169 replies to this topic

[alwyn96]

Yeah, but then the Pineda's injury is costing the Yankees 12 million for Pettitte.  Maybe your point is that Arods injury is self inflicted by PED use, which is possible, but not proven.   My point was simply that when the books on 2013 are closed Arods injury may have saved them money even with the 12 million spent on Youk.

 

It might save them money by avoiding the incentives, but the ARod who meets the incentives is a very good player,and is worth paying for (to the Yankees, anyway). I think they'd rather pay to have a very good ARod at 3B than a bad ARod + extra player. The extra player and roster spot is likely more expensive and damaging to the team than an ARod who is hitting lots of HR. 

 

Insurance will cover the Steinbrenner's pocketbook, but the luxury tax issue is the more salient concern as far as Yankee team quality goes. 

[Sampo Gida]

It might save them money by avoiding the incentives, but the ARod who meets the incentives is a very good player,and is worth paying for (to the Yankees, anyway). I think they'd rather pay to have a very good ARod at 3B than a bad ARod + extra player. The extra player and roster spot is likely more expensive and damaging to the team than an ARod who is hitting lots of HR. 

 

Insurance will cover the Steinbrenner's pocketbook, but the luxury tax issue is the more salient concern as far as Yankee team quality goes. 

 

They may prefer a healthy Arod but that's not the case. I was responding to a comment about the costs of the current reality, which is an Arod on the DL for most of the year.  

 

For 2013 the luxury tax is not much of an issue.  The Yankees have paid this tax for over a decade.  Arods injury or lack of an injury would not change the fact that the Yankees would be over the threshold in 2013.  

 

In 2014 the revenue sharing rebates begin.  This is the principal reason why the Yankees want to avoid luxury tax,  Since they did not have to make any commitment to his replacement for 2014,  Arods injury will not affect their ability to get under the threshold in 2014.

[In my lifetime]

They may prefer a healthy Arod but that's not the case. I was responding to a comment about the costs of the current reality, which is an Arod on the DL for most of the year.  

 

For 2013 the luxury tax is not much of an issue.  The Yankees have paid this tax for over a decade.  Arods injury or lack of an injury would not change the fact that the Yankees would be over the threshold in 2013.  

 

In 2014 the revenue sharing rebates begin.  This is the principal reason why the Yankees want to avoid luxury tax,  Since they did not have to make any commitment to his replacement for 2014,  Arods injury will not affect their ability to get under the threshold in 2014.

 

That is a fair point, but not 100% true. His injury lowers his value to close to 0 in 2013 and adds much more doubt to his effectiveness in 2014 and beyond, thus lowering his value in those years as well.  This makes it close to impossible to pull off a Punto type of trade this year and makes it difficult (in other words more expensive) to make a trade prior to the 2014 season.  So it does take away one avenue to get under the threshold in 2014.

[cannonball 1729]

My understanding is the 6 million is added to the contract total, so it increases the AAV by only 600K as it is spread over 10 years 

 

This isn't right.  From Article XXIII Section E(4)(b) of the CBA:

 

"...the additional Base Salary triggered by the Special Covenant shall count as part of the Player’s Salary in the Contract Year(s) to which it is attributed by the Contract once the triggering event has occurred.  Multi-Year Contracts shall not be recalculated on an Average Annual Value basis once the triggering event has occurred; the additional Base Salary shall be added to the Salary as originally calculated for the Contract Year in question."

[armyguy25]

 
This isn't right.  From Article XXIII Section E(4)(b) of the CBA:
 
"...the additional Base Salary triggered by the Special Covenant shall count as part of the Players Salary in the Contract Year(s) to which it is attributed by the Contract once the triggering event has occurred.  Multi-Year Contracts shall not be recalculated on an Average Annual Value basis once the triggering event has occurred; the additional Base Salary shall be added to the Salary as originally calculated for the Contract Year in question."

So to that end it makes things really interesting for this season. As I said before, if he doesnt get the 13 he needs for the next target number, the Yanks will need to either leave a $6 million buffer in the payroll, or be prepared to sit him once he gets within a HR or two of it. And considering he'll have a half season at best and coming off serious surgery, Im not too confident that he can hit what he needs to in 2013.

[Sampo Gida]

This isn't right.  From Article XXIII Section E(4)(b) of the CBA:

 

"...the additional Base Salary triggered by the Special Covenant shall count as part of the Player’s Salary in the Contract Year(s) to which it is attributed by the Contract once the triggering event has occurred.  Multi-Year Contracts shall not be recalculated on an Average Annual Value basis once the triggering event has occurred; the additional Base Salary shall be added to the Salary as originally calculated for the Contract Year in question."

 

That section is not applicable.  It refers to deals like Beltres 2009-2010 deal where he had a player option for 5 million in 2010 that increased to 10 million if he triggered it by a certain number of PA in 2009.

 

However, reading the relevant section of the CBA again, you may be right anyways on the performance bonuses.

 

If so, I wonder if the Yankees might be better off redoing Arods contract and giving him an extra year in lieu of the bonuses.  MLBPA should not have a problem with this

as it increases his guaranteed dollars

[cannonball 1729]

That section is not applicable.  It refers to deals like Beltres 2009-2010 deal where he had a player option for 5 million in 2010 that increased to 10 million if he triggered it by a certain number of PA in 2009.

 

No, that would be covered under the section entitled "Option Contracts," which is Article XXIII Section (E)(5) (or, more specifically, Article XXIII Section (E)(5)(b)(i)(C)).

Edited by cannonball 1729, 11 February 2013 - 03:07 AM.

[Sampo Gida]

No, that would be covered under the section entitled "Option Contracts," which is Article XXIII Section (E)(5) (or, more specifically, Article XXIII Section (E)(5)(b)(i)©).

 

Ok, then it refers to a hypothetical 2 year deal for 5 million each year with the 2nd year increasing to 10 million if a certain number of PA are reached in the 1st year.

[In my lifetime]

A great explanation re: the new CBA and how the amount of rebates have changed: especially as it relates to the Yankees

 

http://sports.yahoo....l-235433974.htm

 

Here is the pertinent part from the article re: CBA:

 

"The Yankees expected to receive money not just from a decreased luxury tax rate
but a complicated clause in the collective-bargaining agreement called the
market-disqualification rebate.
 

MLB's revenue-sharing program works like this: The league taxes every team at
34 percent on its local revenue, pools the money and distributes it evenly.
Beyond that, as a means to funnel more money to lower-revenue and smaller-market
teams, it uses a variable tax rate that forces teams with big revenue streams in
big markets to pay more on top of the 34 percent.

 

The flaw in the system is that some teams in the top half of market size are
not in the top half of revenue, meaning big-market teams are getting
revenue-sharing dollars like small markets. In recent years, these teams have
included Washington, Atlanta and Toronto. Starting this season, such teams were
mandated to give a portion of that money back to the bigger-market teams – 25
percent in 2013, 50 percent in 2014, 75 percent in 2015 and 100 percent in 2016.
The catch: Teams needed to be under the luxury tax threshold to qualify.
 

Considering the money would be distributed proportionally to contributions,
the Yankees expected their rebate to be significant – upward of $45 million
between 2014-16 if they kept their payroll below $189 million for those seasons,
according to two sources."

 

The article goes on to explain that Washington and probably Atlanta, Toronto will end up not being payors into the rebate lowering the pool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jon abbey]

Pretty interesting tidbit here from Heyman:

 

==================================

 

A much more likely satisfactory resolution for the Yankees would be Rodriguez retiring, and the sooner the better. The Yankees may not get a gold star for the contract (though he did play a crucial role in the 2009 World Series championship), but they get all the credit for taking out one fantastic insurance policy.

 

According to sources, the Yankees' policy goes pretty much like this. If A-Rod retires, there is a four-month deductible, then the club can recover about 80 percent of the remaining money. So there's no chance to recover a penny until about Aug. 1 but plenty of loot to be saved thereafter.

 

Of course the Yankees aren't going to say they are rooting for retirement. But understand where things stand. A-Rod is an about-to-be 38-year-old who looked like he couldn't play at the end of last season who's trying to recover from a second hip reconstruction with an MLB drug investigation hanging over his head who's going to have to do this comeback thing clean (presumably). Good luck with that.

 

Another possibility for Rodriguez is that he gives it a shot this year, quickly decides he can't do it anymore and retires, the Yankees recover maybe a couple to a few million bucks this year, then they recover an additional $68.8 million for the subsequent four years (80 percent of the $86 million remaining from 2014 through 2017).

 

http://www.cbssports...for-arod-or-not

[SaveBooFerriss]

Pretty interesting tidbit here from Heyman:

 

==================================

 

A much more likely satisfactory resolution for the Yankees would be Rodriguez retiring, and the sooner the better. The Yankees may not get a gold star for the contract (though he did play a crucial role in the 2009 World Series championship), but they get all the credit for taking out one fantastic insurance policy.

 

According to sources, the Yankees' policy goes pretty much like this. If A-Rod retires, there is a four-month deductible, then the club can recover about 80 percent of the remaining money. So there's no chance to recover a penny until about Aug. 1 but plenty of loot to be saved thereafter.

 

Of course the Yankees aren't going to say they are rooting for retirement. But understand where things stand. A-Rod is an about-to-be 38-year-old who looked like he couldn't play at the end of last season who's trying to recover from a second hip reconstruction with an MLB drug investigation hanging over his head who's going to have to do this comeback thing clean (presumably). Good luck with that.

 

Another possibility for Rodriguez is that he gives it a shot this year, quickly decides he can't do it anymore and retires, the Yankees recover maybe a couple to a few million bucks this year, then they recover an additional $68.8 million for the subsequent four years (80 percent of the $86 million remaining from 2014 through 2017).

 

http://www.cbssports...for-arod-or-not

 

Maybe I am missing something, but if Arod simply retires aren't the Yankees off the hook for everything due to him (except for any deferred money)?  It seems like the insurance only comes into play, if he is determined medically unable to continue to play (like Albert (Joey) Belle).  

[StuckOnYouk]

the only negotiation involved I see is that A-Rod gives NY a green light to trade him the hell out of there. Unless he really can't move at all, I can't believe he'd really retire. I'd think he'd like to finish his career with at least a year or two of peace and quiet with some other team while collecting his 20 mil plus a year...17 mil of it from NY and 3mil from whatever team would take him.

[RedOctober3829]

If anything, they'll work out a buyout and get rid of him. They can't trade him because who would want him at this stage? I can't see him retiring either. He's too much of an ego maniac to not go out the way he wants.

[Average Reds]

Maybe I am missing something, but if Arod simply retires aren't the Yankees off the hook for everything due to him (except for any deferred money)?  It seems like the insurance only comes into play, if he is determined medically unable to continue to play (like Albert (Joey) Belle).  

 

It's not well articulated in Heyman's article, but the clear implication is that A-Rod's retirement would be driven by the fact that he is medically unable to play because of recent injuries, which means that his contract would be guaranteed and the insurance would kick in.

 

If this is the way the Yankees are thinking, things could be very interesting between A-Rod and the team.  Because it means that the Yankees have a vested interest in declaring that A-Rod is physically incapable of playing due to injury. And if A-Rod doesn't agree, the animosity between the team and A-Rod will go through the roof.

 

Good times.

[bankshot1]

 they'll work out a buyout and get rid of him.

 

I got to believe any dimunition of the ARod's contract would be strenuously contested by the MLB Players Assoc. They wouldn't let him give the Sox a $12MM haircut to then $180MM he was under contract to the Rangers. The precedent set for a restructuring of this size would be fought tooth and nail.

Edited by bankshot1, 05 June 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[Sox and Rocks]

Insurance companies are smart, too, and don't just grant any and all claims.  In fact, I saw an article recently about MLB insurance policies and how very few claims have actually been paid out and, because of this, many teams have stopped taking insurance on players (like the Sox).

 

Even if A-Rod retired on his own (highly unlikely), there is no guarantee the Yanks will recover the insurance.  In fact, the insurance company may argue that they were insuring against on the field injuries, not steroid-created ones.  I'm sure the policy was well-written and includes language addressing off the field injuries and personal liability. 

[Sox and Rocks]

Any potential buyout would probably have to be, at minimum, 85-90% of the remaining value of the contract.  This is really the only legitimate avenue for the Yankees and, despite the enormous cost, might actually be worth it. 

[uncannymanny]

Insurance companies are smart, too, and don't just grant any and all claims. In fact, I saw an article recently about MLB insurance policies and how very few claims have actually been paid out and, because of this, many teams have stopped taking insurance on players (like the Sox).

Even if A-Rod retired on his own (highly unlikely), there is no guarantee the Yanks will recover the insurance. In fact, the insurance company may argue that they were insuring against on the field injuries, not steroid-created ones. I'm sure the policy was well-written and includes language addressing off the field injuries and personal liability.

Yeah he'll pretty much have to be in a wheelchair for the insurance company to pay out $68 million. If he is physically capable, by the insurance company's physician's determination, of standing at the plate as a DH they aren't paying out.

Edited by uncannymanny, 05 June 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[Rovin Romine]

I hate to give comfort to the enemy, but what happens to the contract if A-rod picks up a lifetime ban? 

 

Perhaps Yanks fans should be rooting for him to go down on this, then for him to try to needle his way back into relevancy. 

[Carlos Cowart]

You do steroids in the hope of securing a $275 million contract. You do not do steroids if getting caught means voiding one. No one - not even someone who fucked Madonna - is that stupid.