403 replies to this topic

[dcdrew10]

of course he would backup... but what would it cost? and why?

Somehow I don't see Brady being too keen on the idea of running the Wildcat and I really don't see how Tebow can be a back-up when he struggles to run anything beyond the high school/college style option. Someone must be hitting the hash pipe hard.

[Mystic Merlin]

Yeah, I don't see where he fits into the mix, unless he's going to become some sort of H-Back. They have three QBs, and no one but Tom Brady - when healthy - is throwing passes on this team.

[soxhop411]

Somehow I don't see Brady being too keen on the idea of running the Wildcat and I really don't see how Tebow can be a back-up when he struggles to run anything beyond the high school/college style option. Someone must be hitting the hash pipe hard.

unless tebow backups until brady leaves/retires, and brady mentors Tebow and helps him pass better?

[Salva135]

I'm assuming that's just speculation based on the fact that McDaniels was the one who drafted him, and could be interested in finding a use for him? Either way, I am not in favor of bringing in anyone who gives the CS an incentive to take the ball out of Brady's hands at any point in time.

[soxhop411]

ESPN will explode if this actually happens

[Reverend]

Yeah, I don't see where he fits into the mix, unless he's going to become some sort of H-Back. They have three QBs, and no one but Tom Brady - when healthy - is throwing passes on this team.

If he has any ability to catch at all, Tebow in the back field with Gronk and Sweet Leaf in a 2TE set and Welker no mean blocker himself would be an unbelievably versatile heavy set that could pass or run and offer an incredible range of pass protection/receiver combinations--I'm working on the assumption that a guy who can play QB can pick up assignments, which seems fair.

Nothing's ever guaranteed, but the upside is Mad Scientist Belichick discovering a whole new element.

[axx]

The comedy alone would make a Tebow-to-Patriots deal worth it.

Edit: How's this for ironic? The Pats play SF, Denver, Tenn and Arizona (along with Miami). Going to be tough to avoid Peyton.

Edited by axx, 17 March 2012 - 05:34 PM.

[soxfan121]

If he has any ability to catch at all, Tebow in the back field with Gronk and Sweet Leaf in a 2TE set and Welker no mean blocker himself would be an unbelievably versatile heavy set that could pass or run and offer an incredible range of pass protection/receiver combinations--I'm working on the assumption that a guy who can play QB can pick up assignments, which seems fair.

Nothing's ever guaranteed, but the upside is Mad Scientist Belichick discovering a whole new element.

Priapism. The short yardage scenarios alone; if there is one thing that Tebow did at an unquestionably all-star level, it is short yardage/goaline, ESPECIALLY if he's not the one throwing the ball most of the time. The set Rev speculates on above would be really fucking hard to stop.

[maufman]

Remember, BB had a very high-profile North End dinner with Tebow shortly before the 2010 draft. Most folks here thought BB was just doing a favor for Urban Meyer. Maybe not.

(null)

[dbn]

If the Superbowl proved anything it's that the league has figured out the Patriots offense. Obtaining Tebow will allow them to convert to a wing-T. If they can get him on the cheap, it's a no-brainer.

[edit: ... and what shape does the "T" remind you of? Think about it. This CAN'T be a coincidence.]

Edited by dbn, 17 March 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

I'm assuming that's just speculation based on the fact that McDaniels was the one who drafted him, and could be interested in finding a use for him? Either way, I am not in favor of bringing in anyone who gives the CS an incentive to take the ball out of Brady's hands at any point in time.

Tebow taking a series every half giving Brady fewer hits per game extending his career. Not the worst idea ever.

Giving opposing defenses something else to game plan for is a plus.

Endless talk show drama.

Count me in.

Edited by PayrodsFirstClutchHit, 17 March 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[dcmissle]

This is just a cruel effort to put Shelter on suicide watch next to Vitale (after last night's Duke loss). If last year's playoffs proved anything, it is that Tebow cannot play QB at a high level in the NFL, now or in the forseeable future.


EDIT. Not to mention, are the going to carry 4 QBs, or will they part ways with Ryan Mallet for this circus.

Edited by dcmissle, 17 March 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[quint]

If the Superbowl proved anything it's that the league has figured out the Patriots offense.

How the fuck does the Super Bowl prove that, exactly?

The only thing the Super Bowl proved is that if you remove New England's second most explosive offensive weapon then an evenly matched team will play them close and have a chance to win. Your post sucks, and you have revealed an element of personal suckage for having a) conceiving it and b) exposing it for everyone else to read.

[Mystic Merlin]

Easy there, my friend. The good gentleman dbn is, as they say, taking the piss out of the situation.

[quint]

Ah, apologies then. I have imbibed a fair amount of alcohol today.

[dbn]

Ah, apologies then. I have imbibed a fair amount of alcohol today.

No worries. That's what today is about. (If I were an Irish poet I'd punch you in the eye, but, sadly, I'm not.)

[RedOctober3829]

Here's an interesting way to start your Sunday morning: 49ers free-agent QB Alex Smith is visiting today with the Miami Dolphins.

https://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/status/181350974626078720

Interesting indeed...

[sodenj5]

I'm intrigued as a Fins fan. Smith isn't an all-world quarterback, but he seems like he would fit Philbin's west coast style of offense well. Smart, athletic quarterback that takes care of the ball, and has good accuracy on the short and intermediate timing routes. I would personally like to see Smith under center 100x more than a completely unproven and untested Matt Flynn.

[TheoShmeo]

As a Pats fan, I'd rather see the devil I know and don't believe in all that much -- Alex Smith -- in Miami than Matt Flynn, who I think has the chance to be exceptional. That said, if I were a Fins fan, I might prefer the player will less volatility.

Flynn's resume is short. But a title at LSU and two very strong games in the pros aint too shabby.

[sodenj5]

As a Pats fan, I'd rather see the devil I know and don't believe in all that much -- Alex Smith -- in Miami than Matt Flynn, who I think has the chance to be exceptional. That said, if I were a Fins fan, I might prefer the player will less volatility.

Flynn's resume is short. But a title at LSU and two very strong games in the pros aint too shabby.

Coming from this end, I've seen Miami go through so many quarterbacks via free agency and trade (Culpepper and AJ Feeley come to mind immediately) that I would greatly prefer them to take a guy that is a.) coming off a Pro Bowl season b.) nearly led his team to the Super Bowl and c.) is still fairly young and healthy. Like you said, you sort of know what you're getting from Smith. Nothing spectacular, but solid, steady play. That would actually be a vast improvement for Miami.

On the flip, Flynn has shown flashes of brilliance, and if he went to Miami, he'd be in the same system as he was in Green Bay. However, I don't think I'd be comfortable handing a guy like that the money he's going to be looking for (6-8 mill/year) and calling him the starter. For every Matt Scahub, theres 20 Kevin Kolb's and AJ Feeley's.

[Ed Hillel]

Somehow I don't see Brady being too keen on the idea of running the Wildcat and I really don't see how Tebow can be a back-up when he struggles to run anything beyond the high school/college style option. Someone must be hitting the hash pipe hard.

Tebow coming would intrigue me quite a bit. He wouldn't be coming in as a QB, imo, he'd be coming in and playing a role similar to what Hernandez has played. I wouldn't be shocked to see him get a shot on defense either. The question is how much would you give up for him? A third wouldn't upset me. And it would be hilarious to see the media reaction.

[snowmanny]

Of course Tebow is a crappy runner as long as he drops the ball on the ground every five seconds. Can't imagine one thing I'd want him for.

[Ed Hillel]

Running as a QB and running as an H back are different. It's a lot easier to fumble when scanning the field and holding the ball in one hand.

[snowmanny]

This is a fair point, and perhaps he could change his style. But it seemed to me that he was reckless with the ball when running in general, not just on broken pass plays.

[dcdrew10]

Tebow coming would intrigue me quite a bit. He wouldn't be coming in as a QB, imo, he'd be coming in and playing a role similar to what Hernandez has played. I wouldn't be shocked to see him get a shot on defense either. The question is how much would you give up for him? A third wouldn't upset me. And it would be hilarious to see the media reaction.

Not a f*cking chance I would trade a 3rd round pick for Tebus If I was BB/Cesario. I might give a stolen Gideon Bible for him. If they wouldn't take that, maybe a 5th round pick, but that is a reach, especially considering the Pats need to develop a the interior of both the offensive and defensive lines.

[Van Everyman]

The fact that it's Clayton reporting this (or, more accurately, repeating a rumor) seems to give it some credibility. As noted back during the 2010 draft, while nobody here wanted to burn a 1st rounder on him, Tebow completely fits the MO for the kind of player BB covets.

I just have a hard time believing that the Pats would pay the same kind of freight a team that's desperate for a QB would. Like, wouldn't the Seahawks, the Redskins or Jags pay far more than the Pats would given the need for something, anything at the QB position?

Edit: Forgot the Skins traded for the RG3 pick...

Edited by Van Everyman, 18 March 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[soxfan121]

Greg Bedard:

2. Nice work by the 49ers to keep their interest in Peyton Manning secret until the very end. And Manning’s decision could have an impact on his legacy. How does he not pick the 49ers, a team that has all the pieces in place for a Super Bowl run? The Broncos and Titans are down a level - solid teams, but not on a championship level. If Manning wants to be a champion again, he should pick the 49ers. If he doesn’t, what does that say about him?

[DrewDawg]

So Peyton picking a championship level team would say good things about his legacy, but Lebron doing it (over a team a level or two down like the Knicks) says the opposite about him?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

So Peyton picking a championship level team would say good things about his legacy, but Lebron doing it (over a team a level or two down like the Knicks) says the opposite about him?

Only one of those players was cut by his former team. It does make a fair bit of difference in the situations.

[dcmissle]

"How does he not pick the 49ers, a team that has all the pieces in place for a Super Bowl run? The Broncos and Titans are down a level - solid teams, but not on a championship level. If Manning wants to be a champion again, he should pick the 49ers. If he doesn’t, what does that say about him?"

This is idiocy that we often see at the MLB trading deadline when a star declines to waive a no-trade, and Bedard should know better.

[Ed Hillel]

If Manning does go to San Fran, the favorites to meet in the Superbowl would be Manning vs. Brady. That would create the biggest boner in NFL history for the execs.

[TheShynessClinic]

"How does he not pick the 49ers, a team that has all the pieces in place for a Super Bowl run? The Broncos and Titans are down a level - solid teams, but not on a championship level. If Manning wants to be a champion again, he should pick the 49ers. If he doesn’t, what does that say about him?"

This is idiocy that we often see at the MLB trading deadline when a star declines to waive a no-trade, and Bedard should know better.

These two situations are not even closely comparable. You're talking about a player, in the middle of a season, not wanting to uproot his life and family in a 48-72 hour period. Manning is a FA and has known this was going to happen for a while.

[dcmissle]

These two situations are not even closely comparable. You're talking about a player, in the middle of a season, not wanting to uproot his life and family in a 48-72 hour period. Manning is a FA and has known this was going to happen for a while.

Who is anyone to pass a judgment on this? Maybe Peyton likes Denver because it's historically a terrific franchise, and a great place to raise a family. And who can be so damn cocksure that the 49ers would present the best shot next year, much less over the course of the next 3 years? Teams rise from the ashes, have a miracle season, and then fall on their faces. We see it all the time in the NFL, and there is nothing that necessarily saves SF from the same fate. No, this is an implicit attack on Peyton's character. Either he's not "up to the challenge" if he passes on SF or, alternatively, he's betraying the Mannings' arrogance in preserving the chance for an all-Manning SB. It's entirely bogus in either case.

Edited by dcmissle, 18 March 2012 - 12:16 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

So, Alex Smith is in Miami today.

[Royal Reader]

Who is anyone to pass a judgment on this? Maybe Peyton likes Denver because it's historically a terrific franchise, and a great place to raise a family. And who can be so damn cocksure that the 49ers would present the best shot next year, much less over the course of the next 3 years?

This. I mean, the Broncos defense wasn't elite, but it was very good for long stretches. They have a promising young wideout in Thomas, a decent enough O-line and a winnable division, plus a coach who's shown willingness to tailor his system to maximize the talents of his QB.

[dcmissle]

This. I mean, the Broncos defense wasn't elite, but it was very good for long stretches. They have a promising young wideout in Thomas, a decent enough O-line and a winnable division, plus a coach who's shown willingness to tailor his system to maximize the talents of his QB.

Unlike another HC who, although he may have just pulled off THE best turnaround in NFL history given the circumstances (lockout), shows every sign of being a type A prick and much less likely than Fox to just turn over the keys to the offense.

[DrewDawg]

Only one of those players was cut by his former team. It does make a fair bit of difference in the situations.

Yeah, but not enough where one guy is an a-hole for picking a good team to win a title and another isn't. I get that Peyton has a lot fewer years left too.

But both guys, for whatever reason, were free to sign anywhere they wanted. To have such divergent opinions of what their choices say about them shows some inherent bias to my eyes.

Not that it really matters much either way.

[E5 Yaz]

Yeah, but not enough where one guy is an a-hole for picking a good team to win a title and another isn't. I get that Peyton has a lot fewer years left too.

But both guys, for whatever reason, were free to sign anywhere they wanted. To have such divergent opinions of what their choices say about them shows some inherent bias to my eyes.

Not that it really matters much either way.

One team wanted the player back; the other didn't .. and somehow you think the situations are equal?

[quint]

One team wanted the player back; the other didn't .. and somehow you think the situations are equal?

The media circus and city hopping are a parallel. If you want believe James is a dick for choosing the door while Manning remains a saint for being shown the door that's a different discussion. They both utilized or are utilizing the market to get what they want. Which is not a bad thing.

[DrewDawg]

One team wanted the player back; the other didn't .. and somehow you think the situations are equal?

Huh? I'm talking about where they choose to go play after they were FA. The writer said if Manning didn't pick the team set to win it all, what would that say about him. However Lebron picked the team closer to winning it all and they killed him for it.

My point had nothing to do with how they were released, only where they are choosing to go.

[Salva135]

Huh? I'm talking about where they choose to go play after they were FA. The writer said if Manning didn't pick the team set to win it all, what would that say about him. However Lebron picked the team closer to winning it all and they killed him for it.

My point had nothing to do with how they were released, only where they are choosing to go.

I think part of it just has to do with the difference between the leagues. The legacy of NBA superstars gets "penalized" the more help they have in winning titles; no such stigma exists for NFL QBs.

[E5 Yaz]

Huh? I'm talking about where they choose to go play after they were FA. The writer said if Manning didn't pick the team set to win it all, what would that say about him. However Lebron picked the team closer to winning it all and they killed him for it.

My point had nothing to do with how they were released, only where they are choosing to go.

But it's not separate issues. The anger toward LeBron has to do as much with leaving Cleveland as it did with choosing Miami.

[DrewDawg]

But it's not separate issues. The anger toward LeBron has to do as much with leaving Cleveland as it did with choosing Miami.

Yes, but I'm talking about the anger he got for joining Wade. There was that as well as the anger about him leaving Cleveland. I get that. But he also got grief for choosing to playing with All-Stars in Miami.

But anyway, it was a throwaway line. It's not that big of a deal. I just thought it was funny that once he was a FA the writer said Peyton should join the team closer to a title, and when LBJ was deciding most thought that he should go to NY and not Miami. That's all.

[ivanvamp]

Yes, but I'm talking about the anger he got for joining Wade. There was that as well as the anger about him leaving Cleveland. I get that. But he also got grief for choosing to playing with All-Stars in Miami.

But anyway, it was a throwaway line. It's not that big of a deal. I just thought it was funny that once he was a FA the writer said Peyton should join the team closer to a title, and when LBJ was deciding most thought that he should go to NY and not Miami. That's all.

I think part of it (and I'm not even sure if I'm remembering this right, so feel free to disregard) was how it came about. Peyton Manning would just be joining a team that he had no part of assembling. The Heat thing went like this: Wade, LeBron, and Bosh conspired (if that's the right word...sounds so negative) to do this together, so LeBron had a hand in putting that group of all-stars together.

[Darnell's Son]

I think ivan hit the nail on the head. The Lebron situation had way more to do with "The Decision" than it did with the decision. Everyone knew he was leaving Cleveland and was going to go to a team with at least one other superstar onboard, more likely two. The way he had an hour long television show on a Thursday night with an interviewer lobbing softball after softball and having a network who transparently supported "The Decision" as some type of landmark event turned people off. We're talking about one of the best athletes of a generation being a dickhead, that's why there is so much ire thrown his way.

Manning is presumably looking for a chance to be one of the few QBs to win multiple Superbowls. I really hope he goes with the 49ers because I think that would give him the best chance to win. If he goes to Seattle or some other team that throws the most money at him, then I will lose a lot of respect for him.

[maufman]

Tennessee is likely to offer the most money, and it's the only club still in the running where Peyton would have a fighting chance to become the best QB in franchise history. (Though he'd have to a beast for at least four years and win a ring to surpass McNair.) plus, he went to UT and is already a legend in those parts. Wouldn't begrudge him that decision in the least.

(null)

[soxfan121]

The Heat thing went like this: Wade, LeBron, and Bosh conspired (if that's the right word...sounds so negative) to do this together, so LeBron had a hand in putting that group of all-stars together.

James took less money than Bosh to make it happen - and the NBA is a completely different league/game. One guy contributes 20% or more to the team on the floor - a QB in football is, at most, 10%. And one of the few NFL players you can argue is really worth 10% (when he was healthy) is Peyton Manning. I can see why the comparison is being made, but it's flawed and I don't think Peyton is going to sign for LESS "with a contender". If and when Peyton signs, he's going to be the highest paid player on that team and one of the top 5 paid players in the league, if not top two. 5/$90M with $30M+ guaranteed, as reported, is top dollar. Had Peyton signed with Arizona and took less than Larry Fitzgerald, you could comp THAT to Lebron's decision. Otherwise - no, it's not worth talking about.

The issue of whether Peyton's legacy is affected by a decision to go "second tier" with Tennessee or Denver as opposed to San Francisco is going to be debated. Rightly or wrongly, there is a perception about Peyton & the Manning family that does have some factual basis. If Peyton "passes" on San Francisco he will be criticized. Fact is, SF is a better team than Denver and much better than Tennessee. If Peyton makes his decision on something other than the quality of the supporting cast, it will support (not prove) the theory that the potential of a Manning Bowl was the primary concern and that will rub people the wrong way.

I figure Tennessee is going to offer Manning partial ownership (after he retires, wink-wink, no salary cap violations here!) as well as the richest amount of guaranteed money. They kind of have to - they are the weakest team and seemingly furthest from the Bowl. Denver can't offer a post-career FO job but has a "playoff team" and an executive desperate to dump the previous regime's QB. But SF was a kick returner from the Super Bowl, a terrific defense and more history than the other two combined (sorry Denver fans).

So yeah, if Peyton doesn't choose SF he's gonna get some deserved criticism. Even if it is obviously about the money.

[EvilEmpire]

So yeah, if Peyton doesn't choose SF he's gonna get some deserved criticism. Even if it is obviously about the money.

Maybe, but I don't think it would be fair. Manning probably has enough ego to think he he can make a solid second-tier team a contender. But he has to go to a situation where he has enough control over the offense to do it his way. Not sure that would be SF.

[Royal Reader]

But it's not separate issues. The anger toward LeBron has to do as much with leaving Cleveland as it did with choosing Miami.

Right. The original analogy is totally flawed because:

A) The Niners with a healthy Manning would have a great shot, but it's not like they're the prohibitive favorites the Heat were. The Heat line-up looked like something you might make on a video game. It's like when you're playing a pickup game in the playground, and the best player insists on being on a team with his two best buddies, even if the best buddies might be among the better players in the game and the game won't be fun with all of them on the same team.
B) Manning would quite clearly be the most important single player on the team, whereas some of the LeBron criticism came from the fact he couldn't be Batman in Cleveland so he went to play Robin to Dwyane Wade in Miami.
C) Manning isn't a native of Indiana.
D) Manning won a title in Indy, so not only do the fans of his old team not feel he didn't get the job done there, but he doesn't look like he's prostituting himself to get a ring.

Edited by Royal Reader, 18 March 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[maufman]

Can we please ditch the "Manning Bowl" thing?

If Peyton signs with San Francisco, he could potentially face Eli every season, and there's a good chance they'll meet in the playoffs once or twice too. On the other hand, if Peyton signs with an AFC team, they're guaranteed not to play more than one regular season game against each other (assuming Peyton has no more than four seasons left), and they would only meet in the playoffs if they both reached the Super Bowl. I'm sure they will root fervently for a "Manning Bowl," but the obvious reason to prefer an AFC team (assuming Peyton actually does prefer that) is to minimize the number of times he has to play against his brother. And since Eli is the uncle of his children and will be part of Peyton's life long after most people in the NFL no longer are, avoiding high-stakes competition with him seems like a sensible and decent thing to do. I mean, I'm not in a position to fuck with my family members' career aspirations, but if I were, I imagine it would make it awkward to hang out with them at Thanksgiving and Christmas.

I realize the unthinking elements in the media will harp on this topic, but we hold ourselves to higher standard. (And in fairness, soxfan121 was merely acknowledging that it's out there, not that it's valid.)