who have spent much of their lives working in the park.

I have to assume that Manny, Clemens, and Damon, to name a few, will not be there, right? Also, I would think that Urbina is a long shot.

[Rough Carrigan]

Do we have to go through this again?

If ownership tells Person X to talk to Hohler about something, then Hohler can claim it didn't come from ownership and ownership can claim they didn't talk to the reporter ... and they're both right.

Yup. I first heard about this at the gym early this evening and someone was interviewing CHB and it was high comedy watching him try to tiptoe down the line of simultaneously acknowledging that the Sox seem to stab a lot of people in the back and not antagonize his source and column writer Larry Lucchino. In the end he can do it because he's CHB. Nothing's too low to write and no one's too low to refuse to let them write his column for him.

I support Tito in this.

Edited by Rough Carrigan, 11 April 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[Foulkey Reese]

It would take an absolute imbecile to boo Francona...an absolute entitled imbecile.

People booed Keith Foulke within a half year of the Red Sox winning their first world series in 87 years after he was one of the 2-3 post-season MVPs. Plenty of morons will boo Francona.

Edited by Foulkey Reese, 11 April 2012 - 09:02 PM.

[joyofsox]

It would take an absolute imbecile to boo Francona...an absolute entitled imbecile.

I feel that way about the people who booed Ortiz. Hard to believe, but it has happened several (many?) times since 2004.

[mr_smith02]

People booed Keith Foulke within a half year of the Red Sox winning their first world series in 87 years after he was one of the 2-3 post-season MVPs. Plenty of morons will boo Francona.

Oh, I did not say people would not boo...I was just clearly defining what type of person would boo. Entitled imbeciles boo people like Foulke, Ortiz and Francona.

[Sille Skrub]

Considering the way he was Hohler'ed out of town, I don't think Francona would ever get booed in Fenway Park. There are jackasses everywhere, but the cheers would be so loud that nobody would hear them.

Good for Tito. He doesn't owe anybody anything. If I were him, I'd also tell current ownership to stick it.

4/20 is about celebrating the greatest facility in the history of sport. It is not about any player, manager, championship, owner or anything else. You can celebrate the 100th anniversary of Fenway Park without Terry Francona.

There will be a time and place to cheer Tito again in Fenway. It may not happen this year (or under this ownership), but it will happen.

4/20 is just not the time nor place.

[Sille Skrub]

breaking out, btw...

[Pumpsie]

I'm glad that Tito won't be there on the 20th. (I'm also glad that Grady won't be there.) It'll seem odd for sure, but Tito made the right decision here. If this board is any indication, there will be fewer fights going on in the stands.