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Dwight Howard: The Indecision


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#1 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:21 AM

Less than three weeks until the trading deadline (March 15), and I'm wondering what will happen with Howard. Obviously he's limited Orlando's options by only agreeing to re-sign with a handful of teams, but I don't think teams like NJ and Dallas really have much to offer via trade, so if Orlando decides they need to move him, I'm wondering what they can get.

As a Knicks fan, I'd offer Chandler/Amare/Fields/Lin for Howard/Turkoglu/Nelson. If Orlando puts those four guys together with Ryan Anderson, Jason Richardson and JJ Redick, that's a solid playoff team. From NY's perspective, Nelson's deal expires after next season, same as Chris Paul's. Maybe it's impossible to move Lin from a PR perspective, but it's Dwight Howard. Howard hasn't said he'd go to NY, but I assume if he'd re-sign with NJ, he'd resign with NY.

So who else can offer a package better than that? Bynum/Gasol for Howard/Turkoglu maybe tops it, but that would make the Lakers shockingly thin after Howard/Kobe, not that I think they'd care, but maybe Howard would. Who else?

#2 BostonFan23


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:57 AM

Didn't the Knicks trade Chandler in the Carmelo deal?

#3 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:00 AM

Tyson Chandler.

#4 A Bartlett Giamatti

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:41 AM

I can't imagine Orlando, or anyone else really, taking on Amares contract right now.

#5 jose melendez


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:45 AM

The Lin angle gives the Knicks a piece to make a trade I didn't think they had a crack at before. That said, I can't see anyone taking Amare's contract. It's uninsured right?

#6 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:48 AM

I can't imagine Orlando, or anyone else really, taking on Amares contract right now.


Well, they'd at least be dumping Turkoglu's in return, and Amare is an Orlando native, plus they'd be getting the worldwide phenomenon of Jeremy Lin. You might be right, but I'd certainly try if I was Grunwald.

Yep, Jose, uninsured.

#7 Brickowski

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:53 AM

Rumor from a Spanish website: http://www.elnuevodi...ea-1198812.html

Lakers trade: Bynum, Gasol
Lakers receive: Howard,Beasley,Barea

Magic trade: Howard
Magic receive: Bynum,Derrick Williams

Twolves trade: Beasley, Derrick Williams,Barea
Twolves receive: Gasol

Great trade for the Lakers, good for the Magic (except that they're still stuck with Hedo)--but why does MN do it?

#8 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:01 AM

That's pretty interesting, Gasol and Rubio have some experience playing together in and for Spain.

#9 Brickowski

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:10 AM

That's pretty interesting, Gasol and Rubio have some experience playing together in and for Spain.


Yes, and on second thought, maybe Gasol puts the Wolves into "win now" mode and perhaps helps convince Love to stay put. But where does it leave Pekovic?

There was speculation on Real GM that someone from this Spanish site knows Barea's agent, since this site first broke the news that Barea was going to sign with the Wolves.

#10 BigSoxFan


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:24 AM

I think that if the Magic could get Andrew Bynum and Derrick Williams for a clearly departing Howard, the deal would be done already.

#11 ElUno20

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:18 PM

Yes, and on second thought, maybe Gasol puts the Wolves into "win now" mode and perhaps helps convince Love to stay put. But where does it leave Pekovic?

There was speculation on Real GM that someone from this Spanish site knows Barea's agent, since this site first broke the news that Barea was going to sign with the Wolves.


love already reupped

#12 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:23 PM

love already reupped


He has an opt-out after three years, which people assume he'll use because MIN didn't offer him the five year deal he wanted (because each team can only offer one of those, and they're presumably saving it for Rubio). Landing another key piece besides he and Rubio in the interim could help convince him to stay past that.

#13 Brickowski

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:25 PM

Yes, but with an opt out clause after year 3 (when he will be 26 years old).

#14 jose melendez


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:39 PM

Isn't Bynum up after next year so the magic have to do this shit again?

#15 collings94

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:33 PM

I can't see Howard being moved at the deadline. I just think the combination of where Dwight is willing to resign, and the limited number of teams the Magic are comfortable trading him to is too complicated. And I like what someone else said that if some of these rumored deals where true, Howard would have already been traded by now.

#16 Tyrone Biggums


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:53 PM

If Howard isn't moved by the deadline, then that would probably rule out the Lakers...although they could do a sign and trade in the offseason it would be more beneficial for them to do it now. Honestly? I think he ends up in Brooklyn, Dallas, or Boston. Those teams have the cap room to play with in the offseason. Rondo will probably be traded...although I think anywhere Dwight goes D-Will will have to follow as well. But the only team at the deadline I could see acquiring him is the Lakers.

Edited by Tyrone Biggums, 25 February 2012 - 01:55 PM.


#17 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:19 PM

And I like what someone else said that if some of these rumored deals where true, Howard would have already been traded by now.


But the reason that doesn't hold much water is that Orlando was always hosting the All-Star weekend this weekend, and wanted Howard around for that even if he was leaving soon after. Also, I think March 1 is when offseason acquisitions become eligible to be moved for the first time, so that opens up more possibilities.

#18 nighthob

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:00 PM

Isn't Bynum up after next year so the magic have to do this shit again?


Yeah, that's the problem with all the Laker dreams. Trading Howard for Bynum and flotsam means they either have to commit $90 million plus to a guy with an injury history longer than John Holmes and who's never been motivated outside contract years or try to find someone to give them something worthwhile for a guy with those two ginormous red flags.

#19 kazuneko

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:36 PM

Haven't head it rumored anywhere so it doesn't seem like its gonna happen, but a trade between the Clipps and Magic -centered around Griffin and Howard -is a better trade for both teams than any trade getting circulation in the rumor mill.
Griffin is a perfect fit for Orlando - a young star that they can build around - while Howard is a huge upgrade for the Clipps (especially on the defensive side - where he is incomparably better than Griffin) . Howard would instantly make the Clipps favorites for the Western Conference crown and serious contenders for a championship.
It also works pretty easily under the cap (if you add in Gomes and Foye)....

Edited by kazuneko, 25 February 2012 - 03:38 PM.


#20 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:16 PM

You wouldn't need Gomes and Foye because it would have to be Griffin and DeAndre Jordan, as there's no way Jordan and Howard could play together. That one definitely makes sense for both teams, assuming Howard agreed to extend there.

#21 nighthob

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:16 PM

Haven't head it rumored anywhere so it doesn't seem like its gonna happen, but a trade between the Clipps and Magic -centered around Griffin and Howard -is a better trade for both teams than any trade getting circulation in the rumor mill.
Griffin is a perfect fit for Orlando - a young star that they can build around - while Howard is a huge upgrade for the Clipps (especially on the defensive side - where he is incomparably better than Griffin) . Howard would instantly make the Clipps favorites for the Western Conference crown and serious contenders for a championship.
It also works pretty easily under the cap (if you add in Gomes and Foye)....


While I agree that it makes a certain amount of sense, it would leave the Clippers gambling a lot on K-Mart. I think it would need to be a three way with Jordan going out for the necessary depth pieces.

#22 collings94

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:20 PM

But the reason that doesn't hold much water is that Orlando was always hosting the All-Star weekend this weekend, and wanted Howard around for that even if he was leaving soon after. Also, I think March 1 is when offseason acquisitions become eligible to be moved for the first time, so that opens up more possibilities.


I don't know, if the Lakers or someone offered them a good deal, I don't think Orlando would just go "Nah, we got to hold on to him for All-Star Weekend."

#23 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:23 PM

I don't know, if the Lakers or someone offered them a good deal, I don't think Orlando would just go "Nah, we got to hold on to him for All-Star Weekend."


Of course they would, it's not like the Lakers can go elsewhere in the meantime to get a top 2 player in the league. The consensus all season has been that he wouldn't be traded until after the ASG, because it would be too embarrassing for Orlando to have him play wearing another uniform.

#24 kazuneko

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:45 PM

While I agree that it makes a certain amount of sense, it would leave the Clippers gambling a lot on K-Mart. I think it would need to be a three way with Jordan going out for the necessary depth pieces.

Howard is plenty mobile enough to line-up at PF....
A starting tandem of Jordan and Howard would be the best defensive frontline in the game...

#25 collings94

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

Of course they would, it's not like the Lakers can go elsewhere in the meantime to get a top 2 player in the league. The consensus all season has been that he wouldn't be traded until after the ASG, because it would be too embarrassing for Orlando to have him play wearing another uniform.


While I agree it would be embarrassing for Orlando to watch him play for another team, I still don't think they would jeopardize the potential trade. Maybe the Kobe says things to the front office and the Lakers call off the trade while their waiting for the All Star break to end.

#26 Reardons Beard

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:03 PM

http://llcdn8.twitvi...ab1a0799b29e3af

Rondo and Howard get along fine!

#27 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:53 PM

While I agree it would be embarrassing for Orlando to watch him play for another team, I still don't think they would jeopardize the potential trade. Maybe the Kobe says things to the front office and the Lakers call off the trade while their waiting for the All Star break to end.


This isn't my opinion, this is what every article all season has said when talking about this situation. One example:

"The consensus around the league is that the Magic won't deal Howard before it hosts the All-Star Game on Feb. 26 to avoid the prospect of having him return to Orlando in another team's uniform."

http://sportsillustr...94715/index.htm

#28 86spike


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:33 PM

The March 1 date is the most important. No one who signed as a FA or a rookie this season can be traded until then.

Orlando is going to shop the fuck out of Dwight and there are a lot of expiring one-year contracts out there that can't move until 3/1. Even if LAL, LAC, DAL, BOS, NYK or NJN (etc) have an offer ready for Orlando that doesn't include any of those Immovable-until-3/1 deals, why would they take it before other teams are able to get in the bidding due to that timeframe?

We should all expect Orlando to solicit offers from every corner of the league and try to leverage all the interested parties against each other right up until the Trade Deadline. Then, and IMO only then, will they decide between moving him and keeping him.

Next week will begin a flood of rumors up to the deadline. Count on it.

#29 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:23 PM

Thanks for chiming in, 86S, I know you've been following this pretty seriously for a while. What do you think is the best offer your Nets can (or will, I guess) make?

#30 collings94

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:40 PM

This isn't my opinion, this is what every article all season has said when talking about this situation. One example:

"The consensus around the league is that the Magic won't deal Howard before it hosts the All-Star Game on Feb. 26 to avoid the prospect of having him return to Orlando in another team's uniform."

http://sportsillustr...94715/index.htm


Ok, I guess that is the consensus.

I don't think it's smart to turn down valuable trades just so you don't feel awkward during the All Star game though.

#31 SemperFidelisSox


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:54 PM

“The Nets think they’re getting him,’’ one Eastern Conference GM said Friday.


NY Daily News


That article also mentions Dallas as another possible landing spot, with more 'anonymous GM' quotes about the Mavs wanting to put together their own Big 3.


Edited by SemperFidelisSox, 25 February 2012 - 08:54 PM.


#32 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:13 PM

Dallas is the likely landing spot for Howard/Williams if Howard doesn't get traded, IMO, but they don't seem to have almost any real trade assets.

The NY papers have been quoting Nets people for months saying they're confident, but I don't really get why unless they know that Howard has told Otis Smith he'll only extend with them.

#33 jon abbey


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:15 PM

I don't think it's smart to turn down valuable trades just so you don't feel awkward during the All Star game though.


It's also what spike said, a lot of guys can't be traded until 3/1 (Tyson Chandler is in this category, maybe all offseason acquisitions?).

#34 Sprowl


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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:17 PM

You wouldn't need Gomes and Foye because it would have to be Griffin and DeAndre Jordan, as there's no way Jordan and Howard could play together. That one definitely makes sense for both teams, assuming Howard agreed to extend there.

Jordan is the closest thing the league has to a Baby Howard. His rebounding isn't as up to Howard's level but on defense he's a real force inside. Given a little acclimation time, Chris Paul could do wonderful things for Dwight Howard, but Griffin and Jordan is too much for LAC to give up in exchange for Howard. Griffin has star power, and the Clippers know it.

The March 1 date is the most important. No one who signed as a FA or a rookie this season can be traded until then.

Orlando is going to shop the fuck out of Dwight and there are a lot of expiring one-year contracts out there that can't move until 3/1. Even if LAL, LAC, DAL, BOS, NYK or NJN (etc) have an offer ready for Orlando that doesn't include any of those Immovable-until-3/1 deals, why would they take it before other teams are able to get in the bidding due to that timeframe?

We should all expect Orlando to solicit offers from every corner of the league and try to leverage all the interested parties against each other right up until the Trade Deadline. Then, and IMO only then, will they decide between moving him and keeping him.

Next week will begin a flood of rumors up to the deadline. Count on it.


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#35 86spike


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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:38 AM

Thanks for chiming in, 86S, I know you've been following this pretty seriously for a while. What do you think is the best offer your Nets can (or will, I guess) make?


I think the Nets will put everything on the table except for Deron Williams. Anyone else could move.

I think Billy King will be looking to do a 3 or 4 team trade (just like the one they almost consummated in December before Orlando ownership balked) and he'll be trying to turn NJ's pile of picks and expiring contracts into enough talent to package with Lopez and rookie Marshon Brooks and get Orlando to jump.

That said, I have no clue if that will do it.

The obvious huge x-factors are whether or not Howard has or will pull a Melo and tell his GM he only has one team he wants... And whether or not NJ has been given assurances that Dwight will sign with them as a FA if he's not traded. Of course, even if they got that assurance, you simply can't take that for granted since things could totally change with Dwight.

In short, I expect NJ to try to move mountains. I don't know if it will work, though.

I still think Orlando hanging onto him for the rest of the year is a large possibility.

#36 jon abbey


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Posted 26 February 2012 - 11:40 AM

While the once reliable Peter Vecsey seems to have turned into the Peter Gammons of hoops, he addresses this situation today in his column so at least worth checking out:

http://www.nypost.co...wwG5y96M97eB9pO

#37 86spike


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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:23 PM

More Peter Vecsey rumor mongering today:

There are renewed rumblings about the Warriors possibly getting Brook Lopez from the Nets in a multi-team deal involving Howard. That would cost them big time, though; Monta Ellis would be part of the Magic’s compensation.


http://www.nypost.co...8brFVhCAXnTQO/1


#38 jon abbey


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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:18 PM

Why does Dallas think they can fit both Howard and D-Will into their cap in the offseason when they're already committed to $41M for 5 other players?

#39 86spike


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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:43 PM

Why does Dallas think they can fit both Howard and D-Will into their cap in the offseason when they're already committed to $41M for 5 other players?


The fantasy scenarios I've seen require them to amnesty Haywood and find a trade partner for Marion's bloated 2013 contract without getting any salary back. Not bloody likely.

Speaking of Dallas... Brook Lopez has dropped 21 points on them in just the first half tonight. I think Lopez really really wants to move to Orlando so he can hang out at Disney World all the time.

Lopez finished up with 38. Good audition for the Magic, big fella. Now go hit the showers and then read your comic books.

Edited by 86spike, 28 February 2012 - 11:19 PM.


#40 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:51 AM

The fantasy scenarios I've seen require them to amnesty Haywood and find a trade partner for Marion's bloated 2013 contract without getting any salary back. Not bloody likely.

Speaking of Dallas... Brook Lopez has dropped 21 points on them in just the first half tonight. I think Lopez really really wants to move to Orlando so he can hang out at Disney World all the time.

Lopez finished up with 38. Good audition for the Magic, big fella. Now go hit the showers and then read your comic books.


This actually doesn't seem all that unlikely to me anymore. Marion's been a very useful player this year, and certainly was a very useful player last year. He guards 4 positions, rebounds well, and has proven that he can disrupt Durant and James as well as anybody. If he were a useless player at this point in his career, sure I'd say it was unlikely somebody took him on, but if he continues to play like he is now, I think there are a handful of teams that would take him for nothing.

#41 86spike


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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:57 AM

SI.com breaks down the actual numbers on Dallas trying to flush their whole roster to sign Dwight and
Deron.

http://nba-point-for...deron-williams/

It's a great read and very informative.

Basically, since Dirk is already signed to a huge deal, they are unable to do what the Heat did in having all 3 guys take small paycuts to play together. Dirk is locked in, so both Dwight and Deron would have to take pretty sizable cuts while Dirk makes the max.

If Howard doesn't get traded, he can either join Deron in Brooklyn (with a full roster around him including Brook Lopez (although his a RFA, so it's not a given that he can still fit on the roster if someone else tries to sign him), MarShon Brooks and Anthony Morrow - and NJ's lottery pick and some remaining flexibility to make trades) or he and Deron can go to a gutted Mavs team to play with an aging Dirk for less money.

I don't think Dallas is a no brainer when factoring all that in.

Edited by 86spike, 29 February 2012 - 10:57 AM.


#42 collings94

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:27 AM

SI.com breaks down the actual numbers on Dallas trying to flush their whole roster to sign Dwight and
Deron.

http://nba-point-for...deron-williams/

It's a great read and very informative.

Basically, since Dirk is already signed to a huge deal, they are unable to do what the Heat did in having all 3 guys take small paycuts to play together. Dirk is locked in, so both Dwight and Deron would have to take pretty sizable cuts while Dirk makes the max.

If Howard doesn't get traded, he can either join Deron in Brooklyn (with a full roster around him including Brook Lopez (although his a RFA, so it's not a given that he can still fit on the roster if someone else tries to sign him), MarShon Brooks and Anthony Morrow - and NJ's lottery pick and some remaining flexibility to make trades) or he and Deron can go to a gutted Mavs team to play with an aging Dirk for less money.

I don't think Dallas is a no brainer when factoring all that in.


If Dwight once to win, he should go to Dallas, that's a no brainer. Dirk ages more gracefully then most NBA players because no matter how old he gets, he's still going to be 7 feet (for a while, you now until he's in his 50's and starts shrinking) and he's still going to be a good shooter.

#43 jose melendez


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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:51 PM

You know, wha the NBA, as a league needs, is for one team to refuse to make a deal for a guy going to free agency when they don't get absolute fair value. Then, once a player actually has to take a $30 million hair cut to change teams, maybe other players will worry that it's a possibility. Right now, Howard and everyone else has complete confidence that the team will give in eventually, which gives them huge power. Eventually, some team needs to bet that $30 million is a lot of money.

#44 Brickowski

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:18 PM

You know, wha the NBA, as a league needs, is for one team to refuse to make a deal for a guy going to free agency when they don't get absolute fair value. Then, once a player actually has to take a $30 million hair cut to change teams, maybe other players will worry that it's a possibility. Right now, Howard and everyone else has complete confidence that the team will give in eventually, which gives them huge power. Eventually, some team needs to bet that $30 million is a lot of money.


The owners talk tough in negotiations, but cave in the real world.

#45 jon abbey


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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:26 PM

Then, once a player actually has to take a $30 million hair cut to change teams, maybe other players will worry that it's a possibility. Right now, Howard and everyone else has complete confidence that the team will give in eventually, which gives them huge power. Eventually, some team needs to bet that $30 million is a lot of money.


Most of that $30M is the extra year at the end, Howard is only 26 and will presumably get max again in his next deal, so I think the loss is more towards $5-10M, not really much of a deterrent.

#46 86spike


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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:10 PM

Owners don't want to get kicked in the dick the way Lebron did to Dan Gilbert... So they cave and try to get something in return.

#47 Jed Zeppelin


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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:39 PM

I love Monta Ellis, but acquiring him to appease Howard would basically be Antawn Jamison to Cleveland 2.0 with a slightly better contract. I'm not sure what GS would even have to gain in this scenario unless a third team jumps in. Maybe they could ask for future 1sts and bank on Howard leaving and Orlando sucking after he's gone.

#48 nighthob

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:37 AM

On the other hand it would give the Magic a closer.

#49 dolomite133


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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:51 AM

I'm finding Dwight Howard's rumored "I want to be the man" attitude disconcerting. If it's true that he won't accept a secondary role, and isn't willing to share alpha dog status, then he can go fuck himself and enjoy winning zero titles. You become the face of the franchise through your play, not by avoiding playing with other talent.

#50 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:57 AM

I'm finding Dwight Howard's rumored "I want to be the man" attitude disconcerting. If it's true that he won't accept a secondary role, and isn't willing to share alpha dog status, then he can go fuck himself and enjoy winning zero titles. You become the face of the franchise through your play, not by avoiding playing with other talent.


Being an NBA star must be pretty confusing.

For the last year, LeBron James has been roundly criticized for joining Miami and not going/staying somewhere where he'd be "the man". Now Dwight Howard states that he wants to be the man, and he's an asshole for being unwilling to accept a secondary role and not wanting to be a winner.