Jump to content


Yo! You're not logged in. Why am I seeing this ad?

SOSH

OK we're back on our main server.  It was taking a super long time to move *everything* back just to save a day's worth of messages.  I've been at this all day now and need to get back to my real job so.,... sorry.  Working on a better plan in case this happens again.  nip

Photo

Dwight Howard: The Indecision


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
128 replies to this topic

#51 dolomite133


  • everything I write, think and feel is stupid


  • 5920 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 08:40 AM

Being an NBA star must be pretty confusing.

For the last year, LeBron James has been roundly criticized for joining Miami and not going/staying somewhere where he'd be "the man". Now Dwight Howard states that he wants to be the man, and he's an asshole for being unwilling to accept a secondary role and not wanting to be a winner.


Yeah, but you're forgetting people said Lebron wilted under pressure and that's why he "fled" to Miami.

Dwight's in a different situation. No one has criticized him for melting down. Rather the emerging criticism is that Dwight's ego is too big to share the spotlight.

#52 Grin&MartyBarret

  • 2744 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:05 AM

Yeah, but you're forgetting people said Lebron wilted under pressure and that's why he "fled" to Miami.

Dwight's in a different situation. No one has criticized him for melting down. Rather the emerging criticism is that Dwight's ego is too big to share the spotlight.


This is exactly my point though. He's doing (or presumably will do) exactly what everybody wished LeBron had done, and yet criticism emerges. For a year the narrative has been that this generation of NBA stars isn't competitive enough and that they'd rather play with their friends than compete against them, and now Dwight Howard does the opposite and the criticism that emerges is that he's got a huge ego and is selfish.

Even more ironic is that a month ago when the news leaked that Kobe Bryant told Howard that in LA he'd be the third option, Kobe was criticized for being a giant asshole and a terrible recruiter, and nobody blamed Dwight for not wanting to go to LA to be the 3rd guy. But now, a month later, he's selfish for wanting to be the main guy somewhere.

#53 jon abbey


  • Shanghai Warrior


  • 14628 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:18 AM

I'm pretty sure if Howard decided to play alongside Bynum or Tyson Chandler, he'd be mocked too. A complementary star is one thing, a guy who fills the same role as you is another and why LeBron got mocked, especially with NY his for the taking. He would have instantly become the best Knick in history, and a city hero if he'd managed to bring them even one ring.

#54 BigSoxFan


  • SoSH Member


  • 10145 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:52 AM

This is exactly my point though. He's doing (or presumably will do) exactly what everybody wished LeBron had done, and yet criticism emerges. For a year the narrative has been that this generation of NBA stars isn't competitive enough and that they'd rather play with their friends than compete against them, and now Dwight Howard does the opposite and the criticism that emerges is that he's got a huge ego and is selfish.

Even more ironic is that a month ago when the news leaked that Kobe Bryant told Howard that in LA he'd be the third option, Kobe was criticized for being a giant asshole and a terrible recruiter, and nobody blamed Dwight for not wanting to go to LA to be the 3rd guy. But now, a month later, he's selfish for wanting to be the main guy somewhere.


Well, he IS the "main guy" somewhere - Orlando - but has continually crapped on the organization that drafted him #1 in 2004. The Magic are 27-15 and are the #3 seed in the East. With a little tweaking (i.e., a Monta Ellis), they could conceivably challenge the Bulls/Heat. It's not like Howard is stuck on some floundering .500 team.

#55 Brickowski

  • 2975 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:58 AM

Howard will be criticized no matter what he does. It comes with the territory. What amazes me is that the Magic appear poised to lose him for nothing. IMHO the chance of him remaining in Orlando is roughly .01 percent. De Vos and Smith have their heads in the sand.

I don't think he cares about Orlando's record-- which is largely due to him. I think he wants to go to a big market team.

Edited by Brickowski, 12 March 2012 - 10:00 AM.


#56 Grin&MartyBarret

  • 2744 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:07 AM

Well, he IS the "main guy" somewhere - Orlando - but has continually crapped on the organization that drafted him #1 in 2004. The Magic are 27-15 and are the #3 seed in the East. With a little tweaking (i.e., a Monta Ellis), they could conceivably challenge the Bulls/Heat. It's not like Howard is stuck on some floundering .500 team.


I'm not really sure how he's crapped on them, exactly. By floundering as to whether or not to re-sign?

His situation is very similar to LeBron's. He makes that team competitive, and without him the pieces they have aren't a playoff team. And sure, with tweaking, they could compete. But how do you take the pieces around Dwight and turn them into Monta Ellis? The Warriors are convinced that Ellis is an all-star caliber player and won't trade him without getting one in return. And the closest thing Orlando has to an all-star is Ryan Anderson, who plays the same position as a guy Golden State just gave a big contract to. Otis Smith made the same mistakes Danny Ferry did; he over paid complimentary pieces and as a result doesn't really have any attractive trade chips.

edit: For reference, Orlando has 31.5 million dollars--about half of the cap--committed to Turkoglu, Glen Davis, Jason Richardson, Chris Duhon, and Quentin Richardson. In 2014. If Dwight re-signs there, that's his squad in 2014. If there hadn't been an amnesty clause, you could add 22.3 million more to that total for Arenas. So it's not like Orlando is this great situation and Dwight Howard should be thrilled to be there. They're good despite Otis Smith's best efforts.

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 12 March 2012 - 10:17 AM.


#57 BigSoxFan


  • SoSH Member


  • 10145 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:44 AM

Howard has crapped on Orlando by not refusing to answer about this subject. He doesn't have to leak the teams he'd be willing to play for and all that stuff. Just say that he'll address it at the appropriate time. Opposing GMs aren't going to give their best offer when they think that it's likely that Orlando is going to lose Howard anyways. I agree with you, Grin, that he's in a very analogous situation as LeBron was in 2010. His GM has let him down and now Orlando is left with a roster that is too good (with Howard) to get a good draft pick but not good enough to win a title.

Ultimately, and ironically, Smith killed his chances of keeping Howard by signing Lewis, making the Arenas trade to get more flexibility, and then getting rid of Gortat to bring in Richardson. Every move that was made was done with one purpose - to give Dwight Howard a better team. Now, they're left with the most dominant post player in the league and a bunch of bit players. And the only way they could add to the talent base is to taken on a worse contract, similar to the Cavs towards the end of LeBron's tenure there.

I don't blame Howard for not wanting to waste his prime on a mediocre team (just like I didn't blame LeBron), I just am not going to defend him when he is clearly fueling the fire in the media.

Edited by BigSoxFan, 12 March 2012 - 10:46 AM.


#58 Brickowski

  • 2975 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:33 PM

Slavery was abolished in this country via the 13th Amendment. Howard owes Orlando absolutely nothing except his best efforts as a player for so long as he is there.

#59 dolomite133


  • everything I write, think and feel is stupid


  • 5920 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:50 PM

This is exactly my point though. He's doing (or presumably will do) exactly what everybody wished LeBron had done, and yet criticism emerges. For a year the narrative has been that this generation of NBA stars isn't competitive enough and that they'd rather play with their friends than compete against them, and now Dwight Howard does the opposite and the criticism that emerges is that he's got a huge ego and is selfish.

Even more ironic is that a month ago when the news leaked that Kobe Bryant told Howard that in LA he'd be the third option, Kobe was criticized for being a giant asshole and a terrible recruiter, and nobody blamed Dwight for not wanting to go to LA to be the 3rd guy. But now, a month later, he's selfish for wanting to be the main guy somewhere.


I think perception has a lot to do with it. Everyone perceived LeBron as churlish and bad under pressure. His move to Miami (and the way he "decided" to go there) only reinforced this perception. A lot of people look at LeBron as a backstabber and a villian and someone with an ill-behaved, promiscious mother and a boorish, overbearing posse of hangers on.

Meanwhile Dwight has come across differently. He has never visibly "choked" in big games (he might not have played well, but he didn't shoot left-handed free throws) and has never engaged in childish in-game antics or made oblivious, dumb PR moves. When people think of Dwight Howard they think "fun-loving, super-talented big man." They think of the smile, the dunk contest, superman, all that good stuff.

So if Dwight is traded, or if he signs elsewhere, people will look at it more like when Shaq went to LA, or KG went to Boston, or Barkley went to Houston, or what have you. It will be one of those moves derided by local fans but embraced by the rest of the league and its fans.

I'm not saying the above is right or wrong. I'm just saying there are obvious differences between the way people view either situation.

#60 Brickowski

  • 2975 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:06 PM

With LeBron, it was that idiotic show on ESPN to announce his decision. Complete turn-off.

#61 gammoseditor


  • also had a stroke


  • 2580 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:09 PM

With LeBron, it was that idiotic show on ESPN to announce his decision. Complete turn-off.


And on top of that he was going to a team with two other all stars. He was like the kid who was a star athlete in school and would insist on having the rest of the best athletes on his team for playground games.

#62 Three10toLeft

  • 751 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:48 PM

I hadn't really thought about it this way before, but Jalen Rose mentioned on his podcast that he would keep Dwight through the season. Only the Magic would be able to offer him a max deal, if he doesn't want to be in Orlando, refuse to sign and trade him and make him leave $28 million on the table in a tax free state.

Regardless of how much he can make in endorsements in another city, which I don't think is much more considering that Kevin Durant seems like a player that's having no problems establishing a "brand" in a small market, that's a ton of money to leave on the table.

If I was an owner, I would never allow a player to have his cake and eat it too, unless a team gave me a Godfather type proposal at the deadline.

#63 BigSoxFan


  • SoSH Member


  • 10145 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:54 PM

I hadn't really thought about it this way before, but Jalen Rose mentioned on his podcast that he would keep Dwight through the season. Only the Magic would be able to offer him a max deal, if he doesn't want to be in Orlando, refuse to sign and trade him and make him leave $28 million on the table in a tax free state.

Regardless of how much he can make in endorsements in another city, which I don't think is much more considering that Kevin Durant seems like a player that's having no problems establishing a "brand" in a small market, that's a ton of money to leave on the table.

If I was an owner, I would never allow a player to have his cake and eat it too, unless a team gave me a Godfather type proposal at the deadline.


If you were an owner, you'd have the responsibility of obtaining the most amount of assets for your clearly-departing star player as you could get. Yes, it sucks to be put in that position but if Howard is clearly leaving, and you can get 1 or 2 useful pieces for him, you have to do it. You never know if one of them will be needed for a deal to get your next superstar. This is why owners always cave - because they have millions on the line. It's easy for us fans to get pissy and say, "have fun taking $28 million less, Dwight".

#64 jon abbey


  • Shanghai Warrior


  • 14628 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:22 PM

I hadn't really thought about it this way before, but Jalen Rose mentioned on his podcast that he would keep Dwight through the season. Only the Magic would be able to offer him a max deal, if he doesn't want to be in Orlando, refuse to sign and trade him and make him leave $28 million on the table in a tax free state.

Regardless of how much he can make in endorsements in another city, which I don't think is much more considering that Kevin Durant seems like a player that's having no problems establishing a "brand" in a small market, that's a ton of money to leave on the table.

If I was an owner, I would never allow a player to have his cake and eat it too, unless a team gave me a Godfather type proposal at the deadline.


People need to stop saying this, he's only leaving $28M on the table if you think he's not going to get another big deal in four years, which he almost certainly will. So then it's less than $10M even with the lack of state tax, Howard has all the leverage here.

#65 Three10toLeft

  • 751 posts

Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:16 PM

Of course he's going to get another big deal. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he would be leaving a large bit of money on the table.

And of course you don't let Dwight walk if you can get something of value for him before the deadline. But unless you can get Bynum back, I wouldn't be satisfied with hoping the likes of Brooke Lopez can help me in the off chance that he might become a piece that lands my team their next superstar via trade. Besides, what star would be willing to sign an extension in Orlando if Howard is gone?

If Howard isn't going to resign, it's going to do you no good to trade for random parts that keep you in NBA's no mans land, not good enough to do any damage in the playoffs, not bad enough to win the lottery.

Edited by Three10toLeft, 12 March 2012 - 10:22 PM.


#66 jon abbey


  • Shanghai Warrior


  • 14628 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:16 AM

Of course he's going to get another big deal. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he would be leaving a large bit of money on the table.


Um, yes it does, since the bulk of that money is in the extra year of the deal.

#67 wutang112878

  • 4864 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:41 AM

If you were an owner, you'd have the responsibility of obtaining the most amount of assets for your clearly-departing star player as you could get. Yes, it sucks to be put in that position but if Howard is clearly leaving, and you can get 1 or 2 useful pieces for him, you have to do it. You never know if one of them will be needed for a deal to get your next superstar. This is why owners always cave - because they have millions on the line. It's easy for us fans to get pissy and say, "have fun taking $28 million less, Dwight".


This is the worst thing about free agency in the NBA to me. The Magic can do a sign and trade and get 'something' for Howard, because they are the only team that can offer him the most money. But when Bosh or Lebron left, all those teams got was a 2nd round pick and a trade exemption that really did not add much to the rebuilding of the franchise. So essentially they helped facilitate the move of a max guy and helped him get more money and got very little in return. Which is why I think the in-season trade generally makes much more sense, because teams could get something like Denver got for Carmelo, which wasnt a great haul but better than the Bosh and Lebron deals. Once supposed max guys hit free agency they get all the leverage and the team they are leaving is just happy to get anything, its really foolish. It would be great to see one owner say 'ok, you want to sign with them, go ahead because we wont give you a sign and trade', considering how pissed Gilbert was with Lebron leaving I am surprised he didnt do it.

#68 A Bartlett Giamatti

  • 2048 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:52 AM

Um, yes it does, since the bulk of that money is in the extra year of the deal.

JA's right. Howard would have to go on a near-Odenian streak of injuries not to make the money back that he'd "be leaving on the table" with this deal.

That said, Chandler and Carmelo for Howard and Turkoglu.
Lin and Amare for D-Will and Petro.

Problem solved.

#69 Three10toLeft

  • 751 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:35 PM

I guess if you look at it purely from a revenue perspective, yeah... You'd be happy with what Denver has done since trading Carmelo, they have a team that is capable of making the playoffs and bringing in some more money from those games.

But if you're a fan of that team, you really think that was the best move they could have made? They got a lot for Melo, surprisingly so, since the Knicks were the only team that he was going to sign an extension with. But that doesn't dispute the fact that, again, the Denver Nuggets are a prime example of where you don't want to be in the NBA. They are currently the 6th seed in the WC. They will be lucky to get out of the first round, and best case scenario, their season ends in the western conference semi-finals.

Moving forward they would have been better off letting Melo walk at the end of last year and bottoming out this year in hopes of landing a top 3 pick in a loaded draft, that could very possibly turn in to a franchise type player. It's a riskier proposition, but I would much rather my team go for it that way. No team in the league right now is going to win an NBA championship without at least two star players. And unless you have an incredible amount of cap space and you have a couple star players plotting to sign together as a package deal, you're not going to be able to put the pieces together that will enable you to be a championship contender in today's NBA.

#70 Brickowski

  • 2975 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

The soap opera continues.... http://basketball.re...Van_Gundy_Smith

#71 jon abbey


  • Shanghai Warrior


  • 14628 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

No team in the league right now is going to win an NBA championship without at least two star players. And unless you have an incredible amount of cap space and you have a couple star players plotting to sign together as a package deal, you're not going to be able to put the pieces together that will enable you to be a championship contender in today's NBA.


Dallas says hello.

Basically you need a ton of luck however you try to do it, Dallas had Tyson Chandler handed to them which put them over the top.

#72 Three10toLeft

  • 751 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:51 PM

Dallas says hello.

Basically you need a ton of luck however you try to do it, Dallas had Tyson Chandler handed to them which put them over the top.


Okay... Tell me how a team like Denver is going to get their Dirk? With how the players in the league right now only want to play with other stars, where is he gonna come from?

The draft is pretty much the only way.

#73 Brickowski

  • 2975 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 01:02 PM

Okay... Tell me how a team like Denver is going to get their Dirk? With how the players in the league right now only want to play with other stars, where is he gonna come from?

The draft is pretty much the only way.


Well, Detroit proved that you could win a title without superstars, although that team was the exception, not the rule.

#74 JakeRae

  • 4999 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 01:13 PM

People need to stop saying this, he's only leaving $28M on the table if you think he's not going to get another big deal in four years, which he almost certainly will. So then it's less than $10M even with the lack of state tax, Howard has all the leverage here.

You need to stop asserting this too. What is the attrition rate for bigs by age 30? What are the odds his body breaks down sufficiently that he is not playing at all? What are the odds that he is no longer a max player by the time his next contract comes around.

He's definitely not leaving $28 million on the table by signing somewhere else. You are absolutely correct about this. But, the expected value he is sacrificing is probably closer to $14 million than $8 million.

#75 crow216


  • SoSH Member


  • 5260 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 01:37 PM

I keep hearing people in this thread mention Chandler/Melo for Howard/Turk. Is that just speculative thoughts or is there a basis for that happening based on rumors? I'm just asking because I don't pay too much attention to the NBA rumor mill.

#76 jon abbey


  • Shanghai Warrior


  • 14628 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 01:54 PM

You need to stop asserting this too. What is the attrition rate for bigs by age 30? What are the odds his body breaks down sufficiently that he is not playing at all? What are the odds that he is no longer a max player by the time his next contract comes around.

He's definitely not leaving $28 million on the table by signing somewhere else. You are absolutely correct about this. But, the expected value he is sacrificing is probably closer to $14 million than $8 million.


The only comparable center in recent times was Shaq, who made over $150M in salary after he turned 30.

Also, I just read that the salary for Howard in that 5th year under a new contract would be $24M+, so really the difference (assuming he gets another max deal) is about $3.5M.

#77 wutang112878

  • 4864 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 02:40 PM

I guess if you look at it purely from a revenue perspective, yeah... You'd be happy with what Denver has done since trading Carmelo, they have a team that is capable of making the playoffs and bringing in some more money from those games.

But if you're a fan of that team, you really think that was the best move they could have made? They got a lot for Melo, surprisingly so, since the Knicks were the only team that he was going to sign an extension with. But that doesn't dispute the fact that, again, the Denver Nuggets are a prime example of where you don't want to be in the NBA. They are currently the 6th seed in the WC. They will be lucky to get out of the first round, and best case scenario, their season ends in the western conference semi-finals.

Moving forward they would have been better off letting Melo walk at the end of last year and bottoming out this year in hopes of landing a top 3 pick in a loaded draft, that could very possibly turn in to a franchise type player. It's a riskier proposition, but I would much rather my team go for it that way. No team in the league right now is going to win an NBA championship without at least two star players. And unless you have an incredible amount of cap space and you have a couple star players plotting to sign together as a package deal, you're not going to be able to put the pieces together that will enable you to be a championship contender in today's NBA.


I agree that the trade put them in the dreaded 'just made the playoffs' stage of the franchise. But evaluating the decision to trade a max guy in season compared to when he hits free agency, and how to rebuild a franchise are 2 different things. I think we both agree that Denver got a decent haul for Melo right? What they didnt do was tear the rest of the franchise down to really rebuild. If they moved Harrington and Anderson, that would help them tear it down a bit.

The soap opera continues.... http://basketball.re...Van_Gundy_Smith


If this is serious that franchise is a joke. Howard is good, but he is not so good that he should be allowed to control the franchise. Not that VanGundy or Smith are that elite at their jobs either, but allowing a player to do this starts a slippery slope.

#78 bradcote

  • 246 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 02:48 PM

Sounds like all of Orlando's work is in vain...

http://sports.yahoo....ts_trade_031312

#79 Nick Kaufman


  • protector of human kind from spoilers


  • 8065 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 03:02 PM

If this is serious that franchise is a joke. Howard is good, but he is not so good that he should be allowed to control the franchise. Not that VanGundy or Smith are that elite at their jobs either, but allowing a player to do this starts a slippery slope.


That's a terrible offer not only from the Magic's point of view, but for Howard as well. I wouldn't want to be the player that got my GM and coach fired, would you?

#80 Rudy Pemberton


  • just plum doesn't understand


  • 27029 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 03:16 PM

But that doesn't dispute the fact that, again, the Denver Nuggets are a prime example of where you don't want to be in the NBA. They are currently the 6th seed in the WC. They will be lucky to get out of the first round, and best case scenario, their season ends in the western conference semi-finals.


Eh, people always say this...but aren't the Nuggets in a better spot than teams like Milwaukee, Toronto, Detroit, Washington, Charlotte, Sacramento, Golden State, NY, New Orleans etc?

Seems like Denver is in the mix with teams like Indiana, Atlanta, Utah, Portland, Minnesota, Phoenix, Houston, Memphis, Philly, and the Knicks...good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to win it all.

Which kind of begs the question....if there are only a handful of teams that really have a shot, is it better to be awful with the illusion that things are getting better or just OK with the reality that you'll never be good enough?

If you can't be one of the top 5 teams (Miami, OK, Chicago, LA, SA) right now, what organization would you want to be? Who has the brightest future?

too bad the latest CBA did nothing to really fix these problems.

#81 Brickowski

  • 2975 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:01 AM

Well, the Magic beat the Heat last night and now Howard says he wants to stay until the end of the year-- but no commitment beyond that.

#82 jon abbey


  • Shanghai Warrior


  • 14628 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:51 AM

Well, the Magic beat the Heat last night and now Howard says he wants to stay until the end of the year-- but no commitment beyond that.


By all reports, he wants to go to NJ in the offseason without them having gutted their team to get him, which I can actually respect a lot more than the way Melo did it last year. But that doesn't mean Orlando should oblige him, they're crazy not to move him by tomorrow.

#83 Rudy Pemberton


  • just plum doesn't understand


  • 27029 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:37 AM

The Magic have a chance to win it all though, probably not a great one, but they have a shot this season. Why not go for it, and if they lose Howard, so be it. They'll bottom out, isn't that the goal anyways? Would the Cavs have been better off trading LBJ a year early? I don't think so.

#84 Brickowski

  • 2975 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

By all reports, he wants to go to NJ in the offseason without them having gutted their team to get him, which I can actually respect a lot more than the way Melo did it last year. But that doesn't mean Orlando should oblige him, they're crazy not to move him by tomorrow.


But who would trade for him? Unless the trading partner is NJ, few teams will relinquish significant assets for a two-month rental. And why should NJ trade for Howard, since they can get him for free? IMHO the Magic screwed themselves by waiting too long.

#85 TripleOT

  • 57 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:45 AM

Since the Cs Big 3 championship window is almost shut, how about making a play for Howard as a rental, hoping that his experience in Boston, hopefully with a ring or a deep run, and the tutoring byBill Russell, convinces him to stick around for at least another year?

First Boston does the Nets a favor by allowing them to clear cap space by taking Petro and Morrow off their hands, hopefully along with a first round pick, for Wilcox, Dooling and Quisy. Then Boston pearl harbors the Nets by trading Ray Allen. JO and three first round picks to the Magic for Dwight Howard.

Morrow becomes the starting SG, and should be able to bring at least of some of what Ray Allen brought to the Cs, except for the vet savvy and big shot history. D-Ho, KG and Rondo on the same defense gives the Cs something special.

It would be a ballsy move by Ainge, but the upside is huge. That team should be able to contend this year, and by adding a scorer with the MLE next year (Ray Allen), would be right there again. Howard could decline his player option for next season and have a nice two year run in Boston. Then if he felt the Cs couldn't reload after the Big 3 get put to pasture, D-Ho could move on.

You don't usually don't titles without having the top players in the league. The Cs might have to make that move without a guarantee from Dwight for next year, but some time you have to gamble.

#86 BigMike


  • SoSH Member


  • 18019 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:02 AM

Honestly if you can trade for Howard you do trade for Howard, regardless of what the cost is. Yeah he might be targetted for Brooklyn in the offseason, but still you have maybe a 20% chance of resigning him. It is worth it. And I am not just talking about the Celtics, I am talking pretty much any team in the NBA

#87 wutang112878

  • 4864 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:38 AM

Since the Cs Big 3 championship window is almost shut, how about making a play for Howard as a rental, hoping that his experience in Boston, hopefully with a ring or a deep run, and the tutoring byBill Russell, convinces him to stick around for at least another year?

First Boston does the Nets a favor by allowing them to clear cap space by taking Petro and Morrow off their hands, hopefully along with a first round pick, for Wilcox, Dooling and Quisy. Then Boston pearl harbors the Nets by trading Ray Allen. JO and three first round picks to the Magic for Dwight Howard.

Morrow becomes the starting SG, and should be able to bring at least of some of what Ray Allen brought to the Cs, except for the vet savvy and big shot history. D-Ho, KG and Rondo on the same defense gives the Cs something special.

It would be a ballsy move by Ainge, but the upside is huge. That team should be able to contend this year, and by adding a scorer with the MLE next year (Ray Allen), would be right there again. Howard could decline his player option for next season and have a nice two year run in Boston. Then if he felt the Cs couldn't reload after the Big 3 get put to pasture, D-Ho could move on.

You don't usually don't titles without having the top players in the league. The Cs might have to make that move without a guarantee from Dwight for next year, but some time you have to gamble.


I agree this would be a worthwhile roll of the dice if you think you actually have a chance to keep Howard, but the little I know about Howard I think he is a clown and I dont think he even knows who Bill Russel is, so using him as a recruiting tool with the Celts tradition I dont think will work and I think we have about a 2% chance of having him sign here longterm.

in addition, the 3 1st rounders would essentially be mortgaging the vast majority of our future to get a chance at retaining Howard. Also, the NBA has a rule that teams can not trade away 1st round picks in consecutive years, so even if we offered the Clips pick [top 10 protected for a while] we have as well its unclear how much value the Magic would see in those picks if they were completely spread out. To put this idea in perspective when Pitino was running the team he and Chris Wallace offered the Blazers 3 1st round picks for JO, and even if we got him in his prime he was not bringing us to a title and that really would have set the franchise back.

So on one hand the Celts could take a significant risk with this trade and hope they can keep Howard, or alternatively they could make no move and go to free agency and see if they could recruit him to sign here and then maybe do a sign and trade. I would argue the chances of us signing him are about equally as likely and trying to sign him as a FA is much, much less risky.

#88 Rudy Pemberton


  • just plum doesn't understand


  • 27029 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

Also, from a business perspective, what would the value even be in a championship season followed up by Howard leaving and the team being gutted, with no draft picks to rebuild with? Weighed against the more realistic scenario of a non-championship season followed by Howard leaving and I'm struggling to see why ownership would go for it.

#89 Brickowski

  • 2975 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:37 AM

Plus you'd be stuck with Hedo, because if Howard goes before Thursday, Hedo is almost certainly going too.

#90 TripleOT

  • 57 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:07 PM

My idea has the Cs snagging a first from the Nets first, and then trading that pick, their pick and the Clips pick this year. I know you can't trade firsts in successive years, but can't you trade stockpiled picks from the same draft?

I would think that Adidas would be thrilled with having Howard on the Celtics - probably not as much as in Brooklyn, but still thrilled. Howard can not exercise his option for next year, allowing him to play next to KG for another year. Expectations wouldn't be solely on him, for the first time in his career, and he might like it that way and stay.

The way KG is playing, it would he reasonable to assume that he's got at least one more good year in him. Then Pierce's money comes off the books and the Cs can reload with only Rondo and Howard on their books, and $20m+ in cap space. If Howard doesn't want to be a Karl Malone, he's going to have to be on a team that can vanquish the Heat and Bulls the next three or four years. Boston, with a core of Howard, KG, Pierce and Rondo, will have a much better chance than the Nets with DWill and injury prone low post slogger Brooke Lopez.

Edited by TripleOT, 14 March 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#91 Jed Zeppelin


  • SoSH Member


  • 14908 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:21 PM

Why would the Nets give away a first when they already have a great chance to keep the pick, land a nice asset, and get Howard anyway?

#92 Grin&MartyBarret

  • 2744 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:56 PM

Aaaaaand, Dwight Howard told his teammates that he's made the decision to opt into the final year of his contract in Orlando.

https://twitter.com/#!/cbruey/status/180017520038789120 mabrowndog is a dingus

The Nets better pray that's not legit.

#93 Grin&MartyBarret

  • 2744 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:59 PM

Sam Amick and Ken Berger have confirmed this.

edit: Confirmed that he told teammates this. Not that the paperwork has been filed.

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 14 March 2012 - 03:00 PM.


#94 jon abbey


  • Shanghai Warrior


  • 14628 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:59 PM

That would be amazing, WIlliams will go to Dallas and NY can maybe trade for Howard in the offseason.

#95 A Bartlett Giamatti

  • 2048 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:03 PM

Call me crazy, but if he picks up his option for another year....wouldn't a whole new market open up for Howard that the Magic could explore?

#96 04101Seadog

  • 313 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:19 PM

It would be great to see D12 sign the papers, say he want's to stay another year and then have Orlando turn around 10 min before the deadline and send him to Charlotte with his newly signed option. Granted though if they were ruthless enough to do that the asking price goes through the roof now that a team will have that 1 guaranteed year.

So Danny, what's plan B here buddy?

#97 Derek's Friend

  • 203 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:49 PM

and on and on it goes:

Adrian Wojnarowski@WojYahooNBA

Three Magic players tell Y! Sports (2 to @SpearsNBAYahoo) and one to me that Dwight Howard did not tell them he was opting in for next year.

Edited by Derek's Friend, 14 March 2012 - 03:52 PM.


#98 Derek's Friend

  • 203 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:51 PM

Adrian Wojnarowski@WojYahooNBA
Said one Magic player on Howard meeting: "Next year was not even mentioned in meeting...He told us he was "all-in" for this season."

Edited by Derek's Friend, 14 March 2012 - 03:51 PM.


#99 Jed Zeppelin


  • SoSH Member


  • 14908 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:57 PM

Nice job jumping the gun Christian Bruey, now step back and let the big boys play.

I know Amick and Berger are legit reporters, but I don't really trust anyone but Woj (unless he's writing an article about Lebron).

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 14 March 2012 - 04:00 PM.


#100 TripleOT

  • 57 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 04:18 PM

Howard is a conniving bastard. He's trying to not get traded to the Nets so he can go there this summer without them giving up any assets. If he puts it out there verbally that he's not option out, and not actually signing anything to lock him, he could get past the trading deadline as a Magic and then go to the Nets and either play next to Lopez, or they can S and T Lopez for someone good to join D-Ho and DWill.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users