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The fall of RIM


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#1 Foulkey Reese


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:50 AM

What a great article from The Verge. Well worth the long read.

Research In Motion, whose BlackBerry phones pioneered wireless email, no longer holds the commanding heights in the smartphone market. With Android, iOS, and even Windows Phone gaining market share, the Waterloo, Ontario, company finds itself in a battle for relevancy. The past year has been especially hard on the once-innovative RIM, but it may be at a turning point. Or the beginning of the end.


http://www.theverge....lie-lost-empire

#2 santadevil

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:31 AM

Unless they come up with something and innovative that everyone wants, this company is done.

I used to root for RIM, being from Canada, but this last year (even last two years) has been utter garbage for them.
Market share is way down and their devices just can't compete against the offerings from Android and iOS.

It's sad to see, but I also believe it's inevitable that they will fail.

#3 mt8thsw9th


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:31 AM

I think I've had about 5 "goodbye BlackBerry" posts in my Facebook feed in the past month. My company recently allowed iPhones and other smartphones access to Exchange instead of just BlackBerry. Most people I know with BlackBerrys are just holding out until their contract is up. A friend I was hanging out with a couple weeks ago had to battery pull his Torch about 3 times over the course of the night. And so on.

These are all obviously anecdotal, but I'm sure most of us see similar things regarding BlackBerry all of the time. Combine that with objective evidence of the death of the company, and I can't imagine any "turning point". This has really just been a protracted death that began around the release of the Storm.

#4 johnmd20


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:37 AM

I think I've had about 5 "goodbye BlackBerry" posts in my Facebook feed in the past month. My company recently allowed iPhones and other smartphones access to Exchange instead of just BlackBerry. Most people I know with BlackBerrys are just holding out until their contract is up. A friend I was hanging out with a couple weeks ago had to battery pull his Torch about 3 times over the course of the night. And so on.

These are all obviously anecdotal, but I'm sure most of us see similar things regarding BlackBerry all of the time. Combine that with objective evidence of the death of the company, and I can't imagine any "turning point". This has really just been a protracted death that began around the release of the Storm.


They are PALM from 5 years ago, fighting to be relevant again but too far behind to catch up. Either someone buys the company or it will slowly wither away. The difference between the best RIMM phone and the best Android and iPhone's is humongous. RIMM's phones aren't as good as the iPhone from 2008. That is comical. How is that possible? And there is STILL no App store.

My company also changed and allows the GOOD app, where you can get your company Email on Android or iPhone. The speed with which people are abandoning their Blackberries is breathtaking. Usain Bolt is jealous at how fast it happened. And the next generation views Blackberries like people now view an AOL Email address. They will never buy a Blackberry.

Me personally, I got the GOOD app last Thursday and canceled my Blackberry on Friday. I was very happy doing so. AT&T didn't even fight me when I canceled, they were like, "Ok, you have a Blackberry, I understand why you want out, we won't even try to keep you." And now I will never buy a Blackberry again.

#5 jayhoz


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:45 AM

Corp doesn't want to hear it, but they are teatering on the brink.

http://blog.nielsen....he-most-wanted/

According to The Nielsen Company’s monthly surveys of U.S. mobile consumers from July-September 2010, consumers planning on getting a new smartphone had a very clear preference: A third (33%) wanted an Apple iPhone. Slightly more than a quarter (26%) said they desired a device with the Google Android operating system (OS). And 13 percent said they wanted a RIM Blackberry.
But consumer preferences can be fickle. Those same surveys for January 2011 – March 2011 show just how much things have changed: According to the latest figures, 31 percent of consumers who plan to get a new smartphone indicated Android was now their preferred OS. Apple’s iOS has slipped slightly in popularity to 30 percent and RIM Blackberry is down to 11 percent. Almost 20 percent of consumers are unsure of what to choose next


http://www.brighthan...ogle Android OS

Almost 40% of BlackBerry users indicated they would choose an iPhone if they could dump their current device, and 34% would choose an Android OS smartphone, according to recent numbers from Crowd Science.
"These results show that the restlessness of BlackBerry users with their current brand hasn't just been driven by the allure of iPhone," said Crowd Science CEO John Martin. "Rather, BlackBerry as a brand just isn't garnering the loyalty seen with other mobile operating systems."



#6 PortlandSoxFan


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:47 AM

They still have a big international presence though, no? In places that don't have such highly developed wireless networks?

#7 teddykgb

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:19 PM

An interesting what if is to wonder if RIM had had the foresight to buy Palm instead of HP, could they have made the WebOS platform relevant? At the time, it seemed like WebOS was good enough to play in a new world, but RIM must have felt it could develop better internally, which seems to have obviously been a mistake. A Palm infused Blackberry may have been the marriage that might have kept some relevance, but that ship has since sailed.

What I find most fascinating is how RIM lost touch with its customers. They were so visionary in realizing that the pairing of tremendous battery life with everywhere access to data was a killer combination -- and they printed money as a result. That they weren't able to see the future or react to it rapidly as it unfolded suggests a company that must have suffered from some brain drain or other hidden catastrophe that left it unable to think when it needed that ability the most. The status quo that they chose was just about the only path forward that guaranteed failure.

#8 Blacken


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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:39 PM

They still have a big international presence though, no? In places that don't have such highly developed wireless networks?

They do have a strong international presence (more due to price and durability than wireless network tech--for example, AirTel in Nigeria has something like 50% 3G coverage and is shooting for 80% by year's end), but Android is pretty quickly pushing down into that price territory as well. Durability, not so much, but that may or may not matter.

#9 GlenMorangie

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:01 PM

The last strand of their lifeline was the Enterprise/Government-preferred encryption & security.

Now that the GOOD app is becoming ubiquitous, and with the freaking U.S. Military about to introduce Android devices, it's over for RIM. They're getting what they deserve. Their products are outdated before they hit the shelves and they have almost zero defining characteristics.

I mean, come on, you're late to the tablet game and then you release one without native email? Get the hell out of here with that garbage.

#10 EvilEmpire

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:44 AM

Now that the GOOD app is becoming ubiquitous, and with the freaking U.S. Military about to introduce Android devices, it's over for RIM. They're getting what they deserve. Their products are outdated before they hit the shelves and they have almost zero defining characteristics.

I mean, come on, you're late to the tablet game and then you release one without native email? Get the hell out of here with that garbage.


I'm surprised that RIM didn't work harder to keep its niche market with the military and security services since the iphone can't compete as well there.

#11 johnmd20


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:25 AM

I'm surprised that RIM didn't work harder to keep its niche market with the military and security services since the iphone can't compete as well there.


I think the point is, RIMM didn't work harder to compete in any of their markets. Since the release of the Storm in late 2008, (a truly awful phone) the company hasn't brought a single phone to market that was interesting or impressive. I guess maybe the Bold last year was a decent phone but once you compare that screen to any of the Android phones or the iPhone, you're either using that phone for Emailing or you're not using it at all. Hence, market share plummeting faster than the Sox in September.

#12 CoRP

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:29 AM

Corp doesn't want to hear it, but they are teatering on the brink.

The only reason I don't want to hear it is because we covered our short. I'd love to see it pop so we can short it again. I still love my BB Bold and Playbook combo though. And the new OS 2 is great...for me.

#13 crow216


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:42 AM

Gott

The only reason I don't want to hear it is because we covered our short. I'd love to see it pop so we can short it again. I still love my BB Bold and Playbook combo though. And the new OS 2 is great...for me.


Just gotta use what makes you happy.

RIMM reminds me of Nextel. They had an incredibly strong niche market and just refused to adapt their hardware to what the consumer needed. They felt their service was irreplacable until it was far too late. BB and Nextel suffer from the same problem. Terrible software, terrible hardware, and terrible adaptation to the market.

#14 Rudi Fingers

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:44 AM

The only reason I don't want to hear it is because we covered our short. I'd love to see it pop so we can short it again. I still love my BB Bold and Playbook combo though. And the new OS 2 is great...for me.


No reason we can't enjoy our fiddles while RIMM burns.

Have you tried remote controlling your Playbook from your Bold yet (it's part of the new Bridge)? It's surprisingly useful for banging out documents. It's also useful forwhen you connect the PlayBook to an HDTV (using the Playbook's HDMI out) to do presentations or play games...

#15 Kremlin Watcher

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:30 PM

Compare RIM's experience to Nokia's. Both made bets on proprietary operating system technology then failed to adapt quickly when better competing systems came out. Nokia is now adapting with the switch from Symbian to Windows, and I have heard that the new Nokia Lumias are pretty damn good phones. Nokia survives to fight on in the endless evolution of technology. RIM probably doesn't. Says a lot about tech companies making bets and being able to adapt those bets in a sector that changes so quickly.

#16 wade boggs chicken dinner


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:06 PM

OTOH, where was RIMM supposed to go? As I understand it, the things that people really value out of their BB - security, keyboard, battery life - have made it really difficult to upgrade their OS, the functionality of the phone, and its performance.

I also think the company banked heavily on the success of their "clickable" touchscreen phone - boy, that didn't turn out all too well.

Also, I think Boy Genius had a recent report that the development of the QNX-based operating system isn't going too well.

#17 BucketOBalls


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:19 PM

All this was true when I ended up dumping the Palm 2 years ago(ended up with Android). There was nothing fundamentally preventing the other phones from doing what BB did so it was just a matter of time really. Once that happened, Blackberry lost it's appeal. I do think their whole focus on style and not alienating existing customers hurt them in that they stubbornly stuck with that keyboard based form factor. Everyone else wanted bigger screens, which also opened up the app market

#18 AlNipper49


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:03 PM

OTOH, where was RIMM supposed to go? As I understand it, the things that people really value out of their BB - security, keyboard, battery life - have made it really difficult to upgrade their OS, the functionality of the phone, and its performance.

I also think the company banked heavily on the success of their "clickable" touchscreen phone - boy, that didn't turn out all too well.

Also, I think Boy Genius had a recent report that the development of the QNX-based operating system isn't going too well.


For starters they could have made BES free sooner than they did. (granted, it's still technically not free for a certain amount of devices but whatever). It wasn't until the ActiveSync train left the station that they pivoted that way.

They absolutely could have done a lot of things. For example, we get a ton more complaints about iPhones/Androids than Blackberry from a usability standpoint (business-centric). A good example are contacts -- GOOD LUCK figuring out what contacts go where with three email addresses and iCloud on a PC. I know with some research makes this go away, but most people are fearful of such things and had RIMM be just 'kinda' worse than the others then these advantages could have been their saving grace.

The app ecosystem/management was significantly ahead of everyone elses from a private perspective for a long time. The closed Apple ecosystem was something they could and should have attacked stronger with releases of their own. Instead what do they have? nada, not even a warning shot in terms of viable app stores.

#19 Three10toLeft

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:56 PM

For starters they could have made BES free sooner than they did. (granted, it's still technically not free for a certain amount of devices but whatever). It wasn't until the ActiveSync train left the station that they pivoted that way.

They absolutely could have done a lot of things. For example, we get a ton more complaints about iPhones/Androids than Blackberry from a usability standpoint (business-centric). A good example are contacts -- GOOD LUCK figuring out what contacts go where with three email addresses and iCloud on a PC. I know with some research makes this go away, but most people are fearful of such things and had RIMM be just 'kinda' worse than the others then these advantages could have been their saving grace.

The app ecosystem/management was significantly ahead of everyone elses from a private perspective for a long time. The closed Apple ecosystem was something they could and should have attacked stronger with releases of their own. Instead what do they have? nada, not even a warning shot in terms of viable app stores.


They did differentiate themselves though. RIM has "super apps".

One of the grandest/most ridiculous public proclamations I've heard Lazaridis spout off.

#20 crow216


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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:24 PM

OTOH, where was RIMM supposed to go? As I understand it, the things that people really value out of their BB - security, keyboard, battery life - have made it really difficult to upgrade their OS, the functionality of the phone, and its performance.

I also think the company banked heavily on the success of their "clickable" touchscreen phone - boy, that didn't turn out all too well.

Also, I think Boy Genius had a recent report that the development of the QNX-based operating system isn't going too well.


I owned the Storm and the bold. The issue with the phones for me was the hardware. They were incredibly slow and laggy. (Ever turn off a BB and try to turn it back on? 15 minutes). Not to mention that they never included enough RAM in their phones to adapt to the app store and I was constantly having to toy with my memory and keep an eye out for what programs were running. It was a chore to run the operating system.

#21 TomRicardo


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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:16 AM

Best part of that article is the board member saying "So we're supposed to hand it over to children, or morons from the outside who will destroy the company?"

No you should probably continue handling that internally. Out of touch board always helps situations

#22 johnmd20


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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:02 PM

Best part of that article is the board member saying "So we're supposed to hand it over to children, or morons from the outside who will destroy the company?"

No you should probably continue handling that internally. Out of touch board always helps situations


I am reminded of History of the World Part I when the two Roman soldiers are smoking weed and talking to each other.

One asks the other, "You think it will fall?"

The other responds, "What?"

"The Empire."

He looks back hazily and says, "Fuuuuuuuuck it."

That's the board. Fuuuuuuck it.

#23 Hyde Park Factor


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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:57 AM

At Bat 12 will not be available for the Blackberry this season (at least not as of right now), which I find highly disappointing. Despite their well known and publicized problems, I've been pretty happy with the Torch itself, but RIM tech support is a joke.

#24 Three10toLeft

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:52 AM

They released this article in Amazon's Kindle ebook store if anyone is interested... I'm about to download it. Only a few bucks, I really love that site/crew of writers so I figured I'd support them a little more.

#25 behindthepen


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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:40 AM

Apparently the blindness to reality is pretty pervasive. I talked to a very large RIMM customer last week. They don't love iphones or Androids, but the reality is that over time their users are migrating over. Maybe only a few percent a year right now, but it's up from 0.

As much as they fear/dislike iphones, they have nothing but disdain for RIMM, since they see at all levels that RIMM believes they are still on the right path. The path where they are ignoring the needs and desires of both their users and the guys who pay their bills.

#26 donutogre

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:51 AM

Adding insult to injury, Apple outsold RIM on RIM's home turf last year: http://www.theverge....ackberry-canada

Also, glad to hear people are enjoying The Verge. I'm one of the writers, so lots of the less exciting news posts you're seeing are from me :) Hope to get into longer-form reviews and features soon. Anyhow, thanks for reading.

#27 FenwayFrenzy

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 12:09 PM

At Bat 12 will not be available for the Blackberry this season (at least not as of right now), which I find highly disappointing. Despite their well known and publicized problems, I've been pretty happy with the Torch itself, but RIM tech support is a joke.

Blackberry version of At Bat 12 just released today:

https://twitter.com/#!/MLB/status/182860187915395075
link to tweet
link to tweet

IT'S HERE: @MLB.com At Bat 12 now available for BlackBerry phones. Visit Blackberry App World for more info: http://atmlb.com/GMHm1z



#28 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 22 March 2012 - 12:29 PM

The one and only reason I like my blackberry over all others is the physical keyboard. As soon as another company recognizes that yes, there IS a segment that won't "get used to" the virtual keyboard, I'll move to another device. What I think the situation is, is that the physical keyboard device is more expensive to produce and lower margin to sell and they want to wean us off it - but I don't care. I still want one. There's no reason you can't make an keyboarded i-phone, in the same form factor as a blackberry or a keyboarded android (I understand Motorola has one, but it's hard to find)...and no, I don't want a slide out. It will break. They always do.

#29 TomRicardo


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Posted 22 March 2012 - 12:48 PM

. What I think the situation is, is that the physical keyboard device is more expensive to produce and lower margin to sell and they want to wean us off it - but I don't care. I still want one. There's no reason you can't make an keyboarded i-phone, in the same form factor as a blackberry or a keyboarded android (I understand Motorola has one, but it's hard to find)...and no, I don't want a slide out. It will break. They always do.


There is almost no demand. It is like refusing to get pizza from any place that doesn't serve anchovies.

#30 jayhoz


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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:00 PM

The one and only reason I like my blackberry over all others is the physical keyboard. As soon as another company recognizes that yes, there IS a segment that won't "get used to" the virtual keyboard, I'll move to another device. What I think the situation is, is that the physical keyboard device is more expensive to produce and lower margin to sell and they want to wean us off it - but I don't care. I still want one. There's no reason you can't make an keyboarded i-phone, in the same form factor as a blackberry or a keyboarded android (I understand Motorola has one, but it's hard to find)...and no, I don't want a slide out. It will break. They always do.


No one does it because BB has cornered the market on small screen phones with physical keyboards and they have been hammered for it since there is no demand for such a product.

There are plenty of Androids with keyboards: http://www.androidau...compared-10391/

#31 Bongorific

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:24 PM

There is a demand for it. It's not high enough demand for Apple to make a second device, but it's the reason RIMM didn't go extinct 5 years ago. I've seen a lot of colleges in my field that simply refuse to switch as they can type and handle e-mail more efficiently on their BB. That's not to say someone wouldn't be able to type faster on an Iphone than the BB. Rather, the BB user has become so efficient on the keyboard over the past 8 or 9 years that he or she won't invest the time into learning a new method. RIMM could have prevented extinction if they had even a mediocre operating system. They had no chance at being a mobile leader without a better app store and other services typical consumers look for, but they could have survived. Their problem is that even the user base who solely use a mobile device for communication are turning their backs on an OS that is unstable and hardware that is slow.

#32 OilCanShotTupac


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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:56 PM

The one and only reason I like my blackberry over all others is the physical keyboard. As soon as another company recognizes that yes, there IS a segment that won't "get used to" the virtual keyboard, I'll move to another device. What I think the situation is, is that the physical keyboard device is more expensive to produce and lower margin to sell and they want to wean us off it - but I don't care. I still want one. There's no reason you can't make an keyboarded i-phone, in the same form factor as a blackberry or a keyboarded android (I understand Motorola has one, but it's hard to find)...and no, I don't want a slide out. It will break. They always do.


I am the same way, and I have a T-Mobile MyTouch Slide. I think it's great. Of course the 3G is now slow compared to what's out there, so I will upgrade to the 4G. The slide is very solid; I've had it for 2+ years without a hint of a problem.

#33 zenter


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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:10 PM

I am the same way, and I have a T-Mobile MyTouch Slide. I think it's great. Of course the 3G is now slow compared to what's out there, so I will upgrade to the 4G. The slide is very solid; I've had it for 2+ years without a hint of a problem.


The one and only reason I like my blackberry over all others is the physical keyboard. As soon as another company recognizes that yes, there IS a segment that won't "get used to" the virtual keyboard, I'll move to another device. What I think the situation is, is that the physical keyboard device is more expensive to produce and lower margin to sell and they want to wean us off it - but I don't care. I still want one. There's no reason you can't make an keyboarded i-phone, in the same form factor as a blackberry or a keyboarded android (I understand Motorola has one, but it's hard to find)...and no, I don't want a slide out. It will break. They always do.


By far the best physical keyboarded phone I ever used or had was the Nokia E71. To me, the entire tactile experience was better than any phone that lacks a touchscreen. Playing with bberry was (for me) like trading down from a BMW to a Kia. Bberry's killer app was solid and realtime email integration - unmatched in its time. While the way Nokia stopped innovating pushed me to Android and Swype, Bberry never had anything but the phenomenal email integration. Bberry needs to adapt or it will die. They should adopt Windows Phone or more likely Android (w physical keyboards and not), hook in their existing mail servers, provide higher-quality builds, and try partnering with Cisco or some other network-infrastructure company.

If Nokia does even a little of this - especially releasing a WP7-Apollo phone with a physical keyboard - Bberry's existence is almost completely superfluous.

#34 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:12 PM

No one does it because BB has cornered the market on small screen phones with physical keyboards and they have been hammered for it since there is no demand for such a product.

There are plenty of Androids with keyboards: http://www.androidau...compared-10391/

Every one of those is a slider. I'm sorry, but there's demand for the blackberry form factor. It probably IS what has kept RIM in business. If another company wants to put RIM out of its misery, introduce this form factor in a top of the line Android. I don't want a slider. The moving parts will break, and it's thicker.

#35 Rudi Fingers

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:17 PM

No one does it because BB has cornered the market on small screen phones with physical keyboards and they have been hammered for it since there is no demand for such a product.

There are plenty of Androids with keyboards: http://www.androidau...compared-10391/


It's not just the existence of the physical keyboard - it's the power user experience, felt in the way the keys feel in your hand, the way you can automatically end a sentence with two spacebar presses, the way you can push-to-capitalize, the way you can use keyboard shortcuts to navigate -- all stuff that makes me type incredibly fast on a Blackberry. Keyboards just don't work the same in the Android universe - where all the smart user interface programmers are focusing on other things. On the other hand, the all-touch blackberries are inferior to the iPhone and Android in terms of the virtual keyboard experience. As for the E71 - I never tried it, so it's hard for me to comment.

As for speed - no question - blackberries are slow, except for the 9930. A 9930 (1.2ghz single core) is quite usable in every aspect - it is fast at everything except for software installation. My Sprint 9930 has OS7.1 including mobile hotspot - I often take it on the road with my iPod Touch, my Playbook, or both :)

#36 mt8thsw9th


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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:42 PM

Every one of those is a slider. I'm sorry, but there's demand for the blackberry form factor. It probably IS what has kept RIM in business. If another company wants to put RIM out of its misery, introduce this form factor in a top of the line Android. I don't want a slider. The moving parts will break, and it's thicker.


http://www.motorola....A-ADMIRAL-US-EN

#37 johnmd20


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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:59 PM

Every one of those is a slider. I'm sorry, but there's demand for the blackberry form factor. It probably IS what has kept RIM in business. If another company wants to put RIM out of its misery, introduce this form factor in a top of the line Android. I don't want a slider. The moving parts will break, and it's thicker.


The Droid 4 is thin and blazing fast and extraordinarily sturdy. It is a slide out but typing on the keyboard is like using a real keyboard. It is, by far, the best physical keyboard I've used on a phone.(used Treo's, multiple blackberries, and multiple droid's) I get that you hate the slide out but you should at least test the Droid 4. It is just an awesome phone.

#38 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:21 PM

Of course the other reason I like RIM, is that when THEY put out a new device it is available in Canada right away...

#39 CoRP

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:19 PM

And the shitshow continues.

#40 NortheasternPJ


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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:40 PM

From the notes:

a strong enterprise offering and a large and growing base of more than 77 million subscribers. I


So they have 77 million subscribers and its described as "large and growing base".

Apple sold over 93 million iPhones last year, Samsung about the same. I have to imagine that at one point there were a lot more than 77 million blackberries out there. I wouldn't call that large or growing unless they hit rock bottom somewhere and are regaining share?

#41 johnmd20


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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:11 PM

So they have 77 million subscribers and its described as "large and growing base".

Apple sold over 93 million iPhones last year, Samsung about the same. I have to imagine that at one point there were a lot more than 77 million blackberries out there. I wouldn't call that large or growing unless they hit rock bottom somewhere and are regaining share?


Where is RIMM growing? That does seem dubious. And they stopped giving guidance and the management team is bailing out. The RIMM management team confused success with skill and that was wrong. I don't know a single person who has bought a RIMM phone in the past 6 months but I know at least 30+ people who have purchased a Droid, iPhone, and even a Windows phone in the same time frame. This is US only, of course but it's pretty telling.

Plus, there is an entire generation of kids who think RIMM is a joke. There will be no turnaround, the company might muddle along because they don't have financing issues and they still do sell a lot of phones but it's a melting ice cube, slowly going away. The company's failure in software and in the App world was astoundingly bad.

Didn't ANYONE in management in the last 5 years think to buy an Iphone and take a fucking look at it to see some of the things it does well and try to copy it?

#42 Mr Weebles


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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:05 PM

Blackberry has announced they're leaving the consumer market and "RIM said it will return to its roots and focus on business customers, many of whom prefer BlackBerrys for their security."

How big is that market?

I have a BB but it's gone the next time I need a new phone. In my company, maybe one other person has one. Most everyone else has an iPhone or similar. How much longer do you guys think RIM has before they go under? Two years?

#43 johnmd20


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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:04 AM

Blackberry has announced they're leaving the consumer market and "RIM said it will return to its roots and focus on business customers, many of whom prefer BlackBerrys for their security."

How big is that market?

I have a BB but it's gone the next time I need a new phone. In my company, maybe one other person has one. Most everyone else has an iPhone or similar. How much longer do you guys think RIM has before they go under? Two years?


They realize they are dead in the consumer market. NOBODY who buys a phone today for personal use buys a Blackberry. Blackberry has come out and said they are leaving a business they aren't even in. It is solid work on their part.

RIMM feel very much like Kodak in the early part of the 00's or IBM in the early 90's. Kodak's, "We don't need to focus on digital photography yet," was a historic blunder and precipitated the company's bankruptcy. Whereas, IBM's, "We are getting out of these diverse DRAM, commodity type businesses and focusing on software and servicing the software," strategy caused the company to have one of the better runs for any huge company in the past 20 years.

RIMM's, "We don't need to focus on Apps and phone function, we have EMAIL and we PWN EMAIL!!!1111!!," strategy feels more like Kodak's than IBM's. There is nothing exciting or revolutionary about RIMM. They don't do anything particularly well anymore.(the Good Email app works on any phone and is just as secure as Blackberry AND you don't have to carry two phones) And their products suck in an unbelievably competitive industry that is doing amazing things every month.

Even PALM, at the end, was still doing some things decently well. Well enough to sucker HP into buying them. I can't see why any major phone company would buy RIMM at anything more than 7-8 dollars a share and that is just for the patents. Enterprise value of RIMM is less than zero.

#44 NortheasternPJ


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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:36 AM

So basically they're going to stop even trying to do something new and fall back to praying companies keep their BES (which many aren't) and pray companies continue to force blackberries on employees.

Good plan!

#45 jayhoz


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Posted 30 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

Oops....nevermind.

#46 mt8thsw9th


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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:39 PM

I don't claim to know anything about the stock market outside of the basics, but what's with the bounce of RIMM today? Does it have to do with many closing their shorts?

Edited by mt8thsw9th, 30 March 2012 - 12:44 PM.


#47 Rudi Fingers

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:12 PM

I don't claim to know anything about the stock market outside of the basics, but what's with the bounce of RIMM today? Does it have to do with many closing their shorts?


I have no idea, but they did increase cash by $610m in a down quarter, and shipped 500,000 PlayBooks...

#48 JRedburn

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:45 PM

I don't claim to know anything about the stock market outside of the basics, but what's with the bounce of RIMM today? Does it have to do with many closing their shorts?

I think the expectation is that all of the changes means that RIMM is on the block and will soon be sold to the highest bidder.

#49 Sprowl


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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:36 PM

I think the expectation is that all of the changes means that RIMM is on the block and will soon be sold to the highest bidder.


This is what I'm thinking. Jim Balsillie quit the board yesterday, so one of the co-founders is gone, and the new CEO's strategic review probably means that the real review has been completed and the auction is being set up. The value of the company seems to be the existing services base to enterprises (RIM security without the Blackberry), the ongoing popularity of the model in Indonesia, Argentina and other large developing markets, and some of the patents. The keyboard look and feel seem to have some value too, so some other company may be able to use the Blackberry better than RIM has.

#50 NortheasternPJ


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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:37 PM

shipped 500,000 PlayBooks...


Even if the sold 500k Playbooks that's pretty poor.




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